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View Full Version : Milestone - My 1st paying job (Home Shop)



kyfho
04-16-2012, 07:18 PM
Fast background:
I am an Electrician for a steel mill. It's a large operation and amazingly, they do not have machine shop or fab shop. If the mechanics can't torch it or weld it, it gets farmed out to a local machine shop where we frequently get gouged ($$$), but that's another story.

I have quickly developed the reputation as someone that has unique (for them) fabrication and machining skills and can think outside the box (read as McGuyver).

As such, when the engineers in charge of the substation found they have boxes of fuse holders that are drilled and tapped for the wrong bolt size, they asked if I could modify them in my shop at home.

2 sizes (50 Amp & 100 Amp), 300+ total pieces.
6061-T6 Al
Blind hole - 3/4" deep
Currently 5/16"-18
Required 1/2"-13

http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz58/kyfho47/1Overview.jpg

http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz58/kyfho47/2Profile.jpg

http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz58/kyfho47/3Endview.jpg

Had to make a stop collar for the 7/16" bit.

http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz58/kyfho47/4Stopcollar.jpg

Cont...

kyfho
04-16-2012, 07:29 PM
Cont...

Drill to depth
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz58/kyfho47/5Drilltodepth.jpg

2 step tapping - 1st taper tap, them bottom tap
http://i813.photobucket.com/albums/zz58/kyfho47/6Tap.jpg

Had to modify a tap for bottoming. Only had taper taps at home.

Will be paid my normal base pay for time required.

I'm trying to approach this like a genuine shop and calculate operation time per piece.

1 hour for set-up
2 min./piece to drill (clearing the chips is a royal pain with that collar)
5 min./piece to tap (2 tapping operations)
These times account for loading, operation, unloading and clean-up.

As this is my first try at this, does this seem reasonable?

P.S. Quickly figured out that my next modification to the lathe is a quick release lock for my tail stock.:)

John Stevenson
04-16-2012, 07:38 PM
Put the drill in a boring bar type holder on the toolpost, loose the collar and use a bed stop instead.
Drill all the parts for the first operation. This stops the collar being a pain.

Buy a spiral flute machine tap and you will be able to tap in one second operation.

I'd allow 30 seconds to drill and 45 seconds to tap.

[EDIT ] These are production times, not charging out times.

kyfho
04-16-2012, 08:50 PM
Both great suggestions John. I'll have to file those away for FUTURE use. I don't currently have the necessary tooling.

Time constraints - I have to be done by tomorrow morning.:(

Dr Stan
04-16-2012, 09:02 PM
Will be paid my normal base pay for time required.

Way too low of a pay rate. That's for labor only and does not cover depreciation, overhead, etc.

Ohio Mike
04-16-2012, 09:29 PM
Paying you for your time is a steal for them. Remember when calculating expenses to include actual machine use in addition to specific tooling required. After all you did have to buy all those machine right? Plus you have the building expenses, the power bill, etc. Not trying to be critical but if you let them they will gladly let you pay their expenses. Something to keep in mind as new jobs pop up.

legendboy
04-16-2012, 09:40 PM
I was thinking the same thing. I always price stuff by the piece on jobs like this.

I also do most of our machining for work at home. Generally speaking I won't even go out to my garage for less then about $100/hr minimum, at least not for work stuff

PixMan
04-16-2012, 09:58 PM
Yup...you gotta charge a LOT more than that! Where your machines free, electricity free, rent/mortgage/home free, tooling free?

Your basic rate should be between NO LESS THAN $35 per hour, up to $100 per hour. Most often, a shop like yours is in the $45/hr range. Not a penny less, I say!

CCWKen
04-16-2012, 10:42 PM
You better get off the computer and get busy. By your times, it will take you 36 hours. That's cutting "done by tomorrow" pretty close. :eek:

I would charge a flat rate. $0.50 per piece. I agree with John, you're way off on your time estimate. Forget drawing "hourly rate" unless the company is providing the machine, tools and electric. ;)

Paul Alciatore
04-16-2012, 10:42 PM
I would add something for insurance or get a very comprehensive release of liability. Those are BIG fuses and if one of those modified parts should cause a problem, it could get very expensive. The attorneys for the original manufacturer will be very fast to blame you no matter how improbable that may be. You could loose everything in a lawsuit. If you do go the insurance route, DO buy a policy that covers the parts for at least the rest of your life.

I try to avoid any jobs that could have high dollar value damages associated with any parts or devices that I make. Perhaps one day I can get a policy to cover it.

As an employee, their insurance covers such problems: as an outside contractor, it does NOT.

lowcountrycamo
04-16-2012, 10:50 PM
If he is working by the hour, is he still concidered an outside contractor?

J. R. Williams
04-16-2012, 11:04 PM
I would not modify a safety device like a fuse in my own shop for an outside company.

Davo J
04-16-2012, 11:15 PM
I think if he is working for where he works at the same rate it would come under there insurance, just like working off site.

First off, good for you getting some side work on your machines at home.

But I agree with the others and think you should get at least double your pay rate for things your doing on your machinery, after all what happens if you don't have the tool to do it and have to buy say a drill bit. I may cost you an hours pay to buy that tool and then your down an hour before you even start.

I have had many people over the years think I could just do it home for the same money or to help them out, not likely and they get a bit annoyed with you over it. After all they are getting paid the right price for the job and making a profit, and at home relaxing while your working.

Dave

armedandsafe
04-16-2012, 11:52 PM
I would not modify a safety device like a fuse in my own shop for an outside company.


boxes of fuse holders that are drilled and tapped for the wrong bolt size,

I'd be willing to take on that job. I worked in the electronics field for over 50 years and understand your concerns, but the holder is just a chunk of metal, not the actual safety device. Before you poo-poo my electronics experience with heavy duty electrical devices, I'll advise you that I have maintained, designed and built 100K Watt transmitters. That is fairly heavy duty electricity requirements.

I'd charge them overtime, at least. And, make sure their insurance covers you and shop while job is in process.

Pops

Frank46
04-17-2012, 12:13 AM
I'm with Pops. While working your normal 40 hour work week you are at the job site. However you are at home doing work for them outside of your normal 40 hour work schedule. Time and a half at least and definitely check as to wether or not their insurance covers you and your shop while working for them. My company had covered us when we traveled to various schools off the site. Went to chicago for a week to attend convention and schooling. Definitely something to think about. And then there are the costs for tooling and equipment and electricity. At your current rate they are only paying you for your time and not your equipment expenses. They are getting the better of the deal. Frank

oldtiffie
04-17-2012, 03:41 AM
If it hasn't happened already that large enterprise will or may require a Tax Invoice from you - for the IRS/Tax.

They do have some contingency funds for "cash" jobs - but they will claim it never the less.

I avoid (Australian) Tax Office audits like the plaque - I've had a couple (1 big, one not so big) and came out pretty well - but not entirely - and it sure made me 110% "aware".

I don't know what is like in the USA or other countries but I'd guess it would be similar.

mike4
04-17-2012, 04:00 AM
I'd be willing to take on that job. I worked in the electronics field for over 50 years and understand your concerns, but the holder is just a chunk of metal, not the actual safety device. Before you poo-poo my electronics experience with heavy duty electrical devices, I'll advise you that I have maintained, designed and built 100K Watt transmitters. That is fairly heavy duty electricity requirements.

I'd charge them overtime, at least. And, make sure their insurance covers you and shop while job is in process.

Pops
I agree totally , the metal part is only supporting another part not providing any safety related input.Michael

lowcountrycamo
04-17-2012, 06:30 AM
If it hasn't happened already that large enterprise will or may require a Tax Invoice from you - for the IRS/Tax.

They do have some contingency funds for "cash" jobs - but they will claim it never the less.

I avoid (Australian) Tax Office audits like the plaque - I've had a couple (1 big, one not so big) and came out pretty well - but not entirely - and it sure made me 110% "aware".

I don't know what is like in the USA or other countries but I'd guess it would be similar.

In USA Georgia, my parents own a bit of property but make very little in cash and they have been audited every year since 1986... no bull. My father has always be cautious, glad to pay as to not loose law licence. Now that he is old they are taking advantage. "Bit the bullet" said the lady from the state tax office. He bit last year, paid over 250,000. 3 week later, got a letter wanting more. To them, he's an easy mark.

oldtiffie
04-17-2012, 07:03 AM
Why do it in a lathe?

Why not clamp a 3-jaw chuck to the mill table, centre the job to the mill spindle, drill all the enlarged and deepened holes (set quill depth stop), tap all the parts with a spiral tap.

Its easier tappling with a good tappling head as it stops and reverses automatically.

https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Machine-Tapping-Chucks-Reversible

Clevelander
04-17-2012, 09:28 PM
But Pauls point on liability is the most important thing said here. If you do this as an employee the liability rides with the employer, if you do it as piece work even with a waiver you may find yourself in court if there is ever a problem. Welcome to America.

Best compromise may be to figure out what the piece work would come out to as an hourly and be paid the equivilent. BTW the other cost issues brought up were also valid.

The only thing I'm concerned about right now is that you're already basically too late to get an agreement through with your employer.

Elninio
04-17-2012, 09:36 PM
Yup...you gotta charge a LOT more than that! Where your machines free, electricity free, rent/mortgage/home free, tooling free?

Your basic rate should be between NO LESS THAN $35 per hour, up to $100 per hour. Most often, a shop like yours is in the $45/hr range. Not a penny less, I say!

not to mention the cost of when your tools break, that's a field on it's own (though the name escapes me, am not a business guy) ... though he does want to stay far from the competitor's prices

jkilroy
04-17-2012, 09:59 PM
Turret lathe job for sure.

danlb
04-17-2012, 10:35 PM
Put the drill in a boring bar type holder on the toolpost, loose the collar and use a bed stop instead.


That is a good idea. If you can't use a boring bar holder in the tool post, you can use the tool post as a stop for the tailstock mounted drill chuck.

I used to do that all the time, then learned to check for clearance when using the tailstock. I now move the cross-slide all the way back so I don't hit it by accident.

Most often the tail-stock acts as an accidental depth stop when I'm turning. That's one of the drawbacks to a 7x12 lathe. Things get in the way.

Dan

Paul Alciatore
04-18-2012, 02:55 AM
I'd be willing to take on that job. I worked in the electronics field for over 50 years and understand your concerns, but the holder is just a chunk of metal, not the actual safety device. Before you poo-poo my electronics experience with heavy duty electrical devices, I'll advise you that I have maintained, designed and built 100K Watt transmitters. That is fairly heavy duty electricity requirements.

I'd charge them overtime, at least. And, make sure their insurance covers you and shop while job is in process.

Pops

OK, I have only worked in electronics for 45 years and maintained transmitters up to 50 KW so you have me beat there, but I think my concerns still apply. (Anyway, after you get up to several Amps of available current, it's the Voltage that counts, not the Wattage and I have been bit by quite a bit on a couple of occasions.) It is not what is likely to happen: I am sure the device is quite safe. But what the lawyers will make of it if something does happen. They definitely do not understand the safety concerns here or the lack of them. Nor do they care. What they do understand and care about is limiting the liability of their own company and they will argue everything they can to accomplish that. The judge and jury would be even more ignorant. At the very least, you would need a really good attorney of your own and they have their own idea of hourly rates. Think several hundred dollars multiplied by dozens if not hundreds of hours. I repeat, either get a really good waver or get insurance. Don't take a chance on losing everything for a quick chance at what is pocket change.

It would also be a good idea to have the company provide a detailed drawing of the parts required and be sure that you follow it in all details. That way, they are responsible for the design, not you.

alistair1537
04-18-2012, 03:21 AM
With all the advice of insurances and disclaimers, is it any wonder that we can't get it done in the West anymore?

How do you think it would be done in a less "sophisticated" country - say India or China?

They must be laughing at your posts!

Arthur.Marks
04-18-2012, 10:37 AM
No kidding, man! Give the guy a break! Jeez.

danlb
04-18-2012, 12:13 PM
I wonder if he completed it in time?

Other than the time restriction, It sounds like a good first project. The dimensions are not critical, the parts are not ultra expensive if ruined. He's already learned to think of at least 'expendables' when he takes the job. The next time he'll have a better idea of what to do when doing a production run... Lots of learning there.

When I do "paying work" for friends / acquaintances I do not charge commercial rates. I also do not guarantee commercial quality nor speed. And I make it clear that they risk the loss if I break it. As once said... I charge half the price but take twice as long as a pro.

Don't rush jobs command a higher price at machine shops?

Dan

amatts
04-18-2012, 04:11 PM
If you are doing this as side work,get it in writing.Also,figure out what your hourly burden rate is.Which is all the overhead,tooling etc.+labor/hr.Job like this could be piece rate,or hourly.Depends how well you and them engineers get along...been there,done that,cheers.

John Stevenson
04-18-2012, 04:55 PM
With all the advice of insurances and disclaimers, is it any wonder that we can't get it done in the West anymore?

How do you think it would be done in a less "sophisticated" country - say India or China?

They must be laughing at your posts!

Too right.

I posted what I though was a helpful post given what the OP seemed to have at his disposal.
True it would have been easier on a capstan but didn't see that mentioned, neither did I see mill or tapping head featured in the OP.

Then stand back to see the usual pile on about liability, and why not charge $400 per hour given that it's everyone's God given right to use the most basic equipment, lack of production skills and expect a customer to pay for it.

Different when the poster has to pay those rates though isn't it. :D

oldtiffie
04-18-2012, 06:28 PM
Too right.

I posted what I though was a helpful post given what the OP seemed to have at his disposal.
True it would have been easier on a capstan but didn't see that mentioned, neither did I see mill or tapping head featured in the OP.

Then stand back to see the usual pile on about liability, and why not charge $400 per hour given that it's everyone's God given right to use the most basic equipment, lack of production skills and expect a customer to pay for it.

Different when the poster has to pay those rates though isn't it.

It was me (I?) that suggested the mill and tapping head.

I realised that the OP probably would not have had a tapping head but an order like that (time permitting) justifies a tapping head (eBay?) as it saves hours of work and tedium compared to a lathe.

When I suggested the 3-jaw chuck bolted to the mill table and centred under the mill spindle (used as a drill press) I rather hoped he had a mill.

But in the absence of a mill it could be made to work on a reasonable drill press as the drill would self-centre in the (original) tapped hole.

The Sieg SX3 has a tapping feature on the three arms of the quill lever - it is simply a forward/reverse switch (no clutch) and perhaps the OP could (have?) put a reverse switch on his drill press.

Drilling a bit deeper might have solved any "bottoming out" problems with the tap and would have given more room for swarf at the bottom of the hole.

This drill press (with adjustable clutch) would have done that job on its own with a 3-jaw chuck on the table - it has ample low speed power ("grunt") and reversing is easy:

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Med_Speed_Spindles/Metabo_drill1.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Med_Speed_Spindles/Metabo_drill2.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Med_Speed_Spindles/Metabo_drill3.jpg

My point here is that all driiling tapping etc. etc. does not mean that it must be done on a mill or a lathe and it doesn't mean that it has to be done in the shop either.

John Stevenson
04-18-2012, 06:37 PM
That's a nice unused drill Tiffie.

oldtiffie
04-18-2012, 06:55 PM
True - I thought you'd like it.

But did you notice the (made in UK) "Record" drill stand? It it as heavy as **** and as solid as a rock. The head can be moved up and down and around the column and the depth stop never moves once set.

A true (rare here) non-"China" combo.

Black_Moons
04-18-2012, 07:28 PM
That's a nice unused drill Tiffie.

Im sure he has used it just a little since he first posted it in 2010.

John Stevenson
04-18-2012, 07:58 PM
Im sure he has used it just a little since he first posted it in 2010.

Doubt it.............

oldtiffie
04-18-2012, 08:28 PM
John.

Note too that the vise is a "Record" as well - I must have had it 40+ years and its had a hammering (but no abuse). I bought it with my Taiwanese drill press (I don't think there were any "Made in China" stuff then) which has given stirling service (couldn't resist - sorry) as well.

Only problem with the vise was excessive (0.093mm/0.037 ") moving jaw uplift (from new) which was countered by the engineers rule "hold-down" (works as good as the Starrett hold downs).

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Pedestal%20drill/Vyce_clamp2.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Pedestal%20drill/Vyce_clamp6.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Vise/Hold-down1.jpg

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/Vise/Hold-down3.jpg

Your Old Dog
04-18-2012, 09:00 PM
Paying you for your time is a steal for them. Remember when calculating expenses to include actual machine use in addition to specific tooling required. After all you did have to buy all those machine right? Plus you have the building expenses, the power bill, etc. Not trying to be critical but if you let them they will gladly let you pay their expenses. Something to keep in mind as new jobs pop up.


I agree. Once you start cheap it's hard to get anything but meager money. I have done tons of work for the TV station I worked for. My standard price was usually 1/2 to 1/3 of what someone else would charge them only I got right on the project.

They needed 2 film racks that cost $2000.00 each at the time. I offered to build them from angle iron and weld them up for half that price. They agreed, I ordered my steel precut. Ordered double scrap uncut to build a large jig type table, bought O/A setup, found out I couldn't weld and then bought a 300 amp welder and a welding book (!!) and made their racks in my garage. When I was done, I had a boat load of steel angle to play with, an O/A setup and a AC welder.

I built an entertainment center for the client's room. They gave me enough money down to buy a 10" cabinet saw and 5 weeks later they had A $5,000 entertainment center.

I built utility cases to prevent theft of the TV cameras in the news cameras, built 10 for my station and 8 for our competitor all at $350.00. Those dollars were all put back into the shop. I have a wood and metal shop almost completely outfitted with projects for my empoyer.

oldtiffie
04-18-2012, 10:26 PM
To get back to basics as regards your relationship with your day-job employer where you are doing work for him at home.

I would think that in that case your employer might regard you as an independent contractor over whom the employer neither wants nor needs effective control during the job. All he wants and needs is for you to accept and complete the job (for him).

If that is the case, you and your employer - in this situation - may be at arms length and you are responsible for any attached risks etc. and regulatory requirements and charges.

If that is the case you may be effectivelty be paying less than you are paid at work.

I'd ask your employers accountant or Financial Officer to clear things up.

tmc_31
04-19-2012, 12:14 AM
Kyfho,

Congratulations on you first paying job:D . I faced similar questions when I did my first paying job. I found many of the answers on this forum. The end results (for me and my customer) worked out pretty well.

As to what to charge, for this job, it sounds like it is a forgone conclusion that it will be by the hour at your regular rate of pay. For future jobs, I suggest that you figure out what it costs to outfit your shop (lifecycle costing is great if you can do it but it needn't be that complicated), then add a reasonable labor rate and a reasonable profit margin. This will give you a place to start, then you have to temper that cost with your experience level, and what other machine shops in your area are charging for similar work. Then you can come up with a shop rate that you can use to better estimate pricing for your customers. I went through this process and settled on a shop rate of $50.00/hr. This is just a starting place, other factors may influence how you price a particular job for a particular customer.

The liability issue is a tougher nut to crack. If you are going to be in the machining business, it is a no brainer, go get the appropriate insurance. If you are a hobby machinist like I am, just hoping to earn a few extra bucks here and there, you still need to protect yourself. I put a little blurb on my invoice (yes I keep books on my hobby's too) that basically says: "This product was built from materials supplied by the customer from plans and specifications supplied by the customer. I will bear no responsibility or liability as to the suitability of this product for it's intended purpose. This product is delivered as is where is and it's suitability for use is determined solely by the customer". Then I have the customer sign the invoice on a line just under this paragraph. I am no Lawyer and have no legal training but I am sure that that statement will not hold water if a lawsuit was to develop. Still that signed statement and my own common sense gives me some piece of mind. Also, if a lawsuit is filed, they can have what I've got and they still won't be getting much.

The first job I did was fairly simple ( there is a description of it somewhere back in the dusty archives of this forum) After doing it (and getting paid for it) I figured out some different tooling strategies that would make it go faster and easier the next time. As it was to be a recurring job, I went ahead and purchased some additional tooling toward that end.

It looks like you have figured out a way that will work for you to complete this project. I promise that you will learn from it. If it (or a similar job) comes up again, you have a better understanding of how best to accomplish it, how to price it and what the risks are.

Good luck, I hope this works out for you. If you are of a mind to, please consider sharing the results with us. This forum is all about learning from each others experiences.

Tim

oldtiffie
04-19-2012, 03:08 AM
Kyfho,

Congratulations on you first paying job:D . I faced similar questions when I did my first paying job. I found many of the answers on this forum. The end results (for me and my customer) worked out pretty well.

As to what to charge, for this job, it sounds like it is a forgone conclusion that it will be by the hour at your regular rate of pay. For future jobs, I suggest that you figure out what it costs to outfit your shop (lifecycle costing is great if you can do it but it needn't be that complicated), then add a reasonable labor rate and a reasonable profit margin. This will give you a place to start, then you have to temper that cost with your experience level, and what other machine shops in your area are charging for similar work. Then you can come up with a shop rate that you can use to better estimate pricing for your customers. I went through this process and settled on a shop rate of $50.00/hr. This is just a starting place, other factors may influence how you price a particular job for a particular customer.

The liability issue is a tougher nut to crack. If you are going to be in the machining business, it is a no brainer, go get the appropriate insurance. If you are a hobby machinist like I am, just hoping to earn a few extra bucks here and there, you still need to protect yourself. I put a little blurb on my invoice (yes I keep books on my hobby's too) that basically says: "This product was built from materials supplied by the customer from plans and specifications supplied by the customer. I will bear no responsibility or liability as to the suitability of this product for it's intended purpose. This product is delivered as is where is and it's suitability for use is determined solely by the customer". Then I have the customer sign the invoice on a line just under this paragraph. I am no Lawyer and have no legal training but I am sure that that statement will not hold water if a lawsuit was to develop. Still that signed statement and my own common sense gives me some piece of mind. Also, if a lawsuit is filed, they can have what I've got and they still won't be getting much.

The first job I did was fairly simple ( there is a description of it somewhere back in the dusty archives of this forum) After doing it (and getting paid for it) I figured out some different tooling strategies that would make it go faster and easier the next time. As it was to be a recurring job, I went ahead and purchased some additional tooling toward that end.

It looks like you have figured out a way that will work for you to complete this project. I promise that you will learn from it. If it (or a similar job) comes up again, you have a better understanding of how best to accomplish it, how to price it and what the risks are.

Good luck, I hope this works out for you. If you are of a mind to, please consider sharing the results with us. This forum is all about learning from each others experiences.

Tim

I'd agree with most of that as you cannot afford to be unduly exposed to litigation.

But while most of it is fine, you may be liabbe under "duty of care" etc. if any defect caused by your component of the work leaves the client "at risk" or with a good case for litigation.

I'd suggest that your Lawyer of Insuance company might review that caution or warning.

I've yet to see anyone who is working on jobs for his employer get his status defined as regards liability and whether he is in fact an independent contractor and at arms length from his emplyer in which case he may not be covered for or by some of the "benefits" he has while working under the direct control of the employer.

It could be nasty if he has a "significant OHS event" while working in his own shop - the more so if he is not "OHS compliant" or registered.

I'd have it all checked out before any "event" - just in case.

oldtiffie
04-19-2012, 07:14 AM
I agree. Once you start cheap it's hard to get anything but meager money.


If you start there its a clear signal to who ever is paying you. You deserve what little you get and keep on getting.

I have done tons of work for the TV station I worked for. My standard price was usually 1/2 to 1/3 of what someone else would charge them only I got right on the project.


I'd charge whatever the going rate is for outside Contractors - they will soon stop it/you if you aim too high - but if they haven't queried the rate you charging then perhaps the margin between you and a contractor is too wide and needs to be narrowed.

They needed 2 film racks that cost $2000.00 each at the time. I offered to build them from angle iron and weld them up for half that price. They agreed, I ordered my steel precut. Ordered double scrap uncut to build a large jig type table, bought O/A setup, found out I couldn't weld and then bought a 300 amp welder and a welding book (!!) and made their racks in my garage. When I was done, I had a boat load of steel angle to play with, an O/A setup and a AC welder.


That scrap and machines should heve been bought - at least in part - from an amount above "wages" as part of your cost structure.

I built an entertainment center for the client's room. They gave me enough money down to buy a 10" cabinet saw and 5 weeks later they had A $5,000 entertainment center.

I built utility cases to prevent theft of the TV cameras in the news cameras, built 10 for my station and 8 for our competitor all at $350.00. Those dollars were all put back into the shop. I have a wood and metal shop almost completely outfitted with projects for my employer.


Good.

......................