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View Full Version : OT!!! Replacement windows tobe or not to be?



laddy
10-25-2012, 05:52 PM
Hey,
My house is a 1944 house wood frame Old alluminum siding. Old wood double hung windows with the mulions and glazing . I looked into Marvin whole window replacement. STICKER SHOCK!!! Any body do it? Can't be that hard from what I have seen but it is hard to buy the good windows. Is it worth it anyway or would a slow tedious rebuild of existing windows be just as good? The windoiw replacements have a limited lifespan from what I hear yet the old wood ones are still pretty darn good afert 60 some years. Thanks to all Fred

bhowden
10-25-2012, 06:05 PM
Our house is 1917 with double hung windows. We did a combination of converting some of the rear windows to home made casement windows, new custom made double hungs in the front and a couple of Hunt single hung windows in the upstairs dormers. Lots of work but we are happy with the results. All the double and single hung have spring balances instead of the weights.

Brian

uncle pete
10-25-2012, 06:14 PM
Laddy,
I just finished replacing all mine a few months ago including a fairly large bay window. Depending on exactly what you want, the overall price floats quite a bit. I bought double glazed vinyl coated that are hung by exterior flanges. Their certainly not the worlds best, but really easy to hang yourself, and new windows and doors make a unbelievable difference. I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. A word of advice, double any estimate in hours you think it will take to do the job. New windows and doors then require new siding, that requires a new roof. The driveway starts looking like crap. Wife needs all new curtains for the new windows. Then the carpet starts looking shabby. Then.....................................???? It's a bit pointless to list everything though.;) Don't say I didn't warn you.

Pete

flylo
10-25-2012, 07:00 PM
I sold windows for many years, including Marvin. If your frames are OK I'd recommend Silverline vinyl replacement windows. Silverline is owned by Andersen & have a lifetime warrenty on the whole window, frame, sash, hardware for as long as you own your home. After the first one they take about 1/2 hour each to install. Price should be $200 per window or less. PM me if I can be of any help. Thanks! Eric

kendall
10-25-2012, 07:38 PM
You can also buy the panes themselves and replace just the glass. It's much cheaper if the existing windows are standard sized.

I've installed hundreds of windows, and on many of them the frames are so cheaply constructed that the glass is the only thing worthwhile in them.

loose nut
10-25-2012, 07:43 PM
I replaced all the windows in the house a few years ago, several large ones included, triple pane, argon filled, low E glass. I went the best ones available at the time, almost $15000. Outside noise levels dropped to almost nothing and the wind doesn't whistle though anymore, worth every penny.

J Tiers
10-25-2012, 07:47 PM
Thing of it is, the windows , if tight, are not as bad a loss as you think, in many cases. naturally if they are shaky, loose, and let the wind through, they can use to be replaced. We lived in a place like that many years ago, $400 per month to heat it..... the landlord even gave us a break on the rent because of the insane expense... we were his first tenants, and he had no idea what the heat cost.

Our present house is the same type exactly, brick with old wood windows, etc. But this house is TIGHT. Had an energy audit a few years ago (which was generally a total waste of money, I do NOT recommend energy audits anymore) and the total leakage area in the house was under a square foot equivalent. We also have hollow tile lining on the brick, which may not have been true of the other house.

We have good triple track storms, and generally good windows. House stays pretty warm, although we do keep it on the cool side. new windows would be unlikely to ever repay their cost at present.

With a frame house, built when insulation was not much of a consideration, the windows are the least of your problems. if new windows are like a concrete wall, the rest of the house is like a rotten picket fence. (I used to live in one like THAT also....) No point in replacing a 2 foot section of fence with concrete wall, but leaving 25 feet of bad picket fence..... First bring the house walls up to snuff, then worry about windows.

PixMan
10-25-2012, 07:51 PM
Laddy, my house it about 3 years newer than yours. I bought 22 replacement windows for mine from The Home Depot, their "American Craftsman" brand, top model (at the time) No.9500. They ranged in price (because of varying sizes) from a low of $130 to a high of $190. When I bought there was a deal that if you bought 3 or more you would get Low-E glass and argon gas fllled. They're 4 years old now and are holding up great.

As flylo indicated the first one tool me 45 minutes. By the time I got to the 3rd or 5th one, I was down to just over 20 minutes each.

Once done, the first thing I noticed was the decrease in noise from the outside. HUGE difference! Later, I did find my heating bill (forced hot air by natural gas) had dropped by about 15%. The windows paid for themselves quickly from savings. The build quality assures the lifetime guarantee, the double-locks added to security. I might look around for overall better quality, though the ones I bought are still pretty good.

laddy
10-25-2012, 09:26 PM
For twelve windows they are talking $25,000 I can't see it I will check out Silver line next then think about rebuilding. Thanks Guys!

laddy
10-25-2012, 09:36 PM
forgot to ask.... Did you guys do total rplacement, sashes and all or inserts into the existing window frame? Thanks Fred

flylo
10-25-2012, 10:04 PM
Should be able to do it for $2500. If you deside on Silverlines make you register them with Silverline then your all set.

J Tiers
10-25-2012, 11:27 PM
Don't count on getting results equal to Pixman's experience..... You won't unless the windows are really bad, and the walls are decently insulated, which was often not the case for houses built then.

And what kind of thieves are charging $2000 per window? Around here you can get a pretty darn good window for $500. A couple places advertise their $189 windows, but they usually end up costing around $225 each after the "fine print" factors in.

Black_Moons
10-26-2012, 12:23 AM
Don't count on getting results equal to Pixman's experience..... You won't unless the windows are really bad, and the walls are decently insulated, which was often not the case for houses built then.

And what kind of thieves are charging $2000 per window? Around here you can get a pretty darn good window for $500. A couple places advertise their $189 windows, but they usually end up costing around $225 each after the "fine print" factors in.

Agreed, Iv never heard of $2000 for a window. I think it was only $300 to get my car windshield replace and thats fancy bent glass, designed just for my truck with automanufacturer gouge on top!
maybe a 8'x10' bay window in a skyscraper that has to be made of 1/2" thick 'shatterproof' glass would cost $2000.. but none in a house thats for sure.

uncle pete
10-26-2012, 12:50 AM
Mullions and high end clear grain wood casings can and do add a lot to to the price that's for sure. Mine are obviously a different type and lower end window. 10 windows for my place and most were custom sized and built ended up at around $3,200, $900 of that was for the center bay window alone. But my price is with the standard Canadian rip off. I have no doubts you can do far far better than Marvin's attempted rape.

Pete

SGW
10-26-2012, 06:32 AM
$25,000 is insane.

Last year we got a local carpenter to replace the 1950s-era single pane double-hung windows in our house -- frames, sash, trim, the works -- with new Anderson Low-E double hung windows. I think it worked out to about $600 a window, and that was probably the most expensive way to go about it. If you keep the existing frames and just install vinyl replacement sash, I'd guess you could do it for about $300 a window, probably a bit less.

SteveF
10-26-2012, 07:49 AM
I had four double hung windows on the barn that I decided to "rebuild" instead of replace. First the old glazing compound needed to be removed, then some of the muntins were chewed by a dog so those were routered flat and new pieces attached. Then all the old paint was scraped off. Then reglazing, which was a pain in the butt and takes 30-60 days to harden. Finally priming and repainting and now they look great. Total cost was minimal. Total labor involved was insane and I'll never do it again. I could have put in some cheap vinyl windows and been done in a day.

Steve

michigan doug
10-26-2012, 11:35 AM
I've been slowly replacing my old windows, some very old single pane, some old double pane with aluminum frames. The rooms with the new windows are noticeably more comfortable. The very best super high priced windows are a little better than the middle of the price range windows, but not enough better for me to justify the additional cost. Look for a deal or a promo and get it done for a small fraction of your original bid.

HTH,

doug

laddy
10-26-2012, 06:29 PM
WoW!
No transparency in the entire process. Like buying a car. You can't find out the price for a particular window. Stinks! Thanks to all for the input! Think I will sit back and think for a bit. The estimate people have already called back twice. Think I will depend on myself as usual. Best to all! Fred

SGW
10-27-2012, 07:18 AM
Go to a lumberyard and get window prices. The replacement window companies are IMO often the most expensive way to go about it. They charge as much as they can get away with. That opening salvo of $25,000 was their hope you would turn out to be a total sucker.

wawoodman
10-27-2012, 10:12 AM
We had the sash only replacement done. We went pretty high end: Aluminum clad exterior, wood interior, and mullions. the interesting feature is that we got what they call "false divided light." There are mulls on the outside, on the inside, and between the double panes. So it really does look like true divided lights, but is a lot less expensive. In addition, the downstairs are unbalanced layout, and custom 33/66 layout, rather than the more common 40/60.

It was about 27 sets. Installation took 2 days. (No, I didn't do it.) Right around 14 grand, IIRC. Worth every penny.

Gunsmithing
10-27-2012, 10:32 AM
If you live in CA just replace saves on the power bill. Try also insulated the walls in 1944 all most all homes had none.
I just move to home am in today the owner before me paid $600.00 for power I dope that down to $110 per month temperature outside this year was over 110 deg inside 76 deg. All I did was replace the windows and insulated the wall and attic. Whit doube hung windows this not hard to do take the old sliding part of the window and put in the new one. Takes on your windows less than 1/2 hour to do.

Dave




Hey,
My house is a 1944 house wood frame Old alluminum siding. Old wood double hung windows with the mulions and glazing . I looked into Marvin whole window replacement. STICKER SHOCK!!! Any body do it? Can't be that hard from what I have seen but it is hard to buy the good windows. Is it worth it anyway or would a slow tedious rebuild of existing windows be just as good? The windoiw replacements have a limited lifespan from what I hear yet the old wood ones are still pretty darn good afert 60 some years. Thanks to all Fred

DR
10-27-2012, 10:34 AM
1920 home, double hung wood windows. Pacific NW, so not severe weather in winter.

Replaced 14 windows with Jeldwen wood frame double hungs from Home Depot. You measure carefully so new window fits existing frame. Depot has frequent sales of their various brands, usually 25% off list. Plus, sign up for their credit card and get 10% more off (credit card discount is only supposed to cover first $2K, but quoter allowed it on total). Around $4500, slight energy credit on income tax.

I don't know what the payback period will be, but worth it to us since forced air heat was not so good in areas re-windowed, especially in the multi-window breakfast nook. Noise reduction is nice too. Able to now open windows that had been painted shut decades ago.

An unexpected bonus was the clearness of the new glass. Our old windows had original glass, very wavy which was like looking through permanently dirty windows.

First window installation a couple three hours. Removing old sash weight pulley is worst part of job. Maybe an hour per if no problems with follow ons. Everything is done from inside house, no need for ladder on high second story windows.

Wood is primed, supposed to be treated to withstand rot for 25 years. Looks to me like plain pine with light coat of primer. But, we don't plan on being in house that long so probably won't know.

flylo
10-27-2012, 11:52 AM
Laddy, Look at all the machines & tooling you can now buy with the money you save! $22,500 gets a lot these days.

bborr01
10-27-2012, 12:47 PM
We replaced all of the windows in our house about 25 years ago with Marvin windows. It was part of a fairly major renovation that included extra insulation, vinyl siding, gutters and windows including basement storm windows. Then about 5 years later we replaced the single pane windows at our cottage in a similar renovation using Marvin windows.

We have been very disappointed with the Marvin windows. The big bow window in our living room has 4 casement windows in it. They sweat a lot in the winter season and it has led to the frames rotting out near the bottom. Contacted Marvin maybe 8 years ago and they wanted something like $500 each for new sashes only. We decided to wait for a while and checked a couple of years later, figuring we would spend the $1,000 and get 2 sashes replaced. Guess what, the price had gone up to about 800 each. Now we are looking at just replacing the whole 11' wide window replaced.

Then at the cottage we have problems with the Marvin sliding door. It has steamed up between the panes and believe me it does nothing for the view of the lake on the other side of the steamed up glass. I called to price having someone come out and replace the glass and it is nearly $500 for one side. I will probably just pull some siding and replace the whole window rather than risk fixing the Marvin and then having the same thing happen to the other pane.

We also have a rental property on the same lake as the cottage. I replaced the main floor windows there with vinyl replacements. Cost was about $150 each on average for argon filled w/low e glass. As others have said, once you do a few of them they take about a half hour each and are super easy to replace. THEY ALSO DON'T ROT OUT. The vinyl replacements don't look quite as nice as wood when the wood is new but vinyl looks a lot better than rotted wood.

I have read that the real caddilac of windows are the fiberglass ones, but that they are expensive.

And yes, there is a reason the window salespeople have called back twice. There is a lot of profit built into their quote.

Brian

tdkkart
10-27-2012, 12:48 PM
The estimate people have already called back twice.


If I was about to clear $15-20,000 profit I'd be callin' your ass every hour.............

flylo
10-27-2012, 01:18 PM
That's no joke as the salesman gets more than the installers & they get $100+ per opening. They're calling because they hope your the next "Golden Goose".