PDA

View Full Version : Headstock Oil for Eisen Lathe in 1-Gal. Jugs?



stevehgraham
03-08-2012, 11:19 PM
Wondering if anyone can help me avoid buying a giant pail of lathe oil.

I have a lathe on the way. It's an Eisen 1640, which is similar to a Victor. The manual says to use Shell Tellus 220 in the headstock. The closest thing I can find is Mobil DTE BB, which only comes in 5-gallon pails. Next down the list is Mobil DTE Extra Heavy. That comes in smaller jugs.

Does anyone know whether DTE Extra Heavy will work as well as DTE BB? I would rather not clutter my garage with another pail if I can help it, but I am not willing to put oil in it unless I know it will make the lathe happy.

RussZHC
03-08-2012, 11:31 PM
Try a search for a cross reference...unless you feel tied to a particular brand, it may help you find something available WHEREVER YOU ARE at the very least it will get you a cross reference in terms of viscosity.

Or you could get together with a few others also in need of similar for their machinery...

Willy
03-08-2012, 11:52 PM
Nothing special about Shell Tellus 220, it's just another quality anti-ware hydraulic oil.
I am somewhat surprised that an ISO 220 oil is recommended, as that translates to an SAE 50 wt. engine oil. Usually lighter weight oils in the 10-30 wt range are used for this application.
However since this what the manufacturer recommends I would go with that.

Edited to add:
Mobile DTE Extra Heavy is an ISO 150 wt. oil, equivalent to an SAE 40 wt.

lakeside53
03-09-2012, 02:13 AM
220 does sound odd... Check around in case they printed it incorrectly in the manual and added a 0. That weight sound more like what you'd use in a separate QC gearbox rather than a headstock, but I'm not familiar with your machine. Call EISEN MACHINERY - Toll Free Phone Number 1-877-626-7285

You might want to read this : http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/victor-1640b-lathe-oils-used-168539/

That thread says the answer is ISO32-68 which is much more like I'd expect.

When you find out the weight, match that to pretty much any AW hydraulic oil and you will be fine. In my engine lathe I use AW68 Napa house brand - about $38 for 5 gallons (with an account), or more by the gallon. But mine takes all 5..

Forrest Addy
03-09-2012, 03:07 AM
Any oil is better than no oil. Is the head stock dry? Something wrong with the existing oil?

Changing oil is a prudent first thing in a motor vehicle but not a priority item in a machine tool - provided the existing oil is up to snuff. Unless the headstock has been drained for some reason or the existing oil is contaminated with water or some other crud or corruption there's no reason why you can't continue to use it until you can track down a gallon of headstock oil meeting maker's specs.

Thing is machine and transmission lubricants aren't motor oil and their service isn't in the crankcase of a hot running internal combustion engine. Machine tool lubricants run in closed cases therefore collect no contaminants and they run at near ambient temperture. Since machine tool gear lubes are not subject to ICE ring blowby, moisture, combustion acids, unburnt fuel, and soot these machine oils last for years - think of the 50,000 mile service life common to ATF, and rear axle oils in a motor vehicle.

FWIW, the headstock, QC box, and apron oil in my lathe is the original fill of 1971. It's passed oil analysis every two years since.

Lathes aint cars

..

stevehgraham
03-09-2012, 11:48 AM
This is a new lathe. I assume it will be shipped dry. I have an inquiry in to Eisen. I've asked just about everyone on the net.

I can go ahead and get Mobil DTE BB, but how do you get rid of three gallons of lathe oil, in a suburb?

lakeside53
03-09-2012, 11:53 AM
Your local NAPA or other autoparts store will take your old or surplus new oil or recycling. If you have extra new oil, just keep it - you will find uses.

Why do you think it's shipped dry?

stevehgraham
03-09-2012, 11:55 AM
Please excuse me. I made an error. This oil is for the apron, not the headstock.

stevehgraham
03-09-2012, 11:58 AM
Actually, I didn't ask whether it was shipped dry, but I had noticed that other lathes were shipped that way, and that they expect buyers to run some oil through them during break-in and dump it.

Thanks for asking. I have passed the question on to the seller.

lakeside53
03-09-2012, 12:01 PM
Apron... That's more like it... MANY choices of industrial gear oils will work.

Does your machine use this same oil for way lube (pumps it from the apron to the ways and screws?) if so, use one of the Vactra series.

stevehgraham
03-09-2012, 12:03 PM
I got piles of Vactra 2. I would much rather use that than something that comes in a vat on a pallet.

lazlo
03-09-2012, 12:08 PM
Nothing special about Shell Tellus 220, it's just another quality anti-ware hydraulic oil.

+1. Shell Tellus is equivalent to the Mobil DTE Named/Numbered series, but like others have noted, hydraulic oils typically go up to ISO 100.


I am somewhat surprised that an ISO 220 oil is recommended, as that translates to an SAE 50 wt. engine oil.

Sounds like they're talking about way oil. But even then, 220 weight way oil is Vactra #4 -- that's the consistency of molasses. Most manual machine tools are looking for Vactra #2 -- ISO 68.

lakeside53
03-09-2012, 12:09 PM
Vactra 2 is ISO 68. IF you really wanted to match the ISO220, you'd need Vactra 4.

Refer back to the PM thread I linked; many use Vacra 2 in their Victor 1640 aprons, as I do on my lathe.

First you need to determine if your apron reservoir is pumped to the ways and lost.

stevehgraham
03-09-2012, 12:10 PM
I think I'm just spazzing out because I have a 4000-pound machine on the way, and I have no idea what I'm doing.

stevehgraham
03-09-2012, 01:59 PM
Heard from the seller. They said to use Vactra 2 in the apron and Mobil DTE Heavy Medium in the gears and headstock. And it ships full. What a relief.

Forrest Addy
03-09-2012, 05:29 PM
Apron, huh? There usualy a worm/gear in the apron, they require a lubricicant suited for heav sliding. Not to scout the maker's reccommendation because I prefer to follow them as to cross referenced equivalents (Mobil products here); but I wonder if a worm/hypoid gear lubricant wouldn't be a good choice? They are available asany parts store or auto center. I use outboard lower unit oil myself. I like the plastic squeeze bottle it comes in.

That said my manual says to use the equivalent of Mobil DTE 10 in all transmissions. The lube reccommendations for the same service are all over the map. Sometimes I wonder: 1 where their lube engineers go to school, 2 whether they use a adrt and a wall chart to select lubricants, 3 why I bother slavishly following lube charts, 4 if anyone back at the factories are talking to their counterparts.

lazlo
03-09-2012, 07:42 PM
Heard from the seller. They said to use Vactra 2 in the apron and Mobil DTE Heavy Medium in the gears and headstock.

That makes a lot more sense :) The ways are probably lubricated from the apron reservoir?

Enco has both the DTE Named Series and Vactra #2 in gallon jugs with free shipping.

stevehgraham
03-23-2012, 07:00 PM
The lathe is here. Yes, the lube comes from inside the apron.

Black_Moons
03-23-2012, 07:36 PM
This is a new lathe. I assume it will be shipped dry. I have an inquiry in to Eisen. I've asked just about everyone on the net.

I can go ahead and get Mobil DTE BB, but how do you get rid of three gallons of lathe oil, in a suburb?

Ugh, my lathe was shipped full of oil. I wish they didn't, it was ugly black oil full of swaff. Never use 'new' Chinese oil!

After I drained the oil I also removed a small handful of casting sand and metal filings.

Then filled it up with fresh oil, Ran the spindle for awhile in all the gears as recommended in both directions, then replaced the oil again without letting anything settle, assuming most of the burrs and such should now be in the oil.

As for the apron, I think I filled mine with way oil. Its not very critical at all, low speed oversized gears. I forget if I bothered to flush the apron, but I did remove a good deal of sand and debris from it before filling it.

stevehgraham
03-23-2012, 07:53 PM
This is one reason I wanted to know what kind of oil I needed. I had read a Grizzly manual, and it basically said to keep replacing the oil until the lathe was done throwing sand and bits of metal. I was afraid I'd have to do the same thing with the Eisen.

Black_Moons
03-23-2012, 08:52 PM
This is one reason I wanted to know what kind of oil I needed. I had read a Grizzly manual, and it basically said to keep replacing the oil until the lathe was done throwing sand and bits of metal. I was afraid I'd have to do the same thing with the Eisen.

Well, the good news is that ANY oil is 1000x better then no oil, And the 'best' oils likely only do a few times better then any old oil you can slap in there, within reason. (IE: some oils will eat brass, Others are just too thin or thick for the application, others foam up, or have detergents to keep stuff in suspension), So in the meantime you can likely use what you can find thats close to the spec while you are wearing it in and it won't cause any excessive wear or damage since the break in period is only a tiny fraction of its life.

Break in/wear in seems rather universal to me. Its that or they would have to deburr and clean every single part before installing it, And then run the gears in at the factory anyway.

That said, I wonder if using motor oil with detergents designed to keep stuff in suspension might actually be better for the break in period of mills, lathes and compressors, if you are going to drain the oil right after extended running to flush debris?

lazlo
03-23-2012, 09:41 PM
Well, the good news is that ANY oil is 1000x better then no oil, And the 'best' oils likely only do a few times better then any old oil you can slap in there, within reason.

The bigger issue is casting sand and swarf. I'd drain everything, degrease, deburr, etc, and refill with quality hydraulic fluid.