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A.K. Boomer
05-28-2012, 12:33 PM
I know they took the lead out of electronics but are lead wheel weights banned now? what kind of substitute is there for good ole fashioned lead for weight besides gold...
I can see a lighter still conductive material for electronics but wheel weights need to be compact and heavy,

I don't like all this fiddling about with things weve been using for decades ---- first they took the lead out of all my paint chips - u know how bad those olestra chips taste? plus they give me really bad gas...

duckman
05-28-2012, 12:36 PM
The last wheel weights that I melted were lead with a plastic type coating on them.

wierdscience
05-28-2012, 12:50 PM
Some states have banned Lead wheel weights and new cars come equiped either with Zinc or coated Steel.

http://www.perfectequipment.com/

lazlo
05-28-2012, 12:54 PM
I know they took the lead out of electronics

Not exactly.

The European Union RoHS (Restriction of Hazardous Substances Directive) started going into effect in 2006, so consumer electronics sold in the EU can't use lead solder. About the same time, the low-level radioactivity in lead solder was enough to pose a FIT (single-event upset) issue with the transistor densities on modern semiconductor devices.

So many of the US manufacturers started switching over to lead-free solder to solve both problems.
There's a learning curve, hence "bump cracking" et al.

But you can still buy lead, lead shot, lead solder, ... 63/37 solder is great stuff!

http://www.amazon.com/Alpha-Metals-AM31605-3OZ-032Elec-Solder/dp/B000G36BYU

dp
05-28-2012, 12:55 PM
Tires and vehicles that go fast enough to reveal balance problems with them can't be too far down the things to be banned list. Before too long the world will be too safe to live in.

lazlo
05-28-2012, 01:17 PM
Before too long the world will be too safe to live in.

I have lead plumbing, and eat on lead plates. Hasn't affected me at all. Off to give my bull some lovin'... ;)

radkins
05-28-2012, 01:57 PM
I collect wheel weights for bullet casting and the Lead variety is rapidly being replaced with both Zinc and Iron weights. It's a good thing really because the mortality rate of hitch-hikers has sky-rocketed in the last few years from eating Lead wheel weights they find alongside the road, something had to be done!:rolleyes:

lazlo
05-28-2012, 02:12 PM
I just checked, and lead fishing weights are widely available too. So if wheel weights are being replaced with other alloys, it's because of cost.

A quick Google search confirms:


http://www.leadfreewheels.org/

Internationally, the use of lead wheel weights has been banned in the European Union since 2005. Progress in North America has been slow because of the EPA's refusal to, as of yet, implement any regulation of lead-wheel weight use.

Bob Fisher
05-28-2012, 04:47 PM
Rohs, Recovery of hazardous substances, I believe. Bob F.

Alistair Hosie
05-28-2012, 05:09 PM
I don't think Gold would be practical though it would work.let me know your address if you go down that route:DAlistair

The Artful Bodger
05-28-2012, 05:58 PM
Let me know if you want some cheap gold as I expect to have plenty once my alchemy kit arrives from Nigeria.:D

customcutter
05-28-2012, 06:16 PM
I use tungsten shot instead of lead. It's selling for about $60/lb the last time I checked. At 2 oz per shell that gets pretty pricey, but I only use it for turkey hunting. I've also seen tungsten shot for fishing sinkers.

Ken

rohart
05-28-2012, 06:45 PM
Cadmium's the latest element to make its exodus from solder over here. And I thought depleted uranium was all the rage. But seriously, bismuth was being touted a while back as a heavy and soft replacement for lead in its various guises.

What we need is for someone to invent a heavy plastic - a dense polymer with some heavyish elements in it.

Zinc, for weights ? That's a laugh. Useful to cut corrosion in the winter salt though, I suppose.

I think that lead fishing weights have been banned on the Thames - swans ate them and didn't feel too good afterwards.

darryl
05-28-2012, 07:33 PM
I don't know if swans felt sick after eating lead weights, but they probably got too heavy to fly :)

customcutter
05-28-2012, 08:23 PM
Cadmium's the latest element to make its exodus from solder over here.
I worked for a company for a very short period of time that was recovering heavy metals from NiCd batteries used by the Navy in nuclear subs. I was told that if a human absorbs 40 milligrams during a life time they are dead. No if's and's or but's. Also no way to remove it once absorbed, and yes it can be absorbed through the skin I was told.

Don't throw your NiCd batteries in the trash to be incinerated. Dispose of them properly.

Ken

Black_Moons
05-28-2012, 08:29 PM
I worked for a company for a very short period of time that was recovering heavy metals from NiCd batteries used by the Navy in nuclear subs. I was told that if a human absorbs 40 milligrams during a life time they are dead. No if's and's or but's. Also no way to remove it once absorbed, and yes it can be absorbed through the skin I was told.

Don't throw your NiCd batteries in the trash to be incinerated. Dispose of them properly.

Ken

You should be getting more business soon. I have heard that many of the assembleys in the space shuttles where cadnium plated!

aboard_epsilon
05-28-2012, 08:33 PM
so depleted uranium is out then.

if they use zinc or steel they are going to have to put more of them on .

will make the wheels look ugly

all the best.markj

lazlo
05-28-2012, 08:44 PM
I worked for a company for a very short period of time that was recovering heavy metals from NiCd batteries used by the Navy in nuclear subs. I was told that if a human absorbs 40 milligrams [of cadmium] during a life time they are dead. No if's and's or but's. Also no way to remove it once absorbed, and yes it can be absorbed through the skin I was told.

Yes, cadmium is highly toxic.


20 tons of cadmium poisoning vital Chinese river
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/9053671/20-tons-of-cadmium-poisoning-vital-Chinese-river.html

Twenty tons of the cancer-causing metal cadmium have been discharged into a river in southern China in one of the worst chemical spills of its kind that could affect up to 4 million people.

Even considering China's notoriously poor environmental record, the spill in Guangxi Province is huge with officials describing it as "unprecedented".
In 2005, the discharge of just over 6 tons of cadmium into a tributary of the Pearl River in Guangdong Province prompted a massive pollution scare and cut off water supplies for over 100,000 people.

The scale of the disaster in Guangxi is far larger, with millions of people already affected. Experts from China's Ministry of Environmental Protection (MEP) believe at least 200 miles of the Liujiang River is at risk.

The Liujiang is downstream of the Longjiang River, where the cadmium discharge occurred, and is the main source of drinking water for the 3.7 million residents of the city of Liuzhou.

On Monday, cadmium levels in the Longjiang River were 80 times higher than the safe limit.

oldtiffie
05-28-2012, 08:45 PM
Lead ingestion and poisoning can be serious.

http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&gs_nf=1&cp=25&gs_id=3g&xhr=t&q=lead+poisoning+port+pirie&pf=p&rlz=1W1IRFC_enAU360&sclient=psy-ab&oq=lead+poisoning+port+pirie&aq=0&aqi=g1&aql=&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=696f04903ec9d5bc&biw=1280&bih=545

http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&rlz=1W1IRFC_enAU360&sclient=psy-ab&q=lead+poisoning+mount+isa&rlz=1W1IRFC_enAU360&oq=lead+poisoning+mount+isa&aq=f&aqi=g-K1g-bK1g-q1&aql=&gs_l=hp.12..0i30j0i8i30j0i22.132343.139664.2.15195 8.19.17.1.0.0.5.410.4742.2-6j8j1.15.0...0.0.vFkr2YhUgFM&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=696f04903ec9d5bc&biw=1280&bih=545

firbikrhd1
05-28-2012, 09:27 PM
Before it's over the environmentalists will make the world so no one will care whether they live or die. Everything that really works well will be banned and we'll be left with medicines that don't work because the ones that did work contained a hazardous substance. Banning of lead was only the beginning of the craziness. I doubt there is a such thing, but it would be interesting to see an accurate study of how many people died or were injured by by products containing lead (other than bullets) during years before these bans compared to present time. Estimates of how many people or animals were "saved" would be bogus because there is no way to actually confirm a statistic like that.

I don't know where it all started; perhaps DDT, then leaded gasoline, later Freon 12 now all HCFCs. Even CO2 is now considered a threat. I guess we better stop breathing soon or we'll die. Is that an oxymoron?

vpt
05-28-2012, 10:13 PM
Yes, many fishing jigs went to tungsten. I want to say some weights went to tin possibly.

lazlo
05-29-2012, 12:14 AM
Banning of lead was only the beginning of the craziness.

Lead is not banned in the US.

Ian B
05-29-2012, 05:39 AM
Lead, cadmium banned? Ha - come to the Netherlands! I'm in the process of getting double glazed windows, and it seems that they can no longer contain argon, as it might leak out and pollute the atmosphere.

I hadn't realised what a problem that was, until i found that argon is the 3rd commonest atmospheric gas (as against that other deadly toxic gas, CO2, which comes a measly fourth).

Staggers me to think how many old double glazing units must have leaked to cause that - wouldn't know where else it came from :rolleyes:

Ian

aboard_epsilon
05-29-2012, 08:16 AM
Lead, cadmium banned? Ha - come to the Netherlands! I'm in the process of getting double glazed windows, and it seems that they can no longer contain argon, as it might leak out and pollute the atmosphere.

I hadn't realised what a problem that was, until i found that argon is the 3rd commonest atmospheric gas (as against that other deadly toxic gas, CO2, which comes a measly fourth).

Staggers me to think how many old double glazing units must have leaked to cause that - wouldn't know where else it came from :rolleyes:

Ian

HOLD ON A MIN ........THEY GET THE ARGON OUT OF THE AIR IN THE FIRST PLACE ........
so when they do this the atmosphere is minus the argon they took out....so anything leaking out of DG units is going back to where it came from.

co2......they have an argument there ...as co2 can be released from stuff that is millions of years old ...were argon ..can be put into DG units and released maybe 20 years later ....into an atmosphere that is already depleted of argon ..


all the best..markj

oldtiffie
05-29-2012, 08:26 AM
If they banned argon there would be an awful lot of people who relied on MIG and TIG etc. getting a bit pi$$ed off.

aboard_epsilon
05-29-2012, 08:34 AM
what does my head in ...

they have made all domestic brushing paints here low voc.....low in Volatile organic compounds

have you ever tried to use these paints

impossible outside in the winter .....takes maybe two weeks for undercoat/primer to go off ..before you can rub it down.

were the old stuff you could be rubbing it down the next day ..in the winter ...within hours in the summer ....and getting on with the job.

the top coat gloss is also impossible to achieve a professional finish with ..

all the best.markj

oldtiffie
05-29-2012, 09:14 AM
Mark,

many acrylic paint manufacturers suggest not painting at less than 11deg C - which at that time - some years ago - I found to be very true. Putting a new coat over a non-dried coat at low temperatures is asking for trouble too - as is painting with the temp too hot (as happens here at times) and if the sun is shining on the stuff to be painted and the brush the paint "drags" and almost dries on the brush.

I asked a contract painter about it recently and he says they've improved high an low temperature qualities recently. He didn't say (I didn't ask him either) that there are additives either in the paint or applied by the painter which are pretty good.

lazlo
05-29-2012, 09:23 AM
I'm in the process of getting double glazed windows, and it seems that they can no longer contain argon, as it might leak out and pollute the atmosphere.

No TIG welding in the Netherlands? :) I've personally dumped thousands of cubic feet of argon into the atmosphere, laying beads.

Considering that argon is an inert gas (hence the TIG), I never thought it would be a problem? ;)

J Tiers
05-29-2012, 09:29 AM
I doubt there is a such thing, but it would be interesting to see an accurate study of how many people died or were injured by by products containing lead (other than bullets) during years before these bans compared to present time. Estimates of how many people or animals were "saved" would be bogus because there is no way to actually confirm a statistic like that.


The Romans got their water through, in many cases, lead pipes.... And eventually, the Romans were good for nothing much, being over-run by "barbarians" (I am myself a "barbarian", so ...), and wasting their time watching 'circuses".

No epidemiological studies, so doesn't meet your requirements.... but it is possible to find more modern evidence of neurological damage from lead ingestion.

That said, lead is naturally in the environment, has useful properties, and is not going to "jump off the table and kill you", as some apparently believe.

If lead use is banned in europe, and cadmium also, we'll no doubt be reading about all the car fires from the lithium battery failures soon. Instead of it costing "only" $500 to replace the battery in a Daimler-Benzz vehicle, it will no doubt cost $1500.

sasquatch
05-29-2012, 09:53 AM
Cadmium plated hardware seems to be getting more in stock , getting difficult to just buy plain black good fasteners.

vincemulhollon
05-29-2012, 10:48 AM
I worked for a company for a very short period of time that was recovering heavy metals from NiCd batteries used by the Navy in nuclear subs. I was told that if a human absorbs 40 milligrams during a life time they are dead. No if's and's or but's. Also no way to remove it once absorbed, and yes it can be absorbed through the skin I was told.

Not likely. Cadmium just isn't that bad for you. Oh its bad, just not that bad.

Probably you are remembering the safety lecture about the nickel (the Ni part of NiCad) refining process. I would guess they were doing the Nickel Mond process? Nickel Carbonyl (which is a liquid at room temp) is to carbon monoxide as common iron rust is to air. Now whats cool about Nickel Carbonyl is that when you heat it, it cracks back down to nickel and carbon monoxide (imagine if merely heating steel made the rust convert back into iron and outgas oxygen, like magic). So the Mond Nickel purification process is reminiscent of a vapor degreaser where cool carbon monoxide dissolves nickel and the liquid carbonyl drips out to be heated to crack the CO back out, repeat. So rather than grease accumulating in the bottom of a vapor degreaser, in the Mond process nickel accumulates at the bottom of the "degreaser". (They don't actually use degreaser hardware, obviously the CO would leak out and kill everybody, this is just giving the concept of how it works where its kinda like a still or retort sorta) Think of liq carbonyl like its liquid carbon monoxide, which it more or less is along with its payload of Nickel.

40 mg of Nickel over a lifetime won't kill you, that's actually kind of funny. Your body contains one or two dozen mg of Ni so four dozen isn't going to be a guaranteed fatality (in fact a "supersized" fat person probably has 4 dozen or so mg of Ni just by size alone). Also if you don't steadily get Ni in your diet or from a multivitamin tablet you'll die a pretty nasty death (kidney failure if I recall). Of course you only need dozens of micrograms of the stuff per day, not 40 mg which is a bit excessive for one meal.

In comparison 40 mg of cadmium, all at once, now that WILL make you sick but probably will not kill you. Happens to artists using cadmium pigments (or used to, anyway) all the time.

Now 40 grams all at once (which isn't much, think like a handful of liquid carbonyl) surely could kill you from CO poisoning alone before the nickel overdose gets to you. You only need a couple ppm for an hour or so in the air and you're dead. Now if there's about thirty grams of air in a mole of air and a mole of air is about a cubic foot (rough estimating), 40 grams of carbonyl in a million cubic feet of air would kill you for sure. A "plant" is about a million cubic feet (very rough estimate, figure a 100 feet cube). So yeah 40 GRAMS not milligrams is just about the right size of carbonyl leak to kill everyone in the plant. Thats probably the figure you're remembering.

The good news about carbonyl is just like carbon monoxide its unstable in air so a minute or two after it leaks out, if your ventilation is any good, its harmless. This is cool because its almost impossible to have a "carbonyl EPA super fund site" unlike dioxins or PCBs the place is inherently harmless about 5 minutes after they pull the plug. The bad news is that like carbon monoxide, carbonyl burns pretty well in air so a leak is an unimaginably big problem once it catches fire.

Its kind of like telling people metal shops are scary and they kill people so they should be scared of them and avoid them at all costs. That's somewhat exaggerated. Also this "no treatment but death" business is kind of like saying all metalworking accidents inevitably result in decapitation of the operator. My band aid budget would disagree with that conclusion. The usual heavy metal treatments work fine to recover from a heavy metal accident, chelating agents, dialysis, etc. And just like there's not many medical treatment options for a metal working decapitation, there's not much treatment options if you literally fall into a pool of semi-refined cadmium solution and drink a drinking glass worth of it or open an access door of an operating Nickel Mond process plant and inhale deeply.

(signed your local ex-chemist)

firbikrhd1
05-29-2012, 10:53 AM
Lead is not banned in the US.
It is in gasoline and there have been several movements to ban it in ammunition. If they can't ban it they will add a tax to make the price so high no mortal will be able to afford it. We've already heard those word from our President regarding coal usage.

lazlo
05-29-2012, 12:48 PM
Lead is not banned in the US.
It is in gasoline and there have been several movements to ban it in ammunition.

There have been several movement for Texas to secede, but it hasn't happened yet :)

You were lamenting that banning lead was the start of some environmentalist craze, but lead isn't banned. You can still buy lead fishing weights, lead shot, lead bullets, lead wheel weights, lead bars... :confused:


Before it's over the environmentalists will make the world so no one will care whether they live or die. Banning of lead was only the beginning of the craziness.

Read the story I posted above about an industrial plant in China dumping 20 tons of raw cadmium into Longjiang river that supplies drinking water to millions, and decide where you want to draw the line on environmental regulations...

firbikrhd1
05-29-2012, 01:38 PM
There have been several movement for Texas to secede, but it hasn't happened yet :)

You were lamenting that banning lead was the start of some environmentalist craze, but lead isn't banned. You can still buy lead fishing weights, lead shot, lead bullets, lead wheel weights, lead bars... :confused:



Read the story I posted above about an industrial plant in China dumping 20 tons of raw cadmium into Longjiang river that supplies drinking water to millions, and decide where you want to draw the line on environmental regulations...

Speaking of Texas: http://www.texashuntfish.com/app/view/Post/20287/Lead-vs-Steel-Shot The first step toward what I stated.

I am not an advocate of no environmental regulation, just an advocate for common sense. No on eats wheel weights, lead free paint on cribs and baby toys makes sense, lead free paint on the facial boards of my home doesn't.
No matter how strict we make our regulations in the U.S. other nations will continue to do as they please. That drinking water you speak of eventually makes it to the rest of the world as well.

There is a point at which the toll of regulation exceeds the toll of pollution, not only in dollars but in cost to human condition. When the total pollution to manufacture, use and dispose of a product exceeds the pollution caused my a slightly higher polluting but longer lasting product that has an overall smaller environmental footprint than the so called environmentally friendly product, the purpose of that "environmentally friendly" product is defeated. There is a balancing act to perform and it can't be performed with special interest groups and payoffs involved.

Back to lead in gasoline; where is the measurable improvement in human condition since it was banned? Those are the statistics I'd like to see. I don't doubt that tetraethyl lead is bad for you, I just doubt that we received enough of it through normal gasoline usage to cause harm over a lifetime. I realize that it was also banned because of catalytic converters that were supposed to be the answer to our auto pollution problem. That wasn't enough for the environmental crowd, now we also deal with ethanol which ultimately causes more pollution than it prevents.
Want another example of "no common sense" regulations? Look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBnlXGvA1Wk&feature=player_embedded

If this is as it seems to be it fits the mold perfectly.

"Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."-................Daniel Webster

lazlo
05-29-2012, 01:57 PM
Speaking of Texas: http://www.texashuntfish.com/app/view/Post/20287/Lead-vs-Steel-Shot The first step toward what I stated.

That's an article by a local Texas hunting and fishing blog, discussing the toxicity of lead shot in waterfowl, and noting that some private bird hunting preserves now require steel shot, and comparing the efficacy of lead versus steel shot.

How do you get from a bird hunting article to an environmentalist plot to ban lead?



"Each autumn some 2,000,000 hunters take to the fields, forests, and wetlands of the United States and Canada to shoot ducks, geese, and upland game birds (such as dove, pheasant, and grouse). And during a typical season, about 3,000 tons of lead shot is fired, the bulk of which — having missed its mark — falls to the ground or into the water.

Then, within a matter of days after the hunting season opens, researchers have found that autopsied fowl will begin to show up with one or more lead pellets in their gizzards. And as the season continues, the number of birds that have swallowed lead (as well as the pellet count in the individual bodies) increases.

Of course, the lead consumed by the creatures during the few months that they're hunted may not have a dramatic effect on the wild fowl population's health as a whole... but as months pass and the metal is absorbed into the systems of birds that have swallowed it, lead poisoning can result. Therefore, over the course of the winter, some fowl will die as a direct result of eating the toxic element, and many more will contract one or another common avian illness, brought on by a lead-caused weakening of their immune systems. Worse still, some of those sick birds may well initiate epidemics (of cholera, for example) that kill many of their non-poisoned companions. In fact, the available reports indicate that as many as five waterfowl may die from lead related causes for every one that has an actual lethal poisoning.
...
BASIC BALLISTICS

Lead has been the preferred material for forming pellets since the first "scatter gun" was developed . . . and for seemingly good reasons. To begin with, the energy of a moving body is determined by its mass and its velocity. And as you probably know, lead is a very heavy metal. So when this substance is used to make shot shells, a great deal of weight can be packed into each pellet and therefore into the limited space in the casing.

Steel, of course, has a lower mass than lead (its weight is about 68% of that of the toxic metal, per unit of volume), and if equal-sized loads of steel and lead were fired at the same velocity, the latter material would definitely prove to be the superior shot. For example, information developed by Tom Roster of the Oregon Institute of Technology (who's one of the experts on shot ballistics) shows that a load of No. 4 lead (the numbering indicates size . . . higher numbers refer to smaller shot) with a rated velocity of 1,255 feet per second (FPS) will retain 3.65 foot-pounds of energy per pellet at 40 yards, and 2.36 foot-pounds at 60 yards. By contrast, a load of No. 4 steel fired at 1,250 FPS will retain only 2.10 foot-pounds at 40 yards and 1.22 foot-pounds at 60 yards. (It has been estimated that at least 2.0 foot-pounds per pellet is required to produce a clean kill on a duck.)

THE WHAT AND HOW OF STEEL SHOT

It's appropriate to select a steel shot size that's two designations larger than the lead shot you would normally use. For hunting grouse, say, you might try No. 6 or 4 steel rather than No. 8 or 6 lead. In turn, No. 4 or 2 steel works well for most ducks, and No. 2, 1, or BB could be used successfully for geese. A listing of Federal's 12 gauge shells — 2-3/4" long, with 3-3/4-dram equivalent charge — follows:

lazlo
05-29-2012, 02:18 PM
Back to lead in gasoline; where is the measurable improvement in human condition since it was banned? Those are the statistics I'd like to see. I don't doubt that tetraethyl lead is bad for you, I just doubt that we received enough of it through normal gasoline usage to cause harm over a lifetime.

http://toxipedia.org/display/toxipedia/History+of+Lead+Use


"in 1980 the National Academy of Sciences reported that leaded gasoline was the greatest source of environmental lead contamination. In 1979, the effects of lead on the intellectual development of children were documented in a seminal paper written by Herbert Needleman and others.

The relationship between leaded gasoline and blood lead levels was demonstrated when the EPA reported that blood lead levels declined by 37% in association with a 50% drop in the use of leaded gasoline between 1976 and 1980. Subsequent studies showed a correlation between the increase in gasoline use during the summer and a rise in blood lead levels. By 1986 the primary phase-out of lead from gasoline was completed but in some areas of the country, such as Washington State, leaded gasoline was available until 1991. The World Bank called for a ban on leaded gasoline in 1996 and the European Union banned leaded gasoline in 2000."


Do you shoot firearms? I do -- did you ever wonder why the "anti-lead" wipes have become so popular?

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004FOI5RM/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=gunume-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B004FOI5RM

Ever wonder why a lot of shooters that shoot at indoor ranges regularly get their blood tested, and will stop shooting indoors for awhile when their lead level is above 62 ppm? Did you know a lot of cops don't like to shoot indoors because of the elevated lead levels you get?

Avoiding Lead Contamination
http://gunnuts.net/2012/03/01/avoiding-lead-contamination/

Lead poisoning is a concern of many avid shooters.


1) Don’t eat or drink while you’re shooting
2) Clean up at the range

D-Lead wipes are about the best thing ever to have so you can clean up before eating or getting in the car.
3) Take off your shoes
4) Do your laundry

Seriously. Wash your clothes. They’re covered in lead. Just throw them in the washer right when you get home.
5) Take a shower

lakeside53
05-29-2012, 02:20 PM
Around here lead shot is sure taking a toll on the longer-necked water fowl - like swans.

Alistair Hosie
05-29-2012, 03:18 PM
Using lead plates and cooking utensils drinking vessels etc is why many of the Romans became mad and brain damaged early in life .However the gentry used gold and silver and they came out ok. Lead is bad news.Alistair

RWO
05-30-2012, 03:15 PM
http://www.texashuntfish.com/app/view/Post/20287/Lead-vs-Steel-Shot is nearly 30 years old. AFAIK, lead shot has been banned for all migratory bird hunting by the Feds for many years.

RWO

flylo
05-30-2012, 04:16 PM
It is in gasoline and there have been several movements to ban it in ammunition. If they can't ban it they will add a tax to make the price so high no mortal will be able to afford it. We've already heard those word from our President regarding coal usage.


AvGas contains much lead. 100 low lead has 5 times what 80 low lead did before being discontinued. I just bought a lead lathe hammer. You never know.

A.K. Boomer
05-30-2012, 05:45 PM
never thought about lead shot just getting randomly swallowed and making its way into a gizzard --- would be the worst place to end up as it's just a churner muscle with all kinds of added rocks - would break it down and immediately poison the bird...:eek:

lakeside53
05-30-2012, 08:50 PM
It's believed the birds actually select it because it is "like a little gizzard rock".

sasquatch
05-30-2012, 10:05 PM
Lead pellets in the "Buttocks" are NO FUN either!!:p

lakeside53
05-30-2012, 10:49 PM
rock salt is worse:D