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View Full Version : OT-Interesting stuff for motorheads, F1 vs. Nascar engines.



Forestgnome
06-08-2012, 08:13 PM
Pretty interesting analysis:
http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/comparison_of_cup_to_f1.htm

sasquatch
06-08-2012, 08:43 PM
Very interesting, lots of info there.

I'm still amazed that the valve train will go for that long at those RPM, amazing technologies in those valve springs.

Definetly a science all to itself by some very very knowlegable people.

browne92
06-11-2012, 11:18 AM
A few years ago, Speed channel did a special called "Trading Paint", where they set up the road course at Indy, and let Jeff Gordon drive Montoya's F1 car, and Montoya drove Gordon's cup car. Jeff was like a kid on Christmas morning, and Montoya was un-impressed. The guys that were really excited were the F1 engineers. They wanted to know how the cup guys were getting that kind of horsepower out of a pushrod engine.

The fun story: When Gordon asked Montoya when he should start braking for turn 1, Montoya said "the 30 meter mark". Gordon said "Well you better start braking mine at the 300 meter mark!"

garagemark
06-11-2012, 12:20 PM
So would anything change due to Cup engines being fuel injected now? Sorry, some of these numbers go slightly over my head without some study.

Both are amazing feats of technology in their respective areas.

SteveF
06-11-2012, 12:45 PM
So would anything change due to Cup engines being fuel injected now?

No. The only thing that matters in the cylinder is whether the air/fuel mixture is correct and it doesn't matter if that is accomplished with a carburetor, an EFI system or a highly trained squirrel with a spray bottle of gas. The huge advantage that EFI has over a carburetor is the ability to precisely control the A/F mixture over a wide range of RPM, throttle and atmospheric conditions, none of which applies to a NASCAR engine in a race. During the EFI testing, all the engineers said "We are getting about the same amount of HP" and all the drivers said "We can't tell a difference".

Steve

DICKEYBIRD
06-11-2012, 12:46 PM
RE: F1 braking, some years ago while the aero/downforce rules were still pretty much unrestricted, the techies said the deceleration G-force generated by an F-1 car at speed when the driver simply let off the throttle pedal was as great as that year's Corvette could generate with the driver standing on the brake pedal.

Now add the braking power of hot, sticky tires and gazillion $$ C.F. brakes to that.:eek:

RWO
06-11-2012, 01:54 PM
The improvement that allowed the leap in NASCAR engine RPM occured about 1999. It was a new valve spring made by PSI Springs. It's a tiny company with less than 100 employees located in rural Michigan. RPM went from about 8500 to 10,500 and HP from 700 to 900.

Eventually NASCAR stepped in and mandated gear ratios to control max RPM to about 9500, ending the RPM war. I believe all the NASCAR teams use PSI springs.

See http://www.psisprings.com/

RWO

jkilroy
06-11-2012, 08:13 PM
Big difference here is F1 runs pump gas, NASCAR, not so much.

EVguru
06-12-2012, 06:09 AM
Big difference here is F1 runs pump gas, NASCAR, not so much.

Close. F1 uses specially formulated race fuel that complies with the general specification for 'super' unleaded (97-99 RON). Samples are taken during practice, qualifying and after a race and they must match a reference sample submitted by the team at the start of the season. Leaving the top off a fuel container for a few hours would change the fuel enough for it to fail the comparison.