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View Full Version : OT: When were these bullets made?



winchman
01-02-2012, 05:46 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/winchman/MiscellaneousCannonNovember2011on018.jpg

On the inside of the flap, it reads, "Due to Nickel Shortage Case Plating Omitted, Superior Performance Unchanged"

I did some searching, but couldn't pin down when there was a nickel shortage that would have impacted the production of bullets.

Any idea when it was?

tdmidget
01-02-2012, 05:57 PM
Either WWII or Korea. Both suffered from Nickel shortages.

Grind Hard
01-02-2012, 07:11 PM
Will they still fire after all this time?

Fire properly, I mean. Not blow up and cause a huge mess in the gun and/or severe injury.

gizmo2
01-02-2012, 07:22 PM
They made short, long, and long rifle .22 rimfires. CB caps too for basement plinking. While they still make some high end target pistols that use shorts, I can't remember when the last time a 'long' was required. Most everything handles Long Rifle now. What you got there might get a collector twitchy, high velocity longs before Remington and Peters hooked up. I wouldn't shoot them.

Toolguy
01-02-2012, 07:33 PM
Aside from collector value, they will probably work just fine. A .22 rimfire doesn't have enough pressure to blow up much of anything.

lynnl
01-02-2012, 07:42 PM
Just checked - I've got an old box of Hi Power shorts, from about the early 50's I'd guess. They have no comment about nickel shortage, but the cases are just plain yellow brass. Maybe Peters just normally used plated brass cases, whereas other mfgrs didn't plate them. I've seen some silver colored, but mostly yellow brass colored.

Brings up another question: Often really old bullets will develop a whitish coating, lead oxide I presume. Would that oxide be especially abrasive to the bore, and hence best avoided?

I've got a bunch of .308 bullets like that, that've never been loaded. Just wondering if they're now worthless as ammo, and should just be melted down.

lynnl
01-02-2012, 07:44 PM
A .22 rimfire doesn't have enough pressure to blow up much of anything.

But that might be the problem. Might just go "poof" and leave the bullet lodged in the bore. :D

gnm109
01-02-2012, 09:04 PM
Will they still fire after all this time?

Fire properly, I mean. Not blow up and cause a huge mess in the gun and/or severe injury.

They should be just fine. I once owned an 1895 Chilean 7mm Mauser that I bought from a gun store in L.A. back when such weapons were quite plentiful. At the same time, the store was featuring military cartridges dated 1905 on the rear of the casing. the box was marked something like "Cartuchos, Militario" or words to that effect. I was told that they were filled with black powder, too.

They worked just fine after being some 65 years old at the time in the 1970s. Ammunition seems to keep rather well.

J Weber
01-02-2012, 11:46 PM
I had a bunch of 30-06 military surplus ammo that had a odd headstamp.Looked it up and it was US pre 1915.Shot just fine.Had a few that primers failed to fire.Maybe 1-2%. They all fired on 2nd try.

Ammo will last a long time.Primers are the weakest spot.Be sure to clean barrel to corrosive primer standards.

Black powder never goes bad.a buddy had a stash of 1870's Curtis and Harvey BP that he shot up.Shot better than most new made powder did.

Mike Burdick
01-02-2012, 11:59 PM
... too bad the box is torn. Does it match any of these?

http://www.ammolady.com/id2.html

Some information on the Peters Cartridge Co ....

http://www.forgottenoh.com/Peters/peters.html

winchman
01-03-2012, 12:10 AM
Wow, I was only seven when the Korean war ended in 1953. I started shooting a rifle soon after that, but I thought I'd have used up any of that stuff.

I did a bit of shooting in the late-'70s and early-'80s, and I was thinking it was left over from then. The ammo I'm sure was left over from that period does just fine now.

The closest match is this:

http://www.ammolady.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/Remington/.pond/a51.jpg.w300h156.jpg

P15. Peters HIGH VELOCITY 22 long rifle with rustless priming. Product code is 2283. Box is in very good condition. $35.00.

The product code on mine is 2269. It does say it's rustless priming.

barts
01-03-2012, 12:14 AM
From what I understand, corrosive primers keep - but non-corrosive ones don't. Which is why we're shooting 1970's 7.62x54R Eastern European ammo for less than 20c a round.... and using lots of Hoppe's afterward :D.

- Bart

SteveF
01-03-2012, 04:54 AM
Don't know how long non-corrosive primers last but .30-06 with 1967 and 1968 headstamps goes "Boom" just fine.

Steve

HWooldridge
01-03-2012, 08:50 AM
Don't know how long non-corrosive primers last but .30-06 with 1967 and 1968 headstamps goes "Boom" just fine.

Steve

I've got ammo made in the 30's and 40's that still fires just fine - no appreciable degradation that I can see. The hogs and the deer aren't any less dead either.

There was an article in the National Rifleman several years ago about powder and primer degradation which concluded that the smaller the container, the less likely degradation will take place. In other words, a 5 lb drum is worse than a 1 lb canister, which is worse than a single loaded shell. The results were based on available surface area and the ability of atmosphere to enter the container. I would think a .22 would be about optimal using that logic.

moe1942
01-03-2012, 08:53 AM
Sound like WWII vintage ammo. I was almost 12 at the end of the Korean war and don't remember any shortages.

I also remember extra long .22 ammo.

J Tiers
01-03-2012, 09:49 PM
Maybe the older ammo is OK for you folks.....

I know where there is some 12 Ga ammo for an old Hopkins and Allen that I would not fire for any amount of money you have...... I fully expect it would be a very bad idea..... some of it has a "liquid" leaking out.......

Willy
01-03-2012, 10:33 PM
From what I understand, corrosive primers keep - but non-corrosive ones don't. Which is why we're shooting 1970's 7.62x54R Eastern European ammo for less than 20c a round.... and using lots of Hoppe's afterward :D.

- Bart

The reason they are 20c a round is that they are less desirable because of the corrosive primer, they use Berdan type primers, and the cartridge case is more often than not, made of steel.
So not only are they cheaper to produce, especially considering they are military surplus from eastern block countries, but they cannot be reloaded either.

Left uncleaned too long under the wrong conditions, the corrosive effects of these cartridges can ruin a barrel and or the gas system on semi-autos. So as usual, you get what you pay for.

Mcostello
01-03-2012, 10:36 PM
During WW2 grandfather bought .22s for around .50 cents a piece,sold by onesies! Could not get anything else and had some mean hogs to butcher.

johnhurd
01-03-2012, 10:42 PM
Aside from collector value, they will probably work just fine. A .22 rimfire doesn't have enough pressure to blow up much of anything.

You will be surprised when you check the CUP on 22 rimfires..............

MaxxLagg
01-03-2012, 11:36 PM
I have a box of .22 shorts that somebody gave me awhile ago sitting on my dresser. I just kept them because of the novelty factor. I remember shooting shorts, longs, and long rifle all the time when I was a kid but somewhere along the way the shorts and longs disappeared. These shorts are "Mastercraft 22 short high velocity" made in Canada with a product number SB0950-4. I found a few examples for sale on an auction site for $35. Who knew this stuff had a market.

Chris S.
01-04-2012, 12:39 AM
The reason they are 20c a round is that they are less desirable because of the corrosive primer, they use Berdan type primers, and the cartridge case is more often than not, made of steel.
So not only are they cheaper to produce, especially considering they are military surplus from eastern block countries, but they cannot be reloaded either.

Left uncleaned too long under the wrong conditions, the corrosive effects of these cartridges can ruin a barrel and or the gas system on semi-autos. So as usual, you get what you pay for.

Eek, you had me going there. I have nearly 1000 rounds of pre iron curtain Czechoslovakian 7.9mm ammo in the original boxes that are dated 1954. They looked like brass when I bought them from a coworker and I never even considered that they might be steel. Fortunately, a magnet tells me they ain't steel. I have a 3rd Reich sporterized Mouser that I will be firing them with.

BTW, I did quite a bit of research on corrosive primers before spending the big bucks of $50.00 for them. :rolleyes: Yeah, I stole em!:p

Consensus is: Bring a bottle of Windex to the range or the hunting camp and patch out the bore and receiver with it soon after the shoot. Preferably, when the weapon is still warm. Follow that with a dry patch and follow that with a gun oiled patch.

Willy
01-04-2012, 12:46 AM
Chris, not all eastern block/mil surplus ammo is steel cased but a lot is.
Just something to be aware of when buying ammo. Like you said, bring a magnet.:)
Most of the steel cased stuff I've seen has a polymer type coating.

38_Cal
01-04-2012, 01:45 AM
As far as the power of a .22 goes, I had a neighbor bring me a Marlin Model 60 semi-auto that her son had shot one round from after buying it used, and as she put it, the gun "blew up". Well, not really, but the stock was split on the right side from half way up the forend to the pistol grip, where it was split away from the grip area. Fixed the wood and went looking for the cause of the blow up. Turned out that the entire case head had blown off the case body, and the remains of the case body were stuck in the chamber. Probably an instance of an over charged case or a bad cartridge where the head was formed. Got the body out of the chamber and polished it, ran a box of ammo through it and no further problems. Point is, "just a .22" had enough energy in that case to do some serious wood damage, and probably left the shooter's hand stinging and ears ringing!

David

barts
01-04-2012, 01:58 AM
Chris, not all eastern block/mil surplus ammo is steel cased but a lot is.
Just something to be aware of when buying ammo. Like you said, bring a magnet.:)
Most of the steel cased stuff I've seen has a polymer type coating.

At less than 20c per round, I don't worry about reloading 7.62x54R. Yes, it's steel cased and copper flashed - seems to shoot just fine. The ammo is FMJ.

The Mosin-Nagant is a sturdy Russian surplus WWII (mine is from 1943) bolt action rifle; they're usually about $100 on sale at Big 5. I clean it when I get home w/ brushes, patches and Hoppes. I'm sure that's better treatment than it got when in service. More modern ammo is somewhere from 50c to $1/round. I'd rather clean the rifle than my wallet; that Hoppes smells good.

- Bart

tdmidget
01-04-2012, 05:31 AM
Sound like WWII vintage ammo. I was almost 12 at the end of the Korean war and don't remember any shortages.

I also remember extra long .22 ammo.

Were you buying a lot of Nickel alloys at age 12? 200 series stainless was developed during the Korean conflict with Manganese replacing a portion of the Nickel due to the shortages.

Optics Curmudgeon
01-04-2012, 10:37 AM
Looking at Inco's company history: http://www.referenceforbusiness.com/history2/59/INCO-LIMITED.html the most severe shortage seems to have been 1950-1953, as suggested.

Chris S.
01-04-2012, 11:11 AM
The Mosin-Nagant is a sturdy Russian surplus WWII (mine is from 1943) bolt action rifle; they're usually about $100 on sale at Big 5. I clean it when I get home w/ brushes, patches and Hoppes. I'd rather clean the rifle than my wallet; that Hoppes smells good.

- Bart

Speaking of Hoppes powder solvent... Sometime, maybe 20 to 25 years ago, the American Rifleman / American Hunter did a study in response to a sh!t load of letters they received concerning Hoppes powder solvent. The gist of the letters complained that something had changed with the formula and they weren't happy about it. They stated that it still worked fine for cleaning powder residue but it no longer possessed the rust inhibiting properties that it once had. Most of the letters swore that the solvent alone used to protect the metal without the need for gun oil. Most of them wiped the whole gun down with it and liked not getting their hands oiled up when handling their guns later on.

The NRA did a number of experiments on various metals that were oiled, greased and wiped with various grades of both and placed in a jar of water. Hoppes was included, including both the new and old formula. The metal was observed submerged and after, while exposed to humid air. Not surprisingly, the grease worked very well but who wants grease or heavy oil all over their firearms?

Hoppes results: Sure enough, the new formula did little to nothing to inhibit rust. The old formula, on the other hand, kept the metal free of rust! Hoppes informed the NRA that the formula had been changed because the original contained PC-B's, which had recently (at that time) been determined to be a carcinogen.

Moral of the story: I had purchased two gallons of Hoppes a few years earlier. Yup, it was the old stuff and I wasn't about to toss it. Today, I still have about 3/4 gallon of it left, and no, I haven't grown a third eye. Not yet, anyway. On the up side, friends have the current formula and it still smells good! :D

Chris