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View Full Version : Carbide insert endmill?



Black Forest
02-12-2012, 04:19 AM
Do any of you all use carbide insert type endmills? I have most all that I need for my lathe so now it is time to move on to the mill. At the moment I am only using carbide insert face mill on the lathe and boring bars. For normal (ok, what is normal) edge milling would there be any advantage to carbide over HSS end mill?

Black Forest
02-12-2012, 06:41 AM
Twenty two members have read this thread. Someone better answer me or I am I am going to hurt someone!

No one has any recommendations or even naysayings?

Slackers!

torker
02-12-2012, 07:23 AM
It's now 6 26AM Central time...I'm guessin the talkative ones are still sleeping

camdigger
02-12-2012, 07:25 AM
Do any of you all use carbide insert type endmills? I have most all that I need for my lathe so now it is time to move on to the mill. At the moment I am only using carbide insert face mill on the lathe and boring bars. For normal (ok, what is normal) edge milling would there be any advantage to carbide over HSS end mill?

No, I don't use them. I have a two flute model from one of the import houses, but haven't even installed it yet, so I can't comment.

beanbag
02-12-2012, 07:34 AM
Yeah, from 1 am to 4am for me. I don't feel like commenting about my insert end mill.

Black Forest
02-12-2012, 07:41 AM
It's now 6 26AM Central time...I'm guessin the talkative ones are still sleeping

Wake em up! What's their number I will call them all!

On the east coast in for instance Massachusettes(hint) it is nearly 8:00am. no one should be sleeping now.

beanbag
02-12-2012, 08:02 AM
It's sunday. Us lazy americans are sleeping in.

JoeFin
02-12-2012, 08:29 AM
Would not think of milling SS with any thing less then insert tooling. Only problem being finding "Good" APTK insert tooling in less then 5/8 diameter.

I have a pretty good variety of insert end mills, shoulder mills, ball mills from 5/8 to 1.5". Even a 4" and 6" fly cutter around here too.

Black Forest
02-12-2012, 08:32 AM
Would not think of milling SS with any thing less then insert tooling. Only problem being finding "Good" APTK insert tooling in less then 5/8 diameter.

I have a pretty good variety of insert end mills, shoulder mills, ball mills from 5/8 to 1.5". Even a 4" and 6" fly cutter around here too.


I am a farmer not a watch maker! It is not very often I use a end mill under 12mm.

platypus2020
02-12-2012, 08:34 AM
Okay, here goes, I have 3 different sets, 2 of them use the CCMT inserts and other one uses APKT inserts. They work fine, but because of their size, IIRC, the smallest is 9/16", aren't used that often. The one that uses the APKT insert is a much higher quality set, but they both work. I bought all of the sets used and would probably never buy a new set, because of my limited use of them and the cost.

JoeFin
02-12-2012, 08:44 AM
I am a farmer not a watch maker! It is not very often I use a end mill under 12mm.

Well you can do what I do and keep an eye out on Eboner for used insert holders. Of course before you purchase any thing be sure to check availability of inserts.

Often times I end up calling the manufacturer's sales department and ordering the first couple of boxes of inserts from them. Even better if you have a fellow machinist you can combine an order with to have sufficient quantity to get the price brake. - And YES - you will want to have several boxes/varieties of inserts available for when that order comes in and then you actually need the tool

PixMan
02-12-2012, 10:38 AM
Wake em up! What's their number I will call them all!

On the east coast in for instance Massachusettes(hint) it is nearly 8:00am. no one should be sleeping now.

Well, this one time I actually was sleeping at 8:00am. My dad was rushed to the hospital via ambulance at 3:15am, and I spent the next few hours there with my mom and sister. Seems a bit of pneumonia he didn't know he had got the better of him and he just dropped like a stone. He's doing well now, resting comfortably and is in good spirits.

You can call me now if you want, you have my number. ;)

You and I both have the Walter F4041 cutter, but they don't go below 1-1/2"/40mm. You'd do well with the F4042 cutters for smaller diameters. In that line there are 4 different size inserts and myriad different grades and edge preps. The ones you'd do best with if you like tools that work is the 8mm or 10mm insert. The size I mention means the length of the long side of the insert's cutting edge. That's the maximum depth per pass, though the cutters can actually go quite deep in multiple passes.

In the 8mm one you have cutters in 10mm & 12mm (or 3/8" and 1/2") diameter (single insert), and two insert cutters start at 16mm. The larger 10mm ADMT/ADGT/ADHT style inserts start at 16mm (or 5/8") and run 20mm, 25mm and up to really big. I like the 10mm insert best.

There are ADMT10T3xxR-xxx inserts for steels and cast iron, ADGT10T3xxR-xxx inserts for stainless steels and superalloys, and those nice extra-sharp ones like the you like for turning in ADHT10T3xxR-xxx, grade WXN15. for aluminum and light work in most other materials.

I don't advocate using most CCGT/CCMT inserts in milling cutters because they're usually in long-wearing turning grades rather than tough, impact resistant milling grades.

justanengineer
02-12-2012, 11:20 AM
I like HSS. I get it by the bucket loads at auctions for cheap. I also have some carbide, but generally find that when I eff something up I am much less upset having destroyed a cheap HSS cutter vs the more expensive carbide. Unfortunately, when working with mostly scrapbinium you never know when youre going to run into a piece that is simply not machinable.

Sorry I cant help, and please consider yourself fortunate that its 11:25 am EST and I am awake. I tend to work until ~3 am weekend nights.

torker
02-12-2012, 11:20 AM
Bout time some of you guys got up...sheesh...

cuslog
02-12-2012, 11:26 AM
I have a 3/4" that takes 2 APTK inserts IIRC (not in the shop at the moment), bought it from Glacern I think.
I like it for general hogging off material, inserts aren't too expensive and seem to give better life than HSS or carbide endmills.

What I don't like about it is those inserts do not cut squre to the bottom, the sides are slightly tapered, so it doesn't work well for the side of a slot for example if you've had to step the cut down, there will be several small ridges that need to be cleaned up with another endmill. So its not for finishing.

Black Forest
02-12-2012, 11:32 AM
Bout time some of you guys got up...sheesh...


REally, These guys whine because they got to bed at 3am and so they didn't get up early.

They are city folk that is for sure. We never used to go to bed before 3am on the weekends and still got to work at 6am in the morning.

On one ranch where I worked training their horses the owner Craig Haythorn told me on Saturdays we only had to work a half day....6am to 6pm!

Pixman you are forgiven for not answering sooner.

torker
02-12-2012, 11:37 AM
A ranch in Germany? :D

Black Forest
02-12-2012, 11:44 AM
A ranch in Germany? :D


I am a Texan and the ranch I referred to is the Haythorn Ranch in Nebraska.

It is the real deal at Haythorns.

Bill McLeod
02-12-2012, 12:21 PM
One of my main mills is a Kennametal KIPR-0.95-SD2.6-45 that one and the one close by in their catalouge are very good mills for low Horsepower mills. As previously mentioned, a must on stainless but gets used all the time everywhere. I have also bought AP style from Glacern tools and have found them good also. They come with a very long shank that I have shortened.

Carld
02-12-2012, 12:32 PM
I have thought about insert endmills from time to time and feel they are not worth it for most machining jobs. If your doing production work, especially on a CNC mill, they would be very useful. The fact that regrinds can be bought cheap and even new are not unreasonable is a major factor to me.

another aspect is the size of the endmill and there is a limit to how small they can be. Also, they are limited in dept of cut to the width of the insert face. I just don't see them as cost effective for most job shops or home shops.

I suppose if your dealing with repairs that are mostly the same and the need is for a large carbide endmill it could be cost effective. At least at the end of a pass you can rotate the insert and have new cutting surfaces if the metal is hard and destructive to the cutter.

Black Forest
02-12-2012, 01:16 PM
I have a quite rigid mill but only 4hp. I have seen insert mills mill quite deep actually. It was taking 9mm per pass to a total depth of 35mm.

torker
02-12-2012, 01:19 PM
I am a Texan and the ranch I referred to is the Haythorn Ranch in Nebraska.

It is the real deal at Haythorns.
Ok amigo...then you know the ways of the reata and know what it's like to set on the deck of a hurricane...so...why Germany?

Carld
02-12-2012, 02:13 PM
Opps, yes, there are insert endmills that have rows of inserts. It still seems to be an expensive way for the average shop.

Black Forest
02-12-2012, 02:30 PM
Ok amigo...then you know the ways of the reata and know what it's like to set on the deck of a hurricane...so...why Germany?


A beautiful blonde!

Black Forest
02-12-2012, 02:38 PM
Opps, yes, there are insert endmills that have rows of inserts. It still seems to be an expensive way for the average shop.

I don't think I need rows of inserts to go deep. Maybe in one pass then yes but I think I can go as deep as I need to the limits of the shank of the mill.

torker
02-12-2012, 03:10 PM
A beautiful blonde!
Oh geez...that's how I ended up out in Saskatchewan....cept a redheaded cowgirl...

Mcruff
02-12-2012, 03:34 PM
I have been using the Valenite 3/4" mini mills for around 20 years now, yes for a lot of milling they are far better than standard mills, especially if you have power feed. You get a cleaner finish and sharper corners with a HSS endmill so alot of times I rough with it and then finish with a regular endmill. Mine use the TPG inserts, they will last for about a year of generall use, running them maybe 10-12 hours a week. I also have a Shars 1 " 3 flute one that I use for larger parts.

PixMan
02-12-2012, 03:36 PM
Opps, yes, there are insert endmills that have rows of inserts. It still seems to be an expensive way for the average shop.

You're right about that, because I have two of these:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/kenm10759/Dads%20shop/IMG_0444-r.jpg

I don't know if I'll ever be able to use the 1-1/2" one shown here, as I only have a 1HP machine for now. The 1-1/4" one might see use now as I have a holder for it.

FWIW, the Walter F4042 cutters I mentioned are among the very best for machines with lower HP because they have a high shear angle that lowers the required HP.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/kenm10759/Dads%20shop/IMG_1369-r.jpg

I don't own that one, it's just one that a friend has of which I grabbed a photo.

Black Forest
02-12-2012, 04:08 PM
I don't know if I'll ever be able to use the 1-1/2" one shown here,

Pixman I use a 36mm roughing endmill a lot so it would be no problem for me if you sent that 1.5" endmill to me!

mike4
02-14-2012, 03:41 AM
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BF. I have several insert end mills ranging in size from 10mm to 30mm I have used them for a few years now and only once have I had a broken insert there was a hard spot on a pin which I had to bore out of a linkage.
They can be used for roughing or finish milling if you have time to practice.
They are very handy for cleaning up out of round holes in linkage on earth mover control arms etc.
Michael

dian
02-14-2012, 08:01 AM
is the shars 3/4 " mill advertised on top of the page any good?

PixMan
02-14-2012, 09:20 AM
I wouldn't want to say anything bad about an advertiser of this websites products.

My mother always told me "If you don't have anything good to say, don't say anything."

......

PixMan
02-14-2012, 09:23 AM
I don't know if I'll ever be able to use the 1-1/2" one shown here,

Pixman I use a 36mm roughing endmill a lot so it would be no problem for me if you sent that 1.5" endmill to me!

If you can find a 1-1/2" holder over there to fit your machine, I'll be happy to send it to you. The inserts are available from the French company Safety.