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TGTool
03-21-2012, 04:37 PM
I saw in news that Tata in India, who now owns Jaguar/Land Rover, are in negotiations for some manufacturing in China.

The prospect of Lucas electrics manufactured in China positively boggles the mind. :eek: OTOH all you guys who still have containers of that replacement Lucas magic smoke may be on the point of making a killing. :D Unfortunately all mine was gone long ago.

oil mac
03-21-2012, 05:35 PM
Sadly looks to me that more British manufacturing jobs will follow on down the "Yellow Brick Road "to China, Minus the workforce

Thanks a billion Tata & all the others involved:mad:

flylo
03-21-2012, 05:45 PM
:mad: Just like the U S!

oldtiffie
03-21-2012, 05:46 PM
Tata is "big deal - REAL big deal.

For those who may be that way inclined - read this and weep:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_motors#Jaguar_Cars_and_Land_Rover

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_motors

Weston Bye
03-21-2012, 06:00 PM
Where i work, we make a part for Land Rover. Made in the USA - for now.

DICKEYBIRD
03-21-2012, 06:32 PM
If memory serves, LR quit using Lucas way back when BMW bought 'em out. For sure no Lucas was used after Ford had owned 'em for a while. Jag quit when Ford bought them in the 90's.

Weston, I guess the part you guys make goes back to the Ford days? Of course, even though they're owned by Tata now, there's a lotof Ford involvement.

Mark McGrath
03-21-2012, 06:49 PM
Tata made a billion pound profit on turnover of ten billion with Jaguar/Land Rover last year which is a serious amount of money more than anyone else has made out of them in a lot of years.
Tata are a true multinational in a lot of fields and as such will always move manufacturing to where it`s most economical.I believe the Land Rover Defender production will be going overseas as it will no longer be able to be sold in Europe due to more stringent laws coming in.

Toolguy
03-21-2012, 06:58 PM
Over here Ta Ta means goodbye.:( I may not be getting that new 12 cylinder Jag after all!:rolleyes:

uncle pete
03-21-2012, 07:01 PM
UUHH!!!
Just to be 100% correct. If LUCAS was to be made in China, It would be then pronounced RUCAS :D

So the prince of darkness company will mate with the queen of shoddy? There goes the dream for buying a Jag when my lotto ship comes in.:rolleyes:

Pete

gcude
03-21-2012, 07:08 PM
UUHH!!!
Just to be 100% correct. If LUCAS was to be made in China, It would be then pronounced RUCAS :D

So the prince of darkness company will mate with the queen of shoddy? There goes the dream for buying a Jag when my lotto ship comes in.:rolleyes:

Pete

Or as the Jetson's dog Astro would say, "Ruh-Roh!"

lazlo
03-21-2012, 07:13 PM
Sadly looks to me that more British manufacturing jobs will follow on down the "Yellow Brick Road "to China, Minus the workforce

That happened a long time ago.

oldtiffie
03-21-2012, 07:23 PM
UUHH!!!
Just to be 100% correct. If LUCAS was to be made in China, It would be then pronounced RUCAS :D

So the prince of darkness company will mate with the queen of shoddy? There goes the dream for buying a Jag when my lotto ship comes in.:rolleyes:

Pete

As I recall, Jaguar traded on its name for quite a while when its quality was deteriorating while UK-owned.

Given all the owners "Jaguar" has had it seems that its quality was improved by later owners.

Despite the concerns and jeers and sneers by some it seems that it might be in good hands albeit "Indian".

macona
03-21-2012, 07:24 PM
UUHH!!!
Just to be 100% correct. If LUCAS was to be made in China, It would be then pronounced RUCAS :D

So the prince of darkness company will mate with the queen of shoddy? There goes the dream for buying a Jag when my lotto ship comes in.:rolleyes:

Pete

You are thinking of Japan. There are L equivalents in the chinese language.

crusty
03-21-2012, 07:46 PM
Couldn't be any worse than the garbage made in U.K.!

Back in the late 70's & 80's I worked at a Jaguar specialist & ANYTHING that had "Lucas" on it failed regularly. Must have nearly caused the demise of Jaguar.

Lucas even got hold of Bosch fuel injection, made it under license & managed to get rid of any German reliability.

Ask anyone with an early XJ-S v12 about the Lucas Ignition/Injection system!

Living in New Zealand meant that getting parts via Jaguar took months & via Lucas only 3 to 4 weeks.

Mind you Lucas contributed to my wages for 10 years!:D

uncle pete
03-21-2012, 08:37 PM
Macona,
LOL, Ok you are right.

Pete

John Stevenson
03-21-2012, 09:00 PM
I can't understand you guys bashing Lucas.
Don't you realise that Lucas was split off two ways aerospace and automotive.

Aerospace is part of Airbus, the bit that's making money and automotive was sold off to the Americans. :D

So you now own the prince of darkness. :rolleyes:

lazlo
03-21-2012, 09:05 PM
As I recall, Jaguar traded on its name for quite a while when its quality was deteriorating while UK-owned.

Jaguar was sold to those pesky Americans you hate so much :) If it makes you feel any better 'Tiff, Ford lost money on Jaguar all 10 years it owned it.

sasquatch
03-21-2012, 09:08 PM
That Tata "AIR MOTOR" car that they are experimenting with is pretty impressive!!

Could be a good thing in some countries if they can get the bugs out.

lakeside53
03-21-2012, 09:23 PM
... the bit that's making money and automotive was sold off to the Americans. :D




Something I don't understand... Lucas was born on a low wind-swept island in the North Atlantic (AKA "England"). How is is that the ignition doesn't work for beans when it's windy and wet?

lazlo
03-21-2012, 09:29 PM
Lucas was born on a low wind-swept island in the North Atlantic (AKA "England"). How is is that the ignition doesn't work for beans when it's windly and wet?

Well the Jacquar was never exactly known for mechanical reliability either. Why rock the boat? :p

John Stevenson
03-21-2012, 09:29 PM
Probably the wrong kind of wet ? :rolleyes:

lakeside53
03-21-2012, 09:49 PM
Probably the wrong kind of wet ? :rolleyes:



Wait.... I think I last used the "lucas excuse" when I was 17... lot's of wet, got told to go home, but that dang 52 Ford Prefect just wouldn't start. lol...

oldtiffie
03-21-2012, 11:07 PM
You wouldn't have done any better in an "Anglia" (Ford) - same period.

oldtiffie
03-21-2012, 11:15 PM
Originally Posted by oldtiffie

As I recall, Jaguar traded on its name for quite a while when its quality was deteriorating while UK-owned.


Jaguar was sold to those pesky Americans you hate so much :) If it makes you feel any better 'Tiff, Ford lost money on Jaguar all 10 years it owned it.

Lazlo,

I do wish you'd stop incorrectly quoting me or putting words into my mouth (I am quite capable of that as I guess you've noticed).

I don't hate or really dislike any people - American included - as I quite admire them - mostly.

But I do dislike the way some go beyond dislike for other peoples, countries and cultures and it seems that most of them (here at least) are American.

Note that I said "dislike" and not "hate" and that those that are in those categories are in the minority.

lazlo
03-22-2012, 12:06 AM
I do wish you'd stop incorrectly quoting me or putting words into my mouth
I don't hate or really dislike any people - American included - as I quite admire them - mostly.

that may be the nub of the matter - "tight-ar$ed" 'mericans who want something (everything?) for nothing.

You're absolutely right 'Tiff -- you're more than capable of putting your foot in your mouth all by yourself ;)

mike4
03-22-2012, 03:31 AM
As long as TaTa dont subcontract to the people who make the GreatWall vehicles , they have a problem with bits falling of if driven on rough roadsor minesites from a few reports .
I have noticed on these forums , there will always be someone who likes to stir the pot and also people who are fitted with blinkers when it comes to some subjects.
Thats the world we live in , harden up and get over it .
Michael

Peter S
03-22-2012, 08:29 AM
As long as TaTa dont subcontract to the people who make the GreatWall vehicles , they have a problem with bits falling of if driven on rough roadsor minesites from a few reports. Michael

Michael, that reminds me, I saw my first TATA ute in Aussie 10(?) years ago? Pretty close in appearance to Jap utes of the time. I wonder how that worked out (they didn't make it to NZ).

Great Wall utes have appeared here, I met a guy who has one, he swears it uses all Holden (or was it Ford) previous model running gear, same part numbers he reckons....

fjk
03-22-2012, 08:53 AM
So the prince of darkness company will mate with the queen of shoddy? There goes the dream for buying a Jag when my lotto ship comes in.:rolleyes:


By a vintage XKE
Then you'd have honest, English-made, Lucas Electrics
and maybe, if you're real lucky, Zenith Stromberg carbs

:eek:

boslab
03-22-2012, 10:35 AM
Well, being employed by them [TATA], i have to say that at first i was as cynical as possible, they have proved me wrong on every criticism i had, if they had not taken over CORUS, Land Rover/jaguar i have to say for the m,ost part these companies would now have been asset stripped and dumped., At the steelplant i work they are spending money on new blast furnaces [No 4 being built at the moment], rebuilding a burnt out pickle line at Newport which was cheaper to close but they did not want to lay men off!, i'm serious, i could not beleive it, the guys who worked there were carted up the road to Port Talbot and given jobs to do there untill the line was rebuilt, at no loss of pay!, even though they were working days instead of shifts which is normally 30% less money.
Guys like myself who got a bit burnt out working in the heavy production end are given jobs they can manage, with no loss of earnings!, even if they are day jobs, provided you have been at the heavy end some time [25yrs for me lol].
The way they treat employees is very good to say the least. [did you know they do loads for charity?, like give away free ambulances, all the ones in mumbai were donated, they also build schools etc.
Our Budget for no 4 blast is 185 million, but we will exceed that as we have just built a load of infrastructure that was old.
In the Talks that i have been at China is AS WELL AS, not instead of, obveously there will be changes but the manning is set to increase not decrease and productivity need to increase not decrease, hence adding furnaces, another rolling mill is in the wind too ive been told [men with theodolites everywhere]
I will be suprised if they throw away the billions they have invested before it makes any return.
TATA desire to be the biggest steel producer in the world, i think they will get there too if the managements attitude has anything to do with it.
It is unusual for me to stick up for my employer but to be honest they have treated me a lot better than the previous Dutch led pile [who have mostly disappeared thankfully , as the couldent organise a piss up in a brewery]
all the best
Mark

TGTool
03-22-2012, 11:00 AM
Mark,

Thanks for your insight and experience. I don't have the detail you have on Tata, no doubt, but just from a distance I've got a great deal of respect for what they've been able to do in India. You can't build up a corporation to the size they have without having a great deal on the ball. To be perfectly honest I don't expect any real problems with the China production proposition either. Both the Indians and the Chinese are pragmatic enough to make it work well if other things don't intrude.

My only thought at the outset was some humor at the juxtaposition of Lucas bashing and China manufacturing bashing - the prospect for the worst of both worlds.

If in fact the Chinese can do quality manufacturing as some avow, and they can do it at competitive rates it would be interesting at least to see a quality Jaguar build appear back in the UK at an affordable price. Just another opportunity for more pissing and moaning from a lot of quarters.

lazlo
03-22-2012, 12:04 PM
TATA desire to be the biggest steel producer in the world, i think they will get there too if the managements attitude has anything to do with it.

Ironically, TATA produced the steel for the pipe in the existing Keystone pipeline, and will probably manufacture the steel for the Keystone XL pipeline, if it's approved.

US senator asks TransCanada to avoid Indian steel in pipeline (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:iV-iD-OfJV4J:www.thehindubusinessline.com/industry-and-economy/article2953761.ece%3Fhomepage%3Dtrue%26ref%3Dwl_ho me+&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

WASHINGTON, MARCH 2:
TransCanada has been asked by yet another top US Senator not to use steel made in other countries, including India, in the construction of the controversial, multi-billion Keystone XL pipeline.

“In the past, TransCanada has chosen to buy their steel from India. When it comes to the Keystone Pipeline, the steel should be stamped with ‘made in America’,” Senator Tom Casey said.

oldtiffie
03-22-2012, 03:22 PM
I would have thought that a project of that magnitude and all its component parts would have sought - and it seems was granted - Government Approval both in Canada and the USA.

If that is the case, is that US Senator just "grand-standing"?

I seem to recall - a while ago - that neither Canada nor the USA had the facilities to roll those pipes.

Putting that aside, would there not be a lot of USA and Canadian "employment" once the installation project gets under way?

oil mac
03-22-2012, 05:12 PM
Nowadays in this wonderful world, One does not know who to trust It seems to me that gone are the days of the old traditional entrepenuers, who built up home grown factories and ran them with some commitment to the local workforce O.K. they made sure they did damned well for themselves in the process

Generally speaking along comes foreign firms and by and large it is bad news all round some two or three years ago in Scotland, the Indians bought over Ayr Stamping &Engineering Co - Neptune Stamp works A long established firm, formally owned by a family, Then G.K.N.& then asset stripped and off to India, I cannot say if it was Tata or another Indian firm But this firm had one of the largest drop stamp hammers in the world, A big American Chambersburg.

Back to my kneck of the woods! we havew a large steelmill, capable of rolling the broadest steel plate in the world now owned by Tata, It previously was a Colvilles concern, Then stuffed up by British Steel Corporation, a corporation who could
A) keep their furnaces suplied full tilt, by cutting up their own plant, or
B) exceed tonnage quotas by scrapping their own plant and sending it overthe seas to China ( I think i feel a song coming on!:mad:) Hence not a lot of British steel works left in this country

However back to Tata , recently, good credit to the company they formed a consortium to quote for manufacturing and fabrication of a large major new bridge to be built over the Forth in Scotland This would have kept the works really in clover for some years, They also seem to treat the workers a lot better than British Steel ever did in this works.

Along comes the Scottish parliament who grant the contract to China , Spain & Poland, Too bad about the Scottish jobs, Common market rules must be obeyed is the plaintif & politically correct cry ESpecially as the leader Salmond Who, seems to me to be the "Trade legation officer" for China etc, Never mind Salmond organised two damned Pandas for the zoo from China On Loan , & they cost an exhorbitant sum to keep for a specific number of years-- Seems a good deal dont you all think???????

Who do you trust?

saltmine
03-22-2012, 05:20 PM
Sometimes I wonder if Joseph Lucas was even born in England. I think his introduction into making electrical components was either political or the result of falling into a rather large peat bog. (both of which seem to be plentiful in England.)

"The Prince of Darkness" was introduced to me one night on a dark Southern California back-road. Astride a Triumph motorcycle of questionable vintage. The Zeiner diode clamped under the headlamp chose this minute to vibrate loose (vibration is something that Triumph had cases of, so they included a lot of it with each bike they built). Quick as a flash, all of the lights, without the diode to absorb excess voltage from the generator, flashed, like flashbulbs. And....there I was roaring down a two-lane secondary road, seeing purple spots before my eyes, in pitch darkness.
Somehow, I managed to slow the bike, and get it off the road, without damaging it or myself. The remainder of the ride was quite slow, with me squinting to see the edges of the road.

I had a Renault which had "improved" electrical components, by Lucas.
The improvement was an upgrade from Le Rhone electrical components which were manufactured by Joseph Lucas' family "black sheep" Le Rhone.
Quite an improvement, I might add.

I also once owned a very pleasant sports car (yes, back in the day when "sports cars" only had two seats and may or may not have had doors)
made by Triumph. And yes, Lucas was in attendance. My huge Irish Setter thought it was her's....I didn't argue. It was one of the nicer cars I owned, a 1964 Triumph TR-4. But, somebody must have liked it more than I did....Because one morning I walked out to it's parking space, and it was gone. Never recovered....I still suspect it was the Irish Setter.

oldtiffie
03-22-2012, 07:38 PM
Ring the "Prince of Darkness" and complain.

I think his number is: 666

Google it:

http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&sugexp=frgbld&gs_nf=1&cp=3&gs_id=c&xhr=t&q=666&pf=p&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&oq=666&aq=&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=&pbx=1&rlz=1W1IRFC_enAU360&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=56afa242754894c9&biw=1280&bih=523

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_of_Darkness