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View Full Version : I'm definitely going to have to get a surface grinder



67chevelle
04-02-2012, 09:53 PM
Bit the bullet last fall and enrolled full-time in the Machine Tool Technology program at one of our local community colleges. I do some hobby machining in a home shop and have learned a lot from reading forums and dozens of texts that I have purchased, but the hands on learning from an instructor with 40 years in the trade has been very rewarding.

The 1st year in the program is dealing mostly with the manual equipment, and Iíve finished the required projects in the 1st 5 weeks or so of each semester and have been able to work on numerous personal projects as well as the jobs that come into the lab from various other departments. (welding shop, automotive, small engine, engineering..)

Got my 1st opportunity to operate a surface grinder today and I think I found the next toy I have to have.

One of the required projects is a set of v-blocks, that I finished 6 weeks ago, and we heat treated them at the end of this last week.

Started grinding them today and the finished surface that Iím achieving with the grinder is amazing..

Thinking Iím going to have to tell my wife that my customers are demanding surface ground finishes on all of their parts ;-)

Mark

randyjaco
04-02-2012, 10:11 PM
I sure enjoy mine ;)

Randy

oldtiffie
04-02-2012, 10:19 PM
Given the choice between a surface grinder and a good tool & cutter grinder, I'd take the T&C grinder every time.

A surface grinder will perform limited T&C functions but a T&C grinder (with a magnetic chuck) will do a very good job of surface grinding as well.

The main probelm will be the maximum size that the table of each will handle.

Ian B
04-03-2012, 02:25 AM
Tiffie,

Maybe it's just my T&C grinder, but it's main limitation as a surface grinder is the adjustment of head height. Whereas surface grinders allow you to lower the head by a small but precise amount, mine (a Union / Boxford machine) has a coarse square thread around the column. Works fine to the nearest 1/8", not so good if you want to work in tenths.

Ian

.RC.
04-03-2012, 03:13 AM
Tiffie,

Maybe it's just my T&C grinder, but it's main limitation as a surface grinder is the adjustment of head height.

No it is not just your grinder....

TC grinders make very poor surface grinders unless your tolerances are measured in 0.001".

TC grinders are jack of all trades master of none and usually powered by small motors...

A surface grinder is a surface grinder, designed to be a surface grinder usually with powered traverse, power cross and the good ones power down...

I would pick up a surface grinder before a TC grinder...

oldtiffie
04-03-2012, 03:32 AM
Tiffie,

Maybe it's just my T&C grinder, but it's main limitation as a surface grinder is the adjustment of head height. Whereas surface grinders allow you to lower the head by a small but precise amount, mine (a Union / Boxford machine) has a coarse square thread around the column. Works fine to the nearest 1/8", not so good if you want to work in tenths.

Ian

Here is my surface grinder and T&C grinders - no problem with head height or using a 12" x 6" magnetic chuck. They are calibrated to (as I recall) 0.02mm (~ 0.0008") with the down and cross feeds - iterpolating to and achieving 1/4 of that (0.0002" or ~0.005mm) is fairly easy to do and achieve as well.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Surface%20and%20T-G%20grinders/Grind_work-head_demo8.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Surface%20and%20T-G%20grinders/Grind_work-head_demo9.jpg

and here is my universal (surface, T&C and cylindrical) grinder - a marvellous machine - 0.02mm (~0.0008" - as before.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Universal_grinder/Universal_grinder3.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Universal_grinder/Universal_grinder5.jpg

For .RC.: there are surface and T&C grinders and there are surface and T&C grinders.

Mcruff
04-03-2012, 09:20 AM
In the world of surface grinding that would make a horrible surface grinder that would be very limited in its use and capability. I have run a surface grinder in the 1000's of hours and that would suck eggs for any real work.

You may be getting by when you need one but thats all your doing. That in no way would be any competition or a suitable substitute for a real surface grinder.
With a few attachments I can do virtually anything on a harig 6x12 that you can do on that machine.

JCHannum
04-03-2012, 05:43 PM
Surface grinders and T&C grinders are two different machines by design and purpose. There can be some overlap in application by use of various attachments, but to claim that a T&C grinder is a surface grinder is plain foolishness.

If your only application is to display trophy photos of your tooling stacked in various poses, it does not make a difference. In the real world, it does.

Perhaps you could show us some of the work you have produced at the 0.02mm and 0.005mm accuracy you are quoting.

John Stevenson
04-03-2012, 05:45 PM
If you have ever USED a T&C grinder as a surface grinder you will know the limitations of one as a surface grinder.

If you only need one to take pretty pictures then just disregard this post.

EDIT JC beat me to it.

Black_Moons
04-03-2012, 06:17 PM
All those machines, So spotless, Like they have never been used, its like a showroom. All dated 2009~2010...

oldtiffie
04-03-2012, 06:46 PM
Those machines were bought to suit my requirements for "small" reasonably accurate work in a small shop on an occassional basis. I have no need for - or rather, I certainly can't justify - larger machines with power feeds for a variety of reasons - mainly space.

A couple of hours using manual feeds is not a problem. I have no need for a "production" machine and would refuse one even if given it in good order and condition - same with the rest of the machines

All of my machines - other than the HF-45 mill and the pedestal drill - are on 2' x 7' steel benches - including my 10" x 30" lathe and two Sieg mills (1 x X3 and 1 x SX3).

My 11" shaper, 3 ton arbor press, 20 ton hydraulic press and my MIG and oxy/acet sets are all on castors.

There is not a machine that cannot be lifted on my 1 ton engine crane and moved freely on my 1/2 ton scissor lift - those grinders included.

I can re-locate or remove any of those machines at any time with the minimum of time effort, money or fuss.

I have no heavy manual lifts to do either - such as 8" rotary tables and/or large machine vises and/or lathe chucks.

So those grinders fit in and work very nicely. And they all do work well as surface grinders as well.

Doozer
04-03-2012, 07:25 PM
As long as those grinders work well, it seems they fill the need. The design and layout of the parts of these machines looks different than most I have seen. I like that they are light enough to move easily if needed. For a surface grinder, I chose a Boyar Shultz 612. It is pretty light and yet fully enclosed to keep dust out of the ways. I don't have a cylindrical grinder, but I am looking for a Brown & Sharp #13, which will not be light. I did learn to do some good dry grinding on my Boyar Shultz. Coolant can mask improper technique and wheel selection.
I am not sure if having used industrial type tools (grinders, lathes, mills) that I could go back to lighter home shop designed machines. I started with a 10" Atlas lathe, and after using a 16" to 20" heavy industrial lathes, I could never go back to taking .020" cuts and chatter. Using Hardinge lathes also spoiled me. I sold the Atlas.
--Doozer

lane
04-03-2012, 07:41 PM
Here is my Tool and Cutter grinder and it gets used.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/KOLeecuttergrinder011.jpg
And here is my surface grinder and it gets used to .
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Grinders012.jpg
Their is a world of difference between the two. But each has their place.

Mcgyver
04-04-2012, 03:41 PM
Surface grinders and T&C grinders are two different machines by design and purpose. There can be some overlap in application by use of various attachments, but to claim that a T&C grinder is a surface grinder is plain foolishness.

If your only application is to display trophy photos of your tooling stacked in various poses, it does not make a difference. In the real world, it does.

Perhaps you could show us some of the work you have produced at the 0.02mm and 0.005mm accuracy you are quoting.

+1

each can think how they want on the subject, but the guy asked about surface grinders. OT do we really have to suffer again page long posts of drivel about why for you think a T&CG is a surface grinder? when do we get the page long one about how you've not attachment to it and will throw it out? enough already, start some bloody thread's of your own about your ideas rather than derailing everyone elses.

John Stevenson
04-04-2012, 04:31 PM
Better still show us something you have made as opposed to chequebook engineering.