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View Full Version : American Community Survey...Anybody else get this POS?



MaxxLagg
07-26-2012, 07:54 PM
What an invasion of privacy. Why the hell does the government need to know how many flush toilets I have or what time I leave for work? :mad: According to the Constitution, Article I, Section 2, Clause 3 of the Constitution the only information they are empowered to request is the number of people residing at a residence.

John Stevenson
07-26-2012, 08:09 PM
We had one ages ago, wanted to know who lived there so i put Me, ower Gert and Graham White as the Old English Sheepdog is gray and white.

Still get junk mail addressed to Graham White....................................

J Tiers
07-26-2012, 11:03 PM
No..............

flylo
07-26-2012, 11:05 PM
I'd ask them what a flush toilet was. Is that like a royal flush in poker?

Dr Stan
07-26-2012, 11:11 PM
No I have not received one. You may be interested in reading this article: http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-05-10/killing-the-american-community-survey-blinds-business

sasquatch
07-26-2012, 11:11 PM
Typical i think.

Just don't respond to it. Over the years i've had numerous types of questions, i just toss them into the stove.

loose nut
07-26-2012, 11:17 PM
Maybe the US government is going to balance the budget by selling your personal info to marketers.

+ or - Zero
07-27-2012, 12:20 AM
Would you believe this:

"The Department of Commerce has stated that those who receive a survey form are legally obligated to answer all the questions as accurately as possible. Those who decline to complete the survey may receive follow-up phone calls and/or visits to their homes from Census Bureau personnel. Section 221 of Title 13 U.S.C., makes it a misdemeanor to refuse or willfully neglect to complete the questionnaire or answer questions posed by census takers and imposes a fine of not more than $100. This fine was changed by the Sentencing Reform Act of 1984 from $100 to not more than $5,000."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Community_Survey

California has a every 5 year 'state census' that's a lot like this as to invasive questions. The solution in both cases, is that business are not required to take part. So may all your addresses be business addresses...

Of course YMMV, and all the usual disclaimers apply.

spongerich
07-27-2012, 12:26 AM
I have a hard time understanding that attitude.
Everyone loves to complain about how the government spends their tax dollars.
The American Community Survey was setup to gather information that can be used to direct some of that money in more effective ways.

Arcane
07-27-2012, 01:17 AM
From http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-05-10/killing-the-american-community-survey-blinds-business
The ACS—which has a long bipartisan history, including its funding in the mid-1990s and full implementation in 2005—provides data that help determine how more than $400 billion in federal and state funds are spent annually. I can't help but think that they should have determined where those funds were going to be spent before they gave them out...

Optics Curmudgeon
07-27-2012, 01:27 AM
Did it come via registered mail? If not, it didn't actually get there, did it? My shredder is a very hungry machine, and it loves stuff like this. One of my colleagues was laid off for a while and took a job as a census canvasser. He suggested that everyone throw forms like this away, because it creates work for people like him.

MaxxLagg
07-27-2012, 07:49 AM
No I have not received one. You may be interested in reading this article: http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-05-10/killing-the-american-community-survey-blinds-business

Thanks for the link. Yes, I've read that. One thing that stands out from the article is this; “The loss of the American Community Survey will cause chaos and inefficiency in the operations of business and government in the U.S.,”. Like this is going to help. It's just invasive. If you get a chance to peruse an actual copy of the survey you'd be astounded by some of the questions they ask.

MaxxLagg
07-27-2012, 07:58 AM
I have a hard time understanding that attitude.
Everyone loves to complain about how the government spends their tax dollars.
The American Community Survey was setup to gather information that can be used to direct some of that money in more effective ways.

I don't know. Maybe your location on the east coast has rendered your sense of privacy and general mistrust of our government inert. They're going to continue to take my tax dollars and spend them on ways that increases their power over the non-tax paying citizens (and even non-citizens) so why make it easier to identify whose is actually footing the bill in this country so they can in turn take MORE of my money? That's really what this is all about. They don't need to know ANY more than how many people are living under my roof, as outlined in the constitution for apportionment of House seats. Anything else is just meddling for the sake of redistribution.

loose nut
07-27-2012, 10:54 AM
[QUOTE=spongerich;786660
The American Community Survey was setup to gather information that can be used to direct some of that money in more effective ways.[/QUOTE]

I can see how something like knowing how many kids you have in school as important, for funding etc., but how is the number of toilets in your house relevant to anything.
Just so you know you country isn't the only one with this problem.

Forrest Addy
07-27-2012, 11:11 AM
There's three possible answers to the the American Community Survey.

One is to check into its bonefides and if satisfied fill out the information requested. Another is to check into its bonefides and if not satisfied decline for what ever reason motivates you. Those two are adult, rational, and reasonable responses.

The third is to fly off into a "Government intrusion" rant mouthing phrases taken from nutcase radio shows. That solves nothing and exposes you as just another touchy screwball.

It was mentioned the survey is another attempt to excract more taxes from the citizen. What's wrong with that? Are you a freeloader? Have you looked at the deficit? The National Debt? The USA has but two revenue streams, taxes and fees. The so called entitlement revenue is dedicated to pay-forward annuiities and services and is not to be lumped into the General Fund. In case anyone has forgotten, defecits arise when spending exceeds revenues. If spending goes up then taxes should go up. Taxes has become such a hot-button issue bo politican dares to even mention taxation.

Back in the Eisenhower Admin Federal Budgets were in the 300B range and deficits were in the $300M range. The tax rates ran into the 90% of taxible income. Skilled workers bought houses in the burbs, sent their kids to college and bought small luxuries like TV sets and power mowers. Mom stayed home and the bane of school administration was chewing gum in class. What's different now? Tax rates. No-one wants to pay taxes especialy those who can afford to pay more. They are not job creators, they are hoarders. Nothing trickles down from them but exculpatory propaganda. How much is enough? To a hoarder there is never "enough". We have all heard of people who hoard old cars, cats, knick-knacks. Another kind hoards money in numbered accounts and theirs is the same kind of obsession as the wierd lady down the street with blankets over the windows.

Don't get me wrong. Rich people deserve to live richly but they have to share the pain of supporting the institutions that keep it all running.

When I pay my taxes I get roads, schools, police and fire, avenues of complaint and redress, a system of responsive government etc. It's really a bargain. Without Government we get Somalia.

Reagan did us no favors when he announced "The Government does solve problems, Government IS the Problem." Irational resentment soared overnight

I'm a citizen and I vote. When I vote I don't vote for the guy with glib solutions and bumper stcker talkng points. I vote for the candidates I perceive to be practical problem solvers. If you don't like the Governent you got blame your vote not a boogeyman "Government".

A cartoon character said it best: "We have met the enemy and they is us."

MaxxLagg
07-27-2012, 11:35 AM
There's three pssible answe to the the American Community Syrvey.

One is to check into it bonefides add if satisfied fil out the information requested. Another is to check into it bonefides add if satisfied and decline for whet ever reason motivat you. Those two are adult rational and reasonable responses.

The third is to fly off into a "Government intrusion" rant mouthing phrases taken from nutcase radio shows. That solves nothing and exposes you as just another touchy screwball.

It was mentioned the survey is another attempt to excract more taxes from the citizen. What's wrong with that? Have you looked at the deficit? The National dept? The USA has but two income streams, taxes and fees. The so called entitelment income is dedicated to pay forward annuiteied and service and is nt to be lumped into the general fund. In case anyonehas forgotten defecits aries when spending exceeds revenues

First, you're assuming that I listen to talk radio and would be in any way influenced by their ideology. I don't, so therefore I'm not. The next assumption would be that since I don't wish my private life to be intruded upon by the government I must be a screwball. Again, not so.

Secondly, yes, I HAVE seen the deficit. I didn't cause it. Out of control spending has more to do with it than lack of revenue stream. I pay more than enough taxes. I have no problem paying said taxes for things that are need for the national defense and infrastructure that drives our economy and our way of life. I do have a problem supporting as many people as we do that contribute NOTHING to the pot. The government uses my tax dollars largely to pander to those that keep them in office. Taxing me more isn't going to fix our deficit, not if the root of the problem is still there.

Not everyone that opposes what the government is doing is a screwball. And before you start assuming that, because my ideology dovetails with what YOU consider "screwball" behavior know that I'm registered as non-partisan, i.e. Independent. Jefferson and Adams warned us about the party system. They were right.

Lew Hartswick
07-27-2012, 11:53 AM
If you don't like the Governent you got blame your vote not a boogeyman "Government".

A cartoon character said it best: "We have met the enemy and they is us."
Forest, Please most of us that are doing the complaining did NOT vote for the "government" we have now. So it WASN'T the "your vote" above that got it. In, my and a lot of the others opinion, it was the "non-tax-paying" residents of the country that voted in the current philosophy government.
There doesn't appear any way to overcome this effect either, hence the complaining.
...Lew...

gnm109
07-27-2012, 12:13 PM
We had one ages ago, wanted to know who lived there so i put Me, ower Gert and Graham White as the Old English Sheepdog is gray and white.

Still get junk mail addressed to Graham White....................................

Hmm, when I was attending UCLA many years ago, one of the fraternities enrolled their mascot, a collie. They entered him in all of the classes and even turned in exams on his behalf.

I understand that he ultimately received a Bachelor's degree in English, although I was told that, for obvious resons, he was unable to attend the graduation ceremonies. Apparently they mailed his diploma to the address of the frat house.


Forrest: I was with you up to where you said something about "responsive government".

;)

Catshooter
07-27-2012, 02:43 PM
Thanks for the link. Yes, I've read that. One thing that stands out from the article is this; “The loss of the American Community Survey will cause chaos and inefficiency in the operations of business and government in the U.S.,”

Chaos and inefficiency in the US government? I'm pretty sure that Chaos & Inefficiency are .gov's middle names. That's damn funny right there. Or would be if it wasn't coming out of our pockets.


Cat

michigan doug
07-27-2012, 05:49 PM
I'm self employed. I pay "both sides" of the social security/FICA at about 15%. I pay about 26% in federal, so that makes 41%. I pay 6% in sales tax (though I don't spend every penny I make), my property tax is a little over $2,000, so that's a nice chunk. Don't forget excise tax on gas, licenses, fees, etc etc etc.

So, as it stands, I give at least half of everything I make to the government. Isn't that enough? It seems like a lot to me. Why do they still have deficits? A significant part of the gov. budget is now interest on the stupidity of spending more than you make for decades. So I get nothing for that part, which is a significant part.

The foundational question is when will they start living within their means?

Finest regards,

doug

Weston Bye
07-27-2012, 08:43 PM
Doug,
I share your sentiments, but I question your numbers. I just looked at my tax returns and did some thumbnail calculations. For federal, I simply calculated what percentage of my gross income was paid for my tax bill - this included all the different taxes. Turned out to be a little over 10%. But then I estimated that I spent 20% of my income on sales taxable items and took 6% of that. I added what I paid in property taxes and state income taxes. All these were added together and then calculated as a percentage of my gross income - came out to almost 20%. Not half my income, but still too much.

One must be careful about just adding percentages. I think I get a better picture by using actual numbers.

By the way, I found the President's tax return on line. He paid about 20% just in federal taxes.

+ or - Zero
07-28-2012, 12:25 AM
...........
By the way, I found the President's tax return on line. He paid about 20% just in federal taxes.

I simply have to disagree with that. Actually the tax payer paid his 20% taxes --this is the fallacy of government workers paying tax, for they do not --the tax payer pays them.

Exactly as a private employer is who actually pays the employee's tax. You may not see it that way, but consider the wages you are paid, out of which you pay taxes, comes from your employer... so the tax burden you bear is simply a part of the cost of employing you --a cost the employer must consider.

It really does not matter who's pocket it comes out of, it matters who fills the pocket.

In both examples I have not addressed income from other sources, I only want to point out that taxes on earnings are actually paid by who ever you work for as part of your wages. You must be worth the total of the wages you are paid, which includes what you pay out as tax (and more for the employer to profit from hiring you), or else you are on some form of charity work --or work for the government... close to the same thing in many ways.

danlb
07-28-2012, 02:42 AM
came out to almost 20%. Not half my income, but still too much.

One must be careful about just adding percentages. I think I get a better picture by using actual numbers.

By the way, I found the President's tax return on line. He paid about 20% just in federal taxes.

yes, just working with percentages gives a misleading picture.


As an example, the majority of the president's income is not from wages (his presidential pay) but from long term investments. That would be profits from stocks and bonds, dividends, etc. Long term investment GAINS are taxed at a lower rate. Is it still a flat 15%? I have not looked at it recently.

The long term capital gains tax rate was supposed to encourage people to invest in investments that grow over time.

If the President paid 20%, he made about as much from his investments as he made in his day job. i think. :)

Dan

danlb
07-28-2012, 02:57 AM
So, as it stands, I give at least half of everything I make to the government. Isn't that enough? It seems like a lot to me. Why do they still have deficits? A significant part of the gov. budget is now interest on the stupidity of spending more than you make for decades. So I get nothing for that part, which is a significant part.

The foundational question is when will they start living within their means?



The problem is that you quoted 3 different governmental bodies (state, city and feds) , a medical insurance plan and a pension plan. Only the 26% that goes to the feds apply to the deficit, if I understand it properly.

On the other hand, if you are paying 26% to the feds you are making a good living. :)

But I agree, the feds, state and local need to learn to keep their spending within my income.

Dan

Weston Bye
07-28-2012, 08:24 AM
I used the President's tax return as an easily available example for comparison - not because of any political motive.
Well, perhaps only to discover and illustrate that they (the nebulous they) are already "soaking the rich" in a manner of speaking, when compared to my middle class income.

Zero, I see your point. As you say, the employer has to pay enough, first overcome the employee's tax burden, and then enough to ensure that the employee has the motivation to put in an honest day's work, or even bother to show up. regardless of whose pocket the money come from, the price of the employer's product or service must be able to cover the taxes and expenses. If there is little or no profit afterward, the employer may say "why bother." We all loose.

vpt
07-28-2012, 12:05 PM
What mail? Survey? I didn't get anything. Sorry, the mail system must not be working correctly. Better luck next time with mailing your survey to me. :D

MaxxLagg
07-28-2012, 12:19 PM
What mail? Survey? I didn't get anything. Sorry, the mail system must not be working correctly. Better luck next time with mailing your survey to me. :D

Well, that's going to be my first line of defense but reading on the net shows that they don't give up that easily. Especially read some of the comments down the page of people's experiences thus far.

http://www.truthistreason.net/how-to-legally-refuse-to-participate-in-the-census-survey

+ or - Zero
07-28-2012, 12:28 PM
What mail? Survey? I didn't get anything. Sorry, the mail system must not be working correctly. Better luck next time with mailing your survey to me. :D

It's my understanding, from what I've read, that they only send out about 25,000 of these each year. So the odds of many people being aware of it, and/or being able to find others who may also find it invasive, are rather small in any one year.

They have some rational for doing it this way. Having received one some years ago I think they may actually be doing a small sample at a time in order to make those that complain into a small and therefore ineffective minority... just my opine.

Black_Moons
07-28-2012, 12:46 PM
"Its all X's fault and if we just vote for Y, everything will be solved!"
Ok, So who is Y?
*Silence*
Oh thats right, Both voting options are X, Neither has any accountability and both have already taken HUGE bribes known as campaign funds before they even get into office and both result in the exact same thing.

And that is why voting does not matter and the government will not get any better.

Evan
07-28-2012, 01:07 PM
Why the hell does the government need to know how many flush toilets I have or what time I leave for work?

To directly address those questions, who supplies the water that flushes your toilets and who plans the highway system?

MaxxLagg
07-28-2012, 02:26 PM
To directly address those questions, who supplies the water that flushes your toilets and who plans the highway system?

I'm sure that the data necessary to calculate water usage in my town, which is supplied by it's own system of wells and pumping stations, is readily available from numerous sources. As to the highways, our roads are terrible here in Nebraska and I'm sure they're aware of it. If they want to know the volume then put a counter hose down like they always have.

If I could see a trend of responsible, effective usage of collected data such as what is DEMANDED, BY THREAT OF IMPRISONMENT, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But, they don't use it effectively nor responsibly. It's just another scheme to identify new sources of revenue, not better, more efficient means of spending what they get now. All the data they want is available by other means. That data which is not, is none of their business. For those of you that see no problem divulging personal data like this, ON DEMAND, then shoot me your mailing address. I'll send you my survey (interrogation).

lazlo
07-28-2012, 03:51 PM
Would you believe this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Community_Survey

According to that, the American Community Survey is part of the national census. What's the problem?


"1 About that time Caesar Augustus ordered a census to be taken throughout the Empire. 2 This was the first census when Quirinius was governor of Syria. 3 Everyone had to travel to his own ancestral hometown to be accounted for. 4 So Joseph went from the Galilean town of Nazareth up to Bethlehem in Judah, David's town, for the census. As a descendant of David, he had to go there. "


Why the hell does the government need to know how many flush toilets I have

It's one of several metrics for affluence/income level. They probably also asked if you have an Internet connection, and whether it's a high-speed connection.
Asking what time you leave for work gives them a metric of whether you're employed full-time or part-time.

michigan doug
07-28-2012, 04:07 PM
"The problem is that you quoted 3 different governmental bodies (state, city and feds) , a medical insurance plan and a pension plan. Only the 26% that goes to the feds apply to the deficit, if I understand it properly.

On the other hand, if you are paying 26% to the feds you are making a good living."

Yes, I admit I'm one of those evil guys that makes over 100K per annum.

Yes, there are various level of government that have their hand in my pocket.

Yes, technically, social security is a retirement "plan", a damn poor one. And, at the rate we are going, I am very unlikely to see a decent lifetime return on investment of more than a few percent, if that. More likely, they will just legislate me right out of my benefits, because I'm "rich" and don't "deserve" it. It's still a tax. In theory, all taxes paid result in getting some benefit, but that doesn't mean it isn't a tax.

And the city and the county and the state all have debt problems with interest attached to it. It's not just the feds.

I can assure you, they get half of everything I make before it's all over.

But when will they start spending less than they take in? When?

Finest regards,

doug

+ or - Zero
07-28-2012, 04:34 PM
According to that, the American Community Survey is part of the national census. What's the problem?


"1 About that time Caesar Augustus ordered a census to be taken throughout the Empire. 2 This was the first census when Quirinius was governor of Syria. 3 Everyone had to travel to his own ancestral hometown to be accounted for. 4 So Joseph went from the Galilean town of Nazareth up to Bethlehem in Judah, David's town, for the census. As a descendant of David, he had to go there. "



It's one of several metrics for affluence/income level. They probably also asked if you have an Internet connection, and whether it's a high-speed connection.
Asking what time you leave for work gives them a metric of whether you're employed full-time or part-time.

Apparently for you there is no problem with it.

Which shows that this is really a political issue, because a fair number of people do have a problem with it, and there is an active portion of the legislature arguing about it's value.

As all that information is easily available on the web, and in this thread to a lesser extent, I chose to answer with your own signature line:

"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."

It seems that if you felt the need to ask me that question, then you are not one who has learned by reading, or by observing, and I can't help you with the last option --that you must accomplish on your own.

;)

lazlo
07-28-2012, 04:52 PM
Apparently for you there is no problem with it.

All nations throughout history have always required their citizens to participate in a national census. Luke 2:1-4 being a prime example. As others have noted, there's no conspiracy -- the data is used to determine economic demographics for tax purposes, infrastructure spending, and the number of seats in the House.

As far as there being a fine for not responding to the census, what do you suppose the Romans would have done to you if you didn't show up for the census? :rolleyes:

More importantly, the United States Census is mandated by Article I, Section 2 of the United States Constitution. It's been in effect since 1790. Now, after 222 years, a specific demographic is claiming it's invading their privacy?



Which shows that this is really a political issue, because a fair number of people do have a problem with it, and there is an active portion of the legislature arguing about it's value.

I was trying to be polite, but since you're trying very hard to drag this into another political diatribe, let me allow the Wall Street Journal to explain:


The GOP's Census Takers
Republicans try to kill data collection that helps economic growth. (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6K1SyVACiXEJ:online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304070304577398212318299428.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

The House voted 232 to 190 to abolish the Census's American Community Survey, or ACS, which is the new version of the long-form questionnaire and is conducted annually. Republicans claim the long form—asking about everything from demographics to income to commuting times—is prying into private life and is unconstitutional.

In fact, the ACS provides some of the most accurate, objective and granular data about the economy and the American people, in something approaching real time. Ideally, Congress would use the information to make good decisions. Or economists and social scientists draw on the resource to offer better suggestions. Businesses also depend on the ACS's county-by-county statistics to inform investment and hiring decisions. As the great Peter Drucker had it, you can't manage or change what you don't measure.

The ACS costs about $2.4 billion a decade, which is trivial compared with the growth it helps drive. National statistics are in some sense public goods, which is why the government has other data-gathering shops like the Bureaus of Economic Analysis and Labor Statistics. The House action is like blaming the bathroom scale for your recent weight gain.

Since the political class is attempting to define the GOP as insane and redefine "moderation" as anything President Obama favors, Republicans do themselves no favors by targeting a useful government purpose.

Evan
07-28-2012, 04:54 PM
It's still a tax. In theory, all taxes paid result in getting some benefit, but that doesn't mean it isn't a tax.

It's pretty hard to detect the theoretical benefit when things like this take place. The National Reconnaissance Office recently discovered they had TWO left over spy satellites (probably KH11s) that are redundant and will never be used. They gave them to NASA who has no budget to use them for anything.

Try to hazard a guess how much they cost. Based on Hubble cost with a margin for military procurement screwage 3 to 4 billion each in current dollars is a likely estimate. At least one of them might be recycled for the dark matter telescope project which may save about 250 million. That's still billions of dollars spent years ago doing nothing at all for anybody except the military contractors that built it.


http://www.space.com/16000-spy-satellites-space-telescopes-nasa.html

+ or - Zero
07-28-2012, 05:24 PM
All nations throughout history have always required their citizens to participate in a national census. Luke 2:1-4 being a prime example. As others have noted, there's no conspiracy -- the data is used to determine economic demographics for tax purposes, infrastructure spending, and the number of seats in the House.

As far as there being a fine for not responding to the census, what do you suppose the Romans would have done to you if you didn't show up for the census? :rolleyes:

More importantly, the United States Census is mandated by Article I, Section 2 of the United States Constitution. It's been in effect since 1790. Now, after 222 years, a specific demographic is claiming it's invading their privacy?




I was trying to be polite, but since you're trying very hard to drag this into another political diatribe, let me allow the Wall Street Journal to explain:


The GOP's Census Takers
Republicans try to kill data collection that helps economic growth. (http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6K1SyVACiXEJ:online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304070304577398212318299428.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us)

The House voted 232 to 190 to abolish the Census's American Community Survey, or ACS, which is the new version of the long-form questionnaire and is conducted annually. Republicans claim the long form—asking about everything from demographics to income to commuting times—is prying into private life and is unconstitutional.

In fact, the ACS provides some of the most accurate, objective and granular data about the economy and the American people, in something approaching real time. Ideally, Congress would use the information to make good decisions. Or economists and social scientists draw on the resource to offer better suggestions. Businesses also depend on the ACS's county-by-county statistics to inform investment and hiring decisions. As the great Peter Drucker had it, you can't manage or change what you don't measure.

The ACS costs about $2.4 billion a decade, which is trivial compared with the growth it helps drive. National statistics are in some sense public goods, which is why the government has other data-gathering shops like the Bureaus of Economic Analysis and Labor Statistics. The House action is like blaming the bathroom scale for your recent weight gain.

Since the political class is attempting to define the GOP as insane and redefine "moderation" as anything President Obama favors, Republicans do themselves no favors by targeting a useful government purpose.

lazlo, you asked me a question. I tried to answer in a non partisan way (if also having a bit of fun with your sig) --telling you that it was something you had to discover for yourself. I did not tell you either what I though you would discover, nor what I thought you should discover. Now you are trying to convince me of some political position of your own. I'm not interested, OK?

lazlo
07-28-2012, 05:36 PM
I tried to answer in a non partisan way (if also having a bit of fun with your sig) --telling you that it was something you had to discover for yourself.

No, you implied I was ignorant for not having a problem with the national census that's required by the Constitution. As the Wall Street Journal eloquently explains, it's partisan bullsh!t, plain and simple.


"The House action is like blaming the bathroom scale for your recent weight gain."


That's classic in so many ways! :)

+ or - Zero
07-28-2012, 06:46 PM
No, you implied I was ignorant for not having a problem with the national census that's required by the Constitution. As the Wall Street Journal eloquently explains, it's partisan bullsh!t, plain and simple.


"The House action is like blaming the bathroom scale for your recent weight gain."


That's classic in so many ways! :)

The above is just wounded ego talking because I used your sig to have a bit of fun about this entire subject.

I told you I was not interested in what you perceive about politics, now I'll add; about me, or what you want to put into how you interpret what I have to say, or any other thing you think I may think, and don't try putting words in my mouth. --except I think you might have some nice machining tips.

I will not respond to you further about this.

I did comment that you did not seem to have a problem with the American Community Survey --because you obviously don't --a reiteration of a fact about yourself that you provided, that's all. Why would that make you so defensive?

Well don't bother to answer, the answer is clear enough as things stand. So I'll just unsubscribe from this thread and you may carry on as you see fit. I never was very interested in the subject anyway --been there, pissed on the fence a few times myself.

MaxxLagg
07-28-2012, 07:18 PM
More importantly, the United States Census is mandated by Article I, Section 2 of the United States Constitution. It's been in effect since 1790. Now, after 222 years, a specific demographic is claiming it's invading their privacy?

The Constitution mandates a HEADCOUNT only! For purposes of apportionment of House seats ONLY!

This is just data mining for political leverage and position.

Question 18a:

Because of a physical, mental, or emotional condition, does this person have a serious difficulty concentrating, remembering, or making decisions?

Is this going to determine how many House seats my state gets? I'd say it's not any business of theirs if I'm losing my marbles or not.

jnissen
07-28-2012, 07:26 PM
The Constitution mandates a HEADCOUNT only! For purposes of apportionment of House seats ONLY!

This is just data mining for political leverage and position.

Question 18a:

Because of a physical, mental, or emotional condition, does this person have a serious difficulty concentrating, remembering, or making decisions?

Is this going to determine how many House seats my state gets? I'd say it's not any business of theirs if I'm losing my marbles or not.



Sounds like a good excuse to fill in the number only and send it back to them. I did this with the form a while back. Never got a call back or anything.

lazlo
07-28-2012, 07:43 PM
The Constitution mandates a HEADCOUNT only! For purposes of apportionment of House seats ONLY!


"[The Census] shall be made ... in such Manner as [Congress] shall by Law direct."

Congress is authorized to ask questions in the census aside from the basic headcount by virtue of the Necessary and Proper Clause (http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html#C18).

The census questions haven't changed substantially in 100 years, aside from modernization.


Because of a physical, mental, or emotional condition, does this person have a serious difficulty concentrating, remembering, or making decisions?

They're asking if you have physically, mentally, or emotionally impaired dependents in your household. That also hasn't changed in 100 years.

The US Census bureau keeps the questionnaires from past census' here:

http://www.census.gov/dmd/www/content.htm

Here's the same question from the 2000 Census:
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u15/rtgeorge_album/2000Census.jpg


As point of interest, in the 1790 Census, failure to return or falsify information was punishable by a $20 fine, which was quite a lot in those days!

Dr Stan
07-28-2012, 08:03 PM
"There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."

lazlo,

Your sig file says it all regarding quite a few of the posts in this thread.

Stan

Weston Bye
07-28-2012, 08:11 PM
The Constitution mandates a HEADCOUNT only! For purposes of apportionment of House seats ONLY!

.................


Is this going to determine how many House seats my state gets? I'd say it's not any business of theirs if I'm losing my marbles or not.

Or maybe apportionment according to the number of flush toilets?

Timo
07-28-2012, 09:19 PM
I have a hard time understanding that attitude.
Everyone loves to complain about how the government spends their tax dollars.
The American Community Survey was setup to gather information that can be used to direct some of that money in more effective ways.

Your kidding of course.

loose nut
07-29-2012, 10:30 AM
If they put an explanation, with each question, as to why they want the info then maybe people wouldn't get so mad. There might be a very good reason for some of the questions. Then again it is a government form so maybe not.

flylo
07-29-2012, 10:33 AM
Tell them you have 100 flush toilets & send more surveys as TP is getting expensive!

vpt
07-29-2012, 12:53 PM
Any nice little towns in Canada just north of WI? How long does it take to get citizenship?

lazlo
07-29-2012, 01:04 PM
Any nice little towns in Canada just north of WI? How long does it take to get citizenship?

Won't work. Canada has a national census too. In fact, they have the same census questions:

http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/NHS-ENM/ref/Questionnaires/2011NHS-ENM-eng.cfm#Q7
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u15/rtgeorge_album/CanadianCensus.jpg

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u15/rtgeorge_album/CanadianCensus2.jpg


I think you're looking for a third-world country :)

vpt
07-29-2012, 01:17 PM
I thought Canada is a third world country?

Mcgyver
07-29-2012, 02:19 PM
I thought Canada is a third world country?

Don't get out much do you? :D If you come up to find a small town, make sure it has a toilet

you guys are in a lather about nothing; i don't see it stretch as to why the government would be better able to allocate and serve with better knowledge. Furthermore, a lot of the function is to make the data available to industry; understanding the market makes for a more efficient commercial process; what goods and services are brought to market etc. Markets end up better served

As a side note, my bride after raising 4 kids, wanted to return to work. She's educated and has experience but the challenge from an almost 20 year hiatus is no current reference and work experience. So she took a couple of really crappy jobs, mostly temp, got lots of kudos' and parlayed that into new job and career. Jobs like marking standardized school tests (gag, kids really are stupid these days) etc. One was going around to all the households that didn't return the survey, and they'd have to go back over and over. Fortunately she was assigned what's overall a fairly nice section of town. Nevertheless, I'd hear about all the characters and dumps she'd have to go to....I'd just fill it in properly and return the survey.... if for no other reason than you do not want to be lumped into the those who don't return the survey" cast of characters I'd hear about :D

loose nut
07-29-2012, 03:39 PM
I thought Canada is a third world country?

Heck no. We got this here e-lec-tri-city stuff and indoor plumbing too.

Mike Nash
07-29-2012, 04:42 PM
Flush Toilet:

http://www.banterist.com/archivefiles/images/squat-toilet.jpg

Read more here: http://www.banterist.com/archivefiles/000348.html (http://www.banterist.com/archivefiles/000348.html)

Here in the US all the toilets I've ever seen STAND PROUD. I have no flush toilets in my house.

On an aside: Today I put together a roll around kitchen island my wife bought that was made in China. While the material quality was iffy and the towel bar/handle was too long (and had the wrong ID on it), the instructions were perfect - best I have seen in decades. The assembly outside of the too long chromed tube (machining content) was easy even allowing for mis-drilled holes on the drop leaf hinges. The chrome plated tube was impressively difficult to cut. I was impressed with the experience overall though if I had never had so many bad experiences with "assembly required" I may have thought less of it. Did I mention the assembly instructions were fabulous?

BTW - I can't post links in Firefox 1.5 because all the tools are missing. (But I LIKE Firefox 1.5!)
This is my 100th post.
The machines used were a hacksaw and a dremel. I have plenty of others but ...

Dr Stan
07-29-2012, 06:18 PM
Flush Toilet:

http://www.banterist.com/archivefiles/images/squat-toilet.jpg


Those of us who were stationed and/or did duty any where in the Western Pacific are quite familiar with this design. :p