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Evan
06-04-2012, 01:09 PM
I have seen a lot of burnt vehicles over the years and watched some of them burn too. But, I have never seen a vehicle burn this completely. The only parts left are the steel parts and some of the aluminum wheels. Even the aluminum wheels have burnt to a degree. Not melted either but actually burnt. There is no sign of large puddles of melted aluminum anywhere.

We happened on this yesterday (Sunday) on our way back from Kelowna. It is in the middle of nowhere and there is no fire protection service in the area. We didn't see it actually burning but it was still hot and smoking when we saw it.

Something is fishy though. There is no sign of a diesel fire and the tanks are intact. If there was any significant amount of diesel in the tanks it should have spewed burning diesel over the surrounding area including the road.

http://ixian.ca/pics9/burntruck1.jpg

http://ixian.ca/pics9/burntruck2.jpg

http://ixian.ca/pics9/burntruck3.jpg

http://ixian.ca/pics9/burntruck4.jpg

Paul Alciatore
06-04-2012, 01:28 PM
Looks like all the plastic, fabric, rubber, and fiberglass parts are gone. Looks like all the tires in the photos are completely gone. In a remote area. I would suspect deliberate arson. Insurance?

The tank appears to have been shielded by a steel floor.

uncle pete
06-04-2012, 01:41 PM
Evan,
Usually there's two reasons for a highway tractor to burn to the ground like that. Hot brakes from inexperience or a shoe dragging. Or I'd highly suspect what happened in your pictures is the high pressure oil line to the turbo broke. Those really get a huge fire going in seconds. A fuel line break is one more possibility that's pretty unusual. But your pictures also show just how much plastic and fiberglass is used in these trucks now.

Since it's a law that commercial trucks carry and have easy access to a fire extinguisher, I wouldn't think that was a simple electrical fire. I'm guessing his fuel level was pretty low so the tanks didn't boil it out onto the ground and just burned off any of the fuel in the tanks. I've seen a few burned that bad.

Pete

Willy
06-04-2012, 01:48 PM
Looks to me like an arsonist was busy.

I see the truck is off the road, perhaps it was stolen or broke down.
The fuel tanks were probably drained and then the truck was torched. Maybe just for the hell of it or perhaps to conceal any evidence.

You're right Evan with that kind of heat the flexable fuel lines and tank would be gone if there would have been any fuel there to burn.
Being that the tank is in the center or coldest part of the truck during the fire the aluminum did not get hot enough to melt.

A.K. Boomer
06-04-2012, 01:49 PM
If one of the tires runs flat on a hot day it can self ignite also,

I carry an extinguisher in my vehicle mainly for this purpose and mainly to help others if they don't know they are running flat...

aostling
06-04-2012, 02:21 PM
ere.
We happened on this yesterday (Sunday) on our way back from Kelowna.

Welcome back. How did it go at the sleep clinic?

Evan
06-04-2012, 02:27 PM
On our way down on Saturday we saw a truck parked in the same location. He had unhitched the trailer and pulled ahead about 50 feet. He was working under the hood. I can't say if it is the same truck, obviously, but it is a good bet. It isn't likely for the fuel tanks to be empty as it is a good drive to the next town.

My best guess is that the driver had a major breakdown and just left it there overnight. Somebody else drained the tanks and torched it to remove fingerprints.

Evan
06-04-2012, 02:29 PM
How did it go at the sleep clinic?

Bad. I now have a possible malpractice case against the clinic.

A.K. Boomer
06-04-2012, 02:37 PM
Even the aluminum wheels have burnt to a degree. Not melted either but actually burnt. There is no sign of large puddles of melted aluminum anywhere.





Are you sure their not mags? or at least mag mix as this would explain the missing puddles.


Geeze ---- what happened at the clinic?

Evan
06-04-2012, 02:58 PM
If you look at the wheel picture you can see a lot of white crumbs in with the tire wires. That is metal oxide. They don't use magnesium much if at all in wheels anymore as it is prone to cracking worse than aluminum and is too flammable. Aluminum burns just fine if it gets hot enough and is kept hot.

The clinic should not have put me on a CPAP machine. I have discovered that I cannot use a CPAP or any other type of positive pressure ventilation device because I have perforated eardrums. I will have to send the machine back to Greg that he sent me.

Because I have perforated eardrums the machine can blow infectious agents from my mouth and throat up into my middle ear and cause a serious infection. In my case that can be very serious because I have an immune deficiency of IgG subclass 2 which means I can't fight strep, pneumonia or meningitis. An inner ear infection with those common pathogens could even kill me.

I didn't know that this was a contraindication against the use of CPAP but when the tech hooked up the machine I could feel the pressure on my eardrums. I asked him if that would be a problem with my perforated eardrums and he said "No, that should be no problem at all".

During the night my eardrums blew out at least once that I know of. When I got home I looked up the manual for the machine they used and it says:

http://ixian.ca/pics9/contra.jpg

The tech should have stopped the procedure the moment I mentioned my eardrums. They now have a problem. I do hope I don't.

A.K. Boomer
06-04-2012, 03:15 PM
that's just plain incompetence --- you even tried to cover the fact...


It's like telling the doctor your allergic to penicillin and then he goes into the other room for a second - come's back - injects you with something - then pats you on the arm and says "there - that penicillin ought to fix you right up"

it's their baby, hope nothing takes off and grows because regardless of that fact, it's your life...

mayfieldtm
06-04-2012, 04:03 PM
Even:

Sorry to hear about your ears and the CPAP.
I swear, incompetence seems to be chronic, every frigging day I'll have a problem with someone not paying attention or being stupid or .... well you know.

Some reason your ears can't be patched?
My doctor took a bit of skin from the back of my ear and patched it over the hole. I hear really good out of that ear now.

By the way! There's nothing wrong with that truck. That's the way they make them these days.

Tom M.

Evan
06-04-2012, 04:55 PM
My eardrums are ripped loose along the edge. It has been that way for decades. That has healed so that the eardrum is now a kind of flap. It sticks itself closed so that it functions perfectly but I have to be very careful not to blow my nose hard or do anything that changes the pressure in my respiratory system by much or suddenly. I had no idea how much pressure that is but obviously the CPAP machine generates enough pressure to be a problem.

I had a serious fungal infection in one ear about 3 or 4 years ago and it took them 3 months to fix it. I was stone deaf in that ear during that time and am not at all interested in repeating the experience. They never asked about this possibility or made any sort of reference to it.

This could get expensive for the clinic.

You are right. Everywhere I turn these days I run into incompetence.

Alistair Hosie
06-04-2012, 05:16 PM
I have been on cpap for over twenty years and have never been asked about my eardrums either.So maybe it's not so important after all ,and just means you need to stop using the machine.I am not in favour of lawsuits at the drop of a hat seems the world is out looking to make out of the medical profession at any costs we live in a very litigeous age when everyone see's a slight fault with misinformation and suddenly thinks my god I could do very nicely out of this . Would it be fair to say no harm has come to you Evan if it has, seriously, has then of course sue, but if it was just a simple error or lack of information then try to think of the mistakes you and I and we all have made .I shudder everytime someone tries to make a pile from suing doctors just because they can and it's very lucrative.I am not saying your one of them Evan but think of the others everytime you sue the cost of medicine gets higher and higher for the poor.It's high time we sorted the needy from the greedy.In a way maybe it was beholdent upon you as a highly intelligent creature to mention it to them just as a way of relieving your anxiety to sit and say nothing then rush out and sue is fecklless and we all are in some way incompetent.As I say I have been to many sleep labs clinics over the last twenty odd years and never been asked about my ears or asked in any documentation which I always have to fill in or have never heard of anyone else being asked either maybe your just one of lifes unlucky people.Keep well Alistair

JCHannum
06-04-2012, 06:28 PM
I am not in favour of lawsuits at the drop of a hat seems the world is out looking to make out of the medical profession at any costs we live in a very litigeous age when everyone see's a slight fault with misinformation and suddenly thinks my god I could do very nicely out of this.

Alistair; Do you mean like this one?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/georgia-man-death-threesome-nets-family-3m-trial-article-1.1087339

A.K. Boomer
06-04-2012, 07:19 PM
Besides the dentist - the only thing Iv trusted anyone else doing in the past decade is mounting and balancing my wheels ---- and that has turned out to be a bad experience both the last two times,

first time I was watching and the kid didn't even torque the lugs - just zipped them up and didn't even re-zip,

so I get home -- two out of four are loose and they were not 180 degree opposed so I would have lost a wheel, call the manager and he says - wait was it ------- and describes the kid ----- I say yes that's him -- he says - that's it - he's gone...

last time I go to a different place and watch and the guy looks like he knows what he's doing - gets the lugs tight enough to set the car on the ground and then hand torques them with a torque wrench - im happy and actually give him a 5 buck tip cuz I feel like im not going to die on the way home, but --- the wheels are out of balance - so one by one I put them on the rear of my car and static balanced them to within acceptable levels...:rolleyes:

Evan
06-04-2012, 07:55 PM
So maybe it's not so important after all ,and just means you need to stop using the machine.

There is a good reason that the manufacturer advises doctors not to treat patients with a ruptured eardrum(s) on CPAP. It is the risk of infection to the middle ear. My risk is much higher because my body cannot fight the infection of the most common throat bacteria.

The clinic doctor had me fill out a lengthy form about my medical history but nowhere did it ask any questions about ear problems or anything related to that. In this kind of case the concept of "no harm, no foul" does not hold at all. I am not his only patient and if he doesn't make some changes to his practice somebody will be hurt. They probably have been already.

I have a neighbour that is on CPAP for about 12 years now. She has a ruptured eardrum on the right my wife told me this morning and probably not coincidentally she is also stone deaf in that ear. I'm not interested in going that route, thank you.

edit: I do not intend to sue but he is going to pay for my time and the trip to Kelowna. At the Revenue Canada rate of 52 cents per kilometre allowance for medical trips that will be $540 for the trip.

Krunch
06-04-2012, 08:09 PM
I remember a gasoline truck caught fire in Jersey when I lived there. IIRC, a brake hung up and set the rig on fire. Got hot enough to ignite the aluminum and the whole thing burned except for the steel and cast iron. The fire was so hot that it melted aluminum light stanchions (again, IIRC) 150 feet away.

Metal fires are bad news. If you try to extinguish them, I'm told the fire is so hot that it makes the H and O in water dissociate so that water is actually FEEDING the fire FUEL and oxygen.

Evan
06-04-2012, 08:15 PM
Quite some years ago we had a gas tanker wipe out on the main hiway south of town. It burned so hot that it destroyed the hiway. They had to make a gravel detour around the couple of hundred feet while they repaved it.

dp
06-04-2012, 08:43 PM
The tech should have stopped the procedure the moment I mentioned my eardrums. They now have a problem. I do hope I don't.

They will also blow out through your tear ducts. Very annoying when that happens.

David Powell
06-04-2012, 08:47 PM
Used to tell the tale of how a steam driven truck, adapted as a tar sprayer for road making caught fire, telegraph poles 300 yards away caught fire, the road was destroyed and the only identifiable part of the whole truck that was left when they could get near a couple of days later was the crankshaft. The one I used to drive only carried 1000 gallons of tar!! regards David Powell.

sasquatch
06-04-2012, 09:08 PM
That truck is burnt to a crisp! So much plastic and fiberglass now, a number of trucks have been torched over the past few years, a sad state of the economy in certain areas.

Two weeks ago we had a truck fire on the 4 lane hiway, It was reported as a brake fire as stated previously here, but this truck was carrying a load of "Talcum Powder", That WAS A MESS!!:D

Your Old Dog
06-04-2012, 10:41 PM
While we're on the cpap thing. My optomotrist wants me to report any abnormality with my eyes because the cpap can force air across your eyes with any problems it finds along the way.

Andrew_D
06-05-2012, 12:34 AM
All these comments and nobody mentioned that the truck was a Kenworth!!

Andrew

aostling
06-05-2012, 01:11 AM
All these comments and nobody mentioned that the truck was a Kenworth!!


Since you know your trucks, what's that spring with four coils in the second photo?

Willy
06-05-2012, 01:43 AM
That's an easy one Allan, but I'll let Andrew have the first crack at it.
The first photo also shows the spring and it's mate.

Guido
06-05-2012, 01:50 AM
Second pic shows one spring, but top pic shows two springs, laying on the tarmac. Probably two more springs laying about the same spots, under the front driver.

Top pic shows the fifth wheel slathered with what appears to be about two pounds of monkey grease squirted out of a powered grease gun. It so, that tractor had been serviced since it last pulled a trailer.

--G

dp
06-05-2012, 01:56 AM
While we're on the cpap thing. My optomotrist wants me to report any abnormality with my eyes because the cpap can force air across your eyes with any problems it finds along the way.

Some masks will leak and do that. Mine does and it makes me crazy. Especially if I lay on either side. Laying on my stomach is right out, of course. There are nasal masks that look like coolant nozzles that jet the air straight up your snot locker and avoid all the face mask leaks. These things are hideous enough without some procto-syring looking thing clamped to your face to greet your wife each morning :)

If you need a lot of pressure to stay alive you'll probably benefit from the procto-syring, though. I need only the minimum possible pressure of 5mm/H2O to stay alive.

Davo J
06-05-2012, 02:15 AM
There has bee few burnt to the ground over here in the past 12 months or so, and one where we where driving past with the fire brigade trying to put it out.
The mate is a truck driver and nearly went up in one when the turbo blew off it. The bad thing was he had my son with him that night who was only 15, but thankfully they both got out and the damage was minimal, as the got to it with the extinguisher.
Not something my son will ever forget.

That one does look suspicious though.

Dave

tdmidget
06-05-2012, 02:53 AM
Used to tell the tale of how a steam driven truck, adapted as a tar sprayer for road making caught fire, telegraph poles 300 yards away caught fire, the road was destroyed and the only identifiable part of the whole truck that was left when they could get near a couple of days later was the crankshaft. The one I used to drive only carried 1000 gallons of tar!! regards David Powell.
A steam driven truck and the only iron or steel part was the crankshaft?


"Second pic shows one spring, but top pic shows two springs, laying on the tarmac. Probably two more springs laying about the same spots, under the front driver. "

springs from the spring brake canisters. These apply the brakes in the absence of enough air pressure to compress the spring and release the brake. The spring can caps are also there. The center section is usually cast Al which must have melted away.

Willy
06-05-2012, 03:15 AM
In all fairness to Guido he had the correct answer also but after seeing my post saying that I would give Andrew first crack at it he withdrew his answer, hence his edit in post #27.

aostling
06-05-2012, 03:44 AM
springs from the spring brake canisters. These apply the brakes in the absence of enough air pressure to compress the spring and release the brake.

Thanks, that teaches me something. Looks like the springs are variable rate, getting stiffer under load.

Willy
06-05-2012, 05:11 AM
Most type 30 brake chambers, (which are the most common size in use, and are so named to indicate the number of sq.in. of diaphragm area) have a maximum 2.5 in. push rod stroke.

The normal stroke to full lockup should be no more than 1 1/4 in. when the brakes are properly adjusted. The springs used in dual chamber brake pots drastically loose their force also when the stroke exceeds 1 1/4 in.
Brake drums expand significantly when hot hence the requirement to check brakes before steep downhill grades.

Once the brake pot's push rod exceeds 90° past the centerline of the slack adjuster/S-cam centerline you have big problems.
Below is an illustration to more clearly show what would happen when one exceeds the critical 1 1/4 in. travel and the drum expands. You are at the end of the stroke and all the air pressure in the world won't do you any good as the brake pot is effectively bottomed out.
The illustration shows a single chamber brake pot which does not incorporate the parking brake chamber or spring. This is simply a service chamber, not the dual, service and emergency chambers.

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j31/250willy/9bb3e58c.jpg

sasquatch
06-05-2012, 09:39 AM
Interesting reading you guys in your'e detective work.;)

Carld
06-05-2012, 11:58 AM
The parking brake air chamber has a very large and powerful spring in it. When replacing the spring brake chamber you have to restrain the spring or you may be injured. They are much larger than the air brake chamber spring shown in the drawing and the spring on the ground may be a spring brake spring. Normally there would only be two spring brake chambers on a truck.

I missed the grease still on the 5th wheel, at least it looks like grease put on the 5th wheel after a service job. It makes me wonder if it's a torch job. If the truck was set afire the balance line connecting each tank would burn in two and then the fire would really get exciting. I suspect the tanks were at least half full and the steady dumping of fuel feed the fire to completely consume the truck.

If it was a torch job the balance line may have been cut before starting the fire. An investigation will tell.

Fasttrack
06-05-2012, 12:47 PM
All these comments and nobody mentioned that the truck was a Kenworth!!

Andrew


No wonder why someone wanted to torch it. Who wants a Kenworth when you can have a Pete? :D

Willy
06-05-2012, 01:45 PM
Normally there would only be two spring brake chambers on a truck.


In British Columbia all drive axles of commercial vehicles are required to have emergency spring brake chambers.
I believe this law was enacted in the early 80's.

Many years ago before the laws were changed I remember driving one truck that only had emergency brake chambers on one axle. What a PIA, when icy, if one didn't engage the inter-axle diff lock when parked it would tend to roll away. On steep hills, of which we have many, well you simply cannot park...period.

Long before the laws were changed almost everyone was already running four emergency spring brake systems. I would be very surprised that in this litigious society that most jurisdictions haven't enacted similar requirements.

Evan
06-05-2012, 01:52 PM
If there was fuel in the tanks it would have run down the parking area to the nearby grass and set it on fire.

I became curious and had a close look at all the pictures I took. It was definitely hauling a trailer.

Here is a close look at the fifth wheel.

http://ixian.ca/pics9/burntruck8.jpg

You can see how close it is to the grass and what isn't obvious is that the pullout has a fair slope to it.

http://ixian.ca/pics9/burntruck6.jpg

But the real clincher that it was a torch job is the cap on the tank. The driver would never leave it sitting loose on top of the filler. The diesel thief didn't bother putting it back on.

edit: Also, if there was any fuel in the tank the cap wouldn't still be just sitting there.

http://ixian.ca/pics9/burntruck7.jpg

Willy
06-05-2012, 02:17 PM
I believe you are correct Evan that's why I too suspected a thief was at work covering his tracks. Over the years I've seen a lot of similar scenarios. Now with fuel prices as high as they are fuel thieves think nothing of torching a vehicle in order to cover his tracks.

What a waste...torch a $100,000 rig for $200-$300 worth of fuel. Unfortunately I see more and more of this every day. Whenever someone has to leave trucks or equipment in an unsecured setting.
Logging equipment in the bush or a broke down truck on the highway are all easy targets.
Having talked to several victims over the years I'm very surprised no one has been shot yet.

Unfortunately the article gives no clue as to the details but we do have a photo of the fire.

http://www.opinion250.com/blog/view/24591/1/hwy+97+re-opens+after+semi+fire

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j31/250willy/b0976c53.jpg

Black_Moons
06-05-2012, 02:52 PM
Sad to see such a great machine reduced to smoldering rubble just for someones tiny profit gain.

Sadder still I doubt he would get more then a few months in jail if caught even if they can pin a dozen more cases on him and he has a dozen prior convictions.

Not much justice in this world anymore, thats why people are willing to do such insane things for such tiny gains.

oddball racing
06-05-2012, 04:39 PM
......But the real clincher that it was a torch job is the cap on the tank. The driver would never leave it sitting loose on top of the filler. The diesel thief didn't bother putting it back on.

edit: Also, if there was any fuel in the tank the cap wouldn't still be just sitting there.

http://ixian.ca/pics9/burntruck7.jpg
Unless the Aluminum cap and the aluminum threaded bung were addressed by using a nylon thread insert to prevent galling. Then, when the plastic melted out and the tanks internal presseure rose, ffffttt goes the cap relieving the tank pressure w.o. the cap flying off. Then said insert burns away.
Still, everyone knows the best place to light one up is as far away from town as fire patrol can be to insure complete destruction of said vehicle before help can arrive to save it.
My vote goes for an inside insurance claim over a simple fuel theft. Who has ever heard of police fingerprinting for fuel theivery. The time and effort fingerprinting takes is reserved for more important crimes. IE. murder, major robbery etc. Down here stolen cars themselves are rarely fingerprinted unless the vehicle is suspected to be part of a theft ring that is being solved.

If that indeed was a torch job you think the cap would be long gone with a rag in the tank instead. Aned if I were to siphon fuel out and burn truck, I don't think the cap would even be around. Remove cap, suck fuel dry, and either hi tail home or set truck ablaze. niether scenario would invole even putting the cap where it is found to be.
Jest saying, Mike

uncle pete
06-05-2012, 06:07 PM
This thread is a bit disjointed. So if I'm reading it correctly, Then that fire happened at approximately 3 pm on june 2nd. Hiway 97 is a real busy north/south route. Daylight hours and your going to torch a truck? There's no way in hell I'd bet money it couldn't and wouldn't happen. But it is doubtful. I'm still betting on a oil line to the turbo as the cause. And it isn't all that rare to see a truck with a loose fuel tank cap. I have seen that multiple times and did it myself a time or two when I first started. An experienced driver with an uncontrollable engine fire just may have popped the filler caps so the tanks wouldn't explode. There really is far too many variables to say for sure it was a torch job. If I was forced to put money on it? I'd have to bet it wasn't. But I've been wrong before.

And stealing fuel from a parked truck? So just how would you know there wasn't somebody in the sleeper while doing so? Stolen and then torched right there, Or even as a owner/operater trying to loose that monthly payment? There's far too much chance of somebody seeing that. Sorry but the time and location right alongside a really busy hiway doesn't add up to enough to say it's even a 50-50 chance of that truck being torched.

It's been 6 plus years since I last drove a class one truck. At that time everything I drove including brand new had straight aluminum ID and OD threads for the filler caps. And they all came with a light weight chain to keep the filler cap from being misplaced.

Pete

Evan
06-05-2012, 06:25 PM
The truck was sitting there all night. It probably started burning very early am Sunday since it was still hot when we arrived in the afternoon. Traffic was very light last weekend, hardly anybody on the road. Nobody would pay attention to somebody "filling" the tanks from a couple of drums in the back of a pickup. If you parked on the far side between the tractor and the grass they wouldn't even see you.


My vote goes for an inside insurance claim over a simple fuel theft. Who has ever heard of police fingerprinting for fuel theivery. The time and effort fingerprinting takes is reserved for more important crimes.

The Clinton RCMP detachment consists of one dispatcher and perhaps two officers. They start work at 10:00 am. This would be high on the list of most important crime of the month. There aren't any murders, bank robberies etc. The highlight of the officers day is most likely catching somebody driving 30k over the speed limit. There also isn't any fire department that would go that far out of town. I don't even have fire department service. If something lights up you either put it out or watch it burn.

Torching vehicles to eliminate fingerprints is standard practice around here for the select group of vehicle thieves that live on the reservations.

beanbag
06-05-2012, 07:57 PM
wouldn't it be a lot easier to wear nitrile solvent-proof gloves instead?

quasi
06-05-2012, 08:07 PM
Torching vehicles to eliminate fingerprints is standard practice around here for the select group of vehicle thieves that live on the reservations.


yes, I do not dought it. A group of friends were hunting wood Bison way out in the sticks in NW Alberta last year and refused to pay a "tax" to some wandering "Warriors". They came back to camp the next day and 2 trailers were burned to the ground, everything else was trashed.

After a 10 hr. drive to the closest RCMP, when they made the report the RCMP would not go to the seen , or place charges. They told them it happens all the time. Apparently the Oil companies are their favorite targets for extortion, pay no "tax" and your equipment gets trashed.

One group of hunters was apparently robbed at gunpoint last year as well. I don't understand how you rob armed hunters but I guess they did.

Peter S
06-05-2012, 08:33 PM
One group of hunters was apparently robbed at gunpoint last year as well. I don't understand how you rob armed hunters but I guess they did.

.....banjo music...variations on Deliverance :eek:

re. burning the truck "to cover your tracks" - it seems like a good way to attract attention and guarantee police interest!

Black_Moons
06-05-2012, 08:38 PM
After a 10 hr. drive to the closest RCMP, when they made the report the RCMP would not go to the seen , or place charges. They told them it happens all the time. Apparently the Oil companies are their favorite targets for extortion, pay no "tax" and your equipment gets trashed.

One group of hunters was apparently robbed at gunpoint last year as well. I don't understand how you rob armed hunters but I guess they did.

On the one hand, extortion/robbery is wrong.

On the other hand... hunting armed hunters.. Well, Thats the real extream sport I say. I bet most hunters wouldn't go out in the woods if the deer shot back.

kf2qd
06-05-2012, 08:43 PM
Not unusual to see one burned like that. Not much steel above the frame - to save weight. Aluminum melts at less than red hot, and it doesn't take much to melt sheet aluminum.

Willy
06-05-2012, 08:52 PM
.....banjo music...variations on Deliverance :eek:

re. burning the truck "to cover your tracks" - it seems like a good way to attract attention and guarantee police interest!

It happens quite often here...almost to the point of of it being standard operating procedure.
Thieves, joy riders, etc., hey they've got nothing to loose, no big deal.

The local RCMP do go out of their way to gather evidence, prints, etc. for all of these cases because of pressure from insurance companies covering their butts from scams. In hindsight probably a good reason to torch it.
It gets plenty serious during fire season as we have had some major interface fires in the past due to this.

Smart?
Definitely not? But none of them has ever been accused of that quality.

A.K. Boomer
06-06-2012, 12:44 AM
Unless the Aluminum cap and the aluminum threaded bung were addressed by using a nylon thread insert to prevent galling. Then, when the plastic melted out and the tanks internal presseure rose, ffffttt goes the cap relieving the tank pressure w.o. the cap flying off. Then said insert burns away.



Well freaking done mate (talking like a bloke here in honor of the Queen)


Your on my forensics team any day of the week --------- I don't know these big rigs at all but apparently you do (along with Willy I might add)
So ---- you've seen these inserts have you ?

They make complete sense in not only what you stated but also the event of a fire due to relieving pressure so when the tanks do go they don't blow sky high with 150 psi...

in fact could see them being mandatory in the long run just for that reason alone.

anyways good theory and I'll tell you another thing ------- the caps OD is way way overkill for the ID of the fuel tanks threads, so much so that it could definitely be the type of lid your talking,

Im not immediately sold on anything - esp. many of the quick knee jerk reactions and speculations that are going around...

Mike Burdick
06-06-2012, 12:51 AM
They say arsonist like to return to the scene and take pictures - lots of pictures! Hmmmmmm....

;)

justanengineer
06-06-2012, 01:50 AM
Or even as a owner/operater trying to loose that monthly payment?

I find it rather sad how far some drivers go to get out of the payment. When I was fresh out of the Army and back in college, I moonlighted with a local tow company on a heavy duty recovery rig and was called out one night to pick up an abandoned semi with a 40' trailer. Upon arrival, I immediately broke the lock on the trailer to take a peek, and low and behold, the trailer was full of used tires. To this day I still wonder if the driver voluntarily picked up the load of tires to spite the bank, or if he was just trying to make money out of losing the rig. Regardless, I imagine quite a few local shops didnt have to pay to dispose of tires for awhile.

Willy
06-06-2012, 02:27 AM
Originally Posted by uncle pete
It's been 6 plus years since I last drove a class one truck. At that time everything I drove including brand new had straight aluminum ID and OD threads for the filler caps. And they all came with a light weight chain to keep the filler cap from being misplaced.


In over 40 years of over the road trucking I can only think of one time when I saw a fuel tank cap with a plastic insert. This was when a lot of tanks used to come with fine threads and the galling issue was a very real problem.
Actually the fix was worse than the problem, because the durability of the plastic/nylon thread left a lot to be desired in the rough and tumble environment that these things are subjected to daily, a lot of ham fisted guys out there!

The cure was to eventually uses a large diameter loose coarse thread like the one in Evans photo. The older fine threaded tanks and caps can be a pain unless one uses a brass cap, then they work great.

I also have not seen a tank and or cap that was not well vented and with a restrainer to keep the cap near the tank.

A.K. Boomer
06-06-2012, 07:42 AM
I believe you are correct Evan that's why I too suspected a thief was at work covering his tracks. Over the years I've seen a lot of similar scenarios. Now with fuel prices as high as they are fuel thieves think nothing of torching a vehicle in order to cover his tracks.

What a waste...torch a $100,000 rig for $200-$300 worth of fuel.



Im having a tough time with that one - Im just not seeing the mindset as if their intent on stealing fuel there's no real tracks to cover, the fuel has no serial number --- once your done your done so why make the penalties 10 times greater and also throw up a huge red flag?

It does not matter if they are opportunistic or drive around with the full intent --- show me a trucker who does not have a pair of work gloves so no need to even pack special latex - not to mention there is most always an empty potato chip bag in the their own cab they can use,,, or the pulled down sleeve of their shirt or jacket -------- all were talking about is un-threading a gas cap for cri sakes...

So if fingerprints are not a problem what's the reason for torching? ----- what is gained by not only making the risk of getting caught far more whilst increasing your penalties doing so ?

Are canadian thieves really that stupid?

MrFluffy
06-06-2012, 08:48 AM
I did a stint spannering on big trucks in the UK, and one of the real problems was a truck running full load with a flat tire on the inside wheel of the trailer or inside wheel of the driven axle of the unit itself.
It was a real problem because the driver had no way to notice (do they have air pressure gauges now yet?) so the matching tire on the axle would overheat with the additional load and catch fire. Yes you could make a driver check his inner tire pressures before a run, but we had enough time making them make sure there were no housebricks lodged between the twinwheel's after building site deliveries.
This usually happened at some truckstop when the driver pulled over and nipped in for a bacon sandwich or mug of tea, when the cooling air that was *just* keeping fire at bay in the overheated carcass was removed and up it went. That set fire to the plastic mudguard or wing, which then toasted everything near that was even remotely flammable.
Many a rig driver came out with mug of tea or sandwich in hand to see their load on fire...
I'd want to see tire fire ruled out before pointing a finger at thieves.

A.K. Boomer
06-06-2012, 12:24 PM
That's what I stated earlier --- the biggest motivation for me carrying a fire ext. in my vehicle at all times is the story of one of my bro's who was following a fully loaded station wagon of a family that was on vacation ---

All was good for many miles then he noticed it weaving a little - he looked and the rear tire was going flat - the driver noticed too but just in the amount of time it took to pull over the unit burst into flames --- my bro said he felt helpless - all they could do was get everyone out and watch the car burn, it was the tire closest to the fuel neck filler.

Evan
06-06-2012, 05:02 PM
I'd want to see tire fire ruled out before pointing a finger at thieves.

We saw it parked there the day before it burned with the driver working under the hood. He had already unhitched the trailer and driven the tractor ahead about 50 feet.

At any rate, I talked to the RCMP officer who has the file. He was called out when it was on fire. The driver and his buddy that came to pick up the trailer headed for Walmart were at the scene and claimed not to know how the fire started. While the cop was there he said one of the tanks went off. He said that it let out a big whoosh with no visible extra flames. I suggested that the tank was empty and so was the other and he agreed. That diesel most likely went into the other tractor.

I asked him some more questions. The truck is owned by an owner-operator along with the second one that just happened to be in the area with, get this, no trailer. I suggested insurance scam and he agreed.

He was happy to hear that I have a lot of nice clear pictures of things like the gas cap and took my information. I can expect to hear from the insurance company with a request for the photos. Fine by me, I already pay too much insurance.

Paul Alciatore
06-06-2012, 05:42 PM
Evan,

I also was told I needed a CPAP and I got one and used if for a year or two. I never liked it even after several mask changes.

I started sleeping in a reclining chair and found that I could sleep much better there than in bed. I not only felt that I could breathe easier, but it was a lot better for my back and also helped prevent acid re-flux which I also suffered from. At first I was sleeping there with the CPAP, but then I started experimenting without it which is when I discovered that I felt just as rested.

I talked it over with the doctor who had sent me for the tests and he set me up with an oximetry test on an overnight basis. The results showed that I got plenty of oxygen while sleeping in a more erect position in the chair as opposed to the figures they got in the bed in the sleep lab. He had a battery powered, finger tip oximeter that recorded my oxygen levels for the night and the test was not too expensive.

If you can sleep this way, you may want to consider it and get the overnight test like I did. This one change, sleeping in a recliner, helped me more for all of these three problems than anything that three different doctors and the sleep lab had prescribed. Sometimes I have trouble getting to sleep. This was really the original problem I saw the doctor about. If I have to, I do lie down in bed but set a small timer for one hour. I then get up and use the chair for the rest of the night. This does not seem to cause me any great problems.

Oh, the nice recliner I bought for the bedroom cost less than the CPAP machine and it looks a lot nicer.

A.K. Boomer
06-06-2012, 06:18 PM
it's funny how we have names for everything now --- my Pops spent the last 30 years of his life sleeping in a lazyboy chair and I suspect it was for many of the same reasons,

but "back in the day" it was Pops just liked his lazyboy...

Evan
06-06-2012, 07:10 PM
If you can sleep this way, you may want to consider it and get the overnight test like I did.

I have been sleeping in my recliner for years now and it makes no difference at all. The type of central sleep apnea I have has nothing in common with obstructive sleep apnea. It isn't related to sleeping position or snoring as it is caused by a problem in the brain stem. The type I have is the "pure" form and almost nothing is known about it.

Andrew_D
06-07-2012, 12:40 AM
Since you know your trucks, what's that spring with four coils in the second photo?

Just had a chance to read again so maybe this has been answered (haven't gotten through all the replies yet!) ... that's one of the springs out of the air brake pot.

Andrew

Andrew_D
06-07-2012, 12:44 AM
No wonder why someone wanted to torch it. Who wants a Kenworth when you can have a Pete? :D

Well, I'll give you credit for at least driving a Paccar truck!!!

Andrew

Mike Burdick
06-07-2012, 01:25 AM
Post #7


On our way down on Saturday we saw a truck parked in the same location. He had unhitched the trailer and pulled ahead about 50 feet. He was working under the hood. I can't say if it is the same truck, obviously, but it is a good bet. It isn't likely for the fuel tanks to be empty as it is a good drive to the next town....

Post #55


We saw it parked there the day before it burned with the driver working under the hood. He had already unhitched the trailer and driven the tractor ahead about 50 feet. ...


An example of how "eye witness accounts" change with time... So now it is the same truck!

.

Machtool
06-07-2012, 05:14 AM
I asked him some more questions. The truck is owned by an owner-operator along with the second one that just happened to be in the area with, get this, no trailer. I suggested insurance scam and he agreed.
Wouldn’t that make them the slowest Arsonist’s in the history of crime?

They drive it out there on Saturday, and took until Sunday to set it alight.

Arsonists with a conscience maybe. They thought about it for half a day before striking a match.

sasquatch
06-07-2012, 09:40 AM
Wondering WHY the cops would be divulging information during an investigation to a bystander?:rolleyes: