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John Stevenson
04-02-2012, 05:38 PM
I have a dilemma, shortly I am getting rid of my big TOS lathe in a downsizing exercise.
It's a big brute and not suitable for home shop use over here, in US parlance it's a 22" x 84" and so there is a limited market.

Searching Ebay UK for similar machines of this age comes up with an average value of £500, around $760.

This machine weighs about 2 1/2 tonne and with scrap at £175 - £180 per tonne that's £450 add to this I have a spare headstock, gearbox, apron and screw cutting box that I bought off Tim leach when he scrapped a similar lathe, so that's probably another £100

Scrapyard will also collect.

Plus I can keep the chucks, two 3 jaws and two 4 jaws, two faceplates, two steadies and a big Dickson quick change toolpost with about 10 - 12 holders. That lot would probably fetch £400.

So as a working machine about £500 as scrap and bits £950

Anyone else seeing this as no contest ?

aboard_epsilon
04-02-2012, 05:48 PM
you clean it up ..and put pictures down the listing in ebay instead of in a grotty box in the corner...relaying 800 pixel ones from photobucket

you may well get the right price .

all the best.mark

flylo
04-02-2012, 06:03 PM
I hate to scrap a good working machine. Just think what it would cost to relace it new & what it can do. That's why I bought the Boye & Emmes 22x72 Put it on your Ebay for double scrap price as a starting price with 1 chuck. See if it sells & if so offer the buyer a fair price on the rest. I think it will sell.

Mark McGrath
04-02-2012, 06:10 PM
It`s a fact of life John.I`m scrapping immaculate power presses because I`m getting £240/tonne collected and they weigh 7-8 tonne each.
I would struggle to get £500 selling them as there`s no demand for them now the high volume work has gone overseas.
The other way around,a few years back I could buy non working cnc`s at 5-8 tonne weight for £5-600,now it`s £2000.
Grit your teeth and scrap it,or waste your time with tyre kickers and non paying dreamers.Easy choice.

sasquatch
04-02-2012, 06:21 PM
I heartily disagree with just scrapping it.

Yeah,, i know, and understand -"What the heck do you do with it then?"

Store it somewere? With the economy in the dumps in many places it's sad that some small shop would be thrilled to grab this up at scrap price or better, but those small shops are slowly disappearing, and it will be some time before any manufacturing shop starts up,, IF it ever does!!

I,ve heard this is getting to be a problem in other areas also, with larger machines. a very sad situation and a sign of our changing times.

TGTool
04-02-2012, 06:52 PM
Put it on the China Ebay. If the equipment they have to work with is as bad as all the badmouthing on the forums they ought to be delighted to get a machine of this "old iron" quality. And shipping is easy. Since all of the western countries are importing way more from China than they're exporting, there ought to be tons of cargo containers going back empty to China and you could toss a crew a few pounds and a couple of cases of good English beer and the problem's solved. :cool:

gwilson
04-02-2012, 06:55 PM
A Tos is a good lathe. The trouble is,the larger lathes are just hard to sell. They are too big and heavy for home shop users,and many such would be afraid of trying to deal with moving the weight of that lathe.

I'd buy it if it were close by in the USA,but I'm used to moving heavy machinery,and I have room for it.

Hopefully you will be able to sell it. But,probably it will best be sold to a professional machine shop.(Unless they ALL have gone CNC.) There are smaller job shops that still have need of manual lathes.

oldtiffie
04-02-2012, 07:01 PM
I'm not so sure about that.

Some "small shops" will want it for virtually nil. If that is at or close to the market rate - why bother - its not only pretty well giving it away but any effort etc. that you put in (if costed at a realistic hourly rate) means that you are almost standing a net loss and virtually paying him to take it away.

Machines and tools are only commodities are are scrap and iron ore.

You either keep it and either use it or clutter up your shop with little or no room for more or you just write it down to zero or for whatever the scrapper will give you. It will only be a phone call to the scrapper and it might all be gone in a day or so with minimum effort and disruption and either at no cost or perhaps a small profit.

Why would you - or should I? - do it any other way?

I don't see that others opinions should matter in what is a personal and business matter on how anyone else disposes of tools etc.

Some seem to think that they have a "moral right" to at least first option/refusal and that I or anyone else should be under a moral right to give them that right or privelege.

No way.

There will never be a "car boot" or "garage" sale here either for pretty much the same reasons.

Mcgyver
04-02-2012, 07:13 PM
machinery dealers around here report selling big manual lathes to india....and they have to compete with scrap prices on everything they buy....no idea what your market is like but might be worth some calls

rockrat
04-02-2012, 07:53 PM
Personally, I would not scrap a machine that is working. Once these machines go to scrap, they are gone.

If I scrap a machine,
1) I will never see it again.
2) It will no longer do any work.
3) General capacity for the area drops, jobs go to another area.


If I sell a machine,
1) I make a contact.
2) I can send work to the machine if needed (depending).
3) Just maybe I put another guy to work.

If needed, sell it to another user at scrap rate. Tell them up front it is for sale at scrap rate. Back down to the ebay price if needed. Add the additional parts as it suits you.

Also, around here, the ebay price is not necessarily the going rate. If someone tells me a price and note that it is based on ebay sales, I tell them to go sell it on ebay. There are all sorts of extra costs for selling things on ebay. Not to mention the skill needed to post the sale, field the questions, meet the visitors wanting to see the item etc. There is extra cost and I try to keep it in mind.

rock~

RussZHC
04-02-2012, 08:40 PM
EBay those major size extras until it comes exactly time to scrap the complete machine, if they sell great, if not scrap as well. Keep the other bits you listed, minimize hassle.

dalee100
04-02-2012, 09:04 PM
Tiffie, you have a VERY negative attitude towards just about anything,,, in my opinion!!:confused:

It's just a machine. And not a particularly desirable or valuable one either judging by actual prices paid under current market conditions.

If you have the time and energy, parting it out may bring the best return on sale. No time or energy to do that, the breakers it is. There is no reason to attach sentiment to a machine. You can get them anywhere, anytime.

dalee

flylo
04-02-2012, 09:06 PM
Same way here, I just have to beat the scapper to it. It's a shame too. These tools made our country great & now if it's too big for a small garage or not CNC no one wants it. Like killing the watchdog cause he's old. No regard for the fine job he's done.
Why not find a useful place for it like a railroad club. I bet if you advertised someone needs it for cash, trade or donation (you'll be their hero) just don't scap it. What would it cost new now if you bought one of that quality? Hell I'll buy it as long as you'll deliver it free.

flylo
04-02-2012, 09:38 PM
Look at what a TOS goes for in the US on Ebay. A 16x60 is $9950/obo. & they go much higher. I don't know the condition of yours nut the $9950 didn't look great.

J Tiers
04-02-2012, 09:43 PM
Sentiment be hanged.......

A machine is a means of livelihood for someone. Maybe not you, but someone. Buying it may be just what they need to do. I know a couple companies here that need such a machine.... but are not going to buy new, at least not yet.

At some point, the lack of machinery like that will be a negative influence on the general economy. So selling instead of deciding up front that "nobody would buy it anyhow" has at least a societal benefit.

So, there are decent overall economic reasons for selling, if it is saleable. It may not produce the absolute maximum last penny of profit for you, but.... it depends on if you NEED that last penny worse than the next guy. Obviously if it is NOT saleable, then the discussion is over.

so.....

You can straight up say "Everyone else can go stuff it, I am gonna get MINE", and go for the absolute maximum money return to you, regardless. Just like Mitt Romney, Andy Redleaf, and the rest of those 1% types.

Nothing *illegal* about that. It's yours, you can do whatever.

Or you can give it a shot at a sale first, and if no takers after an honest attempt, proceed on your way to maximize return from the bones.

flylo
04-02-2012, 10:05 PM
I'm not saying sell it here. All I'm saying is try your best to sell it & not scap it. Keep it in use as someone must need it. After you've given it your best try then scrap it but only if you absolutly have to. Enough said as it your machine & this is just my opinion. Thanks! Eric

Mike Burdick
04-02-2012, 10:06 PM
John it's like this....

If you gotta get rid of the kittens, don't go and tell the kids how you're gonna do it!

sasquatch
04-02-2012, 10:15 PM
John ,, i think it was Flylo who suggested possibly donating it to a railway club,, what i,m wondering,, is if you donate it to say a group like that, (a non profit group), can you get an income tax ?? deduction i think it is called,, (Could be the wrong term,) as here in Canada certain items can be done that way. ? Just a thought.

toag
04-02-2012, 11:47 PM
So to recap...
your machine scrap if you want (i'd keep the steady, chucks toolpost though)
karma may come back on you though. I am all for keeping it, its not eating much, and you can always pile **** on top of it like everyone else does.


anyone want to tell me what a sticky-beak is, or should i not ask.

Rosco-P
04-03-2012, 12:20 AM
anyone want to tell me what a sticky-beak is, or should i not ask.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stickybeak

The Artful Bodger
04-03-2012, 12:55 AM
It is a shame to see a good machine go for scrap so how about some lateral thinking about who would like a big(ish) lathe?

OK, all those old chaps around your country who run steam engine and railway museums etc. Offer your lathe to them at 'come and get it' plus scrap price. Will you get any takers? I very much doubt it so call the scrap man unless you really want to make a sacrifice in a good cause. Keep the bits that might be useful, if it was me I would be keeping in addition to the accessories you listed, such things as change wheels, handles, handwheels etc (but then I am a bit of a hoarder).

.RC.
04-03-2012, 02:17 AM
I have a dilemma, shortly I am getting rid of my big TOS lathe in a downsizing exercise.
It's a big brute and not suitable for home shop use over here, in US parlance it's a 22" x 84" and so there is a limited market.



What condition is it in?




I do think it a bit rich for some to at least suggest how John Stevenson should dispose of his lathe. Its his decision and his alone after all.



Well he did ask for suggestions...

dp
04-03-2012, 02:31 AM
There is a simple economic reality here. The scrappers are more interested in the iron than the machinists are in the machine. There is also the very real possibility that there are more available machines than the market will bear, hence the low interest/price.

It isn't like you are offering a Stradivarius violin to a collector vs a chip wood scrapper.

Scrap it.

.RC.
04-03-2012, 02:57 AM
There is a simple economic reality here. The scrappers are more interested in the iron than the machinists are in the machine.

You do not know that until you try to sell it...And we do not know what condition it is in... It might be mint condition.... Might also be clapped out...

dp
04-03-2012, 03:13 AM
You do not know that until you try to sell it...And we do not know what condition it is in... It might be mint condition.... Might also be clapped out...

In the case of this specific machine John's done the legwork to get two evaluations. No contest.

Timleech
04-03-2012, 06:03 AM
Mark McGrath's mate Alec at Budget Machinery was, I think, offering to buy TOS lathes for rebuilding some months ago. No mention of it on his site now, but it might be worth a call in case he wants to buy some of the bits.

I scrapped mine because the bed was badly worn, which gave me real problems when using a long boring bar as I sometimes do for propeller shaft bearings which can be up to 13" long. I'd found what I thought would be a better lathe (it wasn't), & the easiest way to get the TOS out of my place was in bits.
I did ask a couple of dealers at the time but no interest.

If any of you sentimentalists wants a real project, I've got a 1950s 17" DSG waiting to go for scrap ;) (Actually waiting for me to find time to dismantle it).

Tim

David Powell
04-03-2012, 06:52 AM
My best customer decided to downsize, he rang me and offered me the mill I used to use in his plant( A Spanish made Bridgeport on steroids ) I have no where for one so asked around my friends, a railway group took it, he got a write off for less than scrap price. They arrived with an inadequate trailer and he had to help with loading and even beefing up the trailer, before it could leave. Then they damaged the mill unloading it!! I guess the next machine going out goes to scrap without any hesitation. regards David Powell.

small.planes
04-03-2012, 07:44 AM
Which ever way it leaves dont forget to let east midlands airport know, so they can re calibrate their magic direction gear. :D

And try to coordinate with Tim moving the DSG, so the country doesn't tip unduly :D ;)

Dave

gwilson
04-03-2012, 08:51 AM
So why did John mention his lathe if he didn't want comments and opinions? oldtiffie,you act as if you have no soul,and are proud of it.

I hope my machines find their way into the hands of another person who will use them for many years. My wife has too much sense to scrap them.

Black Forest
04-03-2012, 09:11 AM
There is only one reason Sir John started this thread. He wanted a good laugh and I am sure he is getting one.

fjk
04-03-2012, 09:15 AM
So as a working machine about £500 as scrap and bits £950

Anyone else seeing this as no contest ?

Yes, it's a contest :-)

1 how important is it to you to make the space available now?
2 how important is the £450 to you? (yes, money is always
important, and £450 is a fair pile --- but the question to
ask yourself is how life would be different if you did/did-not
have it...)
3 how well would you sleep at night knowing the machine was
melted down vs put back into use someplace?

If it was me (and I'll admit, this is a theoretical exercise)
I'd try and find a good home for it for as long as I could until
either the space or the money became absolutely critical.

I'd also try to be a bit creative in finding a new home.
Museum? School or university (maybe one that has a machining
program, but would like to add a larger lathe it can't afford or
to replace an older, worse-condition, one)? Maybe a restoration
group (railway or military gear)? Here in the US we have "workshop
cooperatives" --- people who don't have room for home shops (or room
for the big stuff) get together, rent some industrial space, and put
in big machines; if you have such a thing over there, they might
like a big lathe - esp if the price is nice.

Frank

Weston Bye
04-03-2012, 10:03 AM
Consider donating to a (fill in a function here) group? It's easy to be generous with other people's money. Sir John has explored the business case for sell/scrap, and it boils down to money. Some of you might think he has enough money, so he should sacrifice his intrest in the lathe for the general welfare of the machining hobby and machines in general.

I see it as a shame when a lathe or steamshovel or locomotive is scrapped - but only for a little while. The problem is that we can afford only so many museums. Such relics cost somebody something to house, restore, preserve, etc. Seems the ones calling the loudest for preservation are usually the ones who are the least in position to actually do it. If noboby wants to ante up at least the scrap value, too bad.

camdigger
04-03-2012, 11:08 AM
...... Seems the ones calling the loudest for preservation are usually the ones who are the least in position to actually do it. If noboby wants to ante up at least the scrap value, too bad........

x2

I have been sickened by examples of donated equipment in charitable museums seemingly deliberately neglected as the volunteers charged with its' care are not interested in it and seem to resent having to look after it while the museum is not allowed by the terms of the donations to resell to people begging to buy it.

Some examples I could cite border on ridiculous.

loply
04-03-2012, 11:22 AM
Chop the bed in half, sell one half as a tool room lathe and the other half as two anvils.

Should be worth more than scrap that way.

Mark McGrath
04-03-2012, 11:36 AM
I wonder how quickly the ones suggesting John forgets about how much he will lose by selling or giving the machine away to a user would donate the same amount to charity if John did.
It`s very easy to give other people`s money away.
John`s in business and it seems a few people here do not understand the meaning of that.
Another point to bear in mind is that John mentioned in the original post that he had spares he got from Tim when he scrapped his machine.I would think if Tim scrapped his there was not a chance of it being worth more as a runner as Tim is slightly careful with his pennies.
Might even have some Scottish blood in him. :D

garagemark
04-03-2012, 02:11 PM
A lot of interesting opinions on this one, and a few not so interesting opinions. So what the hey, I'll add yet another.

Sir John makes his living with the tools in his building. The machine in question is not making money in his shop; it is simply a piece of iron that is in the way of him making money. It is ludicrous to think he should just shove it in the corner and pile stuff on it. He has determined that it is not going to make him any more money. So, regardless of how he does it... it needs to go.

Then we have the starry eyed nostalgia folks who think it's sacrilegious to part with any old time iron. They just won't ever make them like that anymore; everything these days is junk. But, heaven forbid, if there is just no other way, the old war horse should only go to a loving home who will feed it and polish it and house it until it finally does expire of old age.

Now, if I were making my living by putting projects out the door, and I had no need for a machine, and it would be much effort to find a loving caring home for it, I'd have called the scrappers long ago, with or without your blessing. I can't see wasting the energy to find it a good home when I could be feeding myself with real work money.

Over the years, because of my love of old steam, I have talked to many old locomotive engineers and firemen and, almost without fail, 100% of them told me that they are glad the old hot, dirty, smelly, cantankerous and finicky machines are all gone. But today, we as enthusiasts long for the "good old days" of fire breathing, smoke belching, steel pounding behemoths.

It's all about perspective and what we hold dear, and why, and this thread is a perfect example; It's really just an old piece of cast iron that is in the way of progress... unless you are a starry eyed old iron enthusiast.

This post may put me in the "oldtiffie" class, but if that's the case then so be it. Sometimes a person simply should be a realist. Maybe just not ALL the time.

Mark

Mcgyver
04-03-2012, 03:04 PM
My best customer decided to downsize, he rang me and offered me the mill I used to use in his plant( A Spanish made Bridgeport on steroids ) I have no where for one so asked around my friends, a railway group took it, he got a write off for less than scrap price. They arrived with an inadequate trailer and he had to help with loading and even beefing up the trailer, before it could leave. Then they damaged the mill unloading it!! I guess the next machine going out goes to scrap without any hesitation. regards David Powell.

The problem David is the asking price was too low. Hence anyone, however ill prepared or unwilling to spend to do it properly can say "I'll take it".

While no guarantee, having to pay 1500 or whatever acts as a a filter on how seriously the acquirer takes the process, vs them just acting because its free. If for some imaginary accounting reason (there isn't a good or real one) the company doesn't want the money Don't accept the 1500 when they show or give it to charity.

thats got to be the same firm that made the Doall's? beautiful solid mills

ptjw7uk
04-03-2012, 03:29 PM
I notice that John hasnt been back, stirred the water and left for work!

Mind you I expect hes really only after the floor space, hes not seen any for years!

Peter

martym
04-03-2012, 04:20 PM
I always see lots of machine tools scrapped at metal recycle yard near where I live. Some of the machines look better than mine. :(

oldtiffie
04-03-2012, 06:10 PM
My guess is that this thread is indicative or symptomatic of many here who - whether "in business" or "just a HSM-er" will have to face the situation or dilemna that John faced - redundant or obsolete machines that are taking up valuable workspace that if not need for "money" is needed for new or better or other machines.

Many of those machines will be similar to John's and were either bought (or given?) for sentimental reasons to repair, restore or "do up" which was really never going to happen and never will if for no other reason than that the owner might be over-whelmed by the task as he realised what it involved and as he got older and realised that he would never use it. The machine in effect became a mill-stone around his neck, required a lot of floor space if he even only partially dismantled it and a money pit if he ever got serious about it.

Many will not be as fortunate as John Stevenson as they may have to dismantle the machine and physically take it to the scrapper - if he will take it - or pay the scrapper to do it.

Many will not have the physical energy to lift large chucks and rotary tables etc. and may need to either make or buy some quite large and expensive lifting gear etc.

Many too will find too hot/cold shops a burden both physically and finacially and less able or likely to use them to the extent that eventually the shop and at least some of the machines in it may not be used much if used at all over time.

If or when that happens they may well have to pay some-one else to dismantle it and take it away.

It may be even sooner if for what ever reason you have to "move house".

In retospect, I think that John Stevenson got it exactly right in all respects and it is a credit to him to have "bitten the bullet" as he did when he did.

In case any one missed or ignored it, here are the first two sentences of John Stevenson's opening OP in this thread:


I have a dilemma, shortly I am getting rid of my big TOS lathe in a downsizing exercise.

It's a big brute and not suitable for home shop use over here, in US parlance it's a 22" x 84" and so there is a limited market.

.................................................. .



Some may need to consider if they are or may be or will be in John's position regarding that lathe regarding some of their own machines in the not too distant future.

John Stevenson
04-03-2012, 06:14 PM
Sorry lads, been a bit held up and my desktop computer is having a new MB fitted.

Few answers, first off the most important bit is getting rid to get the space. I don't like working this big TOS because it attracts the wrong type of work, rotors that weigh literally 1 tonne when I can earn the same money doing 3 or 4 rotors that fit in your hands.

It's only because this lathe is so big that it's not a viable machine, if this had been something like a Colchester this post would not be taking place.

The money isn't that important it was more to point out the disparity of selling one as opposed to scrapping one.

No way will I offer this to any club or society, I have had dealings with these before and to be honest it's not worth the hassle of dealing with these people, want it for free and Oh can you deliver it, no please.

The room this machine takes up could easily be replaced with a bench with 3 or 4 small benchtop CNC's that can turn out small parts all day with hardly any effort.

Called round the scrap yard yesterday to pick some tubing up and the guy there was going down a local auction catalogue, tick, tick, tick, tick.
I looked over and he was ticking 4 draw filing cabinets. I asked him how many he wanted.
His reply was as many as possible, at the moment they are fetching £2.00 each for tatty cabinets but they will weigh in for £8.00.
He reckons that if he could get them all it would be well worth sending a truck out for them and that would earn a drivers wages for the week.

gwilson
04-03-2012, 06:47 PM
Not a question of being "old iron". Just a question of is it still capable of doing decent work. If it is,I hate to see a machine scrapped.

Years ago I saw a real old but very nice horizontal universal mill in a guy's shop. It was likely late 19th. or early 20th. C.. It was for overhead drive,but did not appear to be worn out at all. It wasn't a huge machine,but had about a 10" x 54" table.

Believe it or not,Jesus had told the guy to get rid of his machines(except for the 9" South Bend lathe that had been on the USS United States.)

His wife and kid had left him,and he was trying to get right with them and God,too!

I simply had no room for the milling machine. A few weeks later,I saw pieces of it down at the junk yard. Too bad. It was still a useful machine.

sasquatch
04-03-2012, 06:50 PM
Good chance someone else here has been getting messages from god!!:rolleyes:

oldtiffie
04-03-2012, 07:05 PM
That's a very good "wake up call" GW.

Many here are getting to the age and stage where medical and family "advice" (ultimatums?) will give the HSM-er some pretty stark and drastic choices as regards using the shop for long hours - or at all - and heavy lifting will or maybe all but ruled out.

My guess is that the median age/demographic here is slowly (?) creeping upward and many of those that "fall off the twig" at the upper age groups are not and will not be replaced entirely by any of the younger age groups.

There is going to be (is??) a lot of "good stuff" lying idle or scheduled for the scrapper in the near future.

oldtiffie
04-03-2012, 08:05 PM
Originally Posted by David Powell

My best customer decided to downsize, he rang me and offered me the mill I used to use in his plant( A Spanish made Bridgeport on steroids ) I have no where for one so asked around my friends, a railway group took it, he got a write off for less than scrap price. They arrived with an inadequate trailer and he had to help with loading and even beefing up the trailer, before it could leave. Then they damaged the mill unloading it!! I guess the next machine going out goes to scrap without any hesitation. regards David Powell.


The problem David is the asking price was too low. Hence anyone, however ill prepared or unwilling to spend to do it properly can say "I'll take it".

While no guarantee, having to pay 1500 or whatever acts as a a filter on how seriously the acquirer takes the process, vs them just acting because its free. If for some imaginary accounting reason (there isn't a good or real one) the company doesn't want the money Don't accept the 1500 when they show or give it to charity.

thats got to be the same firm that made the Doall's? beautiful solid mills

I think that there have been some very pertinent points made by DP and McGyver.

The offer of a "free" machie is pretty well the best and quickest way (and "bait"?) to get a machine off your hands - and the premises.

Its all too often who is to load it onto the buyers trailer or vehicle that may be a problem. Once its off site its the buyers problem.

The "for free" or "for cheap" is just "too good to miss" for some irrespective of whether they really have a need or use for it or if they just intend to "do it up" (which may never happen).

I see quite a few in that category ("bragging rights"?) here.

If you really want to get rid of that machine, putting a (any amount $$) price on it as a "filter" may see you stuck with it and successfully shooting yourself in the foot if/when you do seek to do a potential buyer a "good turn". Let the buyer look out/after himself.

If the machine was fully "written down/depreciated" (for tax purposes) anything you get for it will be tax-assessible - and that is why an Accountant will tell you to either lose it, scrap it or give it away.

john hobdeclipe
04-03-2012, 09:58 PM
Parting it out is also an option...with a bit of "feel good" added in because you are helping keep some else's machine alive for a while longer.

But ultimately, for someone who is engaged in a for profit business as Sir John is, time is money, productive shop space is money, and sentiment doesn't buy very much at the pub.

Drag the old beast out of your way. Sell off a few parts if you can, keep what you can use, scrap the rest and get on with it.

drof34
04-03-2012, 10:30 PM
He just wants to get rid of the big old TOS so he can use the space for two or three more POS to join the four or five POS (bridgeports) he already has.:D

EddyCurr
04-04-2012, 12:31 AM
Believe it or not, Jesus had told the guy to get rid of his machines ...Perhaps if the fellow had been into carpentry ...

.

Arcane
04-04-2012, 12:40 AM
..........Believe it or not, Jesus had told the guy to get rid of his machines..........
Those Mexican scrappers, eh? :D

.RC.
04-04-2012, 12:47 AM
Tis a pity you are not in this area John, lathes like you have got would sell for more then the scrap man....

Saw a rooted 16" Victor sell for AU$2500 (~US$2700) a year or so back....

A SN50 in good order(I assume yours is an SN50) would sell easily here in this mining boom area..

Boostinjdm
04-04-2012, 12:48 AM
Just a question of is it still capable of doing decent work. If it is,I hate to see a machine scrapped.

That pretty much sums up my feelings as well.

oldtiffie
04-04-2012, 01:25 AM
At the end of the day, all the regrets, advice and sentiment are perhaps nice to have and say but the decision to scrap it is going ahead anyway.

I can imagine that it might upset some but that may be for no good purpose as it will do nobody any good.

John Stevenson
04-04-2012, 04:15 AM
Tis a pity you are not in this area John, lathes like you have got would sell for more then the scrap man....

Saw a rooted 16" Victor sell for AU$2500 (~US$2700) a year or so back....

A SN50 in good order(I assume yours is an SN50) would sell easily here in this mining boom area..

I can fully understand this and that's what is probably clouding some of the views.
Long short is that over here they are worth nothing if they won't fit in a small garage.
Tim scrapped his TOS and will probably end up scrapping the spare DSG he has for the same reasons as me.

I gave £1500 for this machine 15 odd years ago, It's been a decent machine and doesn't owe me anything. One fault it does have is in facing off it leaves regular bands of raised metal about 3/8" wide.
A bit like castle battlements and probably 10 thou deep.
So no good for facing flywheels etc
I thought it was something to do with the power feed, loose keys playing catch up but it does the same thing under manual moves.

Never bothered me as it only works on shafts and bores and to be honest I'm not that interested / motivated into finding out why.

The whole purpose of this post was to show how pricing has changed over the last few years in that money can be made at the moment just buying items to scrap, any items as shown by the filing cabinet example.

Rosco-P
04-04-2012, 08:32 AM
At the end of the day, all the regrets, advice and sentiment are perhaps nice to have and say but the decision to scrap it is going ahead anyway.

I can imagine that it might upset some but that may be for no good purpose as it will do nobody any good.

Have you been appointed as John Stevenson's mouthpiece?

When your day comes, are we to believe that several thousand AUD of new looking grinding equipment (that you displayed in your shop) will be tossed in the re-cycle bin?

sasquatch
04-04-2012, 08:38 AM
Yup, probably will be just tossed, gone to the scrappers,, so,,, NO ONE will ever get it.

Lots of flags popping up here, that are showing some underlying stability problems in ones thinking.:eek:

oldtiffie
04-04-2012, 02:45 PM
Originally Posted by oldtiffie

At the end of the day, all the regrets, advice and sentiment are perhaps nice to have and say but the decision to scrap it is going ahead anyway.

I can imagine that it might upset some but that may be for no good purpose as it will do nobody any good.


Have you been appointed as John Stevenson's mouthpiece?

When your day comes, are we to believe that several thousand AUD of new looking grinding equipment (that you displayed in your shop) will be tossed in the re-cycle bin?

1 - definitely no - and I am not.

2 - definitely yes - the lot - not just the grinders.

John Stevenson
04-04-2012, 04:35 PM
1 - definitely no - and I am not.

2 - definitely yes - the lot - not just the grinders.

Don't forget to throw all the posed pictures at the same time.

Limy Sami
04-04-2012, 06:06 PM
Strikes me as a straightforward business decision, the machine has served it's time, earnt it's keep and by Johns admission far from being in the ''first flush.''

<>£1000 scrap and it cost £1500 15 years back? - £33.33 / year** for a lathe that size ain't bad going.

** Without the tax write off;)

oldtiffie
04-04-2012, 07:46 PM
Originally Posted by Rosco-P

Have you been appointed as John Stevenson's mouthpiece?

When your day comes, are we to believe that several thousand AUD of new looking grinding equipment (that you displayed in your shop) will be tossed in the re-cycle bin?



Originally Posted by oldtiffie

1 - definitely no - and I am not.

2 - definitely yes - the lot - not just the grinders.



Don't forget to throw all the posed pictures at the same time.

Nope.

I'm keeping all those pics of "what is" to go with the "what was" when its all in the "bin" - just to remind the sticky beaks and do-gooders et al that they don't have any say in what I do or don't do with my stuff.

I can believe it and certainly don't like it that so many seem to think that they have the right and entitlement to intefere in what others do or don't do with their own property (tools and machines).

Perhaps saying what they think is OK mostly but saying what to do or not do with that "stuff" is quite another - and being forceful and/or insistent as if it is or should be their own is just ignorant and plain arrogant (to put it politely).

If those pics "get up their singular and collective noses" - all the more reason to keep those pics.

If it drives them nuts? - or rather they drive themselves nuts over it?

It won't get better than that.

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/get+up+nose

But as its mainly "Chinese" and "everyone knows" that "Chinese stuff is no good at all to no one at all", I can't see what all the bother is about, and if thats so I'm doing them a favour by saving them from themselves and a "fair maidens" fate worse than death.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/134650.html

Sort of.

John Stevenson
04-04-2012, 08:01 PM
If you don't use the machines, have no interest in using them, then why do you bother visiting this forum ?

You are getting more like a troll every day.

Rosco-P
04-04-2012, 08:26 PM
Almost makes me wish Airsmith would return.
He shows ya stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1HDe2xxGZI&feature=plcp&context=C4495eeaVDvjVQa1PpcFMjef3VMwKdcbMENPay0oSX aVtTJQpgAFs=
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgNk0RmZRGg&feature=plcp&context=C415375aVDvjVQa1PpcFMjef3VMwKdcUTPvMikQzA1 czJntQwHwF8%3D

At least he was entertaining and not tedious.

sasquatch
04-04-2012, 08:35 PM
selfish agitator.

Boostinjdm
04-04-2012, 08:39 PM
just to remind the sticky beaks and do-gooders et al that they don't have any say in what I do or don't do with my stuff.

You're making it awfully hard for anyone to forget.

Arcane
04-04-2012, 08:44 PM
Nope.

I'm keeping all those pics of "what is" to go with the "what was" when its all in the "bin" - just to remind the sticky beaks and do-gooders et al that they don't have any say in what I do or don't do with my stuff.

I can believe it and certainly don't like it that so many seem to think that they have the right and entitlement to intefere in what others do or don't do with their own property (tools and machines).

Perhaps saying what they think is OK mostly but saying what to do or not do with that "stuff" is quite another - and being forceful and/or insistent as if it is or should be their own is just ignorant and plain arrogant (to put it politely).

If those pics "get up their singular and collective noses" - all the more reason to keep those pics.

If it drives them nuts? - or rather they drive themselves nuts over it?

It won't get better than that.

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/get+up+nose

But as its mainly "Chinese" and "everyone knows" that "Chinese stuff is no good at all to no one at all", I can't see what all the bother is about, and if thats so I'm doing them a favour by saving them from themselves and a "fair maidens" fate worse than death.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/134650.html

Sort of.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_in_the_manger

oldtiffie
04-04-2012, 09:09 PM
Originally Posted by oldtiffie

just to remind the sticky beaks and do-gooders et al that they don't have any say in what I do or don't do with my stuff.


You're making it awfully hard for anyone to forget.

If I succeed in that I will be more than satisfied - the effort will have been worth it.

oldtiffie
04-04-2012, 09:16 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_in_the_manger


The story and metaphor of The Dog in the Manger derives from an old Greek fable which has been transmitted in several different versions. Interpreted variously over the centuries, it is used now of those who spitefully prevent others from having something that they themselves have no use for. Although the story was ascribed to Aesop's Fables in the 15th century, there is no ancient source that does so.

That also in modern parlance seem to infer that everybody else has a communal share or right in anothers property when it could be extended to mean that "others" may deem or decided that property of another is not "used" or that the owner/s "have no use for it" whether that is right in fact or not.

Maybe else-where - but not here.

If they have built their expectations on false hopes of their own making it is also a problem of their own making.

In short - I am not depriving anyone of anything that they have a right to or for.

oldtiffie
04-04-2012, 09:31 PM
If you don't use the machines, have no interest in using them, then why do you bother visiting this forum ?

You are getting more like a troll every day.

I didn't say any of that - you did - as did others.


A troll is a supernatural being in Norse mythology and Scandinavian folklore. In origin, one of the meanings of the term troll was a negative synonym for a jötunn (plural jötnar), a being in Norse mythology, although the word was also used about witches, berserkers and various other evil magical figures. In Old Norse sources, beings described as trolls dwell in isolated rocks, mountains, or caves, live together in small family units, and are rarely helpful to human beings.

Later, in Scandinavian folklore, trolls became beings in their own right, where they live far from human habitation, are not Christianized, and are considered dangerous to human beings. Depending on the region from which accounts of trolls stem, their appearance varies greatly; trolls may be ugly and slow-witted or look and behave exactly like human beings, with no particularly grotesque characteristic about them. Trolls are sometimes associated with particular landmarks, which at times may be explained as formed from a troll exposed to sunlight. One of the most famous elements of Scandinavian folklore, trolls are depicted in a variety of media in modern popular culture.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll

What a bummer - I thought I'd achieved and surpassed troll status and standing long ago.

If or as I'm not there yet and don't know how far I have to go or how long I've got to get to that Holy Grail of mine - troll status - I'd better get my finger/s out and really get moving.

So you will appreciate that I am really pleased you told me that.

gwilson
04-04-2012, 10:54 PM
You keep posting references to simple words as if you think no one here has enough education to know these things already.

oldtiffie
04-04-2012, 10:58 PM
Nope - its for my own benefit as I am old and keep forgetting.

Boostinjdm
04-05-2012, 12:07 AM
Nope - its for my own benefit as I am old and keep forgetting.

Could you maybe just forget to log in from now on?

oldtiffie
04-05-2012, 12:27 AM
Its more likely that I will forget to not not log on.

You should be so lucky.

Sorry.

Not.

ptjw7uk
04-05-2012, 03:52 AM
If scrap is now fetching such a high price why was an American Aircraft Carrier get sunk by blowing it up. On UK tv a few days ago. I thought what a waste of good steel!

peter

oldtiffie
04-05-2012, 04:04 AM
In many advanced countries it is too expensive to break ships up. So most ships are sunk as artificail reefs etc. and many of the rest are sent to breakers yards in developing countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_breaker

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=ship+breaker&hl=en&qscrl=1&nord=1&rlz=1T4IRFC_enAU360AU360&prmd=imvnsbl&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=8VB9T8SxK4rBiQewn5yhCQ&sqi=2&ved=0CGkQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=785

mike4
04-05-2012, 05:04 AM
Tiffie,
Its not worth wasting time on as many dont realize that if someone owns something it is theirs to with as they wish , (that only applies to machine tools and the attachments), if you want to throw your gear in the nearest bin then thats your decision , and if Sir John sells or scraps the TOS it is his decision .
From what he has said the machine might need a lot of work to get it to "pristine " condition , ok for someone with more time on their hands than most .

As RC knows I did attempt to purchase a large borer some time ago , however there was no interest shown by the people who I contacted about it .
They were too interested in their own "finds" to even care that I was quite prepared to buy the machine and then pay several thousand dollars to ship it to my yard for cleaning and some mods , then it would have been put to work until either I could afford a better machine or got out of the game.
Michael

oldtiffie
04-05-2012, 06:50 AM
Thanks Michael - appreciated.

The more things change the more they stay the same.

thaiguzzi
04-12-2012, 12:14 PM
Hi John,
have sent you a pm.
Regards,
Mike.