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John Stevenson
06-07-2012, 04:56 AM
Spin off from my previous thread which was getting a bit unwieldy.

Needed to get the Ravensburg slotter moved to it's new owner and the TOS away for scrap so this rolled up this morning.

http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/dday13.jpg

State of the art, all singing, all dancing Hiab truck.
These are all over the place round here, because of H&S and lifting regs every builders merchant has one for a start.

http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/dday14.jpg

Slotter nearly on, driver is just visible behind the slotter as he has a wireless control for the Hiab.
3 axle truck with hydraulic beaver tail for roll on roll off loads.


http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/dday15.jpg


All loaded, legs in, just needs a strap or two and we are gone.

First picture taken 7:58 last one at 8:23 all done and dusted.

.RC.
06-07-2012, 05:28 AM
It's not a Hiab, it's a Fassi.. :D

flylo
06-07-2012, 08:01 AM
The Lathe looks like the same spindle as my Boye & Emmes. Looks like it would be a good welding grinding lathe.

hardtail
06-07-2012, 08:08 AM
Whats the 275? 2.75 Metric tonnes fully boomed out?

sasquatch
06-07-2012, 08:13 AM
Great pics, thanks for posting them!!

Yes LOTS of those trucks around this area, (Not Mercedes) of course, but other makes.

A real Help to contractors in the building business, transfering materials up 2-3 floors.

No more slugging work, and So much faster, and safer.

John Stevenson
06-07-2012, 08:20 AM
Whats the 275? 2.75 Metric tonnes fully boomed out?

No idea why the 275 number.
Max lift at 1 metre radius is 25.2 metric tonnes.
max reach is 20 metres [ 65 feet ] but don't know what lift.
is, probably less than a tonne.
At full reach they are more handy for placing things in inaccessible places

The digital display the driver has on the pendant is always giving a readout of lift in percentage.

JoeLee
06-07-2012, 08:26 AM
That is a handy rig to have. Beats a fork lift as far as versatility. I like the nylon straps........ some guys still use chains.

JL...............

sasquatch
06-07-2012, 09:02 AM
Anyone notice John's house in the background to the right, -the one with the 3 storey nice chimney?:eek:

jep24601
06-07-2012, 09:26 AM
Couldn't pick a day when it wasn't raining eh?

BigMike782
06-07-2012, 11:19 AM
Couldn't pick a day when it wasn't raining eh?
They have days that it does not rain?:D

Cool truck!

Euph0ny
06-07-2012, 11:38 AM
So a "hiab" is what you call those. My brother has a mumbleth-hand one. He mostly uses it for launching a speedboat (a thing a bit like a big zodiac / rib, but rigid, rather than inflatable) - much handier than winching the boat on and off its own trailer, and you can lower the boat directly alongside the harbour wall with the crane. The only trouble with it is that the truck battery goes flat from standing too long between uses...

A.K. Boomer
06-07-2012, 11:44 AM
Not picking on you SJ,

but lifting from the bottom like that with straps on a tall unit looks high risk to me - I realize the straps have the machine kinda "socked in" at the top but could see one popping off the slippery paint and then the top of the machine finds an exit...

Maybe it's fine but I just don't like the looks of it --- like a hook or anchor on top of a machine so it dangles,

to many herky jerkies with hydraulics...

Alistair Hosie
06-07-2012, 12:57 PM
Thats the same kind of lifter that brought my lathe and milling machine well done sir JOHN Alistair ps no it's much longer mine must have been a hiab then

TGTool
06-07-2012, 02:44 PM
I know what John meant by the "hydraulic beaver tail" but I hadn't heard that term used. Sometimes common terminology in a trade is particularly colorful and sometimes just bland. Around here that's a hydraulic lift gate - where's the color in that? In the US "beaver" also has a slang meaning and I don't know how widespread that is. Still, hydraulic beaver tail just begs for snide variations.

A.K. Boomer
06-07-2012, 02:54 PM
In the US "beaver" also has a slang meaning and I don't know how widespread that is.


Oh it's still widespread - or being used allot - what I mean to say is it's still the slang name...

John Stevenson
06-07-2012, 03:01 PM
AK,
Nothing to lift from on the top, all smooth casting, a strap under the head and direct lift just tilts the slotter to the back.
The corner feet stand proud from the base of the machine so if they tried to slip they have to get over the protruding feet.

Looked perfectly fine to me and the rigger otherwise we wouldn't have lifted this way.

TG,
Beaver tail is a common tern here, hydraulic lift gate here would get you what we call a simple tail lift.
Beaver never had the same meaning as it does in the States but it is coming into the same terms gradually.

I have a CNC Beaver milling machine :D
What's worse it it was made by Balding Engineering so it could be called a Balding Beaver :rolleyes:

cameron
06-07-2012, 03:20 PM
[QUOTE=John Stevenson]AK,

Looked perfectly fine to me and the rigger otherwise we wouldn't have lifted this way.


Some things look fine until the unexpected happens, then they suddenly look all wrong. I agree with Boomer, I wouldn't have lifted it without a loop tying in the straps to the upper part of the load.

Dave Cameron

A.K. Boomer
06-07-2012, 03:42 PM
Now youv done it - now he's going to post that pick of one danging out in the open 5 story's high and tell us to "bugger off" ...


SJ - here in the states "trappers" pay good money for them thar balding beavers...

Toolguy
06-07-2012, 03:54 PM
From what I've seen on this forum, I'd be willing to bet John S. has been around the block enough times to know what the score is. I would trust him to move my equipment any time. John has shown time and again he can get the job done in a professional and efficient manner. It seems kind of silly to second guess an operation that went fine from far far away.:)

Peter.
06-07-2012, 04:04 PM
Only way that could go wrong is if the operator had feet for hands on the controls.

See them straps? On my job there are 3 one-ton builder's bags overflowing with them and you're not allowed to touch them. They use them once and throw them away.

flylo
06-07-2012, 04:12 PM
Hiab is a crane mfg. That crane is a Fazzi brand. There both just brands of cranes.




So a "hiab" is what you call those. My brother has a mumbleth-hand one. He mostly uses it for launching a speedboat (a thing a bit like a big zodiac / rib, but rigid, rather than inflatable) - much handier than winching the boat on and off its own trailer, and you can lower the boat directly alongside the harbour wall with the crane. The only trouble with it is that the truck battery goes flat from standing too long between uses...

aboard_epsilon
06-07-2012, 04:33 PM
its just like hoover ....everyone calls a vacuum cleaner a hoover....who ever made it.
and there are thousands other objects that are called by the name of the first common name /company name for them. that stuck, in our country.

by the way, some gipsies in our country call all motor bikes Hondas...actually "onda" the way they say it.

all the best.markj

cameron
06-07-2012, 04:43 PM
From what I've seen on this forum, I'd be willing to bet John S. has been around the block enough times to know what the score is. I would trust him to move my equipment any time. John has shown time and again he can get the job done in a professional and efficient manner. It seems kind of silly to second guess an operation that went fine from far far away.:)

I offer my profound and humble apologies, Toolguy. As a newcomer to this forum, I had not realized that Sir John had attained the state of infallibility.:rolleyes:

Dave Cameron

Alistair Hosie
06-07-2012, 05:13 PM
John said
so it could be called a Balding Beaver

Wow sounds just like my sister after the boiler explosion removed here of here pubes in a millisecond,remember I asked here if anyone could lend me a middle parting toupee for keeping her muff warm in the cold winter.Alistair

Tyro 001
06-07-2012, 05:15 PM
That kind of a Toupee is called a merkin.

Toolguy
06-07-2012, 05:24 PM
I offer my profound and humble apologies, Toolguy. As a newcomer to this forum, I had not realized that Sir John had attained the state of infallibility.:rolleyes:

Dave Cameron

Apologies profoundly and humbly accepted.:)

John Stevenson
06-07-2012, 05:49 PM
Now youv done it - now he's going to post that pick of one danging out in the open 5 story's high and tell us to "bugger off" ...



This one ?

http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/first_delivery%201.jpg


Now bugger off.........................:rolleyes:

flylo
06-07-2012, 07:28 PM
It's like the 1st time I sold a biday(sp?) I said it does what? :eek:



That kind of a Toupee is called a merkin.

flylo
06-07-2012, 07:32 PM
Kind of like Monarch, LeBlond, Atlas, Horid Freight, they all turn metal. :rolleyes:




its just like hoover ....everyone calls a vacuum cleaner a hoover....who ever made it.
and there are thousands other objects that are called by the name of the first common name /company name for them. that stuck, in our country.

by the way, some gipsies in our country call all motor bikes Hondas...actually "onda" the way they say it.

all the best.markj

davidwdyer
06-07-2012, 07:53 PM
It's not a Hiab, it's a Fassi.. :D

No it's not. It's a caminhão munke.

aboard_epsilon
06-07-2012, 08:06 PM
Kind of like Monarch, LeBlond, Atlas, Horid Freight, they all turn metal. :rolleyes:

non of those names have stuck for a generic name for a lathe

will give you some examples

your weedwacker ..is our strimmer

The strimmer was a name of a machine made by a manufacturor ..the strimmer name is now used for all of them by the public

Wacker........this is a hardcore compactor made by a company called wacker ........company still makes them ..but all hardcore compactors here are called wackers by the public

Acro-props .(tempory telescopic building suports)......were made by a company called Acrowe, named after a solicitor called A.Crowe that lent the guy who started the company some money.

Now all props in our country are called acro-props ..the companies long gone.

all vice grips here are called molegrips by the public

all utilty knives are called stanley knives.

there are loads more

all the best.markj

A.K. Boomer
06-07-2012, 10:21 PM
This one ?

http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/first_delivery%201.jpg


Now bugger off.........................:rolleyes:


Yup that's the one - lol

nice job on the strapping - Id stand underneath that one (only if that high though cuz I still got a good sprint)

A.K. Boomer
06-07-2012, 10:25 PM
I offer my profound and humble apologies, Toolguy. As a newcomer to this forum, I had not realized that Sir John had attained the state of infallibility.:rolleyes:

Dave Cameron


He's allot like the queen that way.:p

J Tiers
06-07-2012, 10:26 PM
Sheesh... those things have more joints than a mud-dobber's tail.

Can they be worked so the load goes more-or less straight up, then? Seems likely, and could be fairly handy in tight spaces, like many european areas....

John Stevenson
06-08-2012, 04:25 AM
Sheesh... those things have more joints than a mud-dobber's tail.

Can they be worked so the load goes more-or less straight up, then? Seems likely, and could be fairly handy in tight spaces, like many european areas....

Nearly.
These cranes, as Aboard says, commonly called Hiabs here after the most popular maker at the time. are always rated in max lifting capacity at 1 metre which doesn't mean much because if you have a headboad mounted unit 1 metre won't get the hook over the side of the body but that's the standard.
So say in the case of the yellow one in the photo holding the Beaver CNC I think this was a 10 tonne unit so by the time it's dropped over the side it's probably down to 7 tonnes due to radius.

Now if you pick something up and use minimum jib and slew round you are probably on a 5 meter radius and have a lifting capacity of probably 4 tonnes.
You soon run out of capacity on these things.

The yellow one in the pic has been lifted with the idea to spin round in a confined area, my driveway and keep the safety factor as high as possible by keeping the radius down.

This is an old picture and an old crane, the Fassi crane yesterday had wireless controls with a constant read out telling the driver the weight, the safety factor in % and even the load on the out riggers, the technology has moved on so much.

The dedicated machine movers often use rear mounted Hiabs and they can slide them over to the side like a back actor to make more use of the max lift at 1 metre rule. They often have insane ratings just so they can lift at reachable radii, it's not always possible to get the truck alongside the load.

http://www.atlaspolar.com/material-handling-equipment/images/hiab-xs-1055.jpg

The Hiab 1055 has a rating of 90 tonnes at 1 metre, it can also reach 30 metres [ 98 feet ] but it's capacity is down to 1 tonne at that radius.

mike4
06-08-2012, 08:35 AM
[QUOTE=John Stevenson]AK,

Looked perfectly fine to me and the rigger otherwise we wouldn't have lifted this way.


Some things look fine until the unexpected happens, then they suddenly look all wrong. I agree with Boomer, I wouldn't have lifted it without a loop tying in the straps to the upper part of the load.

Dave Cameron
Machinery moving riggers and most experienced riggers would have ok'd that lift .
Sometimes tying the top together can create more problems than it solves.
Michael

Ries
06-08-2012, 11:22 AM
In my part of the USA, those trucks exist, but only as not for hire company owned vehicles, by and large.
I think it may be the insurance situation here, but its really rare to see a truck like that which you could call up and hire to move something. You do see them delivering things, but only if purchased from the truck owner.

I am lucky to have one nearby- my friend Blake has a company called "Hoist and Haul", and he has a Palfinger on a 20' flatbed. But, as far as I know, he is the only such truck for hire in the whole northern part of Washington State- an area of about 3 million people.
For whatever reason, the concept of an articulated boom crane on a small flatbed as a common moving service just doesnt exist here.

We CAN hire regular cranes, which are very expensive, and usually have a 4 hour minimum call. They start at about $200 an hour around here.
And we have a lot of non-articulated, 15 ton straight stick cranes that are very common, generically called a "Stinger" after the most popular brand. These are mounted on 20' flatbeds, usually, but the crane, being a single extendable boom, takes up most of the bed, and must be stowed lengthwise when travelling, so the carrying capacity is much less than a Hiab style articulated boom crane/flatbed truck would have.

Here is a picture of Blake moving one of my sculptures- the weight is similar to your slotter, I would suppose, but much larger.The piece shown is 8' in diameter and 16' tall.He has a 90 foot boom on his crane, making it easy to pick big bulky things like this out of small spaces.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v132/rniemi/Install1.jpg

camdigger
06-08-2012, 12:54 PM
Sheesh... those things have more joints than a mud-dobber's tail.

Can they be worked so the load goes more-or less straight up, then? Seems likely, and could be fairly handy in tight spaces, like many european areas....

Sir John calls them Hiab as per the most popular make of them in his part of the world. Elsewhere, they are called "knuckle boom" pickers. They are quite common in certain quarters of North America as well. I've worked with them up to 30T. They can be manipulated to move a load in a horizontal line, either vertical or horizontal (within limits). Many have a series of telescopic sections in the most outboard segment to move the loads away from the pivot point. I have pictures of one unloading 15 T - 40' seacans and assorted other equipment......

In oil country, they are widely used and readily available for hire. Rates can be exorbitant though, up to $300/hr. Back home in Alberta, stiff boom pickers like Stinger, etc are available to 43 Ton and knuckles to 30T. The 43 tonners are on 5 axles and typically pull a tridem trailer. Real pigs in tight quarters, but can out lift a small drilling rig.

Peter N
06-08-2012, 06:05 PM
Very useful things those Hiabs, especially when the friend building your new workshop gets a little careless with the 1.5T mini-digger less than 2 hours into the job :D


http://www.admould.co.uk/OddDocs/New_Workshop/Digger2.jpg


http://www.admould.co.uk/OddDocs/New_Workshop/Digger3.jpg

Paul Alciatore
06-08-2012, 06:08 PM
Nearly.
These cranes, as Aboard says, commonly called Hiabs here after the most popular maker at the time. are always rated in max lifting capacity at 1 metre which doesn't mean much because if you have a headboad mounted unit 1 metre won't get the hook over the side of the body but that's the standard.
.....<snip>.....


I would think that rating a crane at one meter would make a lot of sense in a country where things are measured in meters. From a general point of view, neglecting a lot of factors that are specific to a particular make and model, you can easily scale the rating out to the radius you are working at. Thus, 10 tons at one meter would quickly become 1 ton at ten meters.

Now, don't flame me, I do understand that there are other factors involved but that would be the maximum that the rating could be at such a distance. Various factors, like the strength of the various members or joints or hydraulic cylinders would easily produce smaller ratings at various distances. But from a systematic, universal point of view, it does seem to make some sense. You certainly would never want to go beyond the weight that this simple calculation would show.

As for the model number thing, perhaps they needed 275 tries to get it right. Boeing needed 52 tries.

uncle pete
06-08-2012, 06:31 PM
Yeah for at least western Canaduh, A picker truck is the general accepted term used for the straight boom type. Hiab for the one Sir John shows. If it's possible and heavy enough? They will usually lift over the front or rear of the truck and inline with the truck frame. Their a really handy lifting device. Normally not as flexable as the Hiab type since a lot of them have just a straight extendable boom. Heavier lift capabilitys though But for a ton or less that needs a fairly low lift but precision placement? I'd rent a rubber tired backhoe (JCB for the U.K.) and a GOOD operator with the extendable stick. A good machine along with a really good operator will save you hours of effort. I've run them just enough to know it takes more experience than I have right now.

Sir John's pictures show a very well qualified and experienced operater doing that lift. The person doing it has the final say so on if it will be lifted or not. There's a hell of a lot more to it than most would think.

Pete

Yow Ling
06-08-2012, 06:36 PM
All this concern about the right way to strop the lathe seems a bit over the top , it was only going to the scrappy, wouldnt have worried them it was upside down or even in 3 pieces.

In New Zealand we have plenty of Hiabs (common name) I can ring one and have him here for an hour for NZ$150 (US$100)

Another lifting device thats popular here is a sidelifter, whicj is a specialised shipping container crane can do 2 x 20 footers or 1 x 40 footer at a time,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymj8SWO_7Sw

.RC.
06-08-2012, 06:56 PM
There are probably the most common crane type that I see

articulated pick and carry cranes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejC49qfJk_E


Don't try this at home :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwDAXgmqBfc

quasi
06-09-2012, 02:55 AM
Here in Alberta Sir John's truck has what is refered to as a Knuckle Boom. I had one move my Rivett 1020F and Harrison L6 last year, $150.00 per hour, Kanuck bucks.

It was rated 4000 lbs at15 meters, 15,000 beside the truck.

The Artful Bodger
06-09-2012, 03:31 AM
Another lifting device thats popular here is a sidelifter, whicj is a specialised shipping container crane can do 2 x 20 footers or 1 x 40 footer at a time,




Although not obvious in that video some of the sidelifters can deposit a container on the other side of a typical fence.