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John Stevenson
02-01-2012, 07:29 AM
Derived from the abilities thread.

Even though you have been doing the same job most of your life it can always spring up the odd surprise.

Part gloat but no pics as yet, mislaid the camera card.
No not really a gloat as I bought these bits fair and square. Answered an advert for some cutting tools and amongst them were some morse taper reamers and some morse drills.

Yes I know got millions of morse drills but did anyone know they made drills to drill Morse holes ?

Well hands up because here's one guy that didn't. :confused: Often read in books about drilling a series of stepped holes then boring the taper, never read where it said :-

"Got to rack 5, bin 3 and select the correct morse taper drill with morse taper shank. "

Genuinely made as Morse drills and not a drill ground down because the lands and gullets are tapered and black original finish. Shank on this one clearly states No 3 Morse taper.

Got a No#1, No#2 and a No#3 in the job lot but the reamers started at MT#0 and went to MT#4 in roughing and finishing.

Dennis WA
02-01-2012, 08:25 AM
Sir John..I'm not ashamed to admit that I've learnt something new!

thanks
Dennis

Ian B
02-01-2012, 08:37 AM
I had some twist drills with about a 0.005" taper over the length of the flutes - these were the ones when used in a handheld electric drill that tried to break your wrists...

Ian

J Tiers
02-01-2012, 08:40 AM
Dang, JS, I surely never heard of such a thing, but it makes a ton of sense now that I have..... saves a lot of reamer wear.

Count me as one who didn't know.

And, very good score even at a regular fair price.

Tony
02-01-2012, 09:11 AM
I bet those'll come in handy.

What's even more convenient is you can just reverse them in your
tailstock and use the shank with some honing compound. :D

rkepler
02-01-2012, 09:48 AM
I've seen them in catalogs (or did once) but the cost was extremely high. More common are the taper pin drill/reamers to make the taper pin holes in one pass. The combo tool is a lot more than the cost of some drills and the reamer to make the same pin hole, I'd bet the same is true of the Morse Taper drills.

(Anyone ever get good use from any of the other tools? I've tried to use the drill/tap tools and never got a lot of use before they broke. How about the drill/reamers? (are those draps and dreamers?))

Evan
02-01-2012, 01:48 PM
They must take a lot of horsepower to turn.

Arcane
02-01-2012, 02:12 PM
They must take a lot of horsepower to turn.
Probably not too bad if you drill a series of stepped holes first. :D

Evan
02-01-2012, 02:13 PM
I suppose the clue that all the steps are gone is when it won't turn any more.

Oldbrock
02-01-2012, 02:57 PM
I've been at the tools longer than you John and I have never heard of them either. New one on me, never seen them advertised either. Peter

Evan
02-01-2012, 03:01 PM
I suppose the clue that all the steps are gone is when it won't turn any more.

Or twists the tang off. It isn't April yet is it?

Tony
02-01-2012, 03:06 PM
Now that I think about it, how would one of these actually work?
They'd have to cut on the flutes, no? If they weren't I'd imagine you'd
just wear a shoulder on the tip and it'd squeal and bind.

Now, if the cone were the other way, where the tip was bigger, then
I could see it working. :D

rohart
02-01-2012, 03:26 PM
As Tony says - they're not really drills, are they. If they cut on the flanks, and they have to in order to widen the entry hole, they're more like a cross between a drill and a reamer.

And why not. Pictures very necessary. Look for camera card !

I'm in search mode for a software manual for some obsolete software a friend leant me and I've lost - err, mislaid, I hope.

lynnl
02-01-2012, 03:43 PM
Was there a mfgr's name on them?

I'm wondering if they were special order/custom made, or something available in days of yore but no longer made.

I have an MT 3 reamer that looks kinda like a drill/reamer cross hybrid. There's one straight flute running lengthwise, with 2 or 3 helical flutes winding around. It'll remove material pretty quickly. (Too quickly actually!)

topct
02-01-2012, 03:50 PM
they're more like a cross between a drill and a reamer.

That's it, they're dreamers.

John Stevenson
02-01-2012, 04:06 PM
First picture of the marking.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/registered_user/mt3drill1.jpg

Clearly states No3 Morse taper and just rolling off to the side is Dormer a quite respected name.

Full shot.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/registered_user/mt3drill2.jpg

It has roughing chip breaker grooves in the leading edges to break the chips up, as Evan says because of the long cutting edges it will take some force to use this.
I presume the chip breakers help.

Richard Wilson
02-01-2012, 04:07 PM
John
We are waiting for you to try one out and tell us how well it worked. I've just got a nagging suspicion that the reason no one has ever heard of tapered drills is that they were not a howling success. I imagine they were not the easiest job in the world to resharpen either. Do these look as if they've been used much?

Richard

Peter.
02-01-2012, 04:43 PM
Was there a mfgr's name on them?

I'm wondering if they were special order/custom made, or something available in days of yore but no longer made.

I have an MT 3 reamer that looks kinda like a drill/reamer cross hybrid. There's one straight flute running lengthwise, with 2 or 3 helical flutes winding around. It'll remove material pretty quickly. (Too quickly actually!)

I'm trying to imagine how you can have a straight flute and helical flutes on the same cutter without them crossing over each other.

blowlamp
02-01-2012, 04:57 PM
I really can't imagine them working at all!!

I've got a brand new (Dormer?) Morse taper reamer and it takes off next to bugger all, no matter how hard I cram it in, but does get extremely tight to turn in the process.

Can you imagine the width of the chips? :eek:

Let us know how they work when you get chance.

Martin.

aboard_epsilon
02-01-2012, 05:23 PM
got one just like that john ...thought it was a reamer .

its twice as long though ...if mt1s are the same angle as mt2s it could do both .with through holes

all the best.markj

topct
02-01-2012, 05:36 PM
I've actually seen these before. A friend of mine has a set from No. 1 through 4. They are more for ruffing the hole before finishing with a straight flute. You would peck the hole using lots of lube to get them through.

I don't remember how he said you start them. From either a through hole or just a center or spot drill?

John Stevenson
02-01-2012, 06:17 PM
I'll give it a whirl and see how hard it is to do one.
It'll have to be Friday, out tomorrow delivering, installing and training up on a new CNC.

lynnl
02-01-2012, 07:27 PM
I'm trying to imagine how you can have a straight flute and helical flutes on the same cutter without them crossing over each other.

The helical flutes don't go completely around. They terminate at the ground groove behind the straight flute's relief, and begin at the groove in front of the straight flute. The ends of the helical flutes are sort of ground to an angle, so there's no sharp corner on them.

Kiwi
02-01-2012, 07:53 PM
New to me also Thanks

darryl
02-01-2012, 08:55 PM
Made to be mounted in the tailstock ram. When you're just about done drilling the tapered hole in your workpiece, the drill starts to spin in the tailstock bore. Then you turn it around and refinish the t/s bore. Just as you're getting done, the drill starts to spin in your workpiece, scoring the bore. So you turn the drill around again and refinish that. When you're just about done, the drill binds and ruins your t/s bore again- :)

mike4
02-01-2012, 09:27 PM
Would you not just drill a normal hole and then use these drills to cut it out to the desired morse taper, there wouldnt be as much stress on the bits or the machine.
I would take the process slowly and peck drill trying to keep the chips etc down to a minimum.
Would be great for tailstock repair or extensions for drills.
Michael