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View Full Version : Need advice and suggestions..Moving BP mill...



cuemaker
06-05-2012, 09:48 PM
Gentlemen,

I will be loading my mill into a trailer that has a drop deck feature.

I plan on moving the mill with black pipe and effort.

My question is..how to get the black pipe under the mill? I will be placing the mill in the trailer with a fork lift..but once I get it home, I am will have no way to lift it.

So how do I get the pipe under the mill to start? I have a come along.. i can some how tip it back wards some... just didnt know if there was a better way.

I will be calling my local tow shop to see if they can help me out for a modest fee...

Tamper84
06-05-2012, 09:57 PM
I'm also interested in how you will make the initial lift. I know if you search for the thread Cincinatti mill saga. The op use a porta power with a 2 inch head to lift the mill onto his wheels. Idk how he made the initial lift though.

Rich Carlstedt
06-05-2012, 10:05 PM
Good idea !
Don't try to move it with pipes out of the trailer . It may tip over ( seen it before !)and then you will have a real problem.
Some states or insurance companies do not allow tow trucks to "move " machinery.
I have had them move /load/unload/my stuff a lot.

If they tell you they can't move it , just have them pick up the mill, and then drive the trailer away before lowering it ! simple !

Make sure you lower the table( knee) all the way down.
also move the table back against the column
Rotate the head, untill it is upside down, and support it with blocks on the table. (You may want to raise the knee an inch or so to take up )
Lifting straps around the ram work pretty well

Rich
Use a crow bar and walk around the base , using 3/4 inch thick boards, to raise the base for pipes. Carefully

Don Young
06-05-2012, 10:14 PM
If you use small rollers you can get them under with a pry bar. I do not like large rollers because of the tipping danger if one rolls out and the rest do not support the load well. Getting the first two large rollers underneath is scary unless you can lift the machine straight up. Of course, large rollers move easier over rough surfaces.

Be very careful that you have the mill under control at all times. There have been a lot of levers, handles, and worse broken by a machine falling over. If it does start to fall, get away and let it go, make no attempt to stop it.

I would advise letting someone with a lift do the job. Just be sure he doesnt put a chain or cable around something that it will damage. A few short 4x4" blocks between the chain and machine will help prevent damage.

boaterri
06-05-2012, 10:15 PM
My J1 has a notch in the middle of the front of the base. I used a pry bar to lift and wedges under the sides, rebite with the bar and a block then slide the first pipe under the base. Inch the machine forward and add rollers. Use a come along to pull the machine and have a tag line loosely cleated on the back side to stop any sudden rolls.

Work slow, plan each move, and plan an escape route in case something goes wrong. Communicate exactly what you want your assistant to do and make sure they have an escape route planned. Plan the work and work the plan and things should go well, but if things go wrong it will happen fast.

It's not rocket science, it's Egyptian science.

Good luck,

Rick

flylo
06-05-2012, 10:20 PM
Leave 1-1/2 pipe under the back, strap it well, have 2 long bars like we used Sun. You may need a 3/4 or 1" pipe to put on the floor right where it comes off the trailer. Have several pipes & a buddy or 2. It will go very easy. I've always hauled & moved them a little different the he had them set. I lower everthing I can & turn the table & lay the head on the bed to lower the center of gravity. You know we we're loaded & we didn't have to touch a single thing not even tighten a strap. Long day 17 hrs. I hauled one just like yours on a drop gate sng axle low trailer with a comralong plywoog & pipe. You won't have any trouble. Did you get my address? Again Thanks for my part of the deal. Let me know when she's set & making chips. Eric

flylo
06-05-2012, 10:47 PM
Rob, forgot to tell you $97 total in fuel. Not bad for the load. I looked up the big mill 3300#. I really like him though. He's a great guy. I was one hurting massive charliehorse when we got home, we never ate all day & had to unload the next day. Thanks again!:D

bob308
06-05-2012, 11:01 PM
at least trun the head unside down with the knee all the way down it lowers the center of gravity. this helps elimamite some of the tip over factor. removing the ram and head from the mill would do better.

flylo
06-05-2012, 11:13 PM
Rob, sorry to post again. But better idea. Use a pallet jack. You proble have them at work but for $50-$100 you can get nice ones on C/L. Load the mill on the trailer on a pallet jack 5500# rated. Turn the front wheel sideways, lower the pallet jack so the mill is on boards like we did, strap like crazy. When home lower the trailer, unstrap but strap mill to pallet jack 2 straps, raise jack, remove boards, have 2 people steady/watch mill, keep jack as low as possible,roll off easy & you can put it anywhere you want even leave on jack until it's positioned. Just lower the jack. My big one is on a pallet jack now. Better idea!

elf
06-05-2012, 11:21 PM
If you have to ask how to rig it, you're better off hiring a professional :)

A friend of mine tried to do what you're doing with a new CNC mill and he was quite happy to have been able to get out of the way as it toppled over. The mill was quite happy to get new ballscrews and many hundreds of dollars worth of new parts.

Ohio Mike
06-05-2012, 11:40 PM
You can do the initial lift with a simple pry bar. I have one about 5' long that I used. A normal BP mill will only weigh about 1800#. Lift and shim, lift and shim repeat as necessary. Don't forget about using a pallet jack, they're very handy for moving equipment.

John Stevenson
06-06-2012, 04:14 AM
Moved 8 or 9 Bridgy's now, took every one to pieces and moved them in a normal van.
Good thing about taking them to pieces is it's safer, nothing tips over, and you can lift and place everything with a cheap 1 ton crane.

Another advantage is you get to clean all the crud out of the knee and get to check various items that can give trouble further down the line like head bolts stretching, teeth missing off the worm wheel and loose bevel gears on the knee screw.

Don't like rollers, seen too many machines tip over when they come off one or they spin a roller out.

That big TOS lathe in the Minus 1 and counting thread was moved out just using a couple of steel plates with a dollop of oil on them.

No lifting tackle was used other than a pry bar to get the plate under the leading end to start. Bars were spread across doorways and used as an anchor to winch on.

Abaker
06-06-2012, 09:17 AM
I'm also interested in how you will make the initial lift. I know if you search for the thread Cincinatti mill saga. The op use a porta power with a 2 inch head to lift the mill onto his wheels. Idk how he made the initial lift though.

I had to use a Port O Power for the Cinci because it weighs over 4K - couldn't budge it with a 3ft pry bar.

For smaller machines I do like everyone else and pry it up with a long pry bar. I found that I can comfortably get 1/4" - 1/2" lift for each bite. I have a selection of 1/4-1/2 shims on hand and a couple of chunks of steel of rising thickness to use as a fulcrum. Then I "jack" up the bottom until I get the rollers underneath.

I don't like the idea of rollers under a machine on an incline like a ramp - if it gets away then it could get really moving. I do like to lag a couple of 4X6 under neath to extend out the base. I makes the transitions between surfaces much smoother and I think it makes for a much more stable move from front to back - all while spreading out the weight.

Anyone can move a machine if you think it through, but if you are short on time it is way better to get help in the form of a tow truck, than to try to do the work in a hurry.

Good luck - let us know how it went.

Lew Hartswick
06-06-2012, 10:19 AM
Love that description. :-)

<It's not rocket science, it's Egyptian science.>
...lew...

ed_h
06-06-2012, 10:39 AM
I used pipe rollers on my clone, but had to mount the base to 4 x 4s since the bottom edge of the base is stepped. Moving on rollers is pretty effortless, but turning corners can be tricky. Don't get in a hurry.

Here are some pictures of my move. The move from my garage, down the stairs, and across the shop was all done solo.

http://bullfire.net/Mill/Milling%20Machine.html

cuemaker
06-06-2012, 12:35 PM
Thank you all!... all excellent suggestions...

And the answer is...Local tow truck wants $50 buck to place it where I want it with in reason...

Which means I dont have to worry about getting it over the ledge from my driveway to my garage.

He should be able to place it in the garage floor and on rollers if i want...

Chip Chester
06-06-2012, 09:37 PM
Cuemaker, you should seriously consider putting the mill on oak or steel risers, just tall enough to slide a pallet jack under it. That way, you can move it on your schedule, by using a jack you can get on craigslist for $150 or less. (Or from HF if you want to go there.)

By measuring and preparing for when the mill is up in the air, you can attach the risers in no time. I'm sure someone with a BP could give you the dimensions you'll need for bolting them on. I wish I had done this when I first got my Cincy Toolmaster, as now I have a pallet jack and the risers, but it's going to be a task to safely get it up in the air.

Good luck. I'll be cheering you on from back down I-70.

(When you were on the "roller" path, I was going to recommend putting a spacer under the trailer deck before you drop it, so that the top of the trailer floor and the rollers were even. Then, pry-bar it out onto the rollers on-the-level. But a towtruck is easier, for sure.)

Chip

cuemaker
06-06-2012, 10:35 PM
I would not be opposed to putting on some sort of riser. I will have every opportunity to lift the mill up.....but once in my garage..I will have limited opportunity to move the mill...so a riser sound great.

But my question would be, would the mill be just as stable? Would I lose any rigidity??

I appreciate any suggestions and advice......

davidwdyer
06-07-2012, 12:00 AM
If you are going to move it in one piece, please:

Lower the table all the way down.

Turn the head upside down. This is to get the weight as low as possible.

Hollow rollers, i.e. pipe can crush. Solid rods are better.

Do not lift by the table, but by the "neck."

The truck may be able to just slide it along the floor if it is smooth concrete, but it will probably leave scars.

Once on the truck, turn it about 30 degrees. It will have a little less tendency to tip.

Strap it every possible way, including some way so that the base doesn't slide or shift.

These things can tip over very easily with unpleasant and expensive results.

A five or six foot bar can lift it using the little opening in the front and a small block of steel.

You will need about 3 bars to keep exchanging as you roll along.

Going around corners, the bars like to catch in the little openings in the front and back.

Once on one or two bars, one person can easily tip it and push it along if the floor is clean smooth.

The person moving the bars MUST KEEP THEIR FINGERS OUT FROM UNDERNEATH THE BARS!!! Grab them by the sides.

MichaelP
06-07-2012, 01:15 AM
But my question would be, would the mill be just as stable?

No, it will not. I don't suggest you to use anything "rollable" underneath the base after the machine is in place. Putting 1/2" thick wall steel pipes under the base and moving the mill around your garage is a trivial matter (as long as you have a concrete floor). You can do it any time you need. If your mover helps you, you may ask him to install the machine on something like 4"x4" that are spread apart so that a pallet jack can fit under. But make sure you understand that lifting the machine up can make working less comfortable depending on your height. Naturally, you can build a sophisticated moving base with wheels disengagement, but it hardly makes much sense unless you want to move your mill constantly.

If I understood you correctly, your mover will unload the mill for you. This is good. Let him use the ram or the lifting bolt on top if the ram to lift the machine.

If you're on your own, first, check how steep the ramp is. It must provide complete stability of the machine when it's on the ramp: no chance of tipping at all plus some safety margin for one dangerous moment described below in the next paragraph. If the ramp is smooth and not steep, you can use your come-along attached very low at the base to slowly pull the machine off the trailer. Again, very slowly and without any jerking. You may use your pry bar instead of come-along pushing the machine forward little-by-little. Push the bar underneath the base in the back, rest the tip of the bar against the floor and lift your end of the handle. It'll lift the base in the back, and the machine will slide down and forward. Repeat.

The most dangerous part is when the machine is coming from the horizontal trailer bed onto the ramp and changes its inclination. This part shall be done VERY slowly. Obviously, don't even think about using any rollers while the machine is on the ramp. Lowering the table and head as suggested above will help immensely. Once the first edge of the base is on the concrete, you can put the first pipe underneath. Pull the machine a bit more and put another pipe, etc. Then use your pry bar to gently push the machine forward, and don't forget to replace the rollers. Four roller pipes will be sufficient, and I wouldn't use less.

It goes without saying that if you plan to disassemble the machine for cleaning and inspection anyway, this may be the perfect time to do it. Even if you only remove the head, the machine will become a way less prone to tipping. All you'll need is just to lower the table.

It'll be much easier and safer if you have a buddy helping you. But you don't need a cowboy. Find somebody who is very careful and understands how to prevent tipping.

Good luck.

tool crazy
06-07-2012, 01:21 AM
When I brought My BP home and unloaded it with a backhoe it still needed to be moved about 30 feet into the shop. Thinking that pipe rollers would be the ticket but I didn't like the idea of geting the mill off the rollers when in position. I have some 1/4" x 2" cold rold flat bar leftover from a previous project so I layed two bars under each side of the mill and covered them with a heavy oil. I was able to push the mill across the flat bar with very little effort and once in place a pry bar was used to remove the" bearings".

11 Bravo
06-07-2012, 01:53 AM
I have moved my Bridgeport twice. Both times I used a service truck with a crane that I borrowed from work to lift the machine off the trailer and set it on the floor just inside the shop door as far in as we could reach with the crane.

I never put anything under the machine. With the knee all the way down and the head turned down, I put a nylon strap around the base of the machine right at the floor. I used a 1 ton come along to pull on the strap and just slid the machine on the concrete. Used pry bars for fine tuning the final position and to assist a little with the turning when needed. Used the same method to pull the machine out to the door so the crane could reach it for removing BTW.

The first shop I had it in I drilled a 1/2 inch concrete anchor into the foundation wall behind where the machine was going to sit. Where the drywall came down to the floor there was about 3 inches of foundation wall before it steeped down an inch or so to the floor. Drilled the anchor into that little ledge and bolted a lifting link (an eye bolt would work) into the anchor and just pulled the machine right into place. The shop at my new house had a walk out door in the corner of the shop close to where I wanted the mill. I wrapped a blanket around each end of a 4x4 and laid it across the door opening outside the shop. Wrapped a sling around the 4x4, hooked the come along to it and pulled the mill to within 3 feet of where I wanted it. Slid it to the final spot with prybars without any problems.

Nice and slow, but about as low of danger of tipping the machine over as you can get. As long as the concrete is smooth it is a piece of cake to do it this way.

H8Allegheny
06-07-2012, 08:23 AM
Cuemaker, you should seriously consider putting the mill on oak or steel risers, just tall enough to slide a pallet jack under it. That way, you can move it on your schedule, by using a jack you can get on craigslist for $150 or less. (Or from HF if you want to go there.)

Chip

+1 on using steel tube for risers and a pallet jack. I'm tall, so all of my machines are outfitted like this. Makes rearranging things much easier.

While I won't debate the merits of using rollers, I would recommend getting a really good "pry bar" for making the initial and incremental lifts for getting the machine up onto whatever it is you're trying to get it up onto.

Most prybars are straight and therefore require a pivot block on the floor and close to the machine base to generate lift. I've had these either slip/slide or even crush - not good.

I then read about "Johnson bars" - heavy oak handled jobs with a steel lip and wheels. But these seemed more for moving machines than for lifting.

Several years ago, I had two machines delivered by a pro rigging company. A VN 2RQ and an Axelson lathe (8,000#). They had these bent nose rigging bars and with just two of them, they moved and positioned the Axelson in five minutes flat (I'm talking about a 15' move across a concrete floot).

It took a while, but I finally discovered the place that makes and sells them. They are called a "rigger's nose bar." Here's the link:

http://www.easternrigging.com/prybar.htm

I bought a 60" straight tip one and have yet to find anything I can't lift with it. I have a friend that's a retired tool and die maker. I never knew that he had one as well. He's 83 years old and together we moved the Axelson about five feet with them. Once we got a rhythm going, it only took ten minutes.

Brian
Taxachusetts

1200rpm
06-07-2012, 08:41 AM
i don`t know if someone suggested it but around here there are a lot of guys in the construction biz looking for work.
to move my mill i got a local guy with a good sized bobcat to pick it up and put it on my garage floor.
well worth the $100 bucks i paid him and he was happy to get the work.
no drama.

flylo
06-07-2012, 08:49 AM
Love those "air bearings" they show also. I keep 2 large bars & a half dozen 1/2 pipes. I tell people you can move the world with them but everyone wants yo rent,buy & hire heavy equipment. Also don't care for chains chipping the paint on shop equipment.I lust think how much they did 100+ years ago without heavy equip we have today. The secret is think it thru,go slow,have help & watch very carefully. Dry sand comes on handy at times on heavy flay bottom boxed items. Works like little ball bearings under the load on steel, smooth concrete, or semi floors. Great post,Thanks!:D


+1 on using steel tube for risers and a pallet jack. I'm tall, so all of my machines are outfitted like this. Makes rearranging things much easier.

While I won't debate the merits of using rollers, I would recommend getting a really good "pry bar" for making the initial and incremental lifts for getting the machine up onto whatever it is you're trying to get it up onto.

Most prybars are straight and therefore require a pivot block on the floor and close to the machine base to generate lift. I've had these either slip/slide or even crush - not good.

I then read about "Johnson bars" - heavy oak handled jobs with a steel lip and wheels. But these seemed more for moving machines than for lifting.

Several years ago, I had two machines delivered by a pro rigging company. A VN 2RQ and an Axelson lathe (8,000#). They had these bent nose rigging bars and with just two of them, they moved and positioned the Axelson in five minutes flat (I'm talking about a 15' move across a concrete floot).

It took a while, but I finally discovered the place that makes and sells them. They are called a "rigger's nose bar." Here's the link:

http://www.easternrigging.com/prybar.htm

I bought a 60" straight tip one and have yet to find anything I can't lift with it. I have a friend that's a retired tool and die maker. I never knew that he had one as well. He's 83 years old and together we moved the Axelson about five feet with them. Once we got a rhythm going, it only took ten minutes.

Brian
Taxachusetts

Rustybolt
06-07-2012, 10:46 AM
There should be a sticky on this subject, it comes up so often.
Some little things not covered.
Do Not Transport The Machine On Its Trailer With Rollers Underneath The Machine. The whole object of strapping a machine to a trailer or truck bed is to make the machine a part of the trailer or truck bed. There must be absolutely no play in the rigging. When in doubt add another strap and tighten the hell out of it. Nothing in the world is sadder than a nice machine laying broken in the middle of an intersection.
When using a lever to lift the machine to place rollers underneath, lift only as high as is needed to place the roller. This is especially true of BPs as they tend to be top heavy. Make sure your lifting lever is long enough. A lifetime of back pain isn't worth one machine tool.
Be Careful! Plan Ahead. Take It Slow!







Have fun, Bye

H8Allegheny
06-07-2012, 01:52 PM
Love those "air bearings" they show also. I keep 2 large bars & a half dozen 1/2 pipes. I tell people you can move the world with them but everyone wants yo rent,buy & hire heavy equipment. Also don't care for chains chipping the paint on shop equipment.I lust think how much they did 100+ years ago without heavy equip we have today. The secret is think it thru,go slow,have help & watch very carefully. Dry sand comes on handy at times on heavy flay bottom boxed items. Works like little ball bearings under the load on steel, smooth concrete, or semi floors. Great post,Thanks!:D

To prevent chipping paint with binder chains cost me all of $30 (for a bottle of Chivas).

I went down to the local fire department and talked to the chief. For that bottle of Chivas, I got a 75' length of to-be-discarded 3" fire hose. I cut it into 12" and up up lengths. Run the chain through it and position appropriately. Works like a charm.

Brian
Taxachusetts

Alistair Hosie
06-07-2012, 02:13 PM
I too say it's better to pay someone with knowledge of these things, but then I am not a known risk taker.Have fun and please be safe these things can kill. Alistair

Alistair Hosie
06-07-2012, 02:15 PM
$30 dolars for abottle of Chivas Regal I live in Scotland and we can't get it that cheap our gasoline is nearly that price:DAlistair

sophijo
06-07-2012, 02:16 PM
That drop deck trailer is a great idea! I've used one to move two machines. One added point is that I attached a "come-along" to the mill when I rolled it off; to control the rate. With the drop deck there's nearly no incline so not a big issue. I rolled it into shop on 1/2" solid rod (4pcs x 3') using 48" crowbar from Harbor freight.

H8Allegheny
06-07-2012, 02:39 PM
$30 dolars for abottle of Chivas Regal I live in Scotland and we can't get it that cheap our gasoline is nearly that price:DAlistair

That was several years ago. Last week, a bottle cost me $36. :) :) :)

Brian
Taxachusetts

flylo
06-07-2012, 02:40 PM
To prevent chipping paint with binder chains cost me all of $30 (for a bottle of Chivas).

I went down to the local fire department and talked to the chief. For that bottle of Chivas, I got a 75' length of to-be-discarded 3" fire hose. I cut it into 12" and up up lengths. Run the chain through it and position appropriately. Works like a charm.

Brian
Taxachusetts
I failed to mention I have over 50- 2" 10,000# straps & binders. 10 slings, riggers cables & chains where they 4 meet at 1 ring with a hook on each of the 4, etc/ I do have & use chains on many thinks but I don't like them on shop tools. Just my opinion.

H8Allegheny
06-07-2012, 08:26 PM
I failed to mention I have over 50- 2" 10,000# straps & binders. 10 slings, riggers cables & chains where they 4 meet at 1 ring with a hook on each of the 4, etc/ I do have & use chains on many thinks but I don't like them on shop tools. Just my opinion.

Using those 2-4" wide professional grade ratcheting web straps the long haul truckers use will work just fine for most things. By all means use them.

However, I have several cousins back in Pennsylvania that are professional riggers and they taught me to ONLY use chain (and grade 70, at that). Apparently, their insurance carrier mandates its use and the PA state troopers like it as well - since they started using binder chains, they have never been stopped for a statie "inspection." Given that I'm not a pro, but still tend to move machines up to 4k# by myself, this latter benefit is more than worth the expense and effort.

Brian
Taxachusetts