View Full Version : OT-Firearms

02-29-2004, 09:26 PM
Reading this board enough, I get the oppinion that many people here are into firearms, so I have a little story and a question.
Up until 2 days ago, I loved sigs, and I loved my P220 in .45 cal.
Yesterday morning, I was in my first pistol shooting competition, reactive shooting, drawing from holster, getting timed the whole 9 yards. In the second round we had to reload. The slide on my p220 did not lock back, It cost me crucial time.
I noticed my magazines are getting chewed up by the slide lock. I guess the lever devoloped a sharp edge or something from wear.
Any how, I really enjoyed tactical shooting, and Im thinking about getting a 9mm instead for this stuff. The reason I dont like sig no more is because I looked at their warranty. They have no warranty, citing some ACT, blah blah blah, we will fix anything within 1 year anyhow at no cost to you, blah blahblah. Doesnt do me any good, bought the gun used.

Im thinking about a H&K USP in 9mm, they have a lifetime warranty. Or perhaps a 92fs.
I suppose this question will give me 5,000 different answers, hehe.

02-29-2004, 10:14 PM
Hi Bill,

I shot IPSC for 12 years before I got into highpower. What kind of pistol comp. are you shooting. IPSC,IDPA, Bianci? 1911 copies dominate just about them all. 9mm is a wise choice if you are not concerned with making a major power factor. In IPSC I never shot a mag dry. Having to release the slide after reloading eats up time. In IDPA I believe the mag has to be shot dry and retained after the reload so the slide must lock back. It's hard to beat a custom fitted 1911 for accuracy and trigger pull. My limited guns are under 2 lbs. Berettas suffer frame and slide cracks after prolonged use and have poor triggers if not customized. H&K also suffer poor triggers. Some competitions require the hammer to be holstered with the hammer down. This means a (harder) different trigger pull for the first round down range. I was a factory certified Glock armorer for 6 years and am sold on Glocks. A 3.5lb trigger connector and a titanium firing pin makes for a very shootable pistol. Both for under a hundred dollars and you don’t need a gun plumber to install them. The Glock is also hard to tear up. I have punished them beyond what any 1911 will suffer with few problems. I put a little over 20K rounds through a Glock 24 and the only problem was when I had a case head separation that blew the mag out along with the extractor and spring. After putting the guts out of my carry gun in the 24 I finished the match. Just my .02 worth.


02-29-2004, 10:20 PM
I used to shoot IPSC and Steel. One thing to remember like so many competitive games, equipment really takes a beating, more so in this case than real life. You might want to try some aftermarket magazines to see if they hold up, or perhaps they are just cheaper when it is time to replace them. In this game, magazines, even several parts of the firearm are expendable. Like any other machine, it will wear out when pushed. Q: In real life, how often are recoil springs replaced? For an avid shooter in this game, a 1911 spring lasts a year. I shoot target rifles also, and barrels only last about two years, which means you need at least two rifles (or three - a backup), as one rifle will be down for refurb. My M-1A is on its 5th barrel, and its been rebedded many times. One reason 1911's are popular for gaming is because of the tremendous aftermarket. For pistol games, I did not go with an alloy framed gun because of the sheer amount of rounds fired in this sport. I shoot 1911's and Glocks, each in .45 and 9mm. The 9mm is great because it's cheap(er), but this just means you'll shoot more! It all evens out. If you shoot alot, (if you arent already) you will eventually take up reloading your own ammo, in which case most warrantys are void.


02-29-2004, 10:44 PM
If you go 92 beretta, go old, since the new ones have cast components inside. So it was explained to me, They wanted production way up when they thought they had the USA military contract sewed up.

Me? I got a old Ruger super Blackhawk I sincerly love, got my name engraved on the barrel in gold. Killed more critters then all the other weapons put together.


02-29-2004, 10:56 PM
OK, well the comp I did, we only shot 19 rounds. Its none of the ones you say. I guess it was called reactive shooting, IDPA would be closest to it. Definetly not BIanchi, this comp was strictly your stock CCW weapon, in your CCW setup. Nothing fancy, just fun stuff. My indoor range has events 2 times a month, they told me to bring about 200 rounds.
My only concerns are controllability, accuracy and reliability. I shot a glock once, I suppose I should give them a try again.
Tommorow going to call up sig, even if their warranty does not exist, I;ve been told they have excellent customer service. See what they say. Im really torn, because I truly love my sig, but this problem is dissapointing to say the least, and .45 cal is a little crazy for rapid firing.

02-29-2004, 11:38 PM
Ruger uses a lot of cast steel parts in their firearms...ie Steel Receivers on their pistols and rifles are all cast, but of a very high quality steel. they also cast a lot of parts for other firearm manufacturers, they also cast turbine vanes for a lot of jet engines out of Titanium.
I have heard that they are one of the premier manufacturers of Investment cast parts in the world

02-29-2004, 11:42 PM
Ruger also makes the Calloway Big Bertha golf drivers.
Now I'm thinking about an XD

03-01-2004, 12:01 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by BillH:
.45 cal is a little crazy for rapid firing. </font>
How about shooting milder loads?

03-01-2004, 12:09 AM
Bullet weight is the key to milder recoil and less muzzel flip. The lightest .45 is a 152 gr. That cannot compare to a 115gr. 9mm.

Pat Miles
03-01-2004, 12:15 AM
If you you love your Sig then stay with it.Find the problem, fix it and shoot on.You are seeing why so many folks shoot the 1911 pistol and its clones.You don"t have to be an armorer to do a detail strip of the gun and put it back together thus fixing one is not a daylong affair. Don't get me wrong, Sigs,Glocks,H&Ks,Rugers are all good firearms.The 1911 style guns are easier to work on.As I said, take a good look at your gun,figure out what the problem is and fix it so it runs reliably. One pointer if I might. Unless the rules state that you have to shhot to slidelock-don't.Take a look at the stage and figure a way to reload before you run dry.If you are moving from one target array to another reload on the move.Just keep your finger out of the trigger guard while not on target or reloading! IDPA states that you have to retain amagazine after a relod UNLESS it is empty. Get the rules for the game your are shooting,read them and then plan your stages accordingly.Be safe and have fun.DVC

Pat Miles
03-01-2004, 12:36 AM
Bullet weight is part of the equation on recoil. The velocity at which the bullet leaves the barrelis the biggest factor. I can load a 152 gr 45ACP cartridge that will run around 700fps and is a *****cat to shoot and can load up a 115 gr 9mm load that will hurt you(and still stay within SAMMI specs)If you are reloading back your powder down to a comfortable load. IPSC gives a minimum power factor of 165 (bullet weight x velocity the divide by 1000).A 230 gr bullet can be loaded down to about 720fps and that is a comfortable load. I would suggest NOT using a 152 gr bullet. Due to their short length they make the OAL of the loaded cartridge short and cause feeding problems.

03-01-2004, 01:16 AM
Bill. What about fixing the pistol yourself?While I admit there is a lot going on in there, the only thing you could break is the slide hold open lever.

03-01-2004, 03:41 AM
Hi Pat,

If velocity is the biggest factor then why does my ballistics program give these numbers:

152gr/45cal at 750fps with 4gr(Clays), 2.5lb gun gives 7.4fps recoil vel. with 2.1ft.lbs energy.

230gr/45cal at 750fps with 3.5gr(Clays), 2.5lb gun gives 10.4fps recoil vel. and 4.5ft.lbs energy.

Only the bullet weight and charge to get the vel. is different.

The fastest (1234fps)115gr 9mm is below the last example and a slow one is pittiful. This is why we don't shoot the heavier bullets in competition.

They all can be loaded down but the energy it takes to move a lighter bullet loaded lighter will always be less than a heavier bullet.

You are so correct about the 152s. My first Open class pistol was a 45cal. Had to crank em out at 1160fps to make major. It was a PITA to dig the lead out and the accuracy at 50 yards sucked. The nose is taller than the driving band.

[This message has been edited by meho (edited 03-01-2004).]

03-01-2004, 11:03 AM
Have the best of both worlds, Sig just came out with a version of the 1911, good write up in this issue of The American Rifleman.
When Glocks came out you could not have given me one,now I carry one every day. Glock makes a Tavtical model that is supposed to be tighter tolerances and has the 3.5 lb connector from the factory.

03-01-2004, 12:09 PM
I Called up sig, and I over looked a rather simple thing, It was very easy to get that lever out. There is no bur on it, I guess my mag followers need to be replaced, I guess they lost their hardness, nothing else to suggest this problem.
Funny how things work, my P220 has a lot of use on it, tell by looking at the wear on the finish, I think I will trade it in for P228 or P229. Can't decide between 9mm or .40sw. Cheaper ammo is a definite plus.

03-01-2004, 12:49 PM
Bill. I built a Dlask 229 clone and had to purchase genuine SIG parts to get it to work right. One of the parts I replaced was the bolt hold open as the one I had was hard to move.The new one was too, but I polished all the surfaces that had any metal to metal contact with a fine Craytex wheel and that seemed to solve the problem.