4x6 Metal Bandsaw Mods

[panofish]

A few simple mods really improve a chinese bandsaw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUsMVYyHWPc

[BobL]

A few simple mods really improve a chinese bandsaw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUsMVYyHWPc

I realise this might sound somewhat cynical but find it hard to believe someone bothered to make a video of fitting a wooden base and changing the legs and bandsaw gear box oil and to then call this a way to tune up a chinese bandsaw. I was expecting to see something more significant like fitting ceramic blade guides or adding a coolant tank or something of a worthwhile nature.

[outback]

Have you seen this?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/jglass/Automation%20Projects/barfeeder6.jpg

see it run (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v30/jglass/Automation%20Projects/?action=view&current=barfeederdropend.mp4)

These 4 x 6 saws are famous for the saw blade jumping off the pulleys. There are several reasons for the blade doing this. However, I mounted
an aluminum plate to the frame to prevent the blade from jumping off the drive pulley. Works great and it has been on the saw for 12 years. One screw needs to be removed when replacing saw blades. I never thought this saw would last as long as it has.
I have a new saw still in the box for a backup but have yet to open the box.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/jglass/sawbladejump.jpg
Jim

[sasquatch]

I've never heard much about the blades jumping off these saws, i suspect there has to be something causing this with your'e saw other than these saws are prone to this.

I been using mine for over 10 years, never had a blade jump off.

[Ries]

I have had 4 of these saws since 1978, completely wore out two of em, two still work every day in the shop.
And yes, the blades do jump off.
The ability to adjust the upper wheel for in and out and for angle is very primitive in these saws, and the blade tension is usually quite hard to get tight enough, so if the upper wheel even gets a bit out of whack, the blades will jump, especially when they get dull.

I like Jim's aluminum plate mod- looks like it would work well for this problem.

The best "mod" I have found is to buy a good one in the first place- I buy the Jet saws, which cost a bit more, and usually run straight and true right out of the box, have better quality castings, more meat to em, and just generally are better made.

There is a myth that these all come out of one factory- in reality, the older ones came from 4 or 5 Taiwanese foundries, and were assembled by a couple of dozen small shops- and now that they mostly come from China, there are at least twice as many foundries and twice as many companies making em.
And they do, indeed, vary a lot- I have seen the same nominal size saw with a cast iron top bow that ranged in size and weight by as much as 30%, and I have seen some with no bearings at all, some that will never cut straight at all.

I run mine mostly on stainless, and I have cut literally hundreds of thousands of pieces on em. I consider em to be basically consumable tools- for $250 to $500, they are about the cost of a coolant pump on a real bandsaw, and considering how cheap and flimsy they are, and yet how well they work, they are one of the single best deals in metalworking tools.

Current prices on quality bandsaws start at well over three grand, and can rapidly escalate from there- I dont think the tiniest Amada saw is under $15k. So for a few hundred bucks, the utility is amazing.

I find the single best thing you can do for these is buy a good bimetal blade. A Starrett or Morse or Lenox will improve the performance a lot. I run bigger, higher horsepower aftermarket motors on mine, too- Grizzly sells 3/4hp and 1 Hp motors that bolt right on. If you let the saws run unattended a lot, as I have over the years, sooner or later you will burn a motor, when the blade jams, and the motor cant turn. At that point, upgrade to more horsepower. Some of the really cheap chinese ones come with 1/3hp motors, and even their 1/2hp motors are generously rated, to say the least.

(I still have a couple of the Jet's in the shed for parts- the first one is so old that it was green, the second one, of about 1995 vintage, is gray- all the newer ones are white)

[sasquatch]

The saw i have is an old taiwan built one, it was old and used when i got it in a trade over 10 years ago. Only thing i did other than line it up etc was to change to a Canadian built motor.

These saws are one heck of a great deal, for a shop, but as posted above i see some real flimsy looking new ones at times, they're getting cheap in quality trying to compete.

[BobL]

Have you seen this?
.
.

Now that is what I call a tune up.:D

These little saws are amazing. Last night mine made a 220 mm cut in a 16 mm thick piece of steel, It took about 15 minutes but it did it.

[Rex]

+1 on the Jet saws. I used a HF for years, workd fine, but took care to move it around lest the legs collapse! The Jet is so much nicer, the material is heavier, it just works better. I have since scored a Marvel 612, but the Jet is a keeper.

[Boucher]

My blade frequently jumps off and it is a PITA. Will try the plate to improve.

A good improvment project for the 4X6 is shown here.
http://www.homemetalshopclub.org/projects/sawstand/sawstand.html

[lynnl]

I realise this might sound somewhat cynical but find it hard to believe someone bothered to make a video of fitting a wooden base and changing the legs and bandsaw gear box oil and to then call this a way to tune up a chinese bandsaw. I was expecting to see something more significant like fitting ceramic blade guides or adding a coolant tank or something of a worthwhile nature.

:D
I didn't watch the video BobL, but I know where you're coming from.

I'm amazed at some of the drivel people will bother with putting on a video.

"....hi folks, Marty here. Today I'm going to show you how to open a new box of breakfast cereal...." :D

[DICKEYBIRD]

Shoot, I wish someone'd show me how to open the plastic inner bag in a cereal box. The stupid manufacturer's turn up their RF sealer machines so high the bags are permanently welded together and won't split apart neatly like they used to.:mad:

[lynnl]

Shoot, I wish someone'd show me how to open the plastic inner bag in a cereal box. The stupid manufacturer's turn up their RF sealer machines so high the bags are permanently welded together and won't split apart neatly like they used to.:mad:


Well, that's true too, Dickeybird.

I guess I picked a bad example. :)

[outback]

The reason the saw blade jump off the drive wheel is the blade hits a snag in the saw kerf and stops the blade. The drive wheel keeps on turning against a blade that won't move and in a couple of turns of the wheel the blade works
its way off the drive wheel. This is why my plate works.

Another thing I have noticed when sawing near the end of a cut is the cut piece can swing upward and work just like a disk brake caliper, pinching the blade and stop it cold in its tracks. Usually the saw swarf under the stock makes it work like a disk brake. Keep the cutting area clean seems to reduce problems.

The problem with my "Saw blade retaining block" is when the blade snags and stops moving sometimes the drivewheel also stops leaving slippage in one area??? The drive belt!!!!! I have completely burned up the plastic belt guard and 2 drive belts because the blade snagged I the saw was running and I was not around the stop the saw. Scary because the shop fills up with smoke.

Bi-metal blade are the only way to go. I gave away some new flex back blades to my bro-in-law. I figure the flex back blades are not worth the time
to install.

Oops,,,by the way, my 4 X 6 saw is running. I better go check!!!!

Okay this time but this is what I find sometimes!!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/jglass/meltedguard.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/jglass/Sawpulleys.jpg
Jim

[panofish]

I realise this might sound somewhat cynical but find it hard to believe someone bothered to make a video of fitting a wooden base and changing the legs and bandsaw gear box oil and to then call this a way to tune up a chinese bandsaw. I was expecting to see something more significant like fitting ceramic blade guides or adding a coolant tank or something of a worthwhile nature.

Please realize that there are many levels of experience.
I do appreciate that many on this forum have much more experience than me. I only wished to share what I had done with anyone else that might find it useful.

[Rex]

Please realize that there are many levels of experience.
I do appreciate that many on this forum have much more experience than me. I only wished to share what I had done with anyone else that might find it useful.

Thanks for sharing, you opened up a good discussion.
I bet most of us did not realize you were posting your own work, as opposed to an anonymous website.

[panofish]

Thanks for sharing, you opened up a good discussion.
I bet most of us did not realize you were posting your own work, as opposed to an anonymous website.

Ah... that clarifies it. Sorry if I came across overly defensive.

[DICKEYBIRD]

Okay this time but this is what I find sometimes!!!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/jglass/meltedguard.jpgWow, your motor must be twice as powerful as mine Jim! Mine won't start up on it's own and I have to give the pulley a twist to get it going. Been that way from day one and I intend to replace it....one of these days.:rolleyes:

[KiddZimaHater]

:mad:
Mine won't start up on it's own and I have to give the pulley a twist to get it going. Been that way from day one and I intend to replace it....one of these days
HAHAHAHA... mine too.
Except, I replaced the toasted Chinese motor with a new Baldor (thinking I was smart), and after the first 5 or 6 starts the capacitor died, so now I "Manually" start my bandsaw too.:(

I also agree with DICKEYBIRD about thost stupid cereal bags. Everytime I rip one open, half of the cereal goes flying all over the kitchen. :mad:

[rohart]

I didn't think much of the new table. On mine - similar saw, but sold as portable, and it's just about liftable - there was no table as supplied, and no fittings for one. It's the saw sold by Axminster in the UK as MCB100.

I made a table out of the same 1/4" ally, but I supported it not just at the centre bracket but twice more, with angled ally supports, welded up and removeable. It does take 5 1/2 minutes to dismantle, but then it's strong enough to support three feet of 6" x 6" angle iron without any deflection at all. I can't see his table handling off centre loads.

Yeah, I know, pictures. Maybe I'll edit some snaps in tomorrow.

[BobL]

Please realize that there are many levels of experience.
I do appreciate that many on this forum have much more experience than me. I only wished to share what I had done with anyone else that might find it useful.

I'm sorry if my comment offended you. I do understand that there are many levels of experience. Compared to some others I to am not as experienced or professional as it might sound. :)

I used to have a lot of trouble with the blade coming off but since I read somewhere (I think it was on this forum) that tightening the blade by hand almost to the point where it cannot be tightened any further (not a very technical term I know) I have not had it come off unless the blade jammed in the cut. When I was cutting the 220 mm long cut I released the support tension to absolute minimum and even loaded up the free end of the saw with some lumps of steel and the blade still did not come off.

[RWO]

The flexible legs can be permanetly fixed with this mod. It's amazing how solid the stand becomes.

RWO

http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy247/RWO_photo/DSC005692.jpg

[Mike Nash]

Very nice video panofish! I only caught one 'uh' (at 3:34). :)

I have killed a few blades freehanding cuts in thin materials with both the 4x6 and a handheld bandsaw when the material twisted and caught. I suspect a decent table would prevent that.

I admit to still having the cheesy factory stand on mine and it is definitely too low in horizontal mode, but I like to sit on the saw in vertical mode.

[Clevelander]

A post that George made only about a week ago about being Gentlemen on our web site. While the content may be fairly rudimentary the fellow did take the time to make it and did a nice enough job of what he did. I find it reprehensible that members would find the need to degrade someone elses work. If there is a technical mistake it's fine to make a correction. If it's just that you're not impressed feel free to keep it to yourself, in my opinion condescention is not an attractive trait in people. :mad:

[panofish]

A post that George made only about a week ago about being Gentlemen on our web site. While the content may be fairly rudimentary the fellow did take the time to make it and did a nice enough job of what he did. I find it reprehensible that members would find the need to degrade someone elses work. If there is a technical mistake it's fine to make a correction. If it's just that you're not impressed feel free to keep it to yourself, in my opinion condescention is not an attractive trait in people. :mad:

No big deal... It was just the type of mild misunderstanding that can occur on a forum. I do actually like constructive criticism and take all comments to heart. I need to do a better job of more clearly stating what I am posting.

[panofish]

I can't see his table handling off centre loads.
.

I mostly cut light aluminum and plastics, so I don't expect any problems, but I'll keep you posted since I haven't cut much yet with the new table.

[ak95xj]

Mine (harbor freight) would swing down on an angle vertically ,therefore the pieces cut were never square.No way to adjust it... I cut the brackets that it pivots on off of the saw..Took a plate and welded some new brackets to it..Bolt the plate to the saw..I put a couple small setscrews through the plate so I can jack one side up as necessary until it did come down straight..

[TGTool]

I noticed mine wasn't very straight recently and decided it was because the guides that twist the blade were worn and maladjusted. It was a good opportunity to clean things up and readjust. The gap between the bearings that do the twist was way too wide and I was supposed to put a wrench on the bearing stud to turn the eccentric. Unfortunately it needs a thin wrench and is hard to reach so I slotted the end of the studs for a screwdriver. Now it's like a rocker arm adjustment - turn the screwdriver and tighten the locknut. It was also much more convenient to take the whole assembly off and set the gap with a free blade, then put the assembly back and finish the up-down setting.

[Davo J]

When I bought mine used 10-15 years ago the sheet metal blade door had nearly been cut through from the blade coming off and cutting it.

After some adjustments I have never had the blade come off, it's only after I have worked the blade to death that it will end up breaking and coming off.

Maybe it's an alignment problem from factory why you guys are having trouble with blades coming off.

Here is my little saw cutting 140mm steel, I had 5 cuts to do in this.

http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af26/top720/Bandsaw/Picture2337Large.jpg

Dave

[Paul Alciatore]

The number of mods and improvements for these handy saws is legend. I believe more than one article has appeared in our sponsor's magazines and they probably won't be the last ones. I also have made several mods to mine including a chip shield over the motor to keep the chips out of it.

I have heard about the flimsy leg problem many times. I have a Grizzly and have never had a bit of a problem with them. It does have a tray about half way down the legs and that apparently provides a lot of extra stability.

[KIMFAB]

I willed my old 4 X 6 to my son along with a bunch of square tubing for him to play with.

This is what he ended up with.

http://www.kimfab.com/pictures/forum/saw.jpg

The wheels are about 1/2" off the floor when setting, the front is lifted by a removable bar secured in the front.

[EVguru]

Here is my little saw cutting 140mm steel, I had 5 cuts to do in this.

http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af26/top720/Bandsaw/Picture2337Large.jpg



You're using the coolant flow to wash the chips off the blade before they go through the guide bearings, but you're not getting much benefit in the cut.

Why not fit a Tee in the coolant hose and feed the beginning of the cut too.

[Davo J]

You're using the coolant flow to wash the chips off the blade before they go through the guide bearings, but you're not getting much benefit in the cut.

Why not fit a Tee in the coolant hose and feed the beginning of the cut too.

I did think of fitting a T in it when I fitted it a few few years ago, but after trials I found the coolant gets carried around with the blade so it gets it on the in feed side as well.

You can see in the photo I posted the coolant on the infeed bearing, and in the photo below you can see how much gets carried around with the blade to the infeed side.

If I thought it needed it I would install another one as I have plenty of T fittings and flexible coolant lines, but it has been running like this for years with no problems. What I was mostly aiming for was to wash the chips off the blade so it doesn't get carried around the pulleys, and it does a good job at that.

http://i990.photobucket.com/albums/af26/top720/Bandsaw/Picture2338Large.jpg

Dave

[RussZHC]

The gap between the bearings that do the twist was way too wide and I was supposed to put a wrench on the bearing stud to turn the eccentric. Unfortunately it needs a thin wrench and is hard to reach so I slotted the end of the studs for a screwdriver.

agreed, I found not having such a thin wrench a PITA to the point of just taking the whole block off and fiddling with it up on a bench.

The saw I bought recently from Busy Bee (on recommendation of several on this forum) has been pretty good right out of the box with the exception of the blade guides but it was expected so...), the only other bit was, don't know what to call it, the little metal piece used in horizontal mode where the larger "table" screws on for vertical, anyway, that little metal piece was too tall and the saw would switch off properly but not be all the way through, adjusting the stop bolt did not help, turn out...
stock blade was junk, lots done and quickly and really straight with those Diemaster blades though