PDA

View Full Version : Bulb ban cancelled:



sasquatch
12-23-2011, 08:59 PM
Ontario was institutiing a light ban this comming January on 100 and 75 watt incandesant bulbs, also the T12 Flouresants.

Noticed today the Ban has now been cancelled till 2014 !

(After most people went out and got stocked up on bulbs and tubes).:rolleyes:

darryl
12-23-2011, 09:45 PM
I still think somebody has to come up with the TIR module for storing sunlight- the total internal reflection module. As long as the photons don't convert into anything else, you could keep them coming in as long as you have light, then let them out a little at a time when you need light. Wouldn't have to be very big either as long as photons don't interfere with each other. It could keep on absorbing sunlight for as long as you kept it exposed. Just a couple of technical problems to overcome, then you have it. Simple. You could have a pocket model too. No more blue tinge, no more AAAs, Cree go home, Deal Extreme go home :)

Lew Hartswick
12-23-2011, 10:27 PM
I still think somebody has to come up with the TIR module for storing sunlight- the total internal reflection module. As long as the photons don't convert into anything else, you could keep them coming in as long as you have light, then let them out a little at a time when you need light. Wouldn't have to be very big either as long as photons don't interfere with each other. It could keep on absorbing sunlight for as long as you kept it exposed. Just a couple of technical problems to overcome, then you have it. Simple. You could have a pocket model too. No more blue tinge, no more AAAs, Cree go home, Deal Extreme go home :)
Reminds me of science fiction from the 50's . "Slow Glass" or something
like that the images came out the other side after years.
...lew...

Scottike
12-23-2011, 10:54 PM
Yea, but photons are so small, how do you keep them from getting out and running amok?

darryl
12-23-2011, 11:19 PM
Nano tech- :)

Davo J
12-23-2011, 11:22 PM
I wish they would have postponed it here.

Dave

macona
12-24-2011, 03:46 AM
And if you get too many photons on one place they will go Union. Next time you go to use it they will go on strike.

Tony Pratt
12-24-2011, 06:52 AM
Unfortuanately the EU twats are still banning all incandescent bulbs over here.
Tony

PixMan
12-24-2011, 07:32 AM
I get so wound up about these bans. The amount of energy saved in actual use is so minimal, and I believe even that is lost in the manufacturing shift to those dim, funky color Compact Florescent Lamps.

We have made tungsten lamps in the US and other developed countries for a hundred years. We know how to do it, and we do it efficiently. CFL's, on the other hand, are more expensive to make, so we ship production to China where they don't have to worry about handling the mercury and other dangerous components. I am of the opinion (no substantiated facts) that those bulbs use far more energy to make than they save over the lifetime.

For the tiny bit of energy savings those CFL's offer, I believe we could find huge chunks of wasted energy by just looking around at all the things lit at night that don't need it.

I want my "decorative" bare 100 watt incandescent lamp over my dining room table. It's on perhaps 1 or 2 hours a day, and I can afford to pay for it.

herbet999
12-24-2011, 08:29 AM
Although the ban won't go into effect here in the states, I bought several cases at an auction earlier this year.. I'm good for a long time.

sasquatch
12-24-2011, 08:43 AM
I'd say pixman has it right and i have to agree with his statements!!

davidwdyer
12-24-2011, 10:08 AM
Did they really stop the ban or just stop the funding for enforcing the ban?

I thought I read that they just eliminated the funding for a while so so one could enforce it. The same article said that most major producers are already ramped up to stop production and so there may not be many choices available.

Anyone else heard about this?

bborr01
12-24-2011, 10:09 AM
I get so wound up about these bans. The amount of energy saved in actual use is so minimal, and I believe even that is lost in the manufacturing shift to those dim, funky color Compact Florescent Lamps.

We have made tungsten lamps in the US and other developed countries for a hundred years. We know how to do it, and we do it efficiently. CFL's, on the other hand, are more expensive to make, so we ship production to China where they don't have to worry about handling the mercury and other dangerous components. I am of the opinion (no substantiated facts) that those bulbs use far more energy to make than they save over the lifetime.

For the tiny bit of energy savings those CFL's offer, I believe we could find huge chunks of wasted energy by just looking around at all the things lit at night that don't need it.

I want my "decorative" bare 100 watt incandescent lamp over my dining room table. It's on perhaps 1 or 2 hours a day, and I can afford to pay for it.

CFL's use about 25 percent as much power as a comparable incandescent bulb. I would not consider a 75 percent savings in any energy bill a "tiny bit of energy savings".

I have changed almost all of the bulbs in my house/shops over to CFL's and have seen a fairly dramatic energy savings.

I suppose I could afford to use $20 bills to start fires too, but I don't.

Brian

loose nut
12-24-2011, 10:51 AM
It's not a 75% saving on your energy bill. Household lighting makes up a small portion of your energy use. The difference between incandescence and CFL bulbs is a few percent of your energy bill and its not that saving energy isn't good but being forced into anything is bad.

loose nut
12-24-2011, 10:53 AM
One of the reasons that incandescence bulbs are being phased out is a potential shortage of tungsten to make them.

Weston Bye
12-24-2011, 11:20 AM
Shortage of tungsten? May be so, but sounds fishy to me. Got a reference?

I think even the CFLs contain some tungsten.

Recently I needed to machine some tungsten electrodes and fixture nests for a resistance welding application. I saved all the chips, a pound or two. Will I be rich?

Weston Bye
12-24-2011, 01:18 PM
Sooooo.... I can keep this one.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/Weston/DSCN4203.jpg

loose nut
12-24-2011, 01:33 PM
Shortage of tungsten? May be so, but sounds fishy to me. Got a reference?


No, I just remember about 10 years ago it was in the news, somewhere, that there was going to be a problem with tungsten shortages with so much of it going into light bulbs and it not being reclaimable from them. It has a finite supply.:confused:

Bill736
12-24-2011, 01:36 PM
I've tried to get onboard with the efficient light bulb thing, but it's been tough going. I've bought at least 15 compact fluorescent lights ( CFLs) over the last two years, and many of them have been disappointments. Either they overstate the " equivalent" light output, or they hum and buzz, or they fail prematurely, or they're slow starting, or the color temperature is not what I expected. The ones that claim to be " dimmable" have been a particular disaster, and I'm stocking up on regular incandescent 60 watt bulbs for all of my house lights on dimmers.
I have no objection to saving energy or money, but it's going to take a while to pay off the money, time, and effort I've spent fiddling with these CFLs. Of course, I still need a stock of 100 watt incandescents for use in clip-on reflector lights for my shop, for uses where I need some heat such as drying paint, fiberglass, making sure fresh concrete or water pipes don't freeze, etc.
On the other hand, I have no objections to converting my shop tube fluorescents from T12s to the more efficient types of T8s , considering the poor performance of my old T12 fixtures in cold weather. Finding reliable T8 fixtures at reasonable prices has been the problem though, since I've bought three low priced 4 foot twin bulb fixtures with unreliable starters already. They work for a while, and then stop working. Then they start working again.
Two of them were marked " made in USA " . They also come with rather small reflectors. There should be reliable fixtures available somewhere between the $22 ones I've bought and the $100 ones sold for commercial use.

aboard_epsilon
12-24-2011, 01:55 PM
Sooooo.... I can keep this one.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/Weston/DSCN4203.jpg

bet that's the fire station one ..

also looks like one out of the City of Ember film ..

anyone know why they use British three pin plugs in that film .:confused:

Weston Bye
12-24-2011, 02:10 PM
bet that's the fire station one ..

Nope, it's mine. My sister found a bunch of them in a northern Michigan vacation cabin and gave me one. I only burn it on rare occasions. I would like to set it up to run on reduced voltage and use it as a night light.

Seems I heard that the fire station light was running at around 90 volts and that helped to account for its long life.

[edit]
I went and had a look,

http://www.centennialbulb.org/facts.htm#anchor2433

I was wrong. the lamp has been running at 120 volts.

I would still like to run mine at reduced voltage.

aboard_epsilon
12-24-2011, 02:32 PM
interesting link from the website you linked to ..

http://www.catalanfilmsdb.cat/en/productions/documentary-television/the-light-bulb-conspiracy-ndash-the-untold-story-of-planned-obsolescence/2749/

film in the link is on you tube

here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bxzU1HFC7Q

Your bulb Should add a nice atmosphere of steampunk

I'm a fan of this

inside my boat ...will get the screws changed to brass cross heads when i get the chance

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/FOXCUB%20EPSILON/inside_epsilon_2a.jpg

all the best.markj

Weston Bye
12-24-2011, 02:50 PM
Nice electrical panel, Mark.

I too am an admirer of functional Steampunk.

Sad to say, the vast majority of Steampunk fans are ill equipped and have to settle for play-acting with the odd bits and bobs glued together to resemble some Victorian contrivance. Many are highly imaginitive, nonetheless.

Bill736
12-24-2011, 03:27 PM
Neat old bulb , that vacation house one ! Back years ago, before electronic dimmers were common, some people would wire two bulbs in series to use in pump houses and the like. Although the wattage was reduced per bulb, they would last nearly forever. I've noticed in my home that bulbs ( usually 60 watt) that run on dimmer circuits last a very long time , even if they're used at high brightness. I suspect the dimmer creates a soft start, and/or a slightly reduced voltage even when turned up to max.

lakeside53
12-24-2011, 04:01 PM
Same idea on "commercial" bulbs - they are "130 volt", and run a heck of a lot longer on 120.

macona
12-24-2011, 04:21 PM
interesting link from the website you linked to ..

http://www.catalanfilmsdb.cat/en/productions/documentary-television/the-light-bulb-conspiracy-ndash-the-untold-story-of-planned-obsolescence/2749/

Your bulb Should add a nice atmosphere of steampunk

I'm a fan of this

inside my boat ...will get the screws changed to brass cross heads when i get the chance

all the best.markj

I think flat heads would look better.

aboard_epsilon
12-24-2011, 04:43 PM
I think flat heads would look better.

yup typo there ..i meant brass slot heads

Evan
12-24-2011, 05:34 PM
Wouldn't have to be very big either as long as photons don't interfere with each other.

Actually they do interfere when the electric field density becomes strong enough. I don't know what would happen but something would change.

With ultra high power lasers a self focusing effect kicks in at sufficiently high power levels. The electric field affects the transmission medium via an effect called Kerr Self Focusing. It is hypothesized that this may also happen in a vacuum since the vacuum isn't really empty as it is filled with a sea of virtual particles.

Also, it is possible to make mirrors with 100% efficiency and oddly, even greater than 100% efficiency. No, there is no free lunch, the mirrors require a power input. The power input is only proportionate to the loss so it isn't great. See Phase Conjugate Mirror.

As usual, the problem with compact storage of large amounts of power is that the common name for such a device is "BOMB".

aboard_epsilon
12-24-2011, 05:50 PM
what about a lump of whatever stuff the paint on watch faces...that gives out light after it been illuminated for a couple of mins ..

now if someone could figure out how to capture the light in this substance ..and turn it off untill needed ..they are onto a winner

all the best.markj

Evan
12-24-2011, 06:49 PM
Watch faces used to be painted with radioactive radium mixed with phosphor until the watch face painters began dying of cancer in large numbers because they pointed the brushes by licking them. Currently zinc sulphide is used which stores light because electrons are pumped to a higher shell by incident photons which is a metastable state. When the electrons drop down a random time later they emit light. As a method of storing energy it has extremely low efficiency, less than a tiny fraction of a percent.

darryl
12-24-2011, 06:59 PM
It should be fairly apparent that enough light to see by doesn't represent very much power. CFs and leds produce light more efficiently than incandescent, but they still dissipate much of the energy used as heat. Whether or not another still more efficient method of producing light to see by comes up, we still have to consider it from a broader perspective- where does the heat actually go?

For the most part it goes into your home, helping to heat it. If your home has electric heat, you should probably be seeing zero effect on your electric bill by using these more efficient methods of producing light. If you use another method of heating, it would be difficult to ascertain how much of an increase in that bill could be ascribed to your use of more efficient methods of lighting.

Where you live and when you use energy for lighting is going to play a big part in this, of course. If your use of incandescents makes your air conditioner run more often, then yes you would be ahead of the game by using more efficient lighting.

Of course, as others have suggested, the industrial use of power and materials to produce these CFs is probably more wasteful and damaging to our environment than the production of incandescents. If you look at the big picture, you may actually not be ahead, except on an individual and temporary level. KISS is a good principle, and CFs are not simple.

I have and use several CFs, but I have stopped buying them. Some have died way before their time, and I'll never recoup the cost of them in energy savings. In general, led 'bulbs' are too expensive- I think that for me, the biggest savings will be in not leaving the lights on so much.

aboard_epsilon
12-24-2011, 07:40 PM
Watch faces used to be painted with radioactive radium mixed with phosphor until the watch face painters began dying of cancer in large numbers because they pointed the brushes by licking them. Currently zinc sulphide is used which stores light because electrons are pumped to a higher shell by incident photons which is a metastable state. When the electrons drop down a random time later they emit light. As a method of storing energy it has extremely low efficiency, less than a tiny fraction of a percent.

Yup, i knew they used to use radium ..i remember watching the documentary about the radium dial company ...and how those people got cancer ..just didnt know what they used today.

all the best.markj

Evan
12-24-2011, 09:58 PM
If your home has electric heat, you should probably be seeing zero effect on your electric bill by using these more efficient methods of producing light.

If you are using electric heat you desperately need another heat source. With any other source the makeup heat for the reduced waste is paid at the usually much lower cost of the alternate heat source. Saving electric power is a big win compared to even oil heat and especially natural gas. Natural gas prices are really low per kilowatt hour and will stay that way for a long time because of the huge oversupply being caused by new reserves in the Bakken formations in the US and Canada.