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View Full Version : Large stationary steam engine fully explained.



Forrest Addy
06-24-2012, 06:10 AM
WTH This is really cool so I double posted it:

This engine was NOT made on a 9" SB lathe by a retiree

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa3luVezzq4

See and rejoice 110 year old technology

flylo
06-24-2012, 08:21 AM
Amazing,thanks for posting!

Tamper84
06-24-2012, 08:55 AM
WOW huge!!! Im surprised it was spinning as fast as it was. I just cant imagine actually building,shipping, and assembling that in 1906! (or was it 1916???) I think it would of been neat to see that 40 foot flywheel being poured.

sasquatch
06-24-2012, 09:47 AM
Amazing piece of machine work!!


Also amazing what we as humans do to get a drink of water!!:eek:

Bob Fisher
06-24-2012, 03:00 PM
Large flywheels were usually cast in segments,at least the ones I have seen. I would, however love to see the machining of such a beast. Very interesting video. Bob.

tlfamm
06-24-2012, 08:59 PM
See also the associated web site:
http://cincinnatitriplesteam.org/

Interesting story of caisson "float" problems & solution during construction of the station:
http://cincinnatitriplesteam.org/rs_construction.htm

Links to all 3 videos of the engine:
http://cincinnatitriplesteam.org/GCWW_videos.htm

alanganes
06-24-2012, 09:26 PM
Those videos were quite interesting. Nice to see an attempt to preserve stuff like this. One thing I find fascinating is that things like the edges of the crank throws look to polished (see starting about 8:45)to an almost mirror shiny finish. No obvious functional reason to do that, the makers apparently just took pride in what they made.

Thanks for posting those.

Grind Hard
06-24-2012, 09:40 PM
New favorite website, thanks!

Evan
06-24-2012, 10:04 PM
How does steam at -2 psi pressure move into the second receiver?

aboard_epsilon
06-24-2012, 10:41 PM
How does steam at -2 psi pressure move into the second receiver?

morlocks ..they must have helped out ..

its sounds exactly like the morlocks engines .

all the best.markj

JCHannum
06-24-2012, 11:14 PM
How does steam at -2 psi pressure move into the second receiver?

They use a vacuum condenser the same as used with the final stage of steam turbines.

Evan
06-25-2012, 02:14 PM
That still doesn't explain how "negative" pressure is going to be of any use for the third stage. It is called a "triple expansion" engine.

JCHannum
06-25-2012, 02:47 PM
Of course it does. The negative pressure is gauge pressure. Since the third stage exhausts into the condenser, at -2PSIG, there remains something approaching a -12PSIG differential for expansion in the final stage of expansion as the vacuum condenser is at negative pressure. The higher the vacuum in the condenser, the more efficient the engine system is.

Evan
06-25-2012, 03:24 PM
I will take your word for it. Some day I will look up how it works. Steam engines are not a major interest of mine.

JCHannum
06-25-2012, 04:00 PM
How gallant of you. The vacuum condensation principle was used with the very first steam engines. They were called atmospheric engines and used very low pressure steam which was condensed in the cylinder to produce a vacuum to counteract atmospheric pressure.

When Googling, start with the Newcomen engine.

http://peakengineering.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/newcomen-steam-engine-2.jpg

Forrest Addy
06-25-2012, 05:24 PM
According to theory a triple expansion engine developsd equal powed from every cylinder. Therefore somehow the HP cylinder develops roughy 5000 HP from 165 to 23 PSI, the IP 5000 from 23 PSI to -2 PSI, and the LP from -2 PSI to condenser vacuum (usually 22" Hb or -10.4 PSI).

Imagine all the energy going up the stack in the 100 years of choo choo train locos and river steam boats.

This takes us to steam engine indicators, indicator cards, and planimeters. Anyone care to take a cut at it?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Antique-Bushnell-Steam-Engine-Indicator-In-Original-Oak-Box-W-Paperwork-Old-/120935157561?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c284c0f39

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planimeter

And an oddity for the terminally curious:

http://www.planimetervault.com/hatchet/hatchet.html

lugnut
06-25-2012, 06:14 PM
Amazing ! I would bet you wouldn't be able to read the start-up/operating manual in one session and get it running. The manual alone would probably out weigh me. Just all that linkage alone would keep someone full time adjusting it. WOW Thanks for sharing.

JCHannum
06-25-2012, 06:26 PM
Indicators, indicator cards and planimeters are a bit too involved to explain in a hundred words or less. Basically the indicator is a device that measures the pressure in a steam engine cylinder and plots it on a card with respect to piston position. The planimeter is used to measure the area of the generated diagram. They were used, among other things, for tuning the engines, adjusting valve timing, balancing double acting and duplex engines and calculating output.

I have a Thompson Indicator as well as the Hawkins Indicator Catechism. The indicator is dated 1888, the catechism is the 1903 edition;

http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn351/jchannum/P1100692.jpg

I have a Cosby Swiss manufactured planimeter and an improved Willis Planimeter. These are 1900 or earlier vintage;

http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn351/jchannum/P1100694.jpg

http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn351/jchannum/P1100695.jpg

To round things off, I have a Biddle Tachymeter of approximately the same vintage;

http://i320.photobucket.com/albums/nn351/jchannum/P1100697.jpg

These same instruments were also used with early internal combustion engines as well as air compressors.

Grind Hard
06-25-2012, 11:54 PM
Are the original boilers still intact? Pre-B&W Sterling Boilers if they are still intact I will have to haul my ass out there. I've got an archive of B&W stuff like you would not believe, I'd love to get some photos.

J Tiers
06-26-2012, 12:35 AM
Boilers are already made into chinese toasters and dollar store goods.....

The indicators and so forth were used with marine diesel engines also.....

mlucek
06-26-2012, 04:58 PM
I too have 3 steam indicators. Very interesting devices. Look like a mad doctor put them together. Such a variety of them too. I would love to see one actually working. One of mine came with a couple of dozen indicator cards with the charts intact. Pretty cool to see the charts just like in the above mentioned book !!

Also look at Kew Bridge Steam Museum (Britain):

http://www.kbsm.org/

Engines:

http://www.kbsm.org/engines

Be prepared to spend a bit of time on their site. For you folks in England, go see them ! If I ever get back to Britain, that'll be one of my stops :D


I've got an archive of B&W stuff like you would not believe, I'd love to get some photos.
I'd LOVE to see some of your photos as I find steam engines (especially loco's) endlessly fascinating ! PM me if you like :)

Mike

Fasttrack
06-26-2012, 06:07 PM
I too have 3 steam indicators. Very interesting devices. Look like a mad doctor put them together. Such a variety of them too. I would love to see one actually working. One of mine came with a couple of dozen indicator cards with the charts intact. Pretty cool to see the charts just like in the above mentioned book !!

Also look at Key Bridge Steam Museum (Britain):

http://www.kbsm.org/

Engines:

http://www.kbsm.org/engines

Be prepared to spend a bit of time on their site. For you folks in England, go see them ! If I ever get back to Britain, that'll be one of my stops :D


I'd LOVE to see some of your photos as I find steam engines (especially loco's) endlessly fascinating ! PM me if you like :)

Mike


And I'd LOVE to see some pictures of your steam indicators. Never knew anything about that before this thread... fascinating!

MrSleepy
06-26-2012, 06:24 PM
Also look at Key Bridge Steam Museum (Britain):



If you come over you should also visit the Allis engines at Kempton (which are also supposed to be the bigest triples itw)

http://www.kemptonsteam.org/

and for shear power the 12000bhp River Don engine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Don_Engine

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOBSfdBWSWY

Rob

Grind Hard
06-26-2012, 10:53 PM
Boilers are already made into chinese toasters and dollar store goods.....

The indicators and so forth were used with marine diesel engines also.....


BAH! :mad:

mlucek
06-27-2012, 01:40 PM
And I'd LOVE to see some pictures of your steam indicators. Never knew anything about that before this thread... fascinating!

I don't have any pictures handy, but here's a good page with lots of info:

http://www.archivingindustry.com/Indicator/contentback.htm

Still kicking myself for selling another indicator that was in beautiful shape to another guy. Should have kept that one and sold him one of my other ones that wasn't quite so nice :p

Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pressure_volume_diagram

Mike

Fasttrack
06-27-2012, 02:50 PM
I don't have any pictures handy, but here's a good page with lots of info:

http://www.archivingindustry.com/Indicator/contentback.htm


Mike


Thanks for the link! Looks like a great page - got it book marked for reading.

Black Forest
06-27-2012, 03:35 PM
I hope Brian doesn't see this thread! If so we will be in for a long ride this winter.

Peter S
06-27-2012, 07:06 PM
If you come over you should also visit the Allis engines at Kempton (which are also supposed to be the bigest triples itw) Rob

Rob, to keep the record straight - the Kempton engines were built by Worthington Simpson.

mlucek
06-28-2012, 02:42 PM
Hmmm, there was a reply here today or yesterday about the Cincinnati Triple Steam engine. I got an email from this thread and now can't find it. Oh well, here's the site :

Cincinnati Triple Steam - Host for the World's Largest Triple Expansion Steam Engine

http://cincinnatitriplesteam.org/

An interview with Larry Moster from the Greater Cincinnati Water Works, GCWW, and Lee Hite with Cincinnati Triple Steam, CTS, at MTTV.

Weighing in at 1,400 tons these 103 feet high 1,000 h.p. engines are the largest triple expansion crank & flywheel water pumping steam engines ever built. They reside at the Greater Cincinnati Water Works where we invite you to explore a state-of-the-art, high volume, and high quality water pumping system for a growing community in the early 1900s. Part 1 covers the engines and Part 2 covers the water pumps and the process steam generation. Part 3 will cover the construction history for a unique below grade pump house.

Video:

World's Largest Triple Expansion Steam Engine

G C W W Engines Part - 1 (Engine Operations)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa3luVezzq4

G C W W Engines Part - 2 (Water pumping components and the production of process steam)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-0Ngwn7Ve4

Introduction Cincinnati Triple Steam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-Fr3Rjn8iQ