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gbritnell
07-18-2012, 12:22 PM
To anyone who is a member of the HMEM forum and is able to log in would you please notify one of the administrators that there is some kind of SNAFU going on with trying to log in and or resetting one's password.
Thanks,
gbritnell

philbur
07-18-2012, 03:46 PM
I can't get in either so I've sent an email.

Phil:)

mklotz
07-18-2012, 03:49 PM
We know about it, George.

Rick, the owner, sold the site to a group in Texas. The professionalism with which the transfer is being handled leaves a lot, a whole lot, to be desired.

I managed to connect with the new site after a lot of screwing around but now, within the last few minutes, it's arbitrarily kicked me off again.

Give it a day or two. I expect it to get worse, a lot worse, before it gets better.

gbritnell
07-18-2012, 03:59 PM
Hi Marv,
I finally got an email with a new password. I was able to get in and change to another password. It took about 9 tries since trying to log in this morning.
George

George Bulliss
07-18-2012, 04:11 PM
I was planning on signing up today or tomorrow to put a call out for photos of Ray HasBrouckís engines, but looks like I might want to wait.

John Stevenson
07-18-2012, 04:26 PM
You might want to rethink before you sign up to the new site.

From the new owners rules :-

6.2. By posting content on the Websites, you also grant, and warrant that you have the authority to grant, the Company a perpetual, royalty-free, non-exclusive worldwide right and license to display, reproduce, adapt, modify, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform, play, make available to the public, use, and exercise all copyright and publicity rights with respect to any and all content that you post on the Websites. If you do not wish to grant Group Builder these rights, do not submit content to the Website.



Sorry deleted my profile and all bookmarks to the site

lazlo
07-18-2012, 04:31 PM
Wow, he sold the HMEM forum? What did he sell? The membership list, the content posted there, the ad service...?

George Bulliss
07-18-2012, 04:32 PM
Okay, Iíll just get someone else to do it!

Pretty heavy handed approach; wonder how thatís going to pan out. Too bad too, it was a nice site.

John Stevenson
07-18-2012, 04:35 PM
George,
i think a lot of the members might graduate over to the Madmodder forum. http://madmodder.net/index.php

A lot are member of both anyway.

Nice forum.

George Bulliss
07-18-2012, 04:36 PM
Had a PM that this group was the one that purchased them.

http://www.groupbuilder.com/about/

lazlo
07-18-2012, 04:40 PM
"Group Builder also actively acquires forums and niche content websites.

Group Builder has been active in discussion forums since 2001 and has developed the knowledge of what it takes to successfully manage a community in a wide array of verticals.

If you are the owner of a forum and are open to the idea of selling please contact us. We are open to all subject matters and can offer a quick and smooth transition for both yourself and your community. In addition to a great team of community administrators we have the technical resources to handle the transfer from start to finish no matter what platform you are running on. "

Is this even legal?


1.4. Any dispute relating in any way to your visit to or use of our Websites shall be submitted to confidential arbitration in San Marcos, Texas, USA except that, to the extent you have in any manner violated or threatened to violate our intellectual property rights, we may seek injunctive or other appropriate relief in any state or federal court in the state of Texas, USA and you consent to exclusive jurisdiction and venue in such courts, and waive any objection to such jurisdiction or venue. Arbitration under this Agreement shall be conducted under the rules then prevailing of the American Arbitration Association. The arbitrators’ award shall be binding and may be entered as a judgment in any court of competent jurisdiction. To the fullest extent permitted by applicable law, no arbitration under this Agreement shall be joined to an arbitration involving any other party subject to this Agreement, whether through class arbitration proceedings or otherwise.

John Stevenson
07-18-2012, 04:50 PM
Bleeding Texans, should be shot :D

john hobdeclipe
07-18-2012, 05:10 PM
Bleeding Texans, should be shot :D

I'm glad I don't happen to be bleeding at the moment!

lazlo
07-18-2012, 05:14 PM
Bleeding Texans, should be shot :D

Well, Austin isn't in Texas, but San Marcos is close enough :)

Group Builder:


"Through our growing portfolio we have developed a network of interconnected traffic, content, and server infrastructure."

So Group Builder apparently bought the content from the HMEM site. But you can't apply that IP ownership clause post-facto, and there are issues of explicit and implicit copyrights, third-party posts, citations from copyrighted sources, posts that are flat-out plagiarized...

Boy, this will be a barrel of monkeys!

Lew Hartswick
07-18-2012, 05:29 PM
I'm disappointed in that operation. Rick was (may still be) a good one.
I just recd. an e-mail from one of the admin. about the re-doing of
login and told him to take care of it since I couldn't make it work.
Now that I hear all this I may just leave. Oh well I'm not really an
engine modeler anyway and this and another site (mostly are good
old boys in TX) will have to suffice. :-)
...Lew...

90LX_Notch
07-18-2012, 05:46 PM
What a sad day. That site changed my life. What a shame.

I logged out of the old site, deleted the link in Favorites and blocked the Sender and Domain Name in my e-mail. Next I'll clear out any Cookies that refer to it.

Rex
07-18-2012, 05:59 PM
"...our propriety content management system..."

Said content being provided by the forum members, who surrender all rights to said content.

John Stevenson
07-18-2012, 06:24 PM
Group Builder has been active in discussion forums since 2001 and has developed the knowledge of what it takes to successfully manage a community in a wide array of verticals.


Can someone explain the buzzwords please ? does that mean they are stand up guys ?

Alistair Hosie
07-18-2012, 06:39 PM
Sounds like someone was given an offer he couldn't refuse eh? :DAlistair

PTSideshow
07-18-2012, 07:11 PM
Can someone explain the buzzwords please ? does that mean they are stand up guys ?
[/COLOR][/FONT]
They think they know how to make money with it:D

Peter N
07-18-2012, 07:19 PM
They think they know how to make money with it:D

More like lose money now, with people removing their pictures and files, and threatening to set up new 'HMEM' forums.
He's already getting tetchy, locking and deleting posts, and winging about peoples criticisms :D

uncle pete
07-18-2012, 07:33 PM
More like lose money now, with people removing their pictures and files, and threatening to set up new 'HMEM' forums.
He's already getting tetchy, locking and deleting posts, and winging about peoples criticisms :D

Nelson bought HMEM?:D

Evan has posted something in the last year or so about copyrite rules, and it's my understanding that original work is automaticlly under your copyrite. But I guess it doesn't much matter if I'm right or wrong.

Yeah I'd agree, it was a pretty good forum. There's been some amazing work posted there.

Pete

Mike Amick
07-18-2012, 08:27 PM
I think I am hearing a lot of over reacting. I think that most people would be
shocked to read/study the fine print on most registration pages.

And I believe that most people would be thrilled to have their projects
re posted or publicized. That's why they posted the pics in the first place,
for a justifiable gloat.

When is the last time you posted and thought .. gee I hope someone doesn't
copy ... or .. steal this picture .. or show it to somebody else ?

I'm talking about the normal guy ... if you are truly worried about copywrite,
then don't post.

hitandmissman
07-18-2012, 10:09 PM
Yes, it used to be a good site but now that will change. Someone said to give it a chance. Well when they tell ya to reset your password and the new password they send you doesn't work even after many tries that doesn't say much about the new site. I learned a lot from that site and thanks to all the helped make it a worthwhile site to go to. But like many others guess it is time to move on. Only problem move where. Any suggestions

Mcgyver
07-18-2012, 10:51 PM
I'm guessing that I'm not the only one who can't edit old posts there....thank goodness the pics are all photo bucket!

lazlo
07-18-2012, 11:33 PM
I'm guessing that I'm not the only one who can't edit old posts there...

I bet that's why they're resetting all the passwords -- so you have to accept the Group Builder terms of service before you log back in :rolleyes:

oldtiffie
07-18-2012, 11:46 PM
Well I guess the owner/moderator has all the top cards and he sets and administers/enforces the rules as he sees fit.

Basically its the same here and PM - and a lot of others too I'd reckon.

Like it or lump it - it his rules or catch the bus.

Mcgyver
07-18-2012, 11:51 PM
I bet that's why they're resetting all the passwords -- so you have to accept the Group Builder terms of service before you log back in :rolleyes:

I reset the PW, but I can't see any way of editing a post...sort of like PM where you only have a day or so

oldtiffie
07-19-2012, 12:10 AM
How retrospective are those rules for ownership, copyright etc?

macona
07-19-2012, 01:10 AM
Not retroactive at all.

Astronowanabe
07-19-2012, 03:41 AM
Quote:
Group Builder has been active in discussion forums since 2001 and has developed the knowledge of what it takes to successfully manage a community in a wide array of verticals.


Can someone explain the buzzwords please ? does that mean they are stand up guys ?
[/COLOR][/FONT]

not my field but as I understand it, "markets" are classified by whether you milk many of people for a little, or a few people for allot.
so a vertical market is composed of relatively few people you are going to pretend to fuss & faun over as you line them up for the big one

philbur
07-19-2012, 04:15 AM
+1. Nice one Mike, a bit of common sense.

Was that a feeding frenzy I hear coming this way.

Seems to me that all clause 6.2 does is allow the site owner and users to use a post without the risk of being chased for copyright infringement. It's not the site owner being an arse-hole it's to stop the poster being an arse-hole.

Phil:)

6.2. By posting content on the Websites, you also grant, and warrant that you have the authority to grant, the Company a perpetual, royalty-free, non-exclusive worldwide right and license to display, reproduce, adapt, modify, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform, play, make available to the public, use, and exercise all copyright and publicity rights with respect to any and all content that you post on the Websites. If you do not wish to grant Group Builder these rights, do not submit content to the Website.




I think I am hearing a lot of over reacting. I think that most people would be
shocked to read/study the fine print on most registration pages.

And I believe that most people would be thrilled to have their projects
re posted or publicized. That's why they posted the pics in the first place,
for a justifiable gloat.

When is the last time you posted and thought .. gee I hope someone doesn't
copy ... or .. steal this picture .. or show it to somebody else ?

I'm talking about the normal guy ... if you are truly worried about copywrite,
then don't post.

velocette
07-19-2012, 05:34 AM
Hi this seems to have got right under the skin of quite a number of you about who owns what.
My understanding is that if you post on any forum then it is in the "Public Domain".
Once you have done this them the forum has the right to use this information for their own use regardless.
What happens when you post your life history and all you family tree on "Facebox or Twatter on any other online vacuum cleaner.
They have enough Data to make very worth their while.

Eric

willmac
07-19-2012, 07:49 AM
My understanding is that if you post on any forum then it is in the "Public Domain".
Eric

No, and certainly not in the case of the new HMEM because they want to impose their clause 6.2. The clause gives them specific rights and you make specific warranties that releasing to the public domain would not provide.

George Bulliss
07-19-2012, 07:52 AM
The idea that just because something is in the ďpublic domainĒ that copyright laws do not apply is simply not true. In fact, a lot of what copyright does cover is in the public domain: books, music, movies, newspapers, etc. The delivery method (over the internet) doesnít change copyright law.

Being a publisher, we deal with copyright violations every day; itís just part of the business. Because we are often on the losing end of copyright violations, we do everything we can to make sure that we are not part of the problem.

Since this thread has veered into copyright discussion, Iíll offer a little insight into how Village Press handles the issue with our books, magazines, and this board.

When it comes to the content on this board, we treat it exactly the same as we do for the magazines or books. Your words and your photos or drawings are, and always are yours. If we want to use them for something, we will obtain permission from the author, arrange compensation that works for both parties, and use the material under the rules of First North American Serial Rights. Meaning, we will have the right to publish the work for a one time use.

Should we wish to re-publish the work, we would need to go through it all over again and obtain the rights from the author. We run into this all the time with our books and do have problems with some of the older ones in tracking down the heirs to the authors so we can get rights for another run. This is one reason that some of the older Projects and Metalworking books, which are compilations of old magazine articles, may not make the list for reprinting. Itís not easy tracking down 20 authors from the 1980s.

Although we only have the rights for a one time use of the article (or post) we do retain some rights to the finished product. We retain the rights to the editing and layout work done and anyone wishing to use the article in its finished, printed form will need our permission.

Since the author retains the rights to his words and materials, anyone wishing to use the finished article will also need the authorís permission.

We hold no rights over the authorís original work though, only what was worked on and changed by us. The author is free to do whatever he wants with the material, including passing it to another magazine. However, he canít pass the finished, edited version along without our permission.

Obviously, not everyone does things the same way, as this thread makes clear.

lazlo
07-19-2012, 01:58 PM
Obviously, not everyone does things the same way, as this thread makes clear.

You're one of the good guys George. I don't think we point that out often enough :)

The part I find unpalatable about this is that Group Builder bought the content of HMEM. That means they paid for the combined contributions of the HMEM members.
I was explaining this to my Wife (an artist) last night, and she said: "That's like opening up a free gallery, where everyone can come to paint, and then selling off the paintings."

Exactly.

Aside from the issues I mentioned above (implied copyrights, third party posts of other people's work, etc), there's also the issue that folks like Brian, Sir John and McGyver cross-post their work on several forums. So what did Group Builder buy? :confused:

philbur
07-19-2012, 05:01 PM
Lazlo, I don't think you have actually read the copyright clause. All it does is ensure that the site owner can continue to make the material available to the members. The copyright still remains with the poster. Apparently it's pretty much a standard clause. To use your free art gallery analogy, all it does is prevent the artists, at some later time, demanding payment for the the showing of copies of their art or to insist on having the copies removed.

Phil:)


I was explaining this to my Wife (an artist) last night, and she said: "That's like opening up a free gallery, where everyone can come to paint, and then selling off the paintings."

Exactly.

Aside from the issues I mentioned above (implied copyrights, third party posts of other people's work, etc), there's also the issue that folks like Brian, Sir John and McGyver cross-post their work on several forums. So what did Group Builder buy? :confused:

Mcgyver
07-19-2012, 05:26 PM
so its a media company....anyone have a sense of the metrics around a sale like this? how do they pay? must be some activity based formula. Anyone heard a number....just wondering how lucrative the discussion business is.

I haven't been there in years, but think no less of Rich for selling it. I doubt he retired from the sale, he sold the domain which his hard work created and I could easily see it becoming too much to handle part time. After building it up, I could also see how it would be challenging to hand it over to another part timer; you;d want to lots of confidence in how your baby was to be treated

Maybe with all the other change, this would be an opportune time to introduce a model engineering sub forum here. I know lots of us like active OT disucssions that might to outsiders seem a over the top....but we could have a Model Engineering forum that woulc be no BS or OT, keep it a family type of thing. A few posters caused me to lose interest in Ricks site, and it would be good have a bit more model engineering content here. It's a subject many of us are interested in while others could care less so might do better as a sub forum.

chevy3755
07-19-2012, 05:42 PM
think i will be moving on.................

lazlo
07-19-2012, 06:00 PM
Lazlo, I don't think you have actually read the copyright clause.

I'm not referring to the copyright clause. Group Builder didn't buy the domain, they bought the posts that are on the HMEM domain, and traffic from the users that frequent(ed) the domain.

The equivalent would be if George sold off the contents of the Shop-Made Tools thread.

philbur
07-19-2012, 07:29 PM
Then I don't understand how the web address is still:

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com

He didn't buy one thread. It's seems to me he bought the whole web site?

Phil:)


I'm not referring to the copyright clause. Group Builder didn't buy the domain, they bought the posts that are on the HMEM domain, and traffic from the users that frequent(ed) the domain.

The equivalent would be if George sold off the contents of the Shop-Made Tools thread.

oldtiffie
07-19-2012, 08:03 PM
[/Quote]
Originally Posted by philbur

Lazlo, I don't think you have actually read the copyright clause.[/Quote]


I'm not referring to the copyright clause. Group Builder didn't buy the domain, they bought the posts that are on the HMEM domain, and traffic from the users that frequent(ed) the domain.

The equivalent would be if George sold off the contents of the Shop-Made Tools thread.

Lazlo,

I think that in his recent post George made it clear that any property of a member here remains the property (copyright) of the member and can neither be sold or otherwise used without the written permission of the member - such as the contents of the Shop-Made Tools thread.

So that is not an issue here.

danlb
07-19-2012, 08:58 PM
I think that in his recent post George made it clear that any property of a member here remains the property (copyright) of the member and can neither be sold or otherwise used without the written permission of the member - such as the contents of the Shop-Made Tools thread.

So that is not an issue here.

:) George really is doing that.

He is selling that info, as a book. He made his intentions clear in the thread long ago. He's contacted people who posted to get permission. He's offered me a copy of the book as compensation.

That's quite fair.

Gadget builder is asking for blanket permission before you post. They also want several other rights to go with it. It looks like they can sell your posts to a third party for whatever use they have in mind. I'd hate to see my work appear in Popular Mechanics. I do not like that magazine. George's model would ask my permission. Gadget builder's model will not, and will not allow me to say "NO".

Dan

Mike Amick
07-19-2012, 09:02 PM
I'm willing to bet that the people that bought it ( if that term is actually correct)
don't care and have nothing to do with machining.

I bet they just go around looking for sites that have huge hit counts. I suspect you
now are going to see a fair amount of advertising on that site. If you want to
complain .. that actually is something to bitch about .. grin.

They could care less about the posts or their contents. Hits is hits.

Mcgyver
07-19-2012, 09:06 PM
I bet they just go around looking for sites that have huge hit counts. I suspect you
now are going to see a fair amount of advertising on that site. If you want to
complain .. that actually is something to bitch about .. grin.

They could care less about the posts or their contents. Hits is hits.

they have stated only lurkers will see ads, signing in eliminates it.

you are right they, they don't care about the content....until for some commercial reason one day they do care.

They made one change right away, you can't go back and edit posts. don't like that.

lazlo
07-19-2012, 09:46 PM
George's model would ask my permission. Gadget builder's model will not

Exactly .


They could care less about the posts or their contents. Hits is hits.

If all they cared about was the hits, they wouldn't lock down the forum so the posters can't delete old posts, and they wouldn't ask you to waive all rights to any materials you post.

"Group Builder" was formerly "GCS Publishing" -- they specialize in "niche content." If you look at the other forums they bought, that includes wine making, Jeep Cherokees, RC planes...

https://play.google.com/store/apps/developer?id=GCS+Publishing,+Inc&hl=en

10KPete
07-20-2012, 01:40 AM
Why do I see ads in the header and on the left side when I'm signed in??????

Pete


they have stated only lurkers will see ads, signing in eliminates it.

you are right they, they don't care about the content....until for some commercial reason one day they do care.

They made one change right away, you can't go back and edit posts. don't like that.

philbur
07-20-2012, 03:37 AM
Does it really matter who owns the site? What does matter is if it is well managed or not, and for that you have to at least give them a chance. So if it goes commercial you get adverts, does handing the site to a person or group of persons who promise to run it for free ensure it remains well managed, not necessarily. So many other things we get for "free" actually rely on advertising. As George regularly points out, this forum only exists because it is in the owners' commercial interest, it’s part of a business. Come on guys, life’s too short.

Phil:)

90LX_Notch
07-20-2012, 05:39 AM
For those who don't know it yet, Bogs has started http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php for those with an interest in model engine building. The old group is starting to reform over there.

Mcgyver
07-20-2012, 09:30 AM
Why do I see ads in the header and on the left side when I'm signed in??????

Pete

no idea, when i sign in I get no ads, I just double checked. I also read an admins post somewhere that was the policy - ads for lurkers. I hadn't been there for ages so don't know if the ad thing is new or not; the shiny happy people mafia sort of wore me out but in fairness that's only 1% of the place. That locked post policy though will keep me away

lugnut
07-20-2012, 06:00 PM
One thing for sure is, they are very thin skinned, I noticed that the day after I signed in my Spam email grew from 50 per day to nearly 200, My email provider helps with a program (EdgeWave" that sorts out and quarantines spam and sends me the list of spam email each day. I suspected HMEM was selling email addresses (they did say they was in it for the money and nothing else). so I changed my email address to my secondary address on Yahoo.Com and guess what? Today the spam emails on Yahoo jumped from 20 per day to 175.
I made a post in their Break Room section and some one did not like it. The post was deleted and I can't sign in any more. Has any on here noticed a change in the spam emails you receive?
I have sent them a message but no answer.

uncle pete
07-20-2012, 09:04 PM
So far my spam count hasn't changed since logging into HMEM.

It's highly doubtful anything I've ever posted on that forum could be considered valuable enough to sell, but there's members both here and who are also members on that site that have posted many items that could have easily been a paid article for the Village Press magazines or other hobbiest type magazines. Those people freely put the time and effort into those posts and no one should be able to make a profit from their work without permission and compensation. Exactly how their new rules are worded do leave it wide open for what can be done at any time because they now "own" what all of these people have freely provided.

If we were to go back a bit, there was a forum and owner who I won't dignify by mentioning names who was pirating posts from other forums, then slapping another user name on it and passing it off as originally posted on that forum. however you personally judge it, that's theft. I'm not saying the new owners of HMEM will or will not ever sell any of the work that's been posted on that forum, but the way their new rules read, it allows them to do so without compensation to the author. Again in my definition, that's theft of something they don't have the rights to. Exactly how and why those new rules are worded that way make me really question the honesty, motives, and morality of the new owners to have them listed the way they are.

George explained very clearly what the Village Press position is, and there's nothing in his explanation that isn't more than fair. All of these forums exist and survive because of the membership and their input. Without that there's certainly no value in any forum. So it's a two way street between the forum owners and the members. I certainly wouldn't take credit for anyone's work on any job site I've ever worked at, and for any business to profit from anyone's intellectual property without that compensation is just wrong no matter how you try and justify it.

From what I see so far, there's been a few long standing members that willingly posted some very valuable information on that forum who are now banned and many posts deleted because they voiced their opinion about who really owns their work. It's easy to say that we should just be patient and wait and see what happens. But any forum that bans long standing members because they happen to have an opinion and wanting to remove their own work that for some reason doesn't agree with that new owner, is more than a bit suspect.

All forums have that list of rules that each member is required to follow. That's fine and understandable. I have my own set of rules that any forum must live up to also. My standards may not be high, but they are standards that I won't modify for anyone.

Pete

Tel
07-21-2012, 05:36 AM
For those who don't know it yet, Bogs has started http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php for those with an interest in model engine building. The old group is starting to reform over there.

Yep, come on in - the water's fine!

Pete49
07-21-2012, 06:10 AM
yep and busy already :D and friendly as a lot of the old mob are there
Pete

loose nut
07-21-2012, 09:47 AM
Anytime you/me/anyone posts something ANYWHERE on the web it is in the wild and can and will end up on many other web sites, info mining sites etc forever. If you don't want it to go somewhere else then don't post it onto the web. Trying to stop or undo someone else from taking your material, big or small, is just about impossible and very costly. Just ask the MPAA. Millions of people rob them everyday and so far everything that they have tried has failed.

That clause is probably just corporate legalese, all encompassing boilerplate, to protect them in the future from law suits, by posters, for something that they haven't thought to do yet. They are in it for the money not the hobby.

lazlo
07-21-2012, 11:19 AM
That clause is probably just corporate legalese, all encompassing boilerplate, to protect them in the future from law suits, by posters, for something that they haven't thought to do yet. They are in it for the money not the hobby.

Re-read what you wrote :)

loose nut
07-21-2012, 08:49 PM
"They are in it for the money not the hobby."

OK Lazlo, I don't get it, whats so funny:confused::confused::confused:

mike4
07-23-2012, 03:34 AM
Just registered , I have picked up a few pointers and short cuts from Bogs and others.
Michael

dp
07-23-2012, 03:44 AM
Just registered , I have picked up a few pointers and short cuts from Bogs and others.
Michael

Where did you register? Bogs is a sharp guy no matter where you find him. :)

Circlip
07-23-2012, 04:41 AM
Flurry in the chicken coop. Another seven day wonder. Never realised how many lawyers HMEM had on board. Lock down facility is a good idea, pity HMEM didn't have its own facility for posting pictures. Would have saved the sulkies making some posts look stupid by taking their shovel of sand out of the sandpit. Yet another new forum for some to troll their builds in.

Regards Ian.

mike4
07-23-2012, 05:00 AM
Where did you register? Bogs is a sharp guy no matter where you find him. :)

The New site which was started as an alternative to HMEM.

PTSideshow
07-23-2012, 07:41 AM
Here is the link modelenginemaker (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/)

lazlo
07-23-2012, 10:23 AM
Here is the link modelenginemaker (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/)

Hey, that's great! You guys can build up another model engineering forum, and then sell it off again. You'll get rich, one member at a time :D

dp
07-23-2012, 12:32 PM
It's kind of unfortunate he's (Bogs) changed his photobucket links to remove them from HMEM as it has also removed them from MadModder.

lazlo
07-23-2012, 12:50 PM
It's kind of unfortunate he's change his photobucket links to remove them from HMEM as it has also removed them from MadModder.

That's a major issue I mentioned with Group Builder believing that they bought the content from HMEM: Brian, Sir John, McGyver et al cross-post their builds on several forums. But the Group Builder TOS says that by posting on HMEM you have grant them a perpetual, royalty-free right to reproduce, adapt, modify, publish, or create derivative works from. I'm pretty sure that precludes the material from ever being published for a fee, for example, in Village Press, including a Tip Book.

John: I've never heard you described as a "sulky" before -- you'd better put your links back on HMEM so Group Builder gets their money's worth :D

philbur
07-23-2012, 02:09 PM
Yes but you can grant these privileges to any number of persons or entities.

Phil:)


But the Group Builder TOS says that by posting on HMEM you have grant them a perpetual, royalty-free right to reproduce, adapt, modify, publish, or create derivative works from. :D

John Stevenson
07-23-2012, 02:10 PM
I think the sulky reference was made to John Moore [ bogstandard ] and not to me. Although I was a member - still am actually I don't believe I have any worthwhile content on there as I don't build models.
In any case I host all my own pictures so can't really delete any without affecting other sites.

I like to read the site, interesting stiff on there but can't see me posting a build log any time soon.

dp
07-23-2012, 02:30 PM
Yes but you can grant these privileges to any number of persons or entities.

Phil:)

HMEM can copyright any compilations but nothing on the pages. For example if they create a coffee table album of projects you cannot reproduce any of the pages even if you own the images, but you can reproduce the images on the pages if they have not been modified (comment panels, reference tags, etc).

dp
07-23-2012, 03:20 PM
The New site which was started as an alternative to HMEM.

I was on the MEM (no H) site this morning and it looks like they're in a death match with the CNC zone for creating the most possible forum categories. They're popping up faster than summer freckles. If that keeps up I'll probably lose interest. It makes for a lot of hopping around following bunny trails just to do some casual reading and following projects in progress. CRS is bad enough already :)

lazlo
07-23-2012, 03:26 PM
I think the sulky reference was made to John Moore [ bogstandard ] and not to me.

Wow, that's pretty harsh. The few times I've been over there, Bogs seemed like a major contributor. Glad to see he's the one who set-up the new forum: wish you guys luck!

dp
07-23-2012, 03:33 PM
Wow, that's pretty harsh. The few times I've been over there, Bogs seemed like a major contributor. Glad to see he's the one who set-up the new forum: wish you guys luck!

He didn't - he just did the leg work to get the word out. The Anonymous Admin did the technicals. Bogs was a big part of HMEM, for sure and I expect that will carry over to MEM, and hopefully he will relink his stuff at MM.

BillTodd
07-23-2012, 05:12 PM
Hey, that's great! You guys can build up another model engineering forum, and then sell it off again. You'll get rich, one member at a time :D
Bogs and the others, are deliberately setting up the site with many administrators to avoid that possibility in future. As I understand it Bogs is initially funding the hosting but, long term, intends the forum to be self sustaining (e.g. by donation)

lazlo
07-23-2012, 05:23 PM
Bogs and the others, are deliberately setting up the site with many administrators to avoid that possibility in future. As I understand it Bogs is initially funding the hosting but, long term, intends the forum to be self sustaining (e.g. by donation)

I saw his post with plans to prevent another HMEM moment -- sounds very reasonable.

John Stevenson
07-23-2012, 05:43 PM
Bogs is chief moderator. The site is owned by Adrian ? forget his name.
Met him a while ago when he called round and bought some Edgwick faceplates, chucks and steadies off me.

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,164.0.html

lazlo
07-23-2012, 06:17 PM
The site is owned by Adrian ? forget his name.
Met him a while ago when he called round and bought some Edgwick faceplates, chucks and steadies off me.

http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php/topic,164.0.html

Wow, I don't know what a "dry sump for a BMW" is, but that's gorgeous machining!

John Stevenson
07-23-2012, 06:46 PM
Lazlo,
Basically you replace the sump on the engine with this plate and run a feed and scavenge pump and send the oil to a tank.
Helps twofold, one is you can get the car very low to the ground and secondly no flying oil cuts down internal losses.
Used in racing a lot.

Willy
07-23-2012, 06:55 PM
Lazlo,
Basically you replace the sump on the engine with this plate and run a feed and scavenge pump and send the oil to a tank.
Helps twofold, one is you can get the car very low to the ground and secondly no flying oil cuts down internal losses.
Used in racing a lot.

Yes indeed, very nice machine work. A lot of details there not shown, not too shabby for a manual machine!

In addition to J.S.'s description of the dry sump oil pan, a piece as substantial as this would also act as a bed plate for the engine block giving it somewhat more structural integrity. Another bonus in addition to the advantages already mentioned.

philbur
07-23-2012, 07:24 PM
I aways thought that the primary function of a dry sump was to avoid loss of oil pressure due to the high G forces causing the oil to temporarily migrate to the other end/side of the sump, thus uncovering the pump inlet.

Phil:)

Lew Hartswick
07-23-2012, 07:46 PM
I was on the MEM (no H) site this morning and it looks like they're in a death match with the CNC zone for creating the most possible forum categories. They're popping up faster than summer freckles. If that keeps up I'll probably lose interest. It makes for a lot of hopping around following bunny trails just to do some casual reading and following projects in progress. CRS is bad enough already :)
Sounds BAD! That is a main objection I have with any web site, too many seperate
forums. I have only been there once and registered but if what you say is the
direction I may not stay there. :-(
...Lew...

dp
07-23-2012, 08:38 PM
Sounds BAD! That is a main objection I have with any web site, too many seperate
forums. I have only been there once and registered but if what you say is the
direction I may not stay there. :-(
...Lew...

I wouldn't give up too soon. It's like chalk art on the streets of New York - always a good idea to check back in to see how it's coming along :)

SGW
07-23-2012, 10:31 PM
I asked Austin why he and Rick didn't do a joint announcement explaining what was going on when the changeover happened. He misinterpreted what I was asking and gave the "couldn't give any warning because people might delete content" response. I was not suggesting before-the-fact warning, but rather a "sticky" notice at the beginning of the new forum with information about the changeover.

To me, doing something like that seems so totally obvious a "damage control" step I continue to be amazed that apparently neither Austin nor Rick had any thought of it. Instead, Austin's approach seems to be, don't worry about people getting angry, they will get over it, and the ones who don't won't matter in the long run. If his stated history is reliable, he has taken over many other forums. It seems to me if he had any concern for forum members he would have figured out a way to "spin" the takeovers in such a way that at least tried to placate forum members. Making the switch a total surprise and allowing frenzied rumor and speculation before attempting a rather lame patch-up job strikes me as a really bad way to go about it.
A
All that is a roundabout way of saying, given the approach thus far on HMEM, I expect little concern for forum members.

uncle pete
07-23-2012, 11:57 PM
How or even if that one little detail that's now part of the new rules about just who retains copyright on that forum and if it will ever be used by the new owner is the main problem. And it is the huge issue for everyone. According to the little I understand, By law the author retains that copyright, and since it's binding law and has far more legalitys than his new rule that's worth less than the electrons it takes to show it. I can sympathise with anyone who does have a problem with it. Bog's I think mentioned he had over 4,000 pictures on that site alone. By anyones standards, that's a lot of time and effort involved. Pat Jorgenson is another that downloaded a huge amount of information that could be worth a lot.

I did modify my signature line today on HMEM that most likely will get me banned the next time I post. I could care less. I saw and wouldn't be a part of the totall B.S. that happened with the Hobbled Machinist forum. Any of my posts on HMEM are worthless, but no one dictates to me that they now somehow own what I've posted. If that issue doesn't get resolved in the next week or so? I'll just pick up my marbles and go play elsewhere. We all have that freedom of choice.

Pete

Circlip
07-24-2012, 03:47 AM
Something one of my mentors taught me at a very early age,

The ass (donkey for our colonial bretheran [althought their comprehension of the word would equally apply]) in assume is U

Regards Ian.

PatJ
07-25-2012, 03:13 PM
How or even if that one little detail that's now part of the new rules about just who retains copyright on that forum and if it will ever be used by the new owner is the main problem. And it is the huge issue for everyone. According to the little I understand, By law the author retains that copyright, and since it's binding law and has far more legalitys than his new rule that's worth less than the electrons it takes to show it. I can sympathise with anyone who does have a problem with it. Bog's I think mentioned he had over 4,000 pictures on that site alone. By anyones standards, that's a lot of time and effort involved. Pat Jorgenson is another that downloaded a huge amount of information that could be worth a lot.

I did modify my signature line today on HMEM that most likely will get me banned the next time I post. I could care less. I saw and wouldn't be a part of the totall B.S. that happened with the Hobbled Machinist forum. Any of my posts on HMEM are worthless, but no one dictates to me that they now somehow own what I've posted. If that issue doesn't get resolved in the next week or so? I'll just pick up my marbles and go play elsewhere. We all have that freedom of choice.

Pete

Unlike some, I did upload a significant amount of material to the old forum in the way of model engine drawings, but specifically noted on the post and on the drawings themselves that they were "Not for Commercial Use or Sale".
So yes, I had to insist that someone respond to my request about removing my drawings.
Numerous requests were finally met with a note from the admin person to contact a P.O. Box (which I did), and a permaban.

What a way to start a new forum, and what a way to treat long time contributors. Gosh.

I find the new terms of service unacceptable from a number of standpoints, but othes have stated they like the new TOS.
If you want to agree to TOS like that, then I guess you will get exactly what you wish for.

I did a quick survey of some of the statistics of my posts on HMEM, and on the Draftsight post that I contributed heavily too, and between my few posts, and the Draftsight post, there are over 100,000 views.
How many of the 100,00 are legitimate, I don't know.

Other contributors had 100,000 or more views on a single post, and I feel for these folks, but maybe they are all warm and fuzzy with the change of ownership.

It did get a lot from the other forum, and so I left my significant posts on that site dealing with 2D CAD tutorials, 3D modeling, etc.

Locking old posts on a site (or new ones for that matter) is not a method I would prescribe to, and probably not a good way to retain old contributors.
It almost seems like the work of the established guys is now being used for new people who want to view it.
Not sure how much new good material will transpire though given the history of what has happened on that site.

My drawings were offered to the old site in the spirit of keeping them available to modelers, and free of commercialization.
That spirit was violated, and that is why I asked that they be removed, and why I will insist that they remain removed.

There seems to be a great deal of confusion and misplaced acrimony between members across forums.
Lots of bitterness all around.

I have perhaps 500 hours invested into two sets of drawings, and while these drawings do not represent museum quality engines, they are fairly unique, and I think significant to some extent in the modeling world.

My drawings remain free, non-commercial, and available to all who will use them for purposes other than commercial uses.

Pat J

Blackadder
07-26-2012, 11:05 AM
guys anyone in the USA know of the data protection requirements re removing personal data from data bases ( web site )

the reason I ask is because I have asked Austin though the contact form at the bottom of the front page twice now and all i get back is i do not have permission to do a take down ( note I am not asking for the posts to be removed ) just my personal info email address ect

after the first request they say they had closed the acct but I am getting pm emails from a guy called ironclad but a quick look as a lurker does not show up a user by that name

so any ideas as to the way forwards

Stuart

George Bulliss
07-26-2012, 11:12 AM
I am getting pm emails from a guy called ironclad

Stuart

Just let a guy with that user name in yesterday, haven't seen anything from him yet. Let me know via a PM if there is anything about him I may want to know. Thanks

dsquire
07-27-2012, 03:40 AM
George

I am a Moderator at HMEM and MadModder. Yesterday we banned Ironclad. We had a report from one of the HMEM members that he had received an e-mail from Ironclad with links to Nelsons forum. We suspect that it may have been our famous lawyer friend from NY city that sent it. He was using a disposable e-mail and the IP was from Russia. I would love to be able to prove who in fact sent it but that will be pretty hard to do.

Cheers :)

Don

George Bulliss
07-27-2012, 08:50 AM
George

I am a Moderator at HMEM and MadModder. Yesterday we banned Ironclad. We had a report from one of the HMEM members that he had received an e-mail from Ironclad with links to Nelsons forum. We suspect that it may have been our famous lawyer friend from NY city that sent it. He was using a disposable e-mail and the IP was from Russia. I would love to be able to prove who in fact sent it but that will be pretty hard to do.

Cheers :)

Don

Thanks for that info; I had my doubts when I let him in. Your thoughts about our lawyer friend are probably spot on. No way to prove it but it does fit his MO.