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wierdscience
11-01-2011, 07:03 PM
A dam fine landing I would say!-

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2011-11-01/poland-crash-landing/51029360/1?csp=34news

Weston Bye
11-01-2011, 07:44 PM
A fine landing indeed, and the pilot deserved praise.... But only to the extent that he didn't botch it. Such a landing, wheels or no wheels, should be routine. He should grease it on every time. I have endured rough landings where the pilot had no excuse for such.

The network news reports put me in bad sorts with their sappy fawning over the " heroic pilot, the equal of Sully Sullenberger." The wheels-up landing doesn't compare to the water landing on the Hudson.

What has happened to our world where the achievement of routine competence is equated with heroism? Nonetheless, I am grateful for the pilot's competence.

radkins
11-01-2011, 08:56 PM
Not to take away from Sully who obviously did a great job in a bad situation but every "hero" pilot story seems to pale in comparison to Capt. Alfred Haynes the pilot of the DC 10 that cashed in Sioux City Iowa in 1989. That's the most amazing display of cool headedness and skill I have ever heard of. Although 112 people died many more would have been killed had Capt. Haynes not acted as he did, that pilot was a true hero!

vpt
11-01-2011, 09:23 PM
Where was the nissan truck?

Evan
11-01-2011, 09:24 PM
Re Iowa City, I heard that they set up the same situation on a simulator with a view to teaching pilots to deal with it should something similar arise. It turned out to be too difficult for most pilots to accomplish. Invariably they would lose it at some point. Flying with only the engines for pitch and yaw control and many seconds spoolup delay nearly always resulted in porpoising out of control.

radkins
11-01-2011, 09:29 PM
Re Iowa City, I heard that they set up the same situation on a simulator with a view to teaching pilots to deal with it should something similar arise. It turned out to be too difficult for most pilots to accomplish. Invariably they would lose it at some point. Flying with only the engines for pitch and yaw control and many seconds spoolup delay nearly always resulted in porpoising out of control.


And through the whole thing he was cool and calm, at times even joking with the controllers. When one of the controllers told him he was clear to land on any runway Capt Haynes said "so you're going to be picky and make it a runway"? True hero in every sense.

darryl
11-01-2011, 09:32 PM
That's taking cost-cutting measures past the extreme- were the wheels an option that they passed on? :)

uncle pete
11-01-2011, 09:50 PM
Those WW 2 pilots landing back in England with a shot up aircraft, crew and sometimes themselves did a pretty damn good job under far worse conditions. That's not brought up to take anything away from the other pilots mentioned.

Pete

Evan
11-01-2011, 10:14 PM
I had my first pilot training from a former RCAF pilot. He told me about the time he had to land his Hurricane with the throttle at maximum because the cable had been shot away. The only control he had was blipping it on and off at full throttle with the magnetos which is a good way to blow up the engine and to snap roll the aircraft. Then we went up for my second lesson and he demonstrated what happens when you cross control the aircraft and hold the nose up. It snap rolled inverted. Fortunately it was a Fleet Canuck which is fully aerobatic.

radkins
11-01-2011, 10:33 PM
I think I remember reading that in WW1 some of those rotary engines had no conventional throttle and power was controlled with the ignition being switched on/off.

The Artful Bodger
11-01-2011, 11:14 PM
I think I remember reading that in WW1 some of those rotary engines had no conventional throttle and power was controlled with the ignition being switched on/off.


From what I recall reading they had rudimentary control of the carburetor which they had to adjust for altitude and power, these controls were far to slow for landing so the pilot had a control to short or one or more of the plugs. Of course there was the danger that if they shorted out for too long the plugs would oil up.

radkins
11-01-2011, 11:25 PM
Of course there was the danger that if they shorted out for too long the plugs would oil up.


I am sure that was one of the least dangerous things they dealt with, absolutely unbelievable what they were flying!

On another subject those rotary engines were fascinating to say the least.

KIMFAB
11-01-2011, 11:39 PM
Long story here. I was on a Republic air flight that lost the front and half of the right landing gear upon takeoff.

We flew in circles while dumping fuel and had 2 jets from Nellis AFB about 8 ft off the wings looking at the damage. Got some good pics of them somewhere.

We landed veeery carefully with the nose in the air till the last second and slid along for a bit. Pilot did a good job.

Got in the airport and the news media was there asking questions, I told them what happened and they were not interested.
They wanted to talk only to the people that were panicked.

Pretty much finished any good image I might have had for the media right there.

wierdscience
11-01-2011, 11:41 PM
How about working on the engine in mid-flight?

http://travelforaircraft.wordpress.com/2010/10/27/key-to-aerial-refueling/

lakeside53
11-01-2011, 11:41 PM
Then we went up for my second lesson and he demonstrated what happens when you cross control the aircraft and hold the nose up. It snap rolled inverted. Fortunately it was a Fleet Canuck which is fully aerobatic.


While practicing accelerated stalls, my wife's instructor (owner of the FBO) noticed she was cross controling a little with the nose came up as the speed bled off... so he told her to push the rudder in more and dial in more opposing aileron; he was going to teach her a simple lesson what happens.

Oh well.. sure enough, the POS Tomahawk snapped into it's typical nasty vertical spin (I hate that aircraft - placarded "not rated for spins" but it sure is easy to do and ugly when it does). My wife isn't the "scream and throw-up-hands" type... she thinks it's a stall. So full forward yoke and full throttle. LOL.... clip boards flying around the cabin, instantly pointing at the ground, unreasonable control forces immediately required, instructor screaming... "I've got it, let go of the ****ing yoke... 300 feet off the ground and beyond red-lined air speed he recovers. He was much more shaken than she was, and never dreamed she'd try to recover. She never flew with him again until her flight test. Unfortunately he was the local FAA Examiner, but she passed perfectly;)


My USAF (ret) instructor was completly different - you could be in an inverted dive with the wings falling off and he'd never take over; asked me on many occassions - "so... what are you going to do"? :)

The Artful Bodger
11-02-2011, 12:48 AM
I am sure that was one of the least dangerous things they dealt with, absolutely unbelievable what they were flying!

On another subject those rotary engines were fascinating to say the least.


Around about 1971 I saw an old man arrive at a fly spec south Pacific island having come from French Polynesia several hundred miles away, it was remarkable how far he had come with very basic navigation tools and we did not even have a radio beacon on our island. But what was even more remarkable was that he had made the trip in a Piper Cub with a small fuel drum behind the seat and a hand pump to feed the gravity tank in the wing.

Someone said to him that it was a long way to come in such a little plane and he remarked that we wished he had had a plane like that over the front in 1914!

Your Old Dog
11-02-2011, 01:49 AM
In my opinion a hero is someone who risk his own life to save anothers. Parking a car, buss or plane safely to save your own skin doesn't count, it just means you are skilled if you survive.

In Buffalo, we have a chopper pilot for the Erie County Sheriffs department who has on many occasions exhibeted heroic behavior such as flying a chopper in violent weather to try and save a life or my favorite, landing his chopper on an ice flow on Lake Erie to go out and grab his co-pilot by the ankles to haul him out of a busted up ice flow as he hung onto a 10 year old boy. Those guys are hero's. They put their lives in great peril to save anothers.

For the record, I was on the Awards and Decorations team in VietNam for several months and have typed up many of the reports for submission from our Viet Vets. Just showing up for work doesn't count in my book, you have to "risk" your life when you could otherwise stayed home and had another cup of coffee.

True hero's are being swalled up in the nations medias search for news copy. Call the cops on the phone and you're a hero? If so, what honor is their for a person who risk their life against certain negative odds?

Evan
11-02-2011, 04:56 AM
Just a few days ago a Beech King Air crashed short of the runway at Vancouver International. The left engine ran out of oil and and died a couple of hundred feet above the city streets below. The aircraft did a hard roll left and the pilot had no choice except to pull the throttle on the right which mean he had a sudden landing on the road. The road was thankfully nearly empty. He hit a lamp standard just before touchdown which screwed up the landing and ended up skidding down the road on fire.

Want some real heros? Bystanders immediately rushed the plane getting covered in fuel as they did, pried open the rear door, entered the burning plane and hauled out all the passengers while fighting the flames with a couple of little fire extinguishers. They managed to put out the pilots who were both on fire and pulled them out too but one didn't make it.

They saved all but one of 11 people. If it weren't for their immediate action it is most likely all would have died.

This is what they were running into.

http://ixian.ca/pics9/kingair.jpg

http://vancouver.24hrs.ca/News/local/2011/10/27/18888766.html

Davidhcnc
11-02-2011, 06:40 AM
A dam fine landing I would say!-

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2011-11-01/poland-crash-landing/51029360/1?csp=34news


"The plane, escorted by two F-16 fighter jets, landed with nearly empty fuel tanks after dumping fuel in preparation for the emergency landing, LOT spokesman Leszek Chorzewski said."

..what were the fighter jets for? Is there a situation were they would shoot it down?....I'm guessing there is little else contribution they could make.

vpt
11-02-2011, 07:42 AM
How come planes don't have parachutes?

philbur
11-02-2011, 09:06 AM
They were probably there initially to see why the undercarriage wouldn't go down. After that it's a bit difficult to say we're off for tea and biscuits, good luck, you're on your own.

Phil:)



..what were the fighter jets for? Is there a situation were they would shoot it down?....I'm guessing there is little else contribution they could make.

wierdscience
11-02-2011, 09:40 AM
How come planes don't have parachutes?

IIRC some small planes have been fitted with them,but a plane the size of a 767 would need one big arsed parachute.

Also what conditions would there have to be to deploy it?I guess if the plane was stalled out and falling like a brick would be one.Then again you wouldn't have much choice of where it sat down either.Big multi hundred ton plane setting down on top of houses and telephone poles or in a forest,a pin cushion comes to mind:eek:

Evan
11-02-2011, 12:57 PM
A parachute for a large aircraft is totally impractical. They do exist for small aircraft and ultralights and work well. Look up ballistic parachutes.

Rustybolt
11-02-2011, 01:19 PM
How come planes don't have parachutes?

In most situations the plane is too low for them to be any good.

vpt
11-02-2011, 03:42 PM
In most situations the plane is too low for them to be any good.


Well simply pull up! :D