What a nerve some people have!

[Alistair Hosie]

My elderly pal Fred nearly eighty has been doing some unpaid work for a guy he hardly knows just the kind of guy he is trying to help people.He has rolled and silver soldered the guys boiler to hi spec performance using his own silver solder and gas.He also made anumber of jigs to help the guy.without a word of thanks just grumbling. Everytime(not often as fred is not a nuisance)Fred telephoned the guy he would hear him mutter to his wife what the hell does he want or mutter and make unfriendly remarks when fred tried to contact him today he telephoned and heard the guy complain to his wife that he didn't want to be disturbed and said tell him to phone me tomorrow.Fred telephoned him right back and gave him a piece of his mind telling him he didn't mind working for free but was not willing to put up with nasty remarks and dogs abuse, he then told the guy to pick up his stuff and go elsewhere.I was furious old Fred telephoned me all shaking and really upset the guy called for his stuff and never said as much as thanks and walked away.I told him he's better of without such people in his life.I have found in life many people have tried to take kindness for softness have any of you suffered in this way also? Alistair

[MaxHeadRoom]

A friend of mine owned a cottage on a lake, he moved his family to the next province but kept the cottage, he told a 'friend' that if he looked after it and cut the grass etc he could use it whenever, and his family would maybe come in for a month or so each year to use it.
A year or two in to the deal, he phoned to say he would be in for August - September, the 'caretaker' told him it was inconvenient as he had his family coming in to use it at that time.
Guess what happened to the 'Caretaker'. :rolleyes:
Max.

[flylo]

I learned you really don't know who your friends really are after major back surgery 21/2 years ago & was confined to the house on a walker for well over 12 months. I was always the one one with the hunting camp, planes,hangers, shop, tools, etc. I always shared never charging my friends for anything. If I went hunting I thought it doesn't cost anymore for a couple of friends to go. In the process I lost my job of 30+ years, my big hanger was destroyed by a tornado. My old buddies now are no where to be found & if I need help I hire it. Which in fact I've always made sure any help was compensated for in some way even with my kids. I was taught to pay my own way & I always have. Turns out I had lot of friends that were just plain leeches. I called my hunting buddy & ask if he wanted to buy the camp after he told me he just had the best year of his life. He said no but still uses it. I think after all that happened this losing so called friends bothered mr the worst. Life goes on & mine has no rear view mirror & I'm not handicapped just hindered a bit, No sticker on my truck & I don't used the blue spaces either. True friends are rare & to be treasured!

[Mcgyver]

Welcome to the age of ignorance - people do not know how to behave. It was predicted with the onset of daycare generations....the prediction and logic was children would not learn or be taught things like manners as well as they didn't seek the approval as much from the stranger/care giver than they would a parent there bby limiting ability to influence behaviours. That and the caregiver just wants the day over. The other part is being raised by strangers would make them sort of introverted, more in tune with their wants and far less aware of the feelings/pain of others, Children raised 'on their own'

i was at Mom`s over the weekend. She had had a neighborhood get together. Sent out invites with an RSVP....50% of the people didn't not RSVP! and several who didn't showed up anyway!! A minor thing perhaps but not really in that there's a microcosm in a reasonably well to do country area (meaning they`re mostly from the Canadian culture) and yet 1/2 are socially inept.

[bobw53]

No good deed goes unpunished.

I've had the biggest BS hassles in my life just trying to help people out.

Sucks, but it seems that's how it works.

[lynnl]

I think it was Mark Twain who said, "Help a man out when he's in trouble, and he'll always remember you ...when he's in trouble again."

[Forrest Addy]

My story:

Some years ago a neighbor up on the hill had a steep driveway. He re-graded the crest from the road shoulder into his driveway doing away with the gutter but making it easier to drive downhill into his garage. Fulfilling predictions, storm water from a heavy rain cascaded down his driveway into the garage under the door into the lower part of his split level.

The water was three feet deep before it was discovered in the morning. There was so much water coming in it was gaining on the leakage around the door and the sliding glass door - which looked in danger of blowing out. A quick decision and we opened the wood door against the water pressure breaking it in the process. A 3 ft wall of water swept two of us (me included) into the rockery where we were bruised and cut up. The floating sofa drifted over and smashed a cheap coffee table and the TV fell of its stand into the water in all the commotion.

The water drained as two more guys trenched the flow around the house which eventually eroded to a couple feet deep. So, the rain ended with a little canyon, some washed away landscaping, a busted door soaked carpet and damaged furniture (mostly cheap stuff). We stayed for hours to squeegee and vaccum water, arrange stuff to dry, get the flooded furnace to work (Sunday of course). I dragged in a big furnace blower I had to ventillate the drowned rooms. Seven guys (I think) worked their butts off for maybe 6 hours to mitigate the effects of the flood.

Naturally, the guy sued the city for storm run-off, his neighbors for damages, and he probably would have sued God for the rain if He could have been served with a summons.

The city showed signed written reciept of notification by the city engineer of the results of the unauthorized grading and was even then prosecuting for work performed without a permit. Us neighbors pooled for an attorney and we got off at the show-cause hearing under a Good Samaritan defense. My share for the attorney was $180 in 1972. That was most of a paycheck.

We got two more years of sulking and dirty looks both directions before the bastards finally moved away. Some people: it's always the other guy's fault.

[rohart]

I used to do odd jobs for a good long term friend. At one point I'd installed a water filter by the kitchen sink. Then came the day when I was asked to replace the filter. My pal was out for the day but his wife was in.

I started work. Then I asked her to move some stuff around so I could continue with the job.

A tradesman came to the door and was invited in. She said to me, "I'll do what you want in a minute. I've got to see this chap first. We're paying him."

They're paying him. He's getting paid for his time. I'm doing it for free, so I can sit around waiting.

I picked up my tools and left. We're not friends any more. I just could not get over that attitude.

[Alistair Hosie]

Most of my problems came from jealous friends and especially family when we sold out 27 bedroom hotel 23 years ago I did pretty well out of it and was imediately inundated with requests for loans and help. I did my mothers roof ,new central heating, carpetted her house from top to bottom ,and bought her all new furniture.I did likewise with brothers and sisters and discovered they were planning how to screw me for money behind my back my own mother told me a pack of extremely elaborate lies as did my brothers and sister till one day I said enough is enough I found them talking behind my wifes back too eventually I stopped seeing them since then 2 of my brothers have died and my sister never even told me she told my cousin every week they were both fine and he kept me informed despite one of my brothers being dead for over ayear and the other was killed stabbed to death by his wife.Needless to say I now have nothing to do with any of them and feel much better too.I didn't do anything to deserve this and for a while I didn't want to make new friends and grew very distrustful of a lot of people I know as many of them borrowed money and that was the last I saw of them.They borrowed I found out deliberately already deciding not to pay me back as they saw my kindness as a soft touch.I still have about four real friends and a cousin that I love them all they have remained true despite all over the years.Alistair ps sorry for the rant.

[oil mac]

I know where Alistair is coming from with this one, Alistair, "Welcome to the jungle" People can be B******S big time, Along with Alistair i have met old Fred also, Fred is one of lives gentlemen, a really good competent engineer, Also as Alistair says the type of guy who will help anybody, and it is very sad to hear of his kindness being treated as weakness & his generous spirit being misused.

In this world of hard knocks, it sometimes takes a long time to wise up , The reason for this i do not know, possibly as a craftsman, we let our hearts over rule our heads, & do not see the bigger picture of mans total rotten-ness & deceipt until it is too late, we somehow feel we are helping & the joy of working at something we love, blinds us from the truth

In this situation i sadly am no exception, That is until some years back the scales fell from my eyes (metaphorically speaking) & i wised up, learned to say No big time! sent others packing with a flea in their ears, developed a couldnt care less attitude + dont know how to do things any longer, Also adopted the Russian diplomats statement "come back in the year nine, nine, nine nine. & generally nowadays with rare exceptions only do my own thing , Couple this with "I do not lend out any tools thank you!" Guess you have got the measure of old oil mac guys.

What brought about this sea change in my psyche, after years of being taken for a total mug, Well it was the realisation that i was getting no where with my own projects &hobbies & like old fred, I was being totally being used and abused

Two guys especially pissed me off big time The first was right into ancient cars, For years, i would be relaxing phone would ring about twice a week, "Hey Dan, i have a little job i want doing" The damned job would be geenormous would take up the rest of the week generally, The same guy was rolling rich, & would never say to the wife , Here is some flowers or sweets as a thank you, The final crunch came, when i carried out a really nice machining job for him, & due to his or his buddies bad fitting workmanship seized up a transmission, & his wife phoned up & very snippily asked "Do you usually turn out inferior work? Well after that the party was over..

The next so & so is a real bundle of fun, for some years i was generous in spirit to this guy, gave him a real big rake of surplus tools away on occasions, helped big time always was generous with my time , Helped to ease the way for him to purchase nice equipment from a good friend at a real bargain basement price, But my wife was always a bit terse &suspicious of the guy , did not really take to him, which over the years should have been to me a warning However one day a good friend of mine l gave him some electrical equipment away free gratis, How was he rewarded ? Well our man goes into an armaure winder and bad mouths my friend for "selling" him rubbish! It was a real pity the armature winder was my friends buddy , Although i got the fall out from that spat also

Later on i was in my workshop & on my bench was a particularly accurate & nice machine assembly I had just finished machining & fitting Our man says " I would not waste my time making that" & stumps out, Guess i am better of without him & his bosum pal also

WE are taught to show kindness to every man, scripture asks us to do that But hey guys do not throw your pearls before swine, Less they be consumed.

[sasquatch]

i've only been stung very few times in my life, i consider myself very lucky, had a few morons hangin around for awhile, but they gradually disappeared after getting the message.

[A.K. Boomer]

Dang Alistair - that's got to hurt bro, esp. your own mother,,, very sorry to hear it.

I feel very fortunate family wise - iv got a great one - we all get along and there are many of us, it's not perfect - but it's real...
As far as friends - I have very few and plan on keeping it that way,
I got rid of a couple douche bags quite awhile back and really don't have any kind of urgency to replace them - for the most part I like my space and value my own company and my dogs...


I still help people out once in while here and there but nothing too crazy, and I barter with an old GF car work for cleaning, That's the one thing about being single - I hate to clean, just hate it --- I know this sounds terrible but I feel it's "beneath" me, I really think its a womans job - lol I know that sounds terrible too - but they are darn good at it and it doesn't seem to depress them - I think cleanings depressing... so im basically a slob...

[uncle pete]

I've been burned more than a few times also. But there's still lots of people around who are the opposite. I've helped quite a few where they couldn't do enough to try and thank me. I try and do the same when someone helps me.

Pete

[KiddZimaHater]

I've been burned just enough times to know how to say NO!!
Doing something once is helping someone out.
Doing something twice is a special favor.
Do something thrice, and the free help begins to be expected of you.
If you nip it in the bud right off the bat, people will be less inclined to take advantage.

[sasquatch]

There isn't a nicer feeling than going and helping out someone in a fun way.

Back a few years ago a guy i knew who was in the 1rst stages of MS had no firewood, (He used to cut his own for years,) so i got about 12 guys together, we landed there in the morning, by nightfall we had ALL his firewood down, blocked and split, and piled beside his house.

Had a great fun time, playing jokes on each other throughout the day, then when finished we all sat down to a big supper, (Wives brought all the food,)

Makes for a fun time doing that.

(never told the guy we were comming as he would of refused the help, a very stubborn independant guy.):D

[TGTool]

I think it was Mark Twain who said, "Help a man out when he's in trouble, and he'll always remember you ...when he's in trouble again."

I think I remember another Twain quote, "Give a starving dog a meal and he won't bite you. This is the main difference between a dog and a human." :D

[flylo]

Quote WE are taught to show kindness to every man, scripture asks us to do that But hey guys do not throw your pearls before swine, Less they be consumed.

Scripture also says "turn the other cheek" But I don't believe it meant to become a pinwheel. I really think my friend has changed for the worse. Now all his friends are his kids friends. Last time they were there I found over 600 beer cans thrown on the ground. Parties over!

[oldtiffie]

This really is an "Agony Aunt" thread - isn't it? Almost straight out of the "Advice" columns in Womens magazines etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agony_aunt

http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/agony+aunt.html

http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&gs_nf=1&cp=7&gs_id=s&xhr=t&q=agony+aunt&pf=p&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&rlz=1W1IRFC_enAU360&oq=agony+a&aq=0&aqi=g4&aql=&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=ba97ee93759442a6&biw=1280&bih=549

I learned quite a while ago - mainly by observation but increrasingly less often - the Mr. Nice Guy and Mr. "Go to guy" all too often end up being Mr. Sucker and Mr. Naivety - and Mr. Derided and Laughed At and a soft touch and sucker all too often of his own making.

There are quite lot of those who are really skilled in finding and taking advantages of all-to-willing "softies" and suckers for a soft touch and a truly plaintive and an apparantly well rehearsed and targetted tale of woe and deprivation goes with it.

Those who brag about what they got you to do for them - often as consideraable time and effort and often quite inconveniently - doen't help you when you find out and the "penny drops".

Some feel deceived, others feel badly let down and others lose their faith in human nature and can get quite depressed.

My "success rate" is pretty good as because of seeing what happens to others it pretty well makes my case for being a bit cynical to approaches for help in all its guises - work-shop related stuff and money being very much included.

[mike4]

I have developed a reputation of being an unfriendly type who doesnt do any thing for free .
That came about from exactly the same things that some have said earlier .

I dont see the funny side of wrecking your equipment to "help" some leech who only badmouths you later .

If they cant afford to pay for time and materials then no work.

My saying when I did do work for the general public was "no mun no fun"

or to those who dont understand , if you dont pay for my work I keep your goods .
Michael

[beanbag]

I'm waiting to see Frank Ford's non-bitter take on this issue.

[MrFluffy]

I get the above with knobs on. I live in rural France, born in the UK but been here 10 years and every single other english person seems to think I'm their best buddy and go to guy, and will do anything for them for free. And the worst culprits gather together in "english" bars to work it all out, and how best to get me to do whatever (usually employing the route of my wife's parents...)

Contrast that to one of the local's carrying a piece of tractor or motorbike or old car needing something, that's my passion and its interesting so I'm ok, happy to have a cup of coffee or a glass of pastis and talk machines while we get it done. We've straightened out baler's mid harvest and other bits, and they always drop a bottle of something in for the wife or some other gesture afterwards because they understand and appreciate the value of what was done. And it works in reverse of course, I always know where I can borrow a telehandler etc.

I come from a big family, after my mum died, I haven't had much to do with them either, its all schemes and plans constantly. Happily I have a sea separating me from them now so can avoid it.

I think this applies to this situation :-

I bought a bird feeder. I hung it on my back porch and filled it with seed. What a beauty of a bird feeder it is, as I filled it lovingly with seed. Within a week we had hundreds of birds taking advantage of the continuous flow of free and easily accessible food.

But then the birds started building nests in the boards of the patio, above the table, and next to the barbecue. Then came the poop. It was everywhere: on the patio tile, the chairs, the table … everywhere!

Then some of the birds turned mean. They would dive bomb me and try to peck me even though I had fed them out of my own pocket. And others birds were boisterous and loud. They sat on the feeder and squawked and screamed at all hours of the day and night and demanded that I fill it when it got low on food.

After a while, I couldn’t even sit on my own back porch anymore. So I took down the bird feeder and in three days the birds were gone. I cleaned up their mess and took down the many nests they had built all over the patio.Soon, the back yard was like it used to be … quiet, serene and no one demanding their rights to a free meal.

[digger_doug]

Alistair,
I want to thank you for starting this thread, and
to all the poster's who took the time to tell their stories.

It really made my day, I have had a couple of people
I bent over backwards for (some for several years)
and had the same dis-pleasure that have been written
about here.

The latest was on Monday....

You really helped me, by showing we are not alone.

[Alistair Hosie]

Thanks digger pal we all have had what I describe as our kindness beingb taken for softness and being seen as a pushover sometimes the nicer kinder you are some thing that this means they can take full advantage. Have a great life digger and enjoy your workshop I do. Alistair

[Alistair Hosie]

As far as my mother sister are concerned yes they have caused me a lot of anxiety but I have a true love of my life Bronwen to whom I have been married forty years and three wonderful children now grown up and a wondeful daughter in law Lucie that we both adore and a lovely grandson Reuben.I feel I have evrything I need and am generally happy with my life. I thanks you all for your responses and just wish to add OIL MAC MY very good pal Dan is one of the nicest human beings you could ever wish to meet a true gentleman and I wish some of you could know him and his lovely wife margaret.Thaks dan, Alistair

[SilveradoHauler]

Yes, all of the above really hits home with me!

I grew up in a heavy truck repair shop complete with machine tools. Learned lots of skills. Worked my way through industrial machining and picked up more knowledge, all the time buying tools and machinery for my "backyard" shop.

Went through the same experiences: Everybody than knew me instantly wanted to become my best friend and take advantege of my machining skills, not to mention the use of my materials for their projects!

Not a one of them offered to pay for time expended or to restock the steel racks or pay for some of the tooling expended.

18 years ago I moved to a small rural town, built a very nice shop and finally had a nice place with enough room for all the machinery.

You betcha I kept a low profile in the new location! Not a word spoken to anyone about my skills or equipment, just work on my stuff now.

But last year I had a lapse of judgement and did a 10 hour machining job for a gent restoring some "Old Iron". Not a word of thanks, not even a doughnut and cup of coffee!! If the local job shop had done the job it would have ran to at least $750 plus material. Lucky for me the guy lives 2000 miles away and will not be a drop in problem. Heck, I even paid for the UPS shipping!!! Real dumb on my part.

Lesson learned again, I just chalk it up to giving away 10 hours of my life for nothing. Now I absolutely follow the NAVY principle:

Never Again Volunteer Yourself

PS, relatives are the worst offenders! Lucky again, I grew up in Georgia but now live in Washington state, no problem with relatives dropping by. My poor Dad had thousands invested in doing work for relatives with absolutely no pay what so ever.

[oldtiffie]

Sometimes its your own fault - at least in part - if you "show off" or brag about what you've got and what you can do.

It can be a sure-fire way to attract "new best friends" - and their friends too.

Not just tools and jobs either - as "money" can be just as attractive.

[justanengineer]

Welcome to the age of ignorance - people do not know how to behave.

No they dont. I was reminded of a great example of this a few days ago.

Last year I had the privelege of attending the company division's new engineer orientation, which is a rather important event complete with technical, business, marketing etc classes taught by senior management. When I say "senior management," think expensive suits and chauffeurs. This event was held near corporate hq, several hundred miles from my location, and only a small handful of us attended from here for the week long training. We carpooled over together, arrived and sat together, were welcomed by a VP, then we began the usual "stand up and tell us about yourself...name, alma mater, hobbies etc" bit. Much to my embarrassment from being from the same location, sitting with him, and appearing friendly/generally being associated with him, one young idiot from my group tells his name, alma mater and then says with a bit of a sneer, "my only hobbies lately have been attending STUPID training I dont need and generally wasting time and company dollars to do so..."

The sad part is he did not see anything wrong with what he did, and needless to say he was unemployed by the end of that week.