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View Full Version : are Lyndex R8 collets worth 2.5x the price of Enco R8 collets?



jrude
10-18-2011, 03:29 PM
Lyndex: $179.95
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=4840139&PMAKA=240-2880

Enco: $73.98
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=2603580&PMAKA=231-4611

Have been procrastinating / busy. I need to order some collets today to cut chips this weekend.

I understand both are most likely made in China.

kenrinc
10-18-2011, 03:38 PM
The Enco R8 collets that I bought didn't even fit my machine so I'd gladly take the Lyndex assuming they fit!!

$.02

Ken-

dfw5914
10-18-2011, 03:44 PM
Seems like everything is "sourced" anymore, so it's probably going to be a crapshoot regardless.
I bought an Enco set and they are plenty good enough. I'd recomend buying a complete set of cheapies for the short term and then upgrade the sizes that you need the extra precision in.

dalee100
10-18-2011, 03:44 PM
Hi,

Yes they are. Particularly in heavy commercial use. They not only will last longer, but should have better runout than a cheaper Enco set.

If you are only going to use them in a HSM with light to moderate usage, then the Enco imports maybe a more cost effective choice. So your wallet, your choice.

dalee

jrude
10-18-2011, 03:57 PM
Thanks everyone.

I've been searching for some used "new" collets on ebay for a couple weeks now, and I've given up. I just ordered the Lyndex units because I'm tired of thinking bout it and I suspect they will be better than the Encos. I'd prefer to only buy them once.

I also used the PTL99 promo code and got 20% off but no free shipping.

Now all I have to do is explain to my wife how I can't possibly live without them.

Mike Hunter
10-18-2011, 04:24 PM
I used Chineese no name brand in my shop for years, then I finally switched to Crawfords, I like them.

I picked up a few Lyndex R8 and 5C collets, truthfully I cannot tell them apart from the cheap imports...

At least Crawford still puts their name on them.

philbur
10-18-2011, 05:18 PM
Have a read of this thread:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/lyndex-collets-runout-220594/

Phil:)

JoeLee
10-18-2011, 05:27 PM
All my R8's and 5C's are Lyndex. I really don't have any complaints against them. But I'm inclined to believe they are out sourced as Lyndex does not put there name on them, only on the box.

JL..................

gwilson
10-18-2011, 05:29 PM
My journeyman broke a #3MT to R8 adapter. It looked like it was made of cast iron.

I could be wrong,but I swear,the Asians seem to cast anything they possibly can. I would not be surprised if they cast collets too.

However,I have had only 1 R8 collet that did not run true from Asian sources,and I must have bought at least 4 sets of them for work and for home shop. I had a set at every vertical mill.

Ohio Mike
10-18-2011, 07:52 PM
Enco's are surely from China and the Lyndex should be from Japan. I don't have any R8s to compare but I can say without a doubt that my Lyndex R8 collets are a world better than my Chinese 5c collets. So much so I longing to replace them... You won't be disappointed.

gwilson
10-18-2011, 08:15 PM
I could be wrong,but some time ago,possibly on the PM site,there was a discussion about some disappointment with Lyndex collets. Repeat,I could be remembering it wrong.

platypus2020
10-18-2011, 08:27 PM
The last Lyndex collet I bought came in a box with a stamped imprint saying Made in Japan, but that was partially covered over with a sticker that said Make in Korea.



jack

gwilson
10-18-2011, 08:31 PM
I went back and checked Lyndex collets in the PM site. There is concern about their collets NOT being marked as to origin. Only the box is marked. Most guys say they don't compare to Hardinge. One said if you accidentally close one of them without metal in the jaws,the collet can split. Happened to a Lyndex collet.

jrude
10-19-2011, 12:01 PM
Have a read of this thread:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/lyndex-collets-runout-220594/

Phil:)


I actually did read that thread last week. I found it from a Google search. I signed up at PM the same day I signed up here and I still haven't gotten an email to validate my account. I even private messaged the administrator, but still haven't received an email. I haven't been going there much for that reason. Whatever.

My take aways from that thread were: 1) that the original poster did not like the Lyndex run-out, but later he confirmed that the pin gauges he was using to measure run-out were significantly impacting the measurement and 2) some people liked Lyndex and some people didn't. :)

I called Enco to ask a question on shank sizes of their 20 piece HSS double end mill sets and asked about the Lyndex collets at the same time. They said Lyndex was made in Japan on the phone, even though I've seen others on the web say they looked like they were made in China. My general take away from all my research was that Lyndex was not as good as Hardinge, or Royal, or *iinsert expensive brand name here*, but they were better than the $39 ebay specials and better than the $79 Encos.

As a side note, many Japanese characters are the same as Chinese characters. My wife who is Chinese, and she reads and speaks fluent Mandarin, can often decipher simple Japanese written phrases even though the spoken language is completely different. Take that for what it's worth (probably not much). Maybe this has led to some of the "made in China" assumptions.

Rustybolt
10-19-2011, 12:31 PM
Sometimes it's better to buy used Hardinge or Royal than new Chinese.

RWO
10-19-2011, 02:23 PM
I got a couple of bad Lyndex back when they were made in Japan. Too much run-out, so I replaced them with Royal and have never looked back.

RWO

jrude
10-19-2011, 03:24 PM
I spent a week looking around for good used collets. The problem was there is no guarantee the are good, the only guarantee is that they are used.

If the Lyndex's don't work out I can always return them. That was my primary reasoning for the purchase.

ckelloug
10-19-2011, 04:39 PM
I've bought one lyndex collet and I was quite pleased with it. The box was definitely marked made in Japan and it was about two years ago. It was markedly better than the questionably sourced R8 collets I got from the previous owner of my Bridgeport mill. I haven't seen any of the more expensive types personally.

--Cameron

gwilson
10-19-2011, 06:26 PM
Yes,THE BOX is marked,but not the collets. If they will split open if you accidentally close one empty,I'd find a better collet.

RussZHC
10-19-2011, 07:31 PM
OK, I suppose I will get flamed for saying this, and not defending Lyndex (I have never used their products, don't own a mill w R8 so...) but from the thread on PM:


Occasionally an operator will accidentally close the collet with nothing it it. With the power closers this sucks the collet back in making it under size. With a Hardinge collet we use a screw driver pounded in the slots to open the collet back up. Do that with a Lyndex collet and it splits down the side destroying the collet.

I am a noob but not sure if one can complain about the quality of a collet if you pound on it to open it back up.
Should it have closed w no stock and using a power closer? Don't know, have no way of knowing. Do you open it back up? Don't know, obviously the poster w Hardinge feels OK in doing it with that method.

My point being the thread does not state the collet split in use and splitting during proper use and what is described, to me, are very different. This goes to the quality of merchandise; some would debate imported tooling has improved in quality...and that is not the point either, its spreading false information that certainly does not help those of us trying to learn, including potential purchases to avoid.
End rant.

Ohio Mike
10-19-2011, 07:36 PM
My take aways from that thread were: 1) that the original poster did not like the Lyndex run-out, but later he confirmed that the pin gauges he was using to measure run-out were significantly impacting the measurement and 2) some people liked Lyndex and some people didn't. :)
I got the same thing from that thread. There seems to be a lot of mud slinging regarding Lyndex for some reason. I don't have a problem with someone that has experience with the product but 90+% of the bad talk starts with "I know this guy whose cousin once had some..." :rolleyes:

My general take away from all my research was that Lyndex was not as good as Hardinge, or Royal, or *iinsert expensive brand name here*, but they were better than the $39 ebay specials and better than the $79 Encos.
No argument here on that point :)

PaulT
10-19-2011, 08:43 PM
I was one of the posters on that original thread.

My experience was with Lyndex 5C collets. The ones I received had more runnout than they should (0.0015" to 0.002") and also a couple of them had threads out of spec, they wouldn't thread into my Royal collet closer, all my other collets including my Hardinge ones would.

Looking around I found some other users that had problems with Lyndex 5C collets so I sent mine back and tried a full set of the Enco cheapo ones.

Surprisingly, at that time (which was around 5 years ago) the Enco cheapo ones were actually better on run out than the Lyndex ones, except for a few that had dinged up threads that they replaced with no hassle. The cheapo ones have served me well since then.

But this import tooling is always a moving target, who knows what the import Enco collets are like now and if I have a project that needs a really top notch collet I use a Hardinge one.

Since then I ordered some R8 collets from McMaster-Carr, as they typically don't sell anything that's not at least half decent. But I was concerned on opening them and seeing they were Lyndex brand.

But they were ok, so either the Lyndex R8 collets are better than their 5C ones or maybe they got their act together on their collets over all.

Paul T.
www.power-t.com

lakeside53
10-19-2011, 08:53 PM
I have a set of Lyndex R8 collets - and I'm very happy with them.

I also own "generic" Enco 5C - they work, but.... the threads are very rough, run out is "average", and the collets are definitely softer than my Hardinge; they were inexpensive though...

Ohio Mike
10-19-2011, 09:09 PM
I was one of the posters on that original thread.

My experience was with Lyndex 5C collets. The ones I received had more runnout than they should (0.0015" to 0.002") and also a couple of them had threads out of spec, they wouldn't thread into my Royal collet closer, all my other collets including my Hardinge ones would.

Looking around I found some other users that had problems with Lyndex 5C collets so I sent mine back and tried a full set of the Enco cheapo ones.

Surprisingly, at that time (which was around 5 years ago) the Enco cheapo ones were actually better on run out than the Lyndex ones, except for a few that had dinged up threads that they replaced with no hassle. The cheapo ones have served me well since then.

But this import tooling is always a moving target, who knows what the import Enco collets are like now and if I have a project that needs a really top notch collet I use a Hardinge one.

Since then I ordered some R8 collets from McMaster-Carr, as they typically don't sell anything that's not at least half decent. But I was concerned on opening them and seeing they were Lyndex brand.

But they were ok, so either the Lyndex R8 collets are better than their 5C ones or maybe they got their act together on their collets over all.

Paul T.
www.power-t.com

Thank you for following up. I'm basing my comparison on my experience with the Lyndex R8 collets and import 5c collets. Maybe I need to order a Lyndex 5c collet or two to compare.

Ron of Va
10-20-2011, 06:51 AM
If I made my living with machine tools I might be tempted to buy the expensive 5C collets. But I am a home hobbyist, so I figured that import was good enough.

I bought the Enco brand 5C collets. The 65 piece set was on sale for about half price, $229, so I bought the complete set. I love them, and do not regret buying them. I use them mainly with the 5C collet block set in my mill to hold round stock.

Since then, I have watched (for a friend) for the complete Enco set to go on sale again, but they havenít. I found that CDCO tools, has the complete 65 piece set for $198. I suspect that the Chinese manufacturer used the same factory to make Enco set as the CDCO set. So for the home hobbyist that would be what I would recommend. Buy the 65 piece set and get it over with.

SGW
10-20-2011, 07:29 AM
IMO it's worth the money to buy top-quality collets. I've bought selectively instead of buying a complete set by 64ths, so my total cost for the Hardinge collets I have is probably less than I would have paid for a complete set of cheap import collets. And the Hardinge collets are supremely accurate. I've got for 6K lathe collets:

1/16, 3/32, 1/8, 5/32, 3/16, 7/32, 1/4, 5/16, 3/8, 7/16, 1/2, 9/16, and 5/8, which is the maximum size for 6K. If I had 5C I would add 3/4, 7/8, 1.

In over 30 years I have seldom, if ever, felt the need for anything else. If I ever did decide I needed, say, a 23/64 collet I could buy it, but the odds of ever needing a 23/64 collet seem vanishingly small to me. I suppose if I had all the odd 64ths and odd 32nds I might find uses for them, but I've managed perfectly well without them.

I did the same with R8 collets: bought selectively. 1/8, 3/16, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4. Those will hold any endmill I've ever seen.

Your mileage may vary....

jrude
10-20-2011, 09:46 AM
My decision to buy lower end collets was primarily driven by the fact that I'm a hobbyist, not a pro machinist. I do want quality and accuracy, but frankly, if I screw something up, I'm not going to eat the cost in the same way a pay for hire machine shop would. For the parts I make for myself, I've already eaten the cost, and fixing one part that I screw up is acceptable to me. When a shop eats the cost of the first, and then also the second which replaces the first, the calculation of ultra quality tooling can be justified.

The 13 piece Hardinge collet set was nearly 30% of the cost of my entire Bridgeport hobby milling setup. To me that seemed like a really high ratio for the type of work I'll be doing. Also, given my "approved budget", buying the lower end collets allows me to find a .0001" or .0005" accuracy test dial indicator on ebay, which I suspect will need, since my current dial indicators are only .001" units (that's all I ever needed previously for valve timing engine assemblies).


I did the same with R8 collets: bought selectively. 1/8, 3/16, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4. Those will hold any endmill I've ever seen.


That's interesting feedback. I flopped back and forth between buying the 6 piece collet set or the 13 piece collet set for literally two days, based on advice I received here which was similar to your observation. Finally I just chose the 13 piece set as a "just in case" measure since it was only $70 more than the 6 piece set. I figure an extra seven collets for $10 each was a better choice than buying three at $20 each in the future. I even called Enco to ask what shank diameters were on the milling cutters, but they couldn't really give me an answer. They rambled off some various 1/8" diameter increments and said they couldn't specify which ones exactly. I guess I'll soon find out if I made a good decision or not. :)

Mike Hunter
10-20-2011, 10:21 AM
I fully agree with SGW, buy the best collets that you can, they really are cheap for what they do, and will last a lifetime if you take care of them.

I have a variety of collets here in the shop; I inherited a set of Harndige when I bought a used 1951 Sheldon lathe, Iím assuming the collets were part of the accessory kit when the lathe was new. If so, those 60 year old collets still work like new, and, I cannot complain about the accuracy.

I used the cheap Chinese R8 collets on both my Bridgeports for several years, then a buddy of mine bought his first mill, thought it would be a good time to upgrade my collets, donated the Chinese collets to my buddy and I picked up a couple of sets of Crawford collets. I like them.

About a year ago I decided to retire the Harndige 5 C collets, donít know why, probably out of nostalgia I guess Decided to try Bison brand, so far, not overly impressed. And Iím not convinced that they are true Bison, the place I bought them from sells both Bison, and the cheaper brands, the collets are not marked and neither is the box.

I use 5 C collets quite often, mostly Ĺ inchers for grinding special cutters etc. I decided to pick up a couple of extra Ĺ inch 5 C collets, bout a couple of Lyndex brand during one of Encoís sales. Not impressed, to say the least. I can throw them in a box of Chinese collets and you would not be able to tell the difference.

So if I were to rank order collets the collets I have in the shop:

1. Harndige
2. Crawford
3. Bison (if they are true Bison), Lyndex, Genaric Chinese.

This is based not only on accuracy (runout) alone, but also how well the internal/external threads are machined. I really hate crappy threads on collets, they should be nice and smooth, drawbars & nuts should thread on like butter.

They should also be well machined and well finished, no burrs etc.

V/R

Mike

clutch
10-25-2011, 06:18 PM
I have lyndex in both R8 and 5C, been using them for a few years. Never a problem. I can't tell you how they behave if they are abused since I don't abuse my tools.

Clutch