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Boucher
10-23-2012, 08:44 PM
My newest boring bar came with a slightly different hold down screw. The enclosed Wiha Flag driver is marked T15P-2 and will not go in the older T15 screws. Any body know what is going on.

Mike Folks
10-23-2012, 11:11 PM
They might need Torx Plus drivers. My understanding is the fastener maufacturers are changing the Torx recess slightly for a better grip(could be wrong).

oldtiffie
10-23-2012, 11:16 PM
And to meet ISO/DIN standards?

I prefer Torx

RussZHC
10-23-2012, 11:19 PM
http://www.wihatools.com/Marketing/torxspec.htm, might help...?

RANT: sorry to go sideways in a thread, why, WHY do we keep doing this to ourselves? It really begins to look like slight adjustments are just for the sake of change. According to the link "less likely to cam out", "XYZ % more torque possible", "Less fatigue for operator" Don't know about others but if used properly and quality in the first place, I have not cammed out a lot of regular Torx, don't need more torque that I am aware of, way too small screws to fatigue operator.

oldtiffie
10-23-2012, 11:41 PM
I guess that like it or not we just have to "suck it up".

Being upset about or resenting change is not going to change it.

mickeyf
10-24-2012, 12:13 AM
Um... unless they've also changed the threads, it oughta be pretty simple to replace the screw? (Cheaper than buying a new drive...?)

darryl
10-24-2012, 12:37 AM
They did something to the 'phillips' screw heads awhile back as well. It's probably just enough different that they wouldn't have to pay for permission to use it. Don't recall- maybe it was Japan that did that.

Circlip
10-24-2012, 04:03 AM
They do it just to piss you orft. Another set of tools to buy until the next tooling revolution strikes.:(

Regards Ian

Dan Dubeau
10-24-2012, 06:20 AM
They did something to the 'phillips' screw heads awhile back as well. It's probably just enough different that they wouldn't have to pay for permission to use it. Don't recall- maybe it was Japan that did that.

Japan "Philips" have always been different. A good set of JIS screwdrivers is the best fix. Especially if you work on Japanese motorcycles.

Doozer
10-24-2012, 07:34 AM
I guess that like it or not we just have to "suck it up".

Being upset about or resenting change is not going to change it.

Yeah, and sucking it up is not going to change anything either.
Being passive solves nothing.

--Doozer

Black_Moons
10-24-2012, 08:49 AM
They did something to the 'phillips' screw heads awhile back as well. It's probably just enough different that they wouldn't have to pay for permission to use it. Don't recall- maybe it was Japan that did that.

Posidrive, or somesuch nonsense.

thaiguzzi
10-24-2012, 10:25 AM
Bloody hate Torx. On Harleys and car applications where heat is involved (hot/cold cycles) they can be a bastard. What's wrong with good old Allen heads?
mike.

Bob Fisher
10-24-2012, 04:45 PM
Not sure where the Poz I Drive originated, but I do know it drives better than a Phillips, but only with the proper bit. I like the Torx system but again, you need the proper size and good quality. The cheap Chinese made bits just don't cut it and will round out either the bit or the screw. Bob.

thaiguzzi
10-25-2012, 10:05 AM
And so will Snap-On, Mac Tools, and Proto. I know, 'cos i've done them all in on 1/4" Torx fasteners on HD primary clutch inspection covers. I always suggest to the owners going back to Allen heads on that particular application, even dome head Allens.
Mike.

thaiguzzi
10-25-2012, 10:06 AM
And so will Snap-On, Mac Tools, and Proto. I know, 'cos i've done them all in on 1/4" Torx fasteners on HD primary clutch inspection covers. I always suggest to the owners going back to Allen heads on that particular application, even dome head Allens.
Mike.

bob_s
10-25-2012, 10:19 AM
Yeah, and sucking it up is not going to change anything either.
Being passive solves nothing.

--Doozer

Yeah let the manufacturers know by NOT BUYING their products, it seems to have worked in the north american machine tool industry!

Doozer
10-25-2012, 10:43 AM
Yeah let the manufacturers know by NOT BUYING their products, it seems to have worked in the north american machine tool industry!

I am going to do exactly that.
I am an engineer and I design machinery for a large company.
None of my designs will have Torx bolts.
They will have Allen head bolts.
If the Torx company sees sales slipping,
maybe they should start making Allen head bolts.
Seems simple to me.

--Doozer

thaiguzzi
10-25-2012, 11:08 AM
Doozer -
Good man !
I remember when Torx first came out on cars, not one auto mechanic could tell me why they were introduced, except to say that the manufacturers had fitted another item to discourage "back street mechanics", and they'd have to go and buy more new tools.
Mike.

Timleech
10-25-2012, 12:19 PM
Not sure where the Poz I Drive originated, but I do know it drives better than a Phillips, but only with the proper bit. I like the Torx system but again, you need the proper size and good quality. The cheap Chinese made bits just don't cut it and will round out either the bit or the screw. Bob.

Agreed, Pozi is much better than Philips but you must have the proper driver.

I've taken to carrying one of these in the car:-

http://www.1for6.co.uk/revolutionary.htm

Pretty good for when you're stuck, of course the right bit will always be the best.

Tim

philbur
10-25-2012, 12:30 PM
I was under the impression that screw head design is largely dictated by the big users, like auto manufacturers and such, who are looking to optimise easy and reliable use with semi-automatic equipment. I doubt those users are easily persuaded unless there is a true advantage, at least to them.

Phil:)

EddyCurr
10-25-2012, 12:32 PM
What's wrong with good old Allen heads?

... when Torx first came out on cars, not one auto mechanic could tell me why they were introduced, ...Here is a document published by Torx licensee Semblex (http://www.semblex.com/files/Torx-Semblex.pdf) offering some arguements
as to why Torx drive is superior to slot, cruciform (Phillips) and hex head drives

Boucher
10-25-2012, 08:54 PM
Well I had insert type boring bars in 3/8 and 5/8 that sometimes left a performance gap in between. So I ordered a 1/2" with the same CCMT 32.52 that the 5/8 bar uses. When I started to install the insert the screw change became apparent. The new one does seem to be a significant improvement but does not appear to be interchangeable. Seems like the better choice would be to replace the old screws, which I have a good supply of. Today I was looking in the Carbide Depot site to order some inserts and could not find the new screws. I will talk to their service people tomorrow.

darryl
10-25-2012, 11:15 PM
I use a lot of allen head fasteners, and I doubt I'll change that anytime soon. But after reading about the torx system, I can see that the stated benefits are there. It looks like torx plus puts a bit more meat on the driver bit, and allows for a slightly thicker wall on the fastener head. It comes closer to the look of a splined coupling. It does not look like the standard torx drivers will work in the plus heads.

I can see that it will take some care to keep the two driver systems separate in the tool box.

I have to wonder now about what thaiguzzi said about torx bolts in hot/cold cycling applications. Offhand I can't see why they would be any more difficult to remove than any other head type, unless the driver is more prone to breaking because of it's smaller size relative to the thread size. Pretty hard to beat the hex head bolt for that. Where space around the bolt head is limited, you're forced to go with an internal driver, like an allen head or a torx (or any of the other myriad types). Offhand, it seems to me that the allen wrench would be a stronger thing than the torx wrench, size for size, but I can see the torx bolt head being more resistant to cam out than the allen-