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motorworks
02-24-2004, 06:54 PM
Hi
Has anyone here delt with ebay...800watt ?
Purchased a co-ax in mid Jan. Sent a MO.
I emailed him several times with no response.
Only after saying that I would "take it further" did I get a reply.
Now he wants more money to ship it!!
I had a look at his feed back and was floored
35 negatives in past month!!
Has anyone else had a problem?
eddie

[This message has been edited by motorworks (edited 02-24-2004).]

John Stevenson
02-24-2004, 06:58 PM
Yes 35 other people.

CCWKen
02-24-2004, 09:53 PM
That's one of the reasons I use Paypal AND a credit card. No Paypal, No purchase. It's not 100% but at least you have some recourse.

Sending MOs or checks to a stranger is bad business.

By law, a seller has 30 days to ship and Ebay usually wants you to wait that long to file a complaint. Under the circumstances you describe, I would file now and give the "request for more $hipping" and feedback history as part of your concern.

You probably won't get your money back if the seller is NARU'ed but at least he'll be off the site.

Edit: Ops! I just checked his feedback. "Power Seller" with almost 20,000 sales! There's no chance Ebay will do anything about your problem. Sorry--You're SOL.

[This message has been edited by CCWKen (edited 02-24-2004).]

Paul Alciatore
02-24-2004, 10:01 PM
One of the great safeguards on E-Bay is the Feedback feature. I always check on a seller's feedback before bidding. E-Bay now puts a summary percentage right on the main listing page so you don't even have to click now.

A few negative comments now and again are almost certain to appear on sellers with high volume but beware if the positives are less than 90%. Most good ones are 95%, 98% positive or better.

What kind of co-ax do you need. I'm in electronics and may be able to find something in the scrap pile you can have for shipping.

Paul A.

debequem
02-24-2004, 10:42 PM
If the US Mail was used to send a money order and if the money order was a US Postal Money Order, could breach of contract between buyer and seller constitute mail fraud?

That is, if you use the Postal system to close a deal and the seller renigs after cashing that Postal Money order, is that mail Fraud?

If that angle could be used, he could be in real deep doodoo.

Marv

hornluv
02-25-2004, 02:21 AM
"If the US Mail was used to send a money order and if the money order was a US Postal Money Order, could breach of contract between buyer and seller constitute mail fraud?"

I think that is true, but not sure. I think that is why most buyers and seller prefer postal MO's if they are going to get one.

Stuart

Evan
02-25-2004, 02:57 AM
Don't think that could be considered fraud. The person who issues the money order would have to be the perpetrator of the fraud for it to be mail fraud, not the person who receives it. In this case the seller is not using the mail to defraud someone, he is using the internet.

ibewgypsie
02-25-2004, 06:57 AM
A couple years ago, this nice Jewish man living in a motel decided to get into the computer business. A power seller, Had 6 million dollars collected in ebay sales. Moved to Israel and people still have not gotten all thier money. Ohh, just to collect the interest on "YOUR" money for a while.

If it is a large amount I pick it up in person. I still bought a harley front wheel covered in blood that had been sold 3 times prior and once afterwards. (bad feedback surfaced after I purchased) All you need to sell something is a picture. All you need to collect is a lawyer and lots of time, lots of proof. Don't expect ebay to get out of sorts when you lose money, but let them be owed a few dollars at the end of the month. Another reason it had better be a good bargain, cause it is a gamble. No protection on less then $200 they tell you.

Ebay one month did double collections of Dues paid on sales. It was over a hundred dollars, when I tried to get the second money put back into my checking account I had to prove it. THEY HAD MY MONEY AND WOULD NOT GIVE IT BACK. I had to fax them copies of my bank account showing the double deduction. I also called the local police department out there and it did little good. I wonder how many stupid people didn't get thier money back cause they didn't notice. If they didn't say anything, they didn't get it back.

In the 80's I got ripped off by a well known CNC outfit in Arkansas. When I was local (was out riding my harley) they FED-Ex'ed the refund to my home the next day. Something about being pulled across a counter makes people listen. Ahh the troubles of Alcohol abuse and a violent nature. Now I am fatter older, Less violent and more of a victim. Plus I hate jail. And you do go to jail for teaching morals to people. It is wrong they tell me.

I now lock my doors at home. Lock up my workshop. Look at who I deal with. Good feedback is not perfect. I only have a 98.6% feedback, I am totally honest and have a clear concience.

wierdscience
02-25-2004, 10:02 PM
I always use postal money orders,they are after all insured.
I never use credit cards for ebay to many pit falls there.


I think I would,not ask,but DEMAND a refund or the feed back will get ugly.

CCWKen
02-25-2004, 11:11 PM
"If the US Mail was used to send a money order and if the money order was a US Postal Money Order, could breach of contract between buyer and seller constitute mail fraud?"

What fraud? Breach of contract is NOT fraud. You have to show that the seller had intent to defraud. So far, the seller is within the law. The "30 days" is key. If the item is not shipped by day 30, file a Non-Shipping Seller complaint with Ebay. I hope you kept a record of your MO and sent it Registered.

The seller could also be waiting for the MO to clear. The 30-day rule starts when he RECEIVES the money. It might be necessary for you to prove he received it!

I'm in a fix right now too. My bone-to-pick is with FedEx though. They show an item was delivered. NOT SO. It was not delived here and the signature on the tracking info is foreign to this address. (No such person)

The seller can "prove" he sent it with the tracking record. How do you show the tracking record is wrong? I'll be willing to bet the driver signed it and left it at the neighbor's place. This would have been the first delivery made by FedEx to this address. All the mailboxes (addresses) are on the same side of the road out here in the rural area. Easy mistake but I'm not confronting the neighbor. I'm still waiting to hear back from FedEx.

Evan
02-26-2004, 02:09 AM
In the US when something is sent by mail it is considered to be in the receivers hands as soon as it is mailed. You only have to prove you mailed it. Think tax filing.

CCWKen
02-27-2004, 01:45 AM
"In the US when something is sent by mail it is considered to be in the receivers hands as soon as it is mailed."

Not so. Title or ownership remains with the sender until delivery. Only then (subject to contract) does the transfer occur.

Think Package. That's why I, as a sender, always buy insurance. That's why I as a receiver (buyer) NEVER buy insurance. It's up to the sender to make sure it arrives. Ebay sellers have the concept all wrong.

The IRS, in essence, waives the deadline because it places full faith in the mail system as a government entity. This is NOT a UCC covered transaction. A sale of merchandise is.

Try expaining a late payment for credit card or mortgage payment. If you mail it on the due date, 99.9 to 1 you'll get a late charge.



[This message has been edited by CCWKen (edited 02-27-2004).]

Evan
02-27-2004, 03:25 AM
Ken,

There is a ton of case law that says that something properly addressed with proper postage affixed and mailed is presumed to be delivered, therefor in the hands of the receiver. Since it is prima facie not in the hands of the sender and it cannot be traced through the postal system it cannot be otherwise.

This does not apply to courier services.


See:

"The rule is well-settled that proof that a letter properly directed was placed in a post office creates a presumption that it reached its destination in usual time and was actually received by the person to whom it was addressed.”

http://www.kscourts.org/ca10/cases/1998/05/96-1304.rtf

wierdscience
02-27-2004, 09:18 PM
When I ship something out for a customer it is my responsiblity that it gets to them,not theirs,trust me I know.If it gets lost and there is no insurance it is still my responsibility.
I have to infact send out another item or refund their money including shipping.I have to deal with the insurance as this is not the customer's responsibility, nor can I make them wait till the insurance pays off unless it is my policy and they have a copy of it in writing.

Anyway if I ship something and it costs more than $10.00 I insure it and pay for a delivery confirmation,it only costs a buck.

motorworks
03-14-2004, 10:39 AM
800 watt came through.I got the co-ax and it is very good.Seems that he does not answer emails very often, but all else was ok.
Shipping was very slow.

J Tiers
03-14-2004, 11:29 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Evan:
Ken,

There is a ton of case law that says that something properly addressed with proper postage affixed and mailed is presumed to be delivered, therefor in the hands of the receiver. Since it is prima facie not in the hands of the sender and it cannot be traced through the postal system it cannot be otherwise.
http://www.kscourts.org/ca10/cases/1998/05/96-1304.rtf</font>


That can be true, but needn't be. Otherwise why the return receipt requested service?

Note that deliveries can be made in error (I get tons of mail for neighbors, which I have to deliver).
Mailboxes are on the outside of teh home, and may be rifled and things abstracted from them.
Cases of the postal delivery person simply dumping the mail and heading for the bar are not unknown.
We sometimes read in the paper about letters mailed (and postmarked) years ago (one was mailed in 1955 and delivered last year) being finally delivered, having been mislaid by the postal service in the intervening time.

So, when you send, YOUR DUTY is over. You cannot be faulted in any way as to deadlines, etc. As you said, think taxes.

But that is not the same as it being actually delivered to the addressee.

If you get a return receipt, with "deliver to addressee only" service, you have proof that the addressee actually got the article. Even the normal service that allows delivery to the addressee's agent is pretty darn good proof, requiring some serious explanation by the addressee.

It only costs a couple bucks to get definite proof.........



[This message has been edited by J Tiers (edited 03-14-2004).]

Rustybolt
03-14-2004, 11:48 AM
Guys. Once it's "postmarked" it is considered out of your hands and delivered.Anyone can claim something was mailed, but the postmark is legal proof that something was mailed.

Motor. All I can tell you is to take it up with ebay, and consider yourself lucky all it's costing is extra postage.
Someday I'll tell you the story of the $2000.00, three years and the rifle that was never delivered.

J Tiers
03-14-2004, 12:13 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Rustybolt:
Guys. Once it's "postmarked" it is considered out of your hands and delivered.Anyone can claim something was mailed, but the postmark is legal proof that something was mailed.
</font>

And the postmark is on the letter, which you don't have.

Registered or return receipt, anything to get the postmark ON A RECEIPT proves you mailed it.

Otherwise the proof only exists if the letter AND envelope is available. The recipient can't assert you missed the deadline without proof, which would be a postmark after that date.

I don't think that anywhere that a mere mailing receipt is "legal proof" of delivery on a specific date, nor even that the receipient ever got it. It IS proof that you did YOUR duty by mailing.

It may be a strong presumption that the item must have been delivered.

Evan
03-14-2004, 12:34 PM
It's called registered mail.

Smokedaddy
03-14-2004, 01:07 PM
I never purchase from a seller that has negative replies. &lt;duh&gt;

-SD:

motorworks
03-14-2004, 02:26 PM
GUYS I GOT THE CO-AX!!
AGAIN, THANKS
READ POST ABOVE