Milling Machines

[KenS]

What won't a horizontal milling machine do that a vertical machine will do?

[Mcostello]

1-drill holes,also using dividing heads
2-bore holes,recesses,such as oil seal counterbores
3-make a full depth keyway of exact lenght and placement.
4-coumpound angles
Obviously you could always find a way to get a job done, but you can't beat the versatility and ease of setup of a vertical mill.

[halfnut]

Sometimes it can do more, easier, and quicker.

But usually it is more aukward, and doesn't have a sensitive spindle.

A rebuilding shop here in town has an ancient horizontal, I think it's a cincinatee, they use it as a lathe for facing seal faces in water pumps. They have an expanding collet setup and the swing is a lot.

Lots of compound angles have been cut on a horz. but you will have to hold the part at that compound angle instead of swiveling head like a Bridgeport.

OK I traded off my horizontal for a big lathe because I didn't use much because I had Vert.

Sometimes I wished I had it back.

[halfnut]

WAIT, I just thought of one.

Drilling and tapping, drilling is no trick, but the tapping could get tricky.

[hammer]

What can I do on a horizontal that you guys can't do on a vertical:
Cut Gears.
Mill 1/8" slots 3" deep.
Use a 6" face mill with power feed.
Mill flutes on a drill or reamer.
Make multiple cuts with a gang of cutters on an arbor.
And the list goes on & on!!!

[hammer]

More thoughts on the horizontal debate:

My B&S has a shaping head that will cut slots to a right angle surface.

It also has a 90 degree head that can be set as many ways as my Bridgeport head can.

It also has power feed in all directions.

With the universal table I can cut any angle within reason without offsetting the work piece.

[artificer in metal]

Just to muddy the waters even further! I have milled some very narrow slots very deeply using a vertical machine - but it was a big solid machine. I think what needs to be said is the size power and rigidity you (!!!) need - or what you think you want to do. I personally would prefer a universal machine with an apug head (a head I can swivel in 2 axis) but these are not generally available on a #1 or 2 mill. But if you could find a #3 mill with this setup that was in good shape there would be very very little you would not be able to tackle!!

[KenS]

Hmmm, this is a difficulty. I'm very new at this, am only just beginning to feel very friendly toward my South Bend Heavy 10. It's all true, belts are new, everything is adjusted just so with the exception of a need for a new crossfeed nut as I've got some .025" of freeplay in that. (the nut is $71. from SB).

But I think that this is only half of the realm. I am getting to be able to cut cylindrical things and can ream and (now thread. Yet there are straight things to do, rectangles, angles, and like that.

I know that a mill is on the horizon, but what mill? I've no room for a Bridgeport yet. My wife retires in Nov. and we're relocating to Oregon where everyone seems to have a huge shop space as a matter of course. I should wait, but I won't.

Thus the question above. There was a very clean Clausing 8540 in ebay (it sold for $710.). It looked a far cry better than these Taiwanese jobs-- the Rung-Fu, and the like, and it I could fit in. I didn't go for it because of this apparently ongoing debate. I'm just too inexperienced to make any educated choices.

So now it's back to looking at these 'benchtop' machines from Asia. The mini-miill is out; it's just too rinky dink even though it may be able to do some (small) things passably. But the bigger ones, the 6" x 21" or thereabout machines could fill my needs as they are now. Training tools that can make some parts. Still rinky dink, but maybe less so.

Is there a workable small vertical mill that's made with the sort of quality that older flat belt American lathes have? One that needs only a 4' square footprint? If there is I haven't found it, and I'm pretty net savvy when I need to know something.

Or do I just get out my card and place my order with Enco, or maybe Grizzly? Would I be able then to show my face here again? http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

[Robert Jones]

Ken, I have been looking at mills for about a year now. I have the same problems as you, space, Us vs foreign, cost, etc. On a couple of different occasions there has been mention of the A1S model at Grizzly. It has a reasonably small foot print,mid size table and good price. When I buy, sometime in the next year or so, I think that will be the one.however,if a Clausing 8520/30 vertical or 8540 horizontal should come along I would snap it up. You can't rule out all of your options, leave some room to maneuver. I think any of these choices above would be more than adequate for a home shop. As for pitting one type versus another, use what you have and be inventive and adapt it for your requirements and abilities. Bobby

[MikeHenry]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by KenS:
[
Is there a workable small vertical mill that's made with the sort of quality that older flat belt American lathes have? One that needs only a 4' square footprint? If there is I haven't found it, and I'm pretty net savvy when I need to know something.

Or do I just get out my card and place my order with Enco, or maybe Grizzly? Would I be able then to show my face here again? http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

[/B]</font>

I've got a very nice Clausing 8520 vertical that is just about perfect for a basement shop. Easy to break down and move, reasonable work envelope, and very nice to use. They go for $1,000 to $3,000 depending on condition, location, and source. Old US iron in the same class (size) also includes Burke Millrite and Rockwell.

Enco sells an import knee mill that is also pretty decent. About the same size as the 8520, but has 0.125 graduations on the dials, instead of the 0.100 of the 8520.

I've also got a Clausing 8540 horizontal that is still in pieces and being gradually rebuilt. I'm hoping to use it for slab milling and the few other odd jobs where it is better suited than the 8520. In my experience a vertical knee mill is a much better tool for the home shop than a horizontal mill.

[charlie coghill]

Hi KenS.
As I live in Oregon E-mail me if you would like and tell what city you will be moving to.
Maybe I could be of some help.
charlie

[KenS]

Hi Charlie.

We've been looking hard at Roseburg, but we may end up in Coquille or Myrtle Point because they're cooler. It's just that no one agrees about how hot it gets in the I-5 portions of the state. People toward the coast say it's sooo hot; people in the middle say the coast is sooo miserably wet and grey. If it's like Redding down here (CA) I want nothing to do with it. Got an honest answer for me?

I've got some family in Ashland, some more in Eugene. That's not a big factor.

Yeah. Off topic.

[KenS]

Back to topic: What is Steinel Mill? A German vertical mill, but nothing in the net about them. Anyone have any information?

[charlie coghill]

Hi Ken. No honest answer and off topic once more. It seems if you are from Redding or Bakersfield and move up here it is cool. If you are from SF. it is hot here. We are located in prospect, about two hours from Roseburg on hiway 62

Now back to the topic.

I have a bridgeport type mill and there are some things that I would like a horizontal for, but have been quite pleased with the vertical. The only job I could not figure out how to do, was bore a engine frame for a 1/4 scale case steam tractor. It would have been a snap to do on a horizontal.

[Dennis Erdelac]

HI I just bought a Jet 16 used It seems to be of pretty decent quality. It certainly works better for milling slots than when I used a barnes gear head drill press! I looked at wholesale tool and did'nt like the way the it looked. The giant bridgeport clones were very nice looking. There might be a difference in quality of stuff produced on the mainland and in Taiwan. There seems to be a price difference directly related to the quality. Try Harborfreight.com they seem to have a different selection than the other importers. Campbelltools.com a hsm advertiser has Rusnock which is USA made and looks very nice. It is made like the Clausing. Good Luck DE

[rweaver106]

Hi - I have a No. 12 Garvin horizontal mill, I have had it about a year now, and I'm in the process of rebuilding it right now. I was lucky enough to win a bid on ebay for this machine and ended up paying only $150.00 for it. There are several dates i have been able to locate on the machine - one is the patent date of July 1900 - and inside the coloumn is a handy storage space where some had wrote in pencil Sep 1927.. overall the mill is in good shape, a little wear - but pretty tight overall. Originally the machine looks to have been powered by an overhard belt system - but has since been converted to be used with an electric motor.

Just recently I found a Garvin dividing head on ebay - a No. 12 - the dividing head made for my machine _ I was also able to buy the dividing head for less then $100 - needs a little work but thats half the fun anyways..

But - if anyone is looking for a small - floor type horizontal - with a smaller foot print - about 3' by 2' - this is an excellent machine. I did see one for sale on the net - searched for Garvin on yahoo to find more information on the machine that I have and ran acroos one that was for sale.. that was quite a while ago though..

if anybody out there has any or knows where I may find some information about this mill that I have I would appreciate the help.

As for a vertical mill being better than a horizontal - well I have spent some time running both and both machines are very versatile - each having advantages over the other...

[2lcts]

If you take your time and plan your work carefully you can do most anything you will want with either vertical or horizontal. Most makers had vertical heads to go on their horizontals anyway.

[toff]

Maybe on track?
Much of what a horizontal mill is good for can be accomplished with ingenuity and luck. But, a better idea is the right-angle head and attachments for a Bridgeport type mill. The right angle head can be used for facing and boring in the horizontal direction, and the complete attachment used for wheel type cutters.
This is to be puchased when nothing else works and as a last resort when doing five sides or more of an object. It may only be used a few times a year, but is invaluable when needed.
At times I have been able to borrow one but, have bought one for every shop that I have supervised.
luck
toff

[nels]

Check out the site:
http://www.lagun.com/rlmtc-products.htm

They have combination horizontal/vertical mills, the best of both worlds.