Syil Cnc Mill

[daveo]

I want a cnc mill, I have been looking at many... Does anyone own one of these http://cnc-programing.blogspot.com/2011/01/syil-x4-plus-cnc-mill.html ?

I cant find anything good or bad about them... Thanks!

[DFMiller]

When I looked at them a few years ago they never responded to my query.
I ended up buying a Seig KX3. I understand they are similar mechanically.
I CAN NOT recommended a KX3. People claim the KX1 is much better that the KX3
I would suggest either getting a Manual mill that you can inspect and then convert. Or best suggestion is save up your money and buy a Tormach. They have a great reputation. I also would not buy another Chinese unless I had inspected it and went over it with a dial indicator and made sure it delivered what was promised.

Yes I am very pissed with Seig right now. PM me for more details.

Dave

[gundog]

What do you plan to do with it hobby or business? You need to be more specific as too what you plan to use it for Sherline makes a nice mini mill Haas Makes nice machines there is a mile of difference between their capabilities. I am not the expert but there are guys on here that can help just fill in a few more blanks and a budget.

Mike

[macona]

I would look for a bigger machine if you can fit it. You will run out of room for anything but the smallest projects very quickly.

[daveo]

What do you plan to do with it hobby or business? You need to be more specific as too what you plan to use it for Sherline makes a nice mini mill Haas Makes nice machines there is a mile of difference between their capabilities. I am not the expert but their are guys on here that can help just fill in a few more blanks and a budget.

Mike

Both, Im not going to cut parts all day long but it will see some use. I intend to make my money back with it!

[pressurerelief]

I have had a tormach for four years and can say nothing but good things about it. My only problem as Macona said is you run out of room quickly. I also own a Haas TL-1 and hope to mate it soon with a TM-1P as a replacement for the Tormach.

The tormach has some of the best post sales service I have ever experienced. The company is constantly adding upgrades and accessories and by virtue of the modular design you are not locked into the machine purchased. Two years down the road you can upgrade to the latest and greatest.

My two cents... Whatever you buy try to take a test cut first and ask about service after the sale from someone who has owned the machine for two or three years. Most of the manufacturers or distributors keep lists of who has a machine in your area that you can speak with. Good Luck

[DFMiller]

+1000 on pressurerelief"s comments.
Both his comments are bang on and that's why I cant recommend a Seig KX3.
Dave

[daveo]

+1000 on pressurerelief"s comments.
Both his comments are bang on and that's why I cant recommend a Seig KX3.
Dave

Im going with a Tormach, I appreciate your input guys! Im sure I will be back here needing all kinds of help! LOL:D

[Steve Seebold]

I have 2 Dyna-Mite 2400 mills. They are nice little, heavy, rigid little machines. But the operative word here is "little". Travel on these machines is 6.2 in X, 5.0 in Y and 4.0 in Z. Spindle speed is 250 to 10,000 RPM. Rapids are 30 (thirty) inches per minute.

They are very accurate machines and work well with cutters 1/4 inch and down.

I am an ex-owner of a Haas TM1 which was a wonderful machine. I also owned a FADAL 3016 at the same time. The FADAL was the better machine, but the Haas had the better control.

I had a major health issue in 2007 and was forced me to sell the shop and retire.

Now I have had a Tormach PCNC1100 in my garage since July of this year. Let me tell you, THIS is a great machine. It will do ANYTHING the Haas or FADAL would do, just not as fast. AND it didn't cost $75,000.00.

I have done surface machining with it. And I have cut threads. It has a maximum spindle speed of 5,100 RPM, and rapid rates are a little slow compared with equipment today, but when you're only moving 2 inches, you don't need to move 2,000 inches per minute.

I have a product line for my Tormach. I make parts for gasoline powered remote control model boats. I will do runs of 100 pieces at a time. OK, the machine is a little on the slow side, but I'm supposed to be retired, so what do I have besides time

I love my Tormach and I have room in the garage for another one, but I am going to wait to see the lathe they are working on before I make the move.

A Haas TL1 might be a good choice too.

The way I got my Tormach was fun. I refuse to wear long pants or a tie. One day last June my wife came to me and told me that if I would wear a suit to her niece's wedding, she would find the money for me to get the Tormach. I stood up and said, "let's go buy a suit". The Tormach arrived July 13, 2011.

Now that I have the suit, I have absolutely no idea what I'm going to do with it. I certainly don't want to be buried in it.

I haven't run the Dyna-Mites since the Tormach got here.

[kf2qd]

For just over a year I had my hands on a KX3 from Little Machine Shop. I had to do some playing to get Mach3 setup like I wanted and the Sieg Forum was less than helpful...

I liked the machine and the one I had my hands on was a very nice machine. All fits and finish were very good and when I got the homing configured (using all stock switches) it was closer than I could measure with a dial indicator.

The KX1 is just too small in my opinion. KX3 is about twice as big.

[macona]

It will do ANYTHING the Haas or FADAL would do

Except rigid tapping, spindle positioning, parametric programming, and good conversational.

[Steve Seebold]

OK, it will do ALMOST anything a FADAL it a Haas will do.

[Black Forest]

The way I got my Tormach was fun. I refuse to wear long pants or a tie. One day last June my wife came to me and told me that if I would wear a suit to her niece's wedding, she would find the money for me to get the Tormach. I stood up and said, "let's go buy a suit". The Tormach arrived July 13, 2011.

Now that I have the suit, I have absolutely no idea what I'm going to do with it. I certainly don't want to be buried in it.



Steve that is a no brainer....Put the suit on and come down to breakfast. Then you will get another CNC machine from your wife......DUH!

[MikeHenry]

Except rigid tapping, spindle positioning, parametric programming, and good conversational.

The NFS Wizards do a pretty good job of conversational programming and those are available to anybody that runs Mach3, as does the Tormach.

It wouldn't surprise me too much if Tormach didn't add options for rigid tapping and spindle positioning somewhere down the road, assuming that here is enough demand for it.

I'm familiar with parametric capabilities in CAD, but not in CNC programming - can you provide a brief description?

Mike

[macona]

No, you won't see rigid or position on tormach unless they go with something other than mach. You need full closed loop on the spindle with an encoder, which is something Mach just can't handle. I know of someone who is working on something that might be able to incorporate it as a 3rd party solution, but that may never happen either.

EMC will do it, but EMC is EMC.

[Hood]

No, you won't see rigid or position on tormach unless they go with something other than mach. You need full closed loop on the spindle with an encoder, which is something Mach just can't handle. I know of someone who is working on something that might be able to incorporate it as a 3rd party solution, but that may never happen either.

EMC will do it, but EMC is EMC.

If Tormach go with an external control board it is quite possible to do rigid tapping, they could also fit a servo and do it now via the parallel port. Same with spindle orientation, that could be possible. Of course that all adds cost so is it likely? probably not.
Hood

[John Stevenson]

There are always people who want more but when push comes to shove it's never them with their wallets out.

The people who buy these machines do so because they fill a niche in THEIR market and fulfil their wishes.

This was brought home to me early in the Mach program, one guy pleaded with Art to include some feature he *couldn't do without *

Art wrote it in the code and in all fairness did get thanked for his effort.
A few months down the line I came to run this feature and couldn't get it to work, emailed Art and it was broken and had never worked through an oversight on Arts behalf.

So much for *couldn't do without * :D

[Hood]

Ha ha I wonder how many times that has happened, probably more than I could count and I can use both hands and both feet for doing that :)

To be honest I dont see the big deal about rigid tapping, I can do it on both my mills but a floating holder isnt that dear (compared to a servo) and they work extremely well, in fact I tend to use it now rather than rigid tapping.
Everyone to their own I suppose :)
Hood

[Steve Seebold]

With a reversing tapping head or a extension, compression tapping holder, I do quite well without rigid tapping.

If Tormach were to add rigid tapping, about the only thing that would happen in my opinion would be a significant price increase, which would defeat the purpose of this type of machine.

OK, so the Tormach takes a little longer to make threads, if you're in that much of a hurry. and you have the extra money, Haas has the DT-1 that will tap holes at 5,000 RPM and rapid at 2,500 inches per minute, and set you back $55,000 by the time you pay for delivery and a fair amount of tooling.

For that much money, I can have 3 Tormach's and still have money to tke my wife to Las Vegas for a week.

[rowbare]

I love my Tormach and I have room in the garage for another one, but I am going to wait to see the lathe they are working on before I make the move.

Now that I have the suit, I have absolutely no idea what I'm going to do with it. I certainly don't want to be buried in it.

wink wink nudge nudge say no more

[macona]

I would rather buy a used Fanuc robomill or roommate for about 6-7000.

[John Stevenson]

Depends if you can find one and then if you can afford for Fanuc to maintain it.

Last time I rang them for support ~7 years ago they wanted a credit card before they would talk to me. Hourly rate of £80 just to keep me hanging on then send a tech out at £220 per hour - door to door.

Now if I was making millions doing aerospace then it's a no brainer but a one man band making a small niche market product needs to be able to get running again as quick and cheaply as possible.

If you can find one, afford it and run it then fine, that will suit one section of users but there are more than that one section.

If 20 years ago someone would have told you that you could have a CNC machine in your garage without a second mortgage you would have said they want locking up.

[macona]

There is a lot of people that support them. I was looking at one a couple years ago. Nice little machine. Quite a few around here running in smaller shops. Don't need to make millions to have a good small machine.

[John Stevenson]

Not quite knowing what they are i did a search on Ebay.co.uk and Ebay.com.

None listed either current or completed.
Did a search on Haas minimill and found one at 30 K and some 4th axis at 6 to 11 K.

Sounds like they would not fill a waiting list up, at least you could buy 10 tormach's / Syil's / Sieg's if you wanted to.

[Hood]

Its robodrill John, none on uk Ebay as you say but a couple in the USA from a quick search. Nice machines by all accounts and quite capable for their size. Cant recall hearing of them for the $7k kind of price but dont really look too much. Maybe the same place macona gets these cheap miltronics controls from? :D
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/19-7-X-15-Y-Fanuc-T10C-VERTICAL-MACHINING-CENTER-Fanuc-16iM-Control-/180784457443?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a1797e6e3
Hood

[macona]

The one I was looking at was a little older than the one in the picture and they wanted $6500 for it. It was at a local machinery dealer, came out of Warn (The winch people). Unfortunately it sold before I could get the funds together.

Lets see, then there was a machine shop auction that I went to and it had some crazy prices. Older Haas VF-3 went for $6500, the robomills (Newer models) went for somewhere around $13k to $15k. A really nice, big, Hitachi with pallet loader went for $15k as well.

Then I have searched on ebay every once and a while and have found them from anywhere from 4k on up. It seems to come and go.

So for the price of a new tormach you can get a used mill with a real control.

I have a friend who used to be a service tech for Milltronics. Thats how he gets the controls. They used to sell the controls by themselves, but not anymore. I need to bug him about that Cent 7 control he has... But I need a job first.

[Toolguy]

I have 2 Milltronics - an MB11 and an MB18. They are both 2001 with Centurion 6 controls. I really like the machines and the controls, They are super easy to program and edit. I use one or both nearly every day.