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aostling
10-06-2012, 01:49 PM
I drove to Colorado for a few days to see the aspens and scrub oaks in fall colors. In the mining town of Creede I saw this old mining locomotive, no coal required. The museum wasn't open, so I don't know what pressure it ran at, or what they used for seals. Anybody seen one of these in action?


http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u183/aostling/compressedairlocomotive.jpg

Timleech
10-06-2012, 02:16 PM
I suppose someone in the know could have a guess at the pressure from dimensions, plate thickness etc. Must have been fairly high to give any sort of useful run time, I should think.
'Fireless' locos used to be used in the UK, especially around power generating stations where there was plenty of high pressure steam on tap, same idea but filled with steam (and water?).
I don't know how much they were used in other countries.

Tim

Black_Moons
10-06-2012, 02:23 PM
Seems to me it would work well in a (coal?) mineshaft.
Fill with air outside where its safe from gas engine, steam, electric, whatever, send down into the mine where ignition sources = KABOOM.

(Of couse, I wonder if that tank bursting would not produce a similar impressive and dangerious explosion..)

Weston Bye
10-06-2012, 02:44 PM
I saw such a locomotive in an old gold mine in Alaska. (set up for tourist duty) Even more interesting was a running compressed air driven rock loader at the same mine. I have a photo, somewhere. The loader scooped up rubble at the end of the tracks, presumably at the face of the tunnel, and passed it "over the shoulder" into a ore car like those in Alan's photo.

Here can be found another "fireless" locomotive:

http://www.train-photos.com/picture/number10455.asp

The locomotive "boiler" was charged with high-pressure steam at the NCR powerhouse and was used for moving freight cars around the NCR property.

MaxxLagg
10-06-2012, 02:56 PM
Cool engine! On a side note, how was Creede? I was in Ouray for a few days this June. Love that area. Prettiest in Colorado. Always wanted to stop in Creede as a cousin of mine was killed there by the name of Bob Ford who in turn shot HIS cousin, Jesse James.

aostling
10-06-2012, 03:19 PM
On a side note, how was Creede? ... Always wanted to stop in Creede as a cousin of mine was killed there by the name of Bob Ford who in turn shot HIS cousin, Jesse James.

Creede is beautifully situated, at an elevation of 8854 ft. My 1941 WPA guidebook has this to say, about the shooting you mention


The ramshackle Ford Saloon, still standing, was built by Bob Ford, reputed slayer of Jesse James, Missouri desperado of both factual and dime-novel fame. On the eve of opening a new dance hall, June 10, 1892, after one of Creede's fires, a miner named O'Kelly, who claimed that the saloon owner had persecuted his parents years before, shot and killed Ford. The town's sporting element, with whom Ford had been popular, conducted the funeral; there were no flowers but plenty of wine and champagne. Later Ford's body was removed to Missouri. O'Kelly served a short prison term at Canon City.

Here you see my Forester parked on a Creede street shortly after it had been resurfaced.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u183/aostling/Creede.jpg


If you've been to Ouray I suppose you have been to Durango too. Here is Number 480 steaming into the Durango station after it's run to Silverton.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u183/aostling/Durango.jpg

michigan doug
10-06-2012, 04:47 PM
Impressive scenery and machinery.

I am distantly related to the infamous Jesse James. So, technically, your relative shot and killed my relative, and that makes us enemies.

Never quite followed the reasoning of family feuds that lasted for generations...


Peace,

doug

11 Bravo
10-06-2012, 05:52 PM
Allan,

I have not seen that locomotive at Creede, but it looks like a Porter.

There are 2 Porter compressed air locomotives on display in the Black Hills of South Dakota not far from where I live. One is actually part of a children's park in Rapid City and is not really on display as a locomotive per say. I don't know much about that one, but I suspect it came from the Homestake mine in Deadwood.

The other one is on display outside the Homestake museum in Deadwood. It is a much larger locomotive and used 2 air tanks. It operated at 1000 psi and was in service until 1961.

Here is a link to a compressed air locomotive site. Pictures of both the Porters in the Black Hills are on there. http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/airloco/airloco.htm

MaxxLagg
10-06-2012, 06:07 PM
Impressive scenery and machinery.

I am distantly related to the infamous Jesse James. So, technically, your relative shot and killed my relative, and that makes us enemies.

Never quite followed the reasoning of family feuds that lasted for generations...


Peace,

doug

Bob Ford and Jesse James were cousins so my relative that shot your relative is also yours and you and I are both related in some distant, typically Missouri way. ;)

MaxxLagg
10-06-2012, 06:15 PM
I didn't go down to Durango this time there although I've been there numerous times before and have ridden the DSNGR twice. Great trip from Durango to Silverton (and back) but I'd like to do it sometime without kids along. First time was with a 15 month old and the second was with two kids, then aged 6 and 4. Kinda hard to fully enjoy it when you're spending more time minding the kids than enjoying the scenery. Kids are young adults now, aged 18 and 20. My daughter graduated from high school this year and that's what she wanted for a gift; to go to Colorado on a photo safari sort of. So we buzzed out there and spent a few days in the Ouray area. I've been there about a dozen times but she doesn't really remember the times I took them before as it's been since they were little that we've been back.

For those that have never been to the area it's must go trip! Beautiful! Especially right about now.

aostling
10-06-2012, 07:27 PM
Here is a link to a compressed air locomotive site. Pictures of both the Porters in the Black Hills are on there. http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/airloco/airloco.htm

That is a very informative website. It answered some questions I had, about the inefficiency of an isothermal compression stage, followed by an adiabatic expansion which can ice the pipes.

I've been through Gillette only once, in 1999 when en route to Buffalo and a tent site above Ten Sleep. That is very pretty country. There was a huge RVer convention in Gillette with hundreds of motor-homes the size of Greyhound buses. I don't know why some people think they need to take the kitchen sink along when they go camping.

Lew Hartswick
10-06-2012, 07:40 PM
I don't know why some people think they need to take the kitchen sink along when they go camping.
Yes and not only the "kitchen sink" but the whole "shebang" including TV, washing machine-dryer, and the dishwasher. I even draw the line at a radio.
:-) ...Lew...

RWL
10-06-2012, 11:00 PM
I drove to Colorado for a few days to see the aspens and scrub oaks in fall colors. In the mining town of Creede I saw this old mining locomotive, no coal required. The museum wasn't open, so I don't know what pressure it ran at, or what they used for seals. Anybody seen one of these in action?


http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u183/aostling/compressedairlocomotive.jpg

Yes. They had one at the local power plant. Not that particular make, but something very similar. Just pull up to the steam outlet, tank up and go. It was used for switching coal cars in the yard.

dp
10-07-2012, 12:09 AM
This post put me immediately in mind of the Girandoni air rifle carried by Lewis and Clark. Sometimes compressed air just gets the job done. These were popular engines in tunnels for obvious reasons.

ptjw7uk
10-07-2012, 06:01 AM
Does anyone know for certain that the fireless locos had water in them as well as the superheated steam.
I can swee how they would work if they had a lareg amount of water in there so as to give a useful working time.
In my youth we had a power station behind us and the fireless shunters seemed to have a long working period before re-steaming.

Peter

RLWP
10-07-2012, 02:25 PM
From this forum (http://railways.national-preservation.com/steam-traction/18261-fireless-locos.html):


use to take around two hours to chage up from a boiler. We then ran it on passenge trains starting around 1200 until 1600 then do a shunt. When starting you would fill the boiler up around 2/3s of a glass, then fill up with steam at first the steam would turn to water. But then as pressure rose you would then drain water off via blow vavle, so that water stayed around 2/3s. we would try to get 160ish presure but more offen 140 (the filling boiler being not that good). When first used you could watch the boiler presure fall. but this would go less and less as the boiling presure of the water lowered, the steam that you had boiled the water that you had. At the end of a day you could not see the water in the glass (no lead pug so no worryes).

Richard

jdunmyer
10-07-2012, 03:03 PM
I've been through Gillette only once, in 1999 when en route to Buffalo and a tent site above Ten Sleep. That is very pretty country. There was a huge RVer convention in Gillette with hundreds of motor-homes the size of Greyhound buses. I don't know why some people think they need to take the kitchen sink along when they go camping.


That was probably the annual gathering of the Escapees, an RV club devoted to full-timers. Those people aren't "camping", but "living" in their motorhomes.

We saw a compressed air locomotive in Wallace, Idaho. As interesting as it was, our visit to the Bordello Museum was even more memorable.

The Artful Bodger
10-07-2012, 04:16 PM
So neither the temperature nor the pressure in the locomotive 'boiler' is very high? It makes my head hurt to think about it too much.:p

Abner
10-07-2012, 04:26 PM
Well, my great grandfather rode with Jesse James...so who am I supposed to be enemies with?

Evan
10-07-2012, 06:27 PM
It answered some questions I had, about the inefficiency of an isothermal compression stage, followed by an adiabatic expansion which can ice the pipes.

Compressed air is a miserably inefficient way to store energy, especially when the heat of compression is lost. It can be made a lot more efficient than that machine. By using a "reverse radiator" to absorb heat from the surrounding air the efficiency can be nearly doubled. Even then it isn't a contender with any other system except for fire safety. I wonder if they used copper or bronze tires on the wheels to prevent sparking? Methane is very easy to ignite.

Beautiful pictures but I dare not visit anyplace at such altitude and that includes flying at all. I won't get enough oxygen.

loose nut
10-07-2012, 06:46 PM
typically Missouri way. ;)

You mean that your great, great grandmother couldn't run faster then her brother.:eek:;):D

Mcgyver
10-07-2012, 07:57 PM
Yes. They had one at the local power plant. Not that particular make, but something very similar. Just pull up to the steam outlet, tank up and go. It was used for switching coal cars in the yard.

It think they'd have to....that was the impression I was left with in reading about them.

Allan, you've title it a compressed air engine; do you know this or could it be a steam engine with a heat source? Hard to imagine compressed air getting it down the siding and back

The Artful Bodger
10-07-2012, 07:57 PM
I thought they were supposed to be more efficient than similar fired locos?

aostling
10-07-2012, 08:45 PM
Allan, you've title it a compressed air engine; do you know this or could it be a steam engine with a heat source?

Open the link in reply #8, by 11 Bravo. You will see that it is a Porter compressed air locomotive. No smokestack. Maybe a whistle.

aostling
10-07-2012, 09:09 PM
I wonder if they used copper or bronze tires on the wheels to prevent sparking? Methane is very easy to ignite.

Beautiful pictures but I dare not visit anyplace at such altitude and that includes flying at all. I won't get enough oxygen.

The ores of Creede were mostly silver, with some gold and zinc. Methane, I suppose, would be more of a problem in a coal mine. It looks like the tires on this locomotive are painted, so it is not easy to tell if it has copper tires.

I'm sorry to hear that you cannot visit anyplace at altitudes which are common in Colorado -- 8,000 to 11,000 feet (with a few higher passes). From what I gather it is not possible for you to "acclimatize" your body to the reduced oxygen and pressure by making a gradual ascent, several days perhaps. I wish there was a way.

Peter S
10-07-2012, 09:18 PM
Alot of posters seem to think the smokeless and compressed air locos were used to prevent explosion, but surely that is only one reason and applies to coal mines, not to gold or other safe mines or most factories. The point is that a normal coal-fired loco could not be used underground, or in factories for that matter because of the smoke. My guess is that compressed air locos were ideal underground because of the huge compressed air supplies generally available above and below ground and fireless type were ideal around power stations, factories etc because of the large, economically-produced steam supplies to hand.

ps. yes I know coal-fired cranes and locos were used inside works, but I bet they were never popular.

J Tiers
10-07-2012, 09:33 PM
A book I have refers to compressed air locos being used in cotton handling facilities, where a lot of combustible dust is around. Might also apply to flour milling, some textile factories, coal handling and crushing areas, some chemical factories, paint making factories, etc, etc.

Most factories? not really...... although even a propane forklift is a bit obnoxious to have around, so there would be advantages. Electric via battery is not at all so safe.... they can have the sparking areas shielded and screened, but a major failure would be a problem. All a CA loco can do is go boom... and that is pretty local. Not good if you are near it, but unlikely to blow up the whole place.

ckelloug
10-07-2012, 10:56 PM
What about some type of dieseling effect with a compressed air locomotive?

aostling
10-07-2012, 11:45 PM
What about some type of dieseling effect with a compressed air locomotive?

Dieseling, is that not caused by ignition of a fuel-air mixture by glowing carbon deposits? How could you get that in a compressed air engine?

J Tiers
10-08-2012, 12:06 AM
Dieseling, is that not caused by ignition of a fuel-air mixture by glowing carbon deposits? How could you get that in a compressed air engine?

I suspect not at all.... because the heat of compression is what causes ignition in a classic diesel. Glowing bits can do it for a gas engine, with compression no doubt helping.

But the air in the loco was compressed a while back, and has cooled, not to mention further cooling as it is throttled to the cylinders, and expanded in them. It would be more likely in the air compressor itself, charging the tank to 1200lb (81 atmospheres, diesels compress to perhaps 17 or so, depending). If oil got atomrized in some way, it might be ignited by the heat of compression.

Mcgyver
10-08-2012, 12:19 AM
Open the link in reply #8, by 11 Bravo. You will see that it is a Porter compressed air locomotive. No smokestack. Maybe a whistle.

interesting, good link

Based on fast I can trip my air compressor with certain tools I'd have guessed you wouldn't get very far on a tank of air doing that kind of work. btw, no smoke stack doesn't mean its not a steam engine, just not one with a boiler and combustion, ie the type industrial switcher (called fireless locomotives) that would fill up with super heater water from a stationary boiler.

11 Bravo
10-08-2012, 12:34 AM
That is a very informative website. It answered some questions I had, about the inefficiency of an isothermal compression stage, followed by an adiabatic expansion which can ice the pipes.

I've been through Gillette only once, in 1999 when en route to Buffalo and a tent site above Ten Sleep. That is very pretty country. There was a huge RVer convention in Gillette with hundreds of motor-homes the size of Greyhound buses. I don't know why some people think they need to take the kitchen sink along when they go camping.

Glad you found the link interesting.

We have a surprising number of big conventions like that in Gillette. The big RV shows in addition to the RV club jamborees seem to have something going at least every summer. We had a big convention of guys that build commercial fireworks a few years back. It was pretty cool. Apparently they would build fireworks all day learning new techniques and stuff, then shoot them off every night to judge the results. We have a BMW motorcycle convention here that brings in hundreds of BMW riders. Lots of stuff happens out at that Cam-Plex center.

Evan
10-08-2012, 12:51 AM
I thought they were supposed to be more efficient than similar fired locos?

Not even close. Compressed air efficiency calculations must take into account the thermodynamic cost of compressing the air to begin with. By the time the actual work produced at point of use is calculated vs the work required to store the air the entire cycle efficiency of that type of engine is less than 1 percent. Even with the latest current technology the best that anyone has been able to do is around 10 to 15%. As I said, anything (as motive power) is better than that.

aostling
10-08-2012, 01:23 AM
btw, no smoke stack doesn't mean its not a steam engine, just not one with a boiler and combustion, ie the type industrial switcher (called fireless locomotives) that would fill up with super heater water from a stationary boiler.

I was thrown by your comment: "could it be a steam engine with a heat source?" I thought you meant an onboard heat source.

kendall
10-08-2012, 02:55 AM
No idea about the loco, but went through that town when I was wandering around the country as a teenager back in the early 70s, back then it was little more than a dumpy little town filled with ramshackle buildings, took an hour to find a place to get a drink and half a day's walking before I got a ride out with a couple of stoners and fellow longhairs heading for california.

Mcgyver
10-08-2012, 08:48 AM
I was thrown by your comment: "could it be a steam engine with a heat source?" I thought you meant an onboard heat source.

ah....sorry, my mistake, meant to say "without"

M.I. Twice
10-08-2012, 11:44 AM
Their is one in the park in Colman Alberta it was used in the coal mine I think it was the McGivery Mine.

M.I. Twice
10-08-2012, 11:54 AM
their is one in the park in Colman Alberta it was used in the coal mine I think it was the McGivery mine but it has been 40 years passed ago I lived in the Crows Nest Pass.
M.I. Twice

Black_Moons
10-08-2012, 07:24 PM
Superheated steam makes an intresting power source. As evan states, compressed air SUCKS.
But you can superheat water, And while it boiling off will reduce the heat, if its superheated it has awhile to boil before it drops below 100c, Theres no issue with running dry since you don't have a fire to melt the boiler/tubes/brazing, You could extend the running time by using some other superheated material (Maybe something to do with regeneration from brakes? Or a large chunk of steel thats heated to 1000c?), water can store a LOT of heat too and phase change is where efficencys really at. Compression sucks.

MaxxLagg
10-08-2012, 08:52 PM
You mean that your great, great grandmother couldn't run faster then her brother.:eek:;):D

Actually, and I Sh!t you not, my grandmother never had to change her name when she got married. Back then I don't think it was the 3rd cousin rule but how many 'hollers away from your prospective mate you lived. :D

J Tiers
10-08-2012, 10:25 PM
if you have the air, and you cannot have the fire, or any serious risk of it, it kinda does not matter exactly how efficient it isn't.... You do as well as you can, and live with it.

The air re-heater is a good idea...... A paint factory near where my employer used to be had a big tank of liquid nitrogen. No information what they used it for, but blanketing solvent tanks and the like comes to mind. They have 3 story high tanks of all sorts of volatile solvents out by the road, and mixing air with teh fumes seems like a rotten idea..

Anyhow, on the exit pipe, there is a huge heat exchanger, which is generally about half iced-up. presumably this helps them get the nitrogen out as a not horribly cold gas.

I have seen even better expander systems that ran a turbine or the like from teh expanding gas. presumably they do not need any such shaft power at the paint plant

kf1002002
10-09-2012, 10:48 AM
I expect that this was used for underground mining where you do not want to contaminate the air (anymore than it already is). At a mine where I worked many years ago in Northern Ont they used air for most underground machinery and electric battery locomotives (much smaller than the picture) which were good for about a shift per charge. This cuts down drastically on the ventilation required, in fact I think all the ventilation in that mine was natural. Back to the original question the air pressure was about 100 psi.

Ken

kf2qd
10-09-2012, 10:21 PM
Charged up with a fresh load of steam (and hot water) . There is a more modern one in North East PA (that's a town a little east of Erie) It was a nice welded tank with a small cab at the rear. Was used at a power plant in Erie. Could run for 8 hours on a charge. Was filled with hot water from the power plant boiler at pressure.

1-800miner
10-09-2012, 10:44 PM
I operated one very similar to that at a mine near Fairplay Colo. We were working over a mile underground with an electric loco and a dozen ore cars.
Out side we dumped the waste off the side of an eighty foot high trestle.You ALWAYS chain the ore car to the rail in case the muck is sticky and wants to take the car with it over the side.
Well some one didn't. Locomotive and twelve cars down in the canyon,no way to salvage anything until spring.
The owner scrambles up a few ore cars and this ancient air loco built from a propane tank and a vane type air motor chain drive to an axle.
Hook it up to the main air line with a one inch hose and wait half an hour for it to reach pressure. jump on, open the valve and take off like a rocket....for maybe a hundred feet.Out of air.
Ended up dismantling five thousand feet of six inch steel air line and adding tees and valves every few hundred feet.
Must have had three hundred feet of air hose draped over the damned thing so we reach the next recharge valve.

There were some wood fired steam locos used years ago.In timbered mines they would nail corrugated tin to the overhead timbers so the sparks would not lodge in the timber and catch fire.
I don't know that they were used in a dead end drift,ventilation would be impossible.The only ones I heard of were larger mines with multiple adits and good ventilation.

But the majority of the old mines used a pony or donkey to pull the cars.I have explored a few old mines and found rooms blasted out as a livery,with old harness still hanging on nails.

aostling
10-09-2012, 11:57 PM
But the majority of the old mines used a pony or donkey to pull the cars.I have explored a few old mines and found rooms blasted out as a livery,with old harness still hanging on nails.

Yours is quite a tale. I looked up Fairplay in the 1941 WPA guide book to Colorodo, and read this:


FAIRPLAY, 71.3 m. (9,964 alt., 221 pop.), is another of the State's old mining towns. A group of prospectors, affronted because miners drove them from the rich placers at Tarryall (see Tour 15a), settled here in 1859 and named their camp Fairplay in disparagement of their rivals.

Near the center of town a monument (L), erected by citizens in 1930, marks the Grave of Prunes, a burro. Brought into South Park in 1867, Prunes is said to have worked in every mine in the Fairplay-Alma district. Robert Sherwood, an old-time miner, who died in 1931 at the age of 82, was buried at the rear of the monument as he had requested.

Did you meet any old-timers when you were there, guys whose memories went back to the 1930s?

11 Bravo
10-10-2012, 12:02 AM
..........................Back to the original question the air pressure was about 100 psi.................................Ken

I haven't seen any compressed air locomotives with listed pressures that low.

The data I have found on the Porters from the early 1900s like the one in the OP show a storage pressure of 800 PSI and an engine working pressure of 250 PSI.

Some of the later Porter engines around 1930 had storage pressures of 1000 PSI. Porter had one design that had a storage pressure of 2100 PSI.

Baldwin and Dicknson both had compressed air locomotives with listed storage pressure of 600 PSI.

Some of the late compressed air locomotives made in the 1950s listed storage pressures of 2900 PSI.

1-800miner
10-10-2012, 12:27 AM
I worked in Fairplay in 73 and 74. There were some guys 50 and 60 years old. I listened to every one of their stories that I could.
I remember an old guy at the bar,in his seventies or eighties. He would listen to us youngsters bragging what rough and tough miners we were. Then he would tell us his stories of mules packing twenty ton crusher up the mountains or stinging cable tramways over three mountain ranges.
I remember him telling me that a top miner was worth a dollar a day, a good nipper was paid four bits, and if gold ever hit 75$ he was going to sell all of his because that meant that America had gone to hell in a hand basket.
The mine I worked at was the London mine,between Alma and Fairplay, to the west just a mile or two from the continental divide.

As far as working air pressure on the air locos, it is 120 or 130.
That is what all the other air tools use and that is all the compressor would put out. So that was all you had.

J Tiers
10-10-2012, 12:37 AM
As far as working air pressure on the air locos, it is 120 or 130.
That is what all the other air tools use and that is all the compressor would put out. So that was all you had.

Not what the Porter info says.... and there would be NO need for that thick plate if such a low and totally useless pressure were used....... You seem to assume the loco was charged up underground...... doubtful, it would be in and out bringing ore and etc out. Lots of chance to re-pressurize.

1-800miner
10-10-2012, 12:54 AM
I was there. I was the one charging it. Out in the compressor shed was a Gardner Denver 750 compressor that would fill the entire canyon with black smoke if you tried to adjust the pressure past 130.
I have worked maybe a hundred mines and tunnels and its always 120 to 150.
I know that msha has a limit on air pressure used underground. I could look up the number in the regulations,but I am sure its under two hundred.

kf1002002
10-10-2012, 11:23 AM
The heavy plate and rivets in the picture do seem to imply a higher pressure than 100 psi; but remember that for a given pressure the barrel stress will be proportional to the tank diameter.
At the mine where I worked the air was used for drills and mucking machines; there were no air powered locos and know darned well it was in the ballpark of 100---125 psi.

Ken

Weston Bye
10-10-2012, 03:01 PM
I agree with miner as to the pressure. It is certainly possible to achieve higher pressures with an intensifier - a large piston pushing a smaller piston to pump high pressure, but such things use a lot of air that won't get into the loco. I built one that uses 100psi air to produce 1200psi hydraulic pressure that is used daily for leak testing fuel injector coils. The same is done with air.

Such a simple device could be mounted on the loco, and it would huff and puff like a Westinghouse steam air compressor all the time it was filling the tank - and waste a lot of air. Miner would probably have mentioned it.

JCHannum
10-10-2012, 09:06 PM
It sounds like 1-800miner's engine was a rig of sorts to get by when the electric engine was lost.

This page from the previous link clearly shows the design was for the main receiver tank to be presurized to 150 atmospheres. This pressure was reduced twice before being introduced into the engine. The engine illustrated bears a very close resemblence to the engine in the OP photos.

http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/airloco/airloco.htm#p

Evan
10-10-2012, 10:37 PM
Everyone is correct. The difference is simply because of using what was available in various situations. Everything I have learned about compressed air engines is that they usually ran on at least close to 1000 psi or more. That doesn't mean you can't run it on 100 psi but does mean it sure won't go far or pull as much.

RLWP
10-11-2012, 06:06 AM
Everyone is correct. The difference is simply because of using what was available in various situations. Everything I have learned about compressed air engines is that they usually ran on at least close to 1000 psi or more. That doesn't mean you can't run it on 100 psi but does mean it sure won't go far or pull as much.

Yep, I'll bet if you ran it on 100psi, it would probably only go 100 feet

hang on a minute....

Richard

bob ward
10-11-2012, 07:35 AM
A lot of posters seem to think the smokeless and compressed air locos were used to prevent explosion, but surely that is only one reason and applies to coal mines, not to gold or other safe mines or most factories. The point is that a normal coal-fired loco could not be used underground, or in factories for that matter because of the smoke. My guess is that compressed air locos were ideal underground because of the huge compressed air supplies generally available above and below ground and fireless type were ideal around power stations, factories etc because of the large, economically-produced steam supplies to hand.

ps. yes I know coal-fired cranes and locos were used inside works, but I bet they were never popular.


Its hard to believe 100 odd years later on, but the London Underground used steam locos from its inception in the early 1860s until electrification started in the early 1900s, by which time the system was carrying millions of passengers a year.

1-800miner
10-11-2012, 12:26 PM
I am not disagreeing with the pressure they used But I think they were used as special applications, a thousand psi compressor is a hellofa machine. You don't see one every day.
I got to thinking about what someone said about the heavy plating on the loco. Every thing in the mining industry is built robust.
Try to picture a four foot wide train speeding through a tunnel with rock walls just a few inches wider than the train. Some time it jumps the rails and takes serious hits. They have to be built strong by x3.
The word "finesse" is nowhere to be found in a miners vocabulary.

Speaking of which. Three miners were working together and one gets blown up. Of the two survivors, the one tells the other"You were closer to his family than I, so you have to tell the wife But be sure to use some tact when you tell her".
So the other miner goes to town with the bad news and returns to the mine with a bottle of whiskey.
"Were did you get the booze?" " Oh,I just bet her a bottle that she was a single woman."

tdmidget
10-14-2012, 12:11 AM
I am not disagreeing with the pressure they used But I think they were used as special applications, a thousand psi compressor is a hellofa machine. You don't see one every day.
I got to thinking about what someone said about the heavy plating on the loco. Every thing in the mining industry is built robust.
Try to picture a four foot wide train speeding through a tunnel with rock walls just a few inches wider than the train. Some time it jumps the rails and takes serious hits. They have to be built strong by x3.
The word "finesse" is nowhere to be found in a miners vocabulary.

Speaking of which. Three miners were working together and one gets blown up. Of the two survivors, the one tells the other"You were closer to his family than I, so you have to tell the wife But be sure to use some tact when you tell her".
So the other miner goes to town with the bad news and returns to the mine with a bottle of whiskey.
"Were did you get the booze?" " Oh,I just bet her a bottle that she was a single woman."
"Speeding through a mine"? You must not have spent much time in one.

1-800miner
10-14-2012, 02:30 AM
Not too much,started in the seventies and still doing it. I still have a lot to learn.

aostling
02-20-2013, 09:59 PM
Were the engineers at CitroŽn inspired by this thread?

http://www.tflcar.com/2013/02/how-about-a-hybrid-that-uses-air-instead-of-batteries-the-citroen-c3-is-an-air-hybrid/

I'd like to know how much the car's range is extended by this novel mode of regenerative braking.