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Peter N
09-27-2012, 06:20 PM
Anyone tried this/using this?
It's pretty new I think, first release was earlier this month.

http://zero-divide.net/index.php?page=FrontPage

Opinions?

John Stevenson
09-27-2012, 06:33 PM
Looks very interesting Peter.
I tried G Wizard but could never get it to run and the installation of Adobe air generally knackered half the computer up.
I like the idea of stand alone programs, ALL of my CNC machines are never connected to a network.

Will download it and give it a whirl, thanks for the heads up.

willmac
09-27-2012, 06:49 PM
Anyone else having problems with the installer for FSWizard - it fails with a message about corrupted files and/or viruses for me.

Peter N
09-27-2012, 06:51 PM
Anyone else having problems with the installer for FSWizard - it fails with a message about corrupted files and/or viruses for me.

Yeah, did that to me until I actually read the warning message:)
- click 'Yes' and it will install just fine.

oldtiffie
09-27-2012, 07:27 PM
The initial (limited but paid for) version worked all be it a bit "clunkily" but installing the upgrade was a disaster.

I removed it from my computer and I just ignore any messages about it.

I find that I can get by quite well without it as I just get and use my machine settings as I always have - Machinery's Hand Book, various other references and plain old "experience" and "feel" - and common sense.

My shop is small as are my machines etc. and I just "potter around" to get what I want as I have plenty of time.

"Tear-ar$ing" and "production" (and its derivatives) are neither understood nor spoken here.

I dare-say the "Wizard" will be of reall and continuing use to any/those that need and use it.

I do like what I see on the FS-Wizard web page as it really does seem address a real need for a lot of people here.

But having said that, I will down-load it if I like some of the reviews of/for it from people here.

Mcgyver
09-27-2012, 08:07 PM
......so........Gee Whiz, its a turd?

:D

oldtiffie
09-27-2012, 09:40 PM
I doubt it as I hold the author/developer of it in high regard.

Perhaps its me or my machine or an Adobe application. But given that I and my computer and Adobe just do not "get on/along" - at all. It trashed my machine twice but the biggest problem was getting rid of all traces of Adabe - it seemed to be in all sorts of nooks and crannies.

Just to be safe and to see that Adobe did not survive a re-format of my disk, I trashed (under the hydraulic press) and "binned" the disc and started with a new one - no problems since with Adobe.

I had similar problems with Symantec - same solutions too!!



So once out its staying out and as G-Wizard required Abobe - G-Wizard is staying out as well.

Zero_Divide
10-04-2012, 04:38 PM
Hello, guys.
I am the author of FSWizard software.

So anyone tried it yet and has any complaints/suggestions?
I have lots of experience milling stuff and could help should qestions arise

BigJohnT
10-04-2012, 04:52 PM
Is there a version that will run on Ubuntu 10.04 without a network connection?

John

Dave S.
10-04-2012, 05:01 PM
I tried it online. The first post said like Gwizard but free. I have to disagree with that. Your program only does feed and speed and I am not fond of the screen set.
Gwizard does fedds and speed but also has a geometry section, a threads section, a calculator and quick reference. You can also set up several machines.

Zero_Divide
10-04-2012, 05:02 PM
BigJohnT,

Nope. Online or Windows-only right now.
Your control runs Linux?

Dave S,

I dont like when people compare my software to G-Wizard. Because i am pretty sure the way tool models are built are very different.
With FSWizard you can calculate VERY accurate speeds/feeds pretty much for any tool you want.
Even T-slot cutters, High-Feed Mills, i've even seen someone using it to calculate a boring bar, even though its not yet in the Tool List

Online version was mainly meant as a one place where all calculations are stored. And can be accessed from anywhere.
Standalone does not need internet and is for those who want faster response.

Did you try it?
Might like it more. Especially in the future as i have lots of stuff in the pipeline.

BigJohnT
10-04-2012, 05:24 PM
BigJohnT,

Nope. Online or Windows-only right now.
Your control runs Linux?

Yep, mine and thousands like me that run LinuxCNC...

John

Zero_Divide
10-04-2012, 05:32 PM
The guy who created LinuxCNC asked me if i could share the code with him so he could use it for his free control software.
At some point i wil do it. Maybe then he can convert it to linux code as i have no clue about programming for that platform.

BigJohnT
10-04-2012, 06:12 PM
Python or C and GTk seems to work everywhere. What did you program it in?

The guts is just formulas so that is universal.

I actually started one that is embedded in LinuxCNC but migrated off to making a whole new GUI for LinuxCNC with it built in.

John

BigJohnT
10-04-2012, 06:33 PM
The guy who created LinuxCNC asked me if i could share the code with him so he could use it for his free control software.

The NIST asked you to do that? That's wild!

LinuxCNC History (http://linuxcnc.org/docs/html/common/emc-history.html)

John

Zero_Divide
10-04-2012, 07:08 PM
Wow.
Looks like I have embarrassed my self.
Someone contacted me and sad that he d like to port it to linuxcnc.
So I just assumed he was the guy who runs the show.
Now I realize that would amount to B.Gates calling a school student and asking for help with IE6
Anyway, I have used PHP/ajax for online version and vs.NET for standalone.

BigJohnT
10-04-2012, 07:41 PM
There is a lot of folks that work at keeping LinuxCNC cutting edge... yep the old assume gotcha.

I've dabbled in PHP a short bit and never have hear of vs.NET although I've heard of .NET. Like I said the formulas are the main thing. How do your formulas differ from all the rest?

John

loose nut
10-04-2012, 08:03 PM
I have a problem.

The display has some the data boxes overlapping each other or the ends are cut off.

Zero_Divide
10-04-2012, 08:20 PM
Don't know about others but my logic gets basic (standard)chipload value for each material from db.
It then builds ideal tool with given diameter. Then checks how that tool differs from what the user is typing in. Accounts for shank length, shank dia, helix, lead angle, and suggests default radial and axial engagement based on those factors. This way if tool length is longer than ideal, it tries to resize recommended doc. And if doc is lower, it tries to increase feedrate. When I first started I thought that deflection snaps end mills. Turns out its only true for longer cutters. For short ones main value is torque.k So I had to rethink the way feedrate compensates for different length and body diameter.
And Sfm is combined of material specific value and added factors like coating and tool material. I may have invented wheel there but that's how I do it.

Zero_Divide
10-04-2012, 08:25 PM
I have a problem.

The display has some the data boxes overlapping each other or the ends are cut off.

Can you post a screenshot of it?
Are you using large fonts on your windows?
Can you go to compatability settings and check font scaling for large dpi screen setting?

loose nut
10-04-2012, 08:51 PM
I will try tomorrow night.

Zero_Divide
10-05-2012, 09:03 AM
Thank you.
Just post a screenshot. I will fix it within a day or two

loose nut
10-06-2012, 02:47 PM
Here is my screen print with the problem.

http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q153/loosenut_bucket/fsscreen.jpg

As you can see some of the input blocks overlap some of the other wording, I have tried viewing with different resolution but it comes out the same??

Running Windows 7

Peter N
10-06-2012, 03:23 PM
Maybe a Windows 7 bug perhaps, I'm still running XP Pro and it comes up fine on mine.

http://www.btinternet.com/~p.neill/FSWizSS.jpg

John Stevenson
10-06-2012, 04:40 PM
don't know ?
I'm running W7 and it installed and runs fine first time.

http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/fswizard.jpg

BigJohnT
10-06-2012, 04:46 PM
Don't know about others but my logic gets basic (standard)chipload value for each material from db.
It then builds ideal tool with given diameter. Then checks how that tool differs from what the user is typing in. Accounts for shank length, shank dia, helix, lead angle, and suggests default radial and axial engagement based on those factors. This way if tool length is longer than ideal, it tries to resize recommended doc. And if doc is lower, it tries to increase feedrate. When I first started I thought that deflection snaps end mills. Turns out its only true for longer cutters. For short ones main value is torque.k So I had to rethink the way feedrate compensates for different length and body diameter.
And Sfm is combined of material specific value and added factors like coating and tool material. I may have invented wheel there but that's how I do it.

Sounds like you have gone above and beyond the basic formulas for feed and speed calculations. Did you make any provisions for machine capabilities?

I too noticed some weirdness on text box sizing on this Win XP machine.

I'd love to port this to python with a Gtk GUI so it is truly portable.

John

Evan
10-06-2012, 05:01 PM
That is a font scaling issue. It can happen if you have selected anything other than the default font or font sizes. More important, it's also up to the programmer how fonts are handled in the controls. The programmer can override the Windows setting and ensure that the fonts are always correctly scaled to the interface.

Looks fine on my machine but I have my fonts scaled down, not up. Interesting program. The values for torque are especially interesting. From where is that information derived?

BigJohnT
10-06-2012, 05:21 PM
No font scaling on this machine.

Zero_Divide
10-06-2012, 05:51 PM
That is a font scaling issue. It can happen if you have selected anything other than the default font or font sizes. More important, it's also up to the programmer how fonts are handled in the controls. The programmer can override the Windows setting and ensure that the fonts are always correctly scaled to the interface.

Looks fine on my machine but I have my fonts scaled down, not up. Interesting program. The values for torque are especially interesting. From where is that information derived?
I know what the problem is. Font scaling is mostly the culprit. Will fix it asap and let you know when its available. The torque values are calculated from power constants that are available for many materials.
Max torque and deflection are found experimentaly by me.

Black Forest
10-06-2012, 06:02 PM
Is it possible to use FSWizard to determine speeds and feeds for a face mill or a saw?

Evan
10-06-2012, 07:25 PM
Torque values are not trivial to calculate. It isn't just a matter of the area of the material but also the distribution of the material in that area. That will require calculating an integral taking into account the distance to the furthest fibre from the normal axis. That will vary depending on such factors as the number of flutes and how deep they are ground so I can't see it being accurate for all cutters. It is also a measure of bending strength around the axis along the length. Even the helix value matters. It must be regarded as a very approximate number. I presume you have allowed a sufficient safety margin?

One reason that torque matters is not often considered. As the cutter unwinds under torque it grows longer. That can make quite a difference to how deep it cuts.

philbur
10-06-2012, 08:49 PM
Seems calculating torque is not that difficult:

http://dynospindles.com/vault/technical/Book-of-Spindles-Part-2.pdf

For example page 70. You shouldn't overthink these things.

Phil:)

Zero_Divide
10-06-2012, 09:03 PM
Is it possible to use FSWizard to determine speeds and feeds for a face mill or a saw?
Sure i do it all the time.

Thing to remember for those 2 tool types (and pretty much all others) is to specify correct length and shank diameter!!

If you do that it should correctly reduce recommended depth/with of cut and feedrate.

Zero_Divide
10-06-2012, 09:55 PM
Seems calculating torque is not that difficult:

http://dynospindles.com/vault/technical/Book-of-Spindles-Part-2.pdf

For example page 70. You shouldn't overthink these things.

Phil:)
Thats almost exactly what i am doing!
Damn, i wish i came across this book BEFORE.
All information in one place.

Zero_Divide
10-06-2012, 11:36 PM
Anyway i just whipped up another update:
New version 0.013 is available for download. It is sporting new updated material database

Also Font Scaling is now fixed: this should fix all problems with text boxes crawling all over each other

Also all the data you typed in is saved on exit and retrieved back when application is opened again (was requested).

Also it does not need .NET framework 4.0 anymore: it should work with .NET v2.0

You can get it here http://zero-divide.net/index.php?page=FSWizard_SA

Evan
10-07-2012, 12:08 AM
Seems calculating torque is not that difficult:

That document gives no information on calculating the safe torque values for milling cutters. Page 70 gives how to use the pre calculated tables to determine required motor torque which most definitely is not the same thing. The value in question in FSWizard is labelled "Safe torque" which I take to mean the safe amount of torque that may be applied to the cutter, not the drive motor torque required to do the job. Those two values are worlds apart. The given value in FSWizard is to two decimal places. That implies a high degree of accuracy.

My question still stands.

Zero_Divide
10-07-2012, 12:55 AM
That document gives no information on calculating the safe torque values for milling cutters. Page 70 gives how to use the pre calculated tables to determine required motor torque which most definitely is not the same thing. The value in question in FSWizard is labelled "Safe torque" which I take to mean the safe amount of torque that may be applied to the cutter, not the drive motor torque required to do the job. Those two values are worlds apart. The given value in FSWizard is to two decimal places. That implies a high degree of accuracy.

My question still stands.
Sorry for late response.
Where it says Safe Torque should actually say Maximum torque the cutter will PROBABLY take.
I meant to change the wording and totally got sidetracked.
Max Torque for cutter is calculated using a well known torsion formulae. it includes a standard 0.58 safety factor.
There is also 0.5 harmonic factor for that value.
Why 0.5? because for a 2 flute end mill that is making a full slot, torque on the shank goes from zero to some value. And the value that the calculator is showing is an AVERAGE.
So when you see 50 in-lb calculated torque, it means that for 2 flute cutters real torque spikes up to 100!!

Generally it is safe to be within 80% of max torque.
That considering your machine is rigid enough.

Evan
10-07-2012, 05:19 AM
That is what I thought and is good of you to post. That being the case it makes no sense to post a value to 2 decimals of precision. It's misleading at the least even though very few people have any idea how much torque is being applied to the cutter. Even rounding off to the next lower inch pound is far more precise than the approximation.

It would probably be better to calculate how close the given cutter parameters are approaching the maximum safe torque and forget about providing the approximation value. Nobody can measure it anyway. Just say the calculated operating torque is xx% of the safe maximum. If somebody wants to do the math they can figure out what the implied safe maximum is. What most people really care about is not breaking the tool.

philbur
10-07-2012, 05:33 AM
It seems to me that the safe, tool torque value is already implicit within a manufacturers' recommendations regarding speed and feed values for the given material machineability. Exceed these values at your peril. Any calculation of safe torque would also need to take into account the additive effects of bending and tension/compression stresses.

Phil:)

Evan
10-07-2012, 05:48 AM
I don't think so. Speeds in particular relate to heat buildup on the edge with resulting loss of the edge when exceeded. Feeds are about exceeding the available space for chips. Speeds and feeds matter for all materials, even ones that impose very low torque loads.


Any calculation of safe torque would also need to take into account the additive effects of bending and tension/compression stresses.

That I agree with as I stated it earlier.

philbur
10-07-2012, 05:56 AM
So you are saying that even if I stick with the manufacturers recommendations I may still exceed the safe torque value for the tool?

Phil:)


I don't think so. Speeds in particular relate to heat buildup on the edge with resulting loss of the edge when exceeded. Feeds are about exceeding the available space for chips. Speeds and feeds matter for all materials, even ones that impose very low torque loads.

John Stevenson
10-07-2012, 06:58 AM
Could we get back to what we would like to see in the program.
Whilst the torque issue is interesting to some AFAIK it's not covered in MH or similar so why should it take priority here ?

John Stevenson
10-07-2012, 07:12 AM
One query with the program.

You can specify the tool in imperial or mm, you can specify the result in imperial or mm but the cutting data is always in imperial units.

Probably a bit short sighted given the US is about the last country to be imperial based.

Zero_Divide
10-07-2012, 01:14 PM
So you are saying that even if I stick with the manufacturers recommendations I may still exceed the safe torque value for the tool?

Phil:)

during all my testing i have maybe seen a couple of brand-name tools that seemed to come close to the Maximum Torque.
Normally even for heavy roughing when you punch in manufacturer-recommended settings it poops out operational torque of op to 80% of maximum.

Evan,
i decided to calculate Torque to within 2 decimals because mainly because of small diameter drilling.
Like in here (http://zero-divide.net/index.php?page=fswizard&shell_id=199&load_tool_id=37634) it gives Torque of 0.98 in-lb and a breaking torque of 2.78. With those small values 2 decimals are important.
IE: drills can handle whatever feedrate you throw at them untill they reach breaking torque. So sometimes when i need to make couple of thousands of holes i punch in the data and dial feed overide(on the calculator, not the machine) until it comes close to maximum value. always works for me. Havent broken a drill in ages. main thing is correct peck.

Good idea about limiting allowed torque/deflection with a percentage of a maximum. I thought of it before but wasn't sure anybody actually needed it.

John Stevenson,
Nice catch, i will work on it next.
That will be too easy though and i will do it together with something bigger. Might rewrite the whole thing at that point anyway.

Evan
10-07-2012, 02:19 PM
So you are saying that even if I stick with the manufacturers recommendations I may still exceed the safe torque value for the tool?

Maybe. They cannot anticipate all possible machining situations or materials with just one number.

loose nut
10-07-2012, 07:18 PM
new version, problem solved. thanks.

philbur
10-08-2012, 08:08 AM
Is that the royal we John, or were you elected.:D

Whose priority.:p

The program includes a calculation of tool torque so I guess discussing it is on topic. I agree that it is of little use, but then so are 95% of the posts on most forums.:eek:

Phil:)



Could we get back to what we would like to see in the program.
Whilst the torque issue is interesting to some AFAIK it's not covered in MH or similar so why should it take priority here ?

John Stevenson
10-08-2012, 08:35 AM
Is that the royal we John, or were you elected.:D



Phil:)

Of course it is, that's why it's SIR John :p :o

John Stevenson
10-08-2012, 08:42 AM
Hey lads,
Don't piss this guy off, he's writing something we can all use, so far everyone has managed to install it unlike that adobe sht that's out there.
So far it's free but I wouldn't mind if it became chargeable for a stand alone product that doesn't need internet connection.

This cloud based stuff is OK but we often get clear sky's here :rolleyes:

Threads next ?

lazlo
10-08-2012, 11:54 AM
Hey lads,
Don't piss this guy off, he's writing something we can all use, so far everyone has managed to install it unlike that adobe sht that's out there.

Seriously!


Threads next ?

As long as he starts with Imperial/British threads first! :D

loose nut
10-08-2012, 02:02 PM
the US is about the last country to be imperial based.

Who says? Lots of people in Metric countries still bucking the system.:cool:

lazlo
10-08-2012, 02:37 PM
Who says? Lots of people in Metric countries still bucking the system.:cool:

Says the Canadian - LOL! :)

I was reading the latest issue of MEW last night and, as usual, the projects are a wonderful mixture of Metric materials with Imperial dimensions, holes, threads. The best of both worlds! :)

Zero_Divide
10-08-2012, 03:38 PM
Seriously!



As long as he starts with Imperial/British threads first! :D

LOL.
Would you like to have something like this
http://zero-divide.net/index.php?page=Reference
or rather some sort of drop-down layout where you select thread size, then pitch then tolerance
And as result it gives you wire measurement, drill size(for internal), clearance, and what not?

For me i am not doing any hi-precession work so i like simple chart better. But again everyone is different.

philbur
10-08-2012, 05:30 PM
Never seen one number. Speed, feed, DOC, WOC and a material machinability factor pretty much covers it for all the tool manufacturers I've looked at. I thought these were the numbers a person used as an upper limit in order to avoid breaking a cutter.

Phil:)


Maybe. They cannot anticipate all possible machining situations or materials with just one number.

John Stevenson
10-08-2012, 06:35 PM
LOL.
Would you like to have something like this
http://zero-divide.net/index.php?page=Reference
or rather some sort of drop-down layout where you select thread size, then pitch then tolerance
And as result it gives you wire measurement, drill size(for internal), clearance, and what not?

For me i am not doing any hi-precession work so i like simple chart better. But again everyone is different.

Just my take.
Something more on a drop down fill in the blanks type of chart, a lot like your speeds and feeds chart.

Simple chartrs are Ok but won't deal with specials, I'm talking metric here but the same applies in imperial.
Say 24mm thread which is 3.5 pitch from memory but there are plenty more pitches in that diameter. 1.0, 1.5. 2.o etc

same applies to imperial i have plenty of 3/4" x 20, 3/4" x 26, 3/4" x 32 etc

Using a drop down you can enter diameter and pitch and the chart could give you best wire sizes and measurement across wires, tapping size etc

There are charts for these but you have to jump thru hoops for specials. things like Acme are rarely covered and Trapezoid is a closed shop.

[ Trapezoid for the unwashed is the metric equivalent of Acme but 30 degrees angle instead of 29 degree. ]

I don't know what else in in G Wizard as I never managed to get it installed on my machine, in fact the Adobe crap wrecked it and I had to do a fresh install

djc
10-10-2012, 04:30 PM
Can I add a second vote for the style Sir john suggests above.

Something to bear in mind with respect to the 'chart-based' data such as that in your link is that it is relvant/true for only one specific percentage enagement.

If you read the Model Engineer's Handbook by Tubal Cain, there is considerable discussion on tapping drill sizes and percentage engagement. His general thesis is that a lot of the time tapping drill sizes given in tables are too small and can lead to breakages. Go up in size, and yes it does reduce the theoretical strength but often that does not matter.

A calculation from first principles approach would allow you to select percentage engagement required if you wanted to (or use a default number if you did not). It could also be used for form taps. A corollary is that you could enter the drill size(s) you actually have to hand and see how suitable they are.

BigJohnT
10-10-2012, 04:39 PM
A calculation from first principles approach would allow you to select percentage engagement required if you wanted to (or use a default number if you did not). It could also be used for form taps. A corollary is that you could enter the drill size(s) you actually have to hand and see how suitable they are.

That and how much torque it will take would make a nifty tap drill selector. I might take a stab at that in Python.

John

Zero_Divide
10-10-2012, 04:58 PM
Can I add a second vote for the style Sir john suggests above.

Something to bear in mind with respect to the 'chart-based' data such as that in your link is that it is relvant/true for only one specific percentage enagement.

If you read the Model Engineer's Handbook by Tubal Cain, there is considerable discussion on tapping drill sizes and percentage engagement. His general thesis is that a lot of the time tapping drill sizes given in tables are too small and can lead to breakages. Go up in size, and yes it does reduce the theoretical strength but often that does not matter.

A calculation from first principles approach would allow you to select percentage engagement required if you wanted to (or use a default number if you did not). It could also be used for form taps. A corollary is that you could enter the drill size(s) you actually have to hand and see how suitable they are.

Huh!
That is a very good idea. Combine that with material data for recommended engagement IE: 90% aliuminum, 75% for steels.

And that would be really nifty feature.
Who knows might even try to sell it if i get the time to actually implement it. On the other hand i 'd feel bad making money on someone elses idea....

On a side note the still free version with some of Sihr Johns suggestions is right around the corner.

Should i create an "about" dialogue with names of all the people who helped me? and what they suggested???...

John Stevenson
10-10-2012, 05:32 PM
Huh!
That is a very good idea. Combine that with material data for recommended engagement IE: 90% aliuminum, 75% for steels.

And that would be really nifty feature.
Who knows might even try to sell it if i get the time to actually implement it. On the other hand i 'd feel bad making money on someone elses idea....



Go for it, you are doing the work, you deserve to get paid.

Many people have ideas but either can't be bothered or lack the skills to do it. If you have the skills then go for it.

Evan
10-10-2012, 07:22 PM
Taps are difficult to break by over torquing, even the small ones. That is almost never the reason they break. Even slight misalignment with the hole or the slightest amount of bending force will snap even large taps easily. The same applies to a lesser degree to HSS drill bits although carbide bits are even more sensitive than taps.

Zero_Divide
10-12-2012, 02:02 PM
Right now i am working on user tool database
Could you guys look at http://zero-divide.net/index.php?page=fswizard the "myCut DB Tool Entry" section
and advise me if the data fields i have in there are enough to store additional information that may be required for later use. Should i maybe include "Supplier" field where users can save PO and supplier name so they can store order info as well? Or maybe some fields are irrelevant?

Should i add learning ability where FSWiz could advise Speed/Feed overrides based on previously saved tools?

Zero_Divide
10-15-2012, 05:23 PM
I have just released a new version.
Besides new features i have fixed all known bugs.

download page is here http://zero-divide.net/index.php?page=FSWizard_SA (http://zero-divide.net/index.php?page=FSWizard_SA)

DICKEYBIRD
10-15-2012, 06:09 PM
My oh my, what a wonderful contribution you have made kind sir. Thank you very much for your generosity!:D

Zero_Divide
10-15-2012, 07:40 PM
Thank you i feel very flattered by your recognition.
Keep the good vibes coming.
:D

Evan
10-16-2012, 01:58 AM
That looks very nice. I did some sanity checks on metric vs SAE and I see no problems with the conversions. About the only niggle I can find are the usual round off errors inherent in converting decimal>binary>decimal. In some cases a nice round 30.0000 turns into 29.9999. That isn't going to affect accuracy. It is strictly an appearance issue. The way I usually deal with that is to add a very small value to the final calculated amount before truncating the value for display, something like 0.0000001. To truncate, convert to a string, chop it off and convert back to a numeric. That cleans up round off errors.

[edit] Round off errors can kick your butt sometimes. Try this to see what I mean, it doesn't matter what language is used.

pseudo code: for I = 0 to 1 step .001; x=x+1; next I

Want to guess what x will be?

Zero_Divide
10-16-2012, 02:22 AM
That looks very nice. I did some sanity checks on metric vs SAE and I see no problems with the conversions. About the only niggle I can find are the usual round off errors inherent in converting decimal>binary>decimal. In some cases a nice round 30.0000 turns into 29.9999. That isn't going to affect accuracy. It is strictly an appearance issue. The way I usually deal with that is to add a very small value to the final calculated amount before truncating the value for display, something like 0.0000001. To truncate, convert to a string, chop it off and convert back to a numeric. That cleans up round off errors.

[edit] Round off errors can kick your butt sometimes. Try this to see what I mean, it doesn't matter what language is used.

pseudo code: for I = 0 to 1 step .001; x=x+1; next I

Want to guess what x will be?

I actually got interested..
If "I" is declared as integer, will it throw the error because you are trying to add a decimal to it?
Turns out NOT (at least in free basic)

Dim i as integer
dim x as integer
For I = 0 to 1 step .001
x=x+1
print X
next I


Happens to be endless loop in this case ;)
But in FSWiz i fight them with limit on number of iterations.
IE: Some when Max HP Limit is triggered, it ends up being a little below maximum because of rounding errors and approximations i have here and there.

Anyway i'll try to cheat that cuz 30.000mm = 1,1811023622047244094488188976378" and there is no way i am gonna store that number anywhere

BTW have anything to say about overall interface?
Feel like adding more features but I am running out of the room.

Jaakko Fagerlund
10-16-2012, 04:53 AM
pseudo code: for I = 0 to 1 step .001; x=x+1; next I

Want to guess what x will be?
1001, assuming X starts from zero.

Black Forest
10-16-2012, 01:12 PM
I received my Machinists Calc Pro yesterday. It does not do what I want it to for my needs.

So now it is between FSWizard and G-Wizard.

How come if I put the same tool and cut info into the two programs they give different results for RPM's and feeds?

Of course I would like to use FSWizard(it is free!) but it seems that G-Wizard is giving better results according to my tools!

Somebody else try the two with the same info and let me know what you get back for results. Please. My trial is almost over on G-wizard and before I subscribe maybe someone can clear this up.

Danke!

Zero_Divide
10-16-2012, 01:21 PM
There was a humiliating screwup on my side yesterday.
I accidentally published the wrong .exe setup file.
So if anyone has downloaded it any time between yesterday and today. They are strongly encouraged to re-download it again.

Black forest,
Try to install the new file, you may like it much more.

Black Forest
10-16-2012, 02:16 PM
There was a humiliating screwup on my side yesterday.
I accidentally published the wrong .exe setup file.
So if anyone has downloaded it any time between yesterday and today. They are strongly encouraged to re-download it again.

Black forest,
Try to install the new file, you may like it much more.

OK, Where is the correct download link????

Zero_Divide
10-16-2012, 02:19 PM
OK, Where is the correct download link????
Same link, actually, i just replaced the file.

http://zero-divide.net/index.php?page=FSWizard_SA&shell_id=209&download_article_file=4258

DICKEYBIRD
10-16-2012, 02:21 PM
So if I used your uninstaller, downloaded the .exe today and installed it I should be good to go, yes?

2nd question: Is there a way of "fudging" the program to get semi-close feed/speeds for lathes?

Zero_Divide
10-16-2012, 02:30 PM
So if I used your uninstaller, downloaded the .exe today and installed it I should be good to go, yes?

2nd question: Is there a way of "fudging" the program to get semi-close feed/speeds for lathes?

Yeah if you see HELP baloons all over the place in that app then its a new version.

2)There is a way: You need to open a eldger_main.xml and create another tool type in that file. but its very not likely to give you good results.
Just because the program itself is NOT made to deal with turning YET.

Turning is somwhere in the pipline. For now i focused on milling only just because this is what i do for living.

Black Forest
10-16-2012, 02:35 PM
Yeah if you see HELP baloons all over the place in that app then its a new version.

2)There is a way: You need to open a eldger_main.xml and create another tool type in that file. but its very not likely to give you good results.
Just because the program itself is NOT made to deal with turning YET.

Turning is somwhere in the pipline. For now i focused on milling only just because this is what i do for living.

I don't get any help baloons! Is this still version 014? I uninstalled from the windows control panel. Should I use your uninstaller? If so where is it located?

Danke!!!!

DICKEYBIRD
10-16-2012, 02:40 PM
Hey B/F, mouse over the word "Lead Angle" & see if a help box pops up...does on mine now.:) They're not on all items though.

Zero_Divide
10-16-2012, 02:41 PM
No, just download from the link i gave in previous post and install.
Uninstall from Windows menu is good enough.

Black Forest
10-16-2012, 02:44 PM
NO baloons over Lead Angle. I want baloons!!!!! No baloons when I mouse over anything.

Evan
10-16-2012, 02:49 PM
1001, assuming X starts from zero.

Check the value of I at 1000 iterations. It will be .9999999999~. You can do that simply by adding .001 to X each time. The problem is that whether or not a rational number has a terminating expansion depends on the base in which it is expressed. Many terminating numbers in base 10 do not terminate in base 2 (and vice-versa). That produces unavoidable roundoff errors. Starting at zero and adding .001 1000 times should produce the limit value of 1. It doesn't.

The interface is just fine. Simple is good. I didn't try the installer. Given a choice I always use the portable version.

Black Forest
10-16-2012, 02:52 PM
OK, I have baloons!!! I was mousing over the input field not the words "lead angle"

I still get significantly different results between the two programs.

I am using indexable end mill to compute the speeds and feeds for a saw. I have a 100mm diameter saw with carbide inserts. The saw is 7mm wide with ten inserts. I am making a 15mm deep slot in low carbon steel.

Evan
10-16-2012, 02:54 PM
NO baloons over Lead Angle. I want baloons!!!!! No baloons when I mouse over anything.

Those are called "tooltips". They can be handy but only if the option is given to turn them off. You only need them once or twice, slow learners maybe three times. http://ixian.ca/pics9/biggrin.gif

Black Forest
10-16-2012, 02:58 PM
So I will need them at least 10 or more times!!!

Zero_Divide
10-16-2012, 03:36 PM
Those are called "tooltips". They can be handy but only if the option is given to turn them off. You only need them once or twice, slow learners maybe three times. http://ixian.ca/pics9/biggrin.gif

LoL There is an option to turn them on and off (I too find them annoying). Right under HSM check box there is a "Show Help" Check box that enables them

If its not there then you are running older version.

Zero_Divide
10-16-2012, 03:42 PM
OK, I have baloons!!! I was mousing over the input field not the words "lead angle"

I still get significantly different results between the two programs.

I am using indexable end mill to compute the speeds and feeds for a saw. I have a 100mm diameter saw with carbide inserts. The saw is 7mm wide with ten inserts. I am making a 15mm deep slot in low carbon steel.

I have no idea about GWizard for i didnt look at his code.
But if you enter correct specs into FSWizard it will give you correct feeds for T-Slotting as well.
Just make sure to specify correct Shank diameter, flute length and cut width.
Should get something like that: http://zero-divide.net/index.php?page=fswizard&shell_id=199&load_tool_id=41453 (http://zero-divide.net/index.php?page=fswizard&shell_id=199&load_tool_id=41453)

whats the GWizard is telling you?

Black Forest
10-16-2012, 04:23 PM
http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab91/burnandreturn/gwizard_zps7f4e0f40.jpg

Zero_Divide
10-16-2012, 04:47 PM
Not a big difference imho
Hes just going 50% of my spindle speed
http://zero-divide.net/uploads/FSwizard_v0.014_TSLot.png

Jaakko Fagerlund
10-16-2012, 04:54 PM
Check the value of I at 1000 iterations. It will be .9999999999~. You can do that simply by adding .001 to X each time. The problem is that whether or not a rational number has a terminating expansion depends on the base in which it is expressed. Many terminating numbers in base 10 do not terminate in base 2 (and vice-versa). That produces unavoidable roundoff errors. Starting at zero and adding .001 1000 times should produce the limit value of 1. It doesn't.
Your code said x = x + 1 (number), not x = x + i (letter), so x will be 1001 after the loop has gone through. And not specifying datatypes or saying that calculations should be done with base-2 (leading to those rounding errors because floating point math isn't exact) leads to more confusions.

Zero_Divide
10-17-2012, 08:18 PM
OK, I have baloons!!! I was mousing over the input field not the words "lead angle"

I still get significantly different results between the two programs.

I am using indexable end mill to compute the speeds and feeds for a saw. I have a 100mm diameter saw with carbide inserts. The saw is 7mm wide with ten inserts. I am making a 15mm deep slot in low carbon steel.

So did you run that cutter?
I am mighty curious what speed/feed you were using.
See, I did test on various T-Slots but only up to 2" in dia.
And there FSWiz' results seemed VERY close to the ctual S/F i ended up using

BigJohnT
10-26-2012, 12:37 PM
Some kind of way to save favorite tools would be nice to be able to pick them from a combobox and not have to select the rest of the parameters.

$0.02
John

Black Forest
10-26-2012, 01:02 PM
So did you run that cutter?
I am mighty curious what speed/feed you were using.
See, I did test on various T-Slots but only up to 2" in dia.
And there FSWiz' results seemed VERY close to the ctual S/F i ended up using

Yes I did use that cutter with your program's speeds and feeds. It worked quite well. I did end up going quite a bit faster as I got more comfortable with how it was cutting.

I agree with BigJohnT. A tool crib would be a very nice addition. I would gladly pay for the program if you included just a bit more. Surely I am not alone in this thinking.

Zero_Divide
10-26-2012, 03:09 PM
Yes I did use that cutter with your program's speeds and feeds. It worked quite well. I did end up going quite a bit faster as I got more comfortable with how it was cutting.

I agree with BigJohnT. A tool crib would be a very nice addition. I would gladly pay for the program if you included just a bit more. Surely I am not alone in this thinking.

Well, your wish will quite soon come true.
Right now i am doing testing and trying to find best layout.
But most of the hard work is done.
Plus i want to make sure no hiccups happen this time.
http://zero-divide.net/uploads/FSwizard_v0.015_SS.png

EDIT: Guys thanks for feedback- something few people bother to do.

Zero_Divide
11-07-2012, 08:55 AM
Hey guys, FSWizard_V0.015 is almost ready and i need an advise on layout.
1) Does this look too cluttered to you???
2) Would you rather have tool library in a separate tab or a separate window? (I for some reason like to keep it on the same page as the calculator....)
3) Should i introduce some sort of switch that would turn on "Simple mode" where some of the fields were hidden? Its not gonna save much space though.
4) Does anyone really need Turning capability?
http://zero-divide.net/uploads/FSWizard_v0.015_ss.png

Black Forest
11-07-2012, 09:03 AM
Simple mode is not needed I think. What I would really like would be the addition of saws and face mill in the tool type. I know it is possible now to use for saws and face mill but it is not sexy!

Zero_Divide
11-07-2012, 09:33 AM
So you want to select say a "Slitting Saw" from the tool type list instead of selecting an "indexed end mill" and specifying parameters matching your slitting saw?
I am afraid that will make that list overcrowded. Haw about a separate Tool SUB Type list where you can select correct cutter sub type?

Will look someting like that: Tool Type [Indexed end mill]▼ Tool sub Type [Slitting Saw]▼

same could be done to unload drills as well

Will look someting like that: Tool Type [Drill]▼ Tool sub Type [Spade Drill]▼

Jaakko Fagerlund
11-07-2012, 09:42 AM
4) Does anyone really need Turning capability?
Sorry to sound harsh, but: "does anyone really need milling capability?"

It is like building a high end car that has all the bells and whistles, but lacks tires.

Black Forest
11-07-2012, 10:01 AM
So you want to select say a "Slitting Saw" from the tool type list instead of selecting an "indexed end mill" and specifying parameters matching your slitting saw?
I am afraid that will make that list overcrowded. Haw about a separate Tool SUB Type list where you can select correct cutter sub type?

Will look someting like that: Tool Type [Indexed end mill]▼ Tool sub Type [Slitting Saw]▼

same could be done to unload drills as well

Will look someting like that: Tool Type [Drill]▼ Tool sub Type [Spade Drill]▼

That would work just fine for me.

Zero_Divide
11-07-2012, 10:01 AM
Well i take that as +1 for turning.
But its more like building a swiss kife that does not have a can opener. You can still open a can but its not gonna look nice ;)

BigJohnT
11-07-2012, 10:03 AM
It might look a lot less cluttered if you had tabs for material and different types of ops. It is a busy screen full for sure.

John

Zero_Divide
11-13-2012, 08:55 AM
Howdy guys.
Going back to online version
Check this online mobile version out on your phone (or even your PC) and tell me if it has the stuff you are looking for in mobile app.
How does it look on IPhone?
what you dont like?
do you need it to work offline?
I know its more usable now that many of the stuff you have to pay 2$ for and its FREE! ;)
http://zero-divide.net/index.php?page=fswiz_mobile

Zero_Divide
08-30-2013, 01:13 AM
Latest status update.
Current deal on a 3 seat license for HSMAdvisor is expiring after this long weekend.
If you were going to anyway, you might want to get it before that.

More info is here.
http://zero-divide.net/index.php?page=FrontPage&shell_id=151&article_id=4470

Winners of free license keys are announced there too.
As usual thoughts on the matter are always welcome.