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View Full Version : What might this oxy/acetylene set be worth?



woodnerd
10-18-2011, 10:53 PM
This is my dad's old oxy/acetylene torch setup. O/A makes me nervous, I'd like to just sell it vs learning to use it, but I have no clue what value it might have. Any suggestions on a price?

http://www.zx45cnc.com/forumImages/_DSC8079.jpg

flylo
10-19-2011, 12:47 AM
Not sure where your located but I bought 3 sets about a week apart for $100/set with full tanks. I realize this was some great deals but here oxy/ace doesn't bring much. I'd start at $300 & go from there. Just my opinion.

EddyCurr
10-19-2011, 03:04 AM
... O/A makes me nervous, I'd like to just sell it vs learning to use it, ...There are safety considerations regarding O/A that make this a legitimate
position.

FWIW. Last year in the following thread, I and others offered arguements
in favour of keeping an oxy/acetylene setup.


The Value of old welding/cutting tools? (http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=42953) 2010.08.10
As it happens, I am currently enrolled in an evening course hosted by
the same organization that provides the training for provincial apprenticeship
programs. While I have past rudimentary exposure to and experience with
O/A, it has been a while. I wanted a refresher and a chance to discuss
handling O/A in an HSM-type environment. (I also had hopes that gas
welding of aluminum would be included in the curriculum, but this turns out
not to be the case.) The course has been a rewarding way to spend some
autumn evenings.

.

Jim Caudill
10-19-2011, 10:05 AM
The bottles are worth $200 to $250 around here. Neat cart, but won't bring any $. Torch set depends on brand-name, model #, and # of tips. I'd start at $350 for the rig and be prepared to come down.

I'd be willing to buy the bottles if they were within an hour's drive. Exact price would be based on the contents ($200 empty, $250 with some decent amount of gas). You might actually get more money splitting it up, just depends on the buyer.

T.Hoffman
10-19-2011, 10:39 AM
If the bottles are within their date range, there can be value in them. If not, they have to be recertified (at owner's expense).

If the bottles are full (or fairly full), that can be some value too.

I think the $300-350 ballpark is a good starting point...

Just last year I bought the portable version from Tractor Supply which sells for around $300 (bottles, regulators, welding and cutting head included). I don't use a torch real often, space is at a premium, and I wanted to be able to take this anywhere:

http://www.tooldepot247.com/prodimages/0990-lg.jpg

Gas Pony sells a prepackaged kit similar to what you're selling that includes everything (except filling the bottles) for around $750.

woodnerd
10-19-2011, 11:17 AM
It took some searching, but I finally found the word "Firepower" on the torch, which matches the gauges so I guess that's the brand. Don't know if that's good or bad.

I don't know what I'm looking for in terms of a date on the tanks, here's what's stamped into the oxygen tank:

http://www.zx45cnc.com/forumImages/_DSC8086.jpg

http://www.zx45cnc.com/forumImages/_DSC8087.jpg

http://www.zx45cnc.com/forumImages/_DSC8088.jpg

woodnerd
10-19-2011, 11:17 AM
and the acetylene (only four images per post allowed)

http://www.zx45cnc.com/forumImages/_DSC8090.jpg

http://www.zx45cnc.com/forumImages/_DSC8091.jpg

Gazz
10-19-2011, 11:27 AM
I wouldn't worry about the dates on the bottles if you are selling the set up. Most of the welding supply places will just take your bottle and give you a different filled one and the empty you brought gets recycled/refilled and inspected if needed. Somebody gave me an aluminum bottle that had been marked O2 and when I took it in for a refill, they commented on how it was formally a CO2 bottle. No big deal though, they just gave me a full O2 bottle (60lb).
So what is making you nervous about having that setup around anyway? In all of my adult life I have never heard of a real accident with one of these.

JCHannum
10-19-2011, 11:36 AM
Old tanks are worthless if the date has expired. Get some steel stamps and put a new Date on them yourself no one will know different then you can get them filled. Tanks are expensive. I have seen used tanks on craigslist and people are asking new prices.

Real good advice there Gary. Not only is it fraud, you are creating a potential bomb if the wrong style stamps are used.

Memo to self and all. Avoid this guy like the plague.

woodnerd
10-19-2011, 11:45 AM
So what is making you nervous about having that setup around anyway?

There seem to be a lot of ways to easily kill/maim yourself with O/A. Open the regulator wrong, get the mixture wrong, accidentally point the unlit gas flow towards an oily spot, etc, etc, etc ...

Scottike
10-19-2011, 12:10 PM
O/A is like any other tool, a little knowledge goes a long ways towards safe operation. I think your safety concerns are a little over stated, but if your not comfortable with it, that's ok too.
Around here, used O/A rigs w/o bottles go for $150 - $250 bucks depending on condition, extra tips, brand, etc.
Like most stuff, prices vary with locale. Your best bet would be to check your local CL listings and pawn shops to get an idea of prices in your area.

RussZHC
10-19-2011, 12:11 PM
Sort of have to go with Gazz on this one...reasonable amount of care springs to mind...while there is always a chance, only accidents I have heard of locally, even remotely related, have involved vapours, cutting into tanks or being inside of larger vessels used for ? in a previous life and then attempting to cut open (and even those are split about 50/50 between O/A cutting and using a "grinding" wheel w sparks...) and, having been in a fair number of situations, work, farms etc. where O/A has been used, nightmares for conditions compared to what I suspect most of us use for shops

OnT: prices given are about the same here too, exchange of tanks the norm (have never had any issues with dates and I have asked about certs etc.), though I must say, larger tanks seem to go for about what smaller ones do...

atty
10-19-2011, 12:18 PM
I think you're OK on the Oxygen dates, assuming a 10 year hydrostat. If my foggy memory serves me correctly, the star to the right indicates 10 years from 9/02, so you're in the window. Not so, however, on the Acetyl. bottle, but as Gazz says, most gas places will do a swap for filled bottles for the price of the gas without a problem.

You might want to check with your local supplier as to the cost of a swap. Selling on O/A set that has freshly filled bottles with tanks in hydrostat date gives you a serious leg up as a Seller. You have taken the hassle and uncertainty of "Can I get these tanks filled?" off of the table. Your buyer knows he can take the set and go.

Rosco-P
10-19-2011, 02:34 PM
Single or two stage regulators? Do you have any paperwork proving ownership of the tank. Could be a crap-shoot, the local gas supply may: refill the old tanks; exchange the tanks for newer, confiscate them. Some guys value old regulators at near zero because they really should be tested by a welding supply before being put back into service. Same for the valves in the torch body and cutting attachment.

The flip side is that if the price is right, some people don't care about age or condition.

Net search reveals: http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/plumbing/welding/welding-outfit-kits/fp250-300fc-boxed-outfit?utm_source=pricegr&utm_medium=shp&utm_campaign=Welding-Kits-pricegr&infoParam.campaignId=WU
Torch and regs made by Victor, probably single stage regulators. Considering the new price and the reality that the homemade cart is worth $0.00, I'd say $200 with the bottles would be a fair price.

rmwise
10-19-2011, 03:10 PM
Rosco and others nailed it on the cylinders- in eastern MO at least, O/A cylinders are leased by the bigger suppliers. Some smaller outfits may swap out owned cylinders, but they usually will not touch one that has someone elses tag or stamp. Some even had the name cast/forged into the collar. If that's the case you need to contact the supplier or risk selling something that's not yours to sell.

Gary's advice borders on criminal and is without doubt asinine. No wonder he has such fits with Fleabay feedback.

EddyCurr
10-19-2011, 03:13 PM
If you decide to transport the cylinders, read up about the safe method
for handling oxygen & acetylene bottles, as well as your responsibilities.

Googling 'transporting acetylene and oxygen' brings up several examples
including, but not limited to:


The safe transport, use and storage of Acetylene cylinders (http://www.eiga.org/index.php?id=176&tx_abdownloads_pi1%5Baction%5D=getviewclickeddownl oad&tx_abdownloads_pi1%5Buid%5D=1590&no_cache=1)

Acetylene Best Practices (http://www.blueshield.ca/en/docs/pdf/marketingInfo/brochures/AcetyleneBestPractices_Large_E.pdf)

Storage and Handling of Compressed Gas Cylinders (http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/safety_haz/welding/storage.html)

Oxygen-fuel gas welding and cutting. (http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9854)

Oxy-Acetylene Welding (http://www.stanford.edu/group/prl/documents/html/OAweld.htm)



If an acetylene bottle is laid on its side, before it is used again it must stand
in an upright position for a period of time. There are rules-of-thumb that
associate this time with the time the bottle was on its side but allowing 24
hrs out of an abundance of caution is what I work to.

Also, if there is an intention to use the O/A, read the recommendations
about only opening the main valve on the acetylene bottle 1/2 turn. This
all that is required and is done so the main valve can be quickly closed.
Unlike oxygen, acetylene is bottled at relatively low pressure and it is
not necessary to thread the valve fully out to engage the valve packing
to prevent leakage.

When opening the valve on the acetylene regulator, never exceed an
indicated 15 psi shown on the gauge. (Consider staying below this value
due to possible gauge error.) If pressure exceeds 15 PSIG, acetylene may
decompose spontaneously and self-combust in the lines in the absence
of oxygen.

Something that is not present on your father's O/A set is a pair of Flashback
arrestors.

Incidently, regarding the cart. Something new to me is that recommendations
for cylinder cart design have changed for improved safety. In addition to
methods for supporting and securing cylinders, it is now desireable to have
a divider between the bottles on the cart to isolate oxygen from fuel-gas
(like acetylene or other) in the event of a fire.


Firewall Protection (http://www.weldingandgasestoday.org/index.php/2008/03/oxygen-acetylene-storage-vs-use/)
By Frank S. Salvucci, Jr.
GAWDA 2008.03.15

A triple steel baffle partition performs this function. The purpose of the
partition is to restrict a flame generated by the acetylene or other
welding-grade fuel-gas cylinder from heating the adjacent oxygen cylinder
contents to such an extent that it causes expansion of the oxygen cylinder
contents, which increases the PSI level higher than the DOT-prescribed safe
pressure level. Should the oxygen cylinder contents be expanded beyond the
DOT safe level, the expanded contents could activate the safety control
burst disc, which would then allow oxygen to be added to the fuel-gas
cylinder generated flame, causing a more intense or expanded flame.

Research Firewall Cylinder Carts for examples and information.

.

Alistair Hosie
10-19-2011, 03:29 PM
Yes dangerous and very bad advice. I am forced to agree with JIM this is foolhardy .Alistair

adatesman
10-19-2011, 03:43 PM
Old tanks are worthless if the date has expired. Get some steel stamps and put a new Date on them yourself no one will know different then you can get them filled.


Yes dangerous and very bad advice.

Not to mention fraud and illegal. In case people haven't noticed it there's a Report Post button for occasions like this.... It's the little red triangle one at the upper right corner of each post.

Rosco-P
10-19-2011, 03:48 PM
The simplest position as a seller of the gear is, I'm selling you the cart, hoses (of dubious value), regulators, torch body and cutting attachment. The tanks, I'm throwing in for free. I don't know if or where you can get them re-filled. The price is for the torch equipment, the tanks are a free bonus.

Jim Caudill
10-19-2011, 05:27 PM
Much of the tanks issues has been discussed before. It seems to be something of a regional thing: around here, you cannot lease the smaller cylinders - they must be purchased. Conversely, you cannot buy large cylinders - they must be leased. Usually, they will just swap your cylinders for what they have. They do not check for hydrostatic test dates or much of anything unless it is missing the protective valve cap.

Oxygen cylinders are high pressure and require the hydro test, acetylene tanks are low pressure and are never hydro tested (as far as I know). They may view old acetylene cylinders with asbestos inside as "obsolete" or something like that.

TriHonu
10-19-2011, 05:38 PM
I purchased 5 privately owned tanks this summer and took three in for hydro-testing.

Two of the three were failed for external corrosion and had much less pitting than the OP's oxygen tank.

The testing company did a visual on the tanks and totally sandblasted two of them to bare metal to measure the depth of the pits. Two were failed based on corrosion, not on whether they would currently hold pressure.

Hydro Tests are good for 5 years unless the date is followed by a Star. Airgas Cylinder Markings (http://www.airgas.com/content/details.aspx?id=7000000000243)

Evan
10-19-2011, 06:09 PM
It isn't possible to hydrotest an acetylene tank as they are filled with a porous material that resembles low density concrete and is saturated in acetone. A hydrotest would destroy the filler.

Bottles that size are very commonly sold instead of leased many places as they are just slightly above what are called "plumber's bottles" or "B" bottles. If it doesn't say "Property of XYZ Gas Inc" on the bottle then they are likely owned.

The hazards attributed to both gases are real but often exaggerated. Directing a flow of pure oxygen at an oily patch will result in nothing untoward happening. If the oily patch is already on fire then that is a different story. Exceeding the critical pressure of acetylene is also a potential hazard but the equipment is designed to prevent that from happening. Acetylene doesn't pool on the ground like propane because acetylene is slightly lighter than air. It also isn't toxic although it is a mild anesthetic.

What it is worth depends on the local market entirely as well as the factors mentioned previously. Around here $300 would be a very good deal if the bottles and the torch are in good shape. If you turned in those bottles to my wife you would pay a one time oxygen hydrotest fee before exchange plus fill charge. Further exchanges would cost fill only.

sasquatch
10-19-2011, 08:52 PM
Couple of months ago i purchased a mint set of torches and "B" bottles and the cart , with the tips.
I paid $200.00 for the deal, With 25feet of excellent hose.

Oxygen was almost empty, acetyline was also way down.

Exchanged the tanks for full ones @$75.00 total.

My buddy who has the welding shop were i got the new bottles tells me i have a top of the line "PUROX" torch set, and just the cutting head is around $600.00.
So i,m quite pleased with the deal.