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sasquatch
11-13-2012, 01:29 PM
If you google "Tubal Cain Shaper" he has a vidoe on there in 3 parts about a small shop built shaper he was given and has it running. Unknown builder but this shaper is a work of art.

Peter.
11-13-2012, 01:39 PM
This one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxysfTM95t4

sasquatch
11-13-2012, 05:01 PM
That is the one Peter, thanks much for posting the link to it.

If only the machinist who built this would have stamped his name and date , location into it.

lane
11-13-2012, 06:20 PM
I saw that but like mine better.And I stamper and dated mine with name and address so 100 years from now some one will know who built it . and wonder about me.
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/Model%20Shaper/ModelShapersfinished010.jpg

bborr01
11-13-2012, 06:36 PM
That is one fine looking shaper Lane. One of the nicest model machines that I have seen. Our toolroom built some machines like that for retiring honcho's tbut they always painted them vista green. Yuck.

Brian

wawoodman
11-13-2012, 07:11 PM
Beautiful job, Lane. But I have to wonder about the quality of tools that you used, and that the unknown machinist had at his disposal, how many years ago...


Remember, everything that Fred Astaire did, Ginger Rogers did backwards, in high heels!

sasquatch
11-13-2012, 08:24 PM
If you notice at the end of the third video of it running Pete222 has it posted for sale, wonder if anyone has bought it?

The ratchet mechanisim for the crossfeed is quite impressive.

BigJohnT
11-13-2012, 08:42 PM
I saw that but like mine better.And I stamper and dated mine with name and address so 100 years from now some one will know who built it . and wonder about me.


Nice work... for a Louisiana boy. Never saw one like that on the rigs in the Gulf. Shiny Shiny! I did spend 1/2 my childhood in Metairie and Kenner and other Gulf coast areas... and the rest in Alaska.

Really impressive work!

John

sophijo
11-13-2012, 08:47 PM
Now that is pretty Lane! Nice job!

sasquatch
11-13-2012, 08:52 PM
Lane built a matching pair of these.

George Seal
11-14-2012, 12:27 AM
I don't know if anyone noticed but his shaper is running in reverse
ratchet mechinisem has it advancing on the cutting stroke. No movement on the return stroke

Atlas 7B owner

oldtiffie
11-14-2012, 01:46 AM
Is Tom Tom D. Walshaw (1912–1998) the nom de plume or alter ego of Tubal Cain or vice versa?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Walshaw

http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&rlz=1R2IRFC_enAU360&sclient=psy-ab&q=tubal+cain+machinist&rlz=1R2IRFC_enAU360&oq=tubal+cain&gs_l=hp.1.1.0l4.0.0.1.21873.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.l es%3B..0.0...1c.YoV3zMZZu_w&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=fc68565b8f52a8d8&bpcl=38626820&biw=1920&bih=884

dp
11-14-2012, 01:54 AM
Is Tom Tom D. Walshaw (19121998) the nom de plume or alter ego of Tubal Cain or vice versa?

Walshaw died in 1998 - no Youtube then.

oldtiffie
11-14-2012, 03:45 AM
Thanks Dennis.

A lot of people here seem(ed?) to think that TC was from and age of long ago - which it seems he was not (entirely?).

He wasn't just an old "machinist" who worked wonders in a small workshop the equivelent of an artist's garrett on the South Bank of the river Seine (Paris) either.

It seems that he had quite an array or resources over time and was a lot more academically qualified than a (mere?) "machinist".

His literary, mechanical and engineering skills were - and still are - outstanding.

lazlo
11-14-2012, 08:45 AM
A lot of people here seem(ed?) to think that TC was from and age of long ago - which it seems he was not (entirely?).

There have been at least three Tubal Cain's. The "Original" Tubal Cain from the old Model Engineer magazines. Then Tom Walshaw from rec.arts.metalworking, and now this gentleman: Pete222.


I don't know if anyone noticed but his shaper is running in reverse

Yep, I noticed that right away -- LOL :)

JCHannum
11-14-2012, 09:02 AM
The TC shaper is a neat little machine and Lane's is his usual beautiful work. In comparing the two, the TC is not that old, maybe 50's-60's vintage. I base that on the use of socket head cap screws. These were around previously, but I suspect an earlier builder would have used the more common HHCS's. Also, since the TC shaper was made from castings, the builder had a foundry available. Lane's is built from barstock and is a 1/4 scale working miniature of an actual machine.

It would not be too much of a stretch to surmise that the TC shaper could be either a prototype of a mini-shaper intended for the market that did not reach production or, perhaps, a casting set intended for the market as a kit that did not achieve wide distrubition.

As to the name Tubal Caine, as has been pointed out, that was the pen name of Tom Walshaw, who was a major contributor to Model Engineer. I don't fully understand why many of ME contributors used pen names, but they did. I feel it is somewhat shabby for someone to co-opt the name for a series of HSM oriented videos, no different than writing a series of bullfighting oriented books with the author name of Ernest Hemingway.

Rosco-P
11-14-2012, 11:40 AM
+1 on the above.
Could the shaper be a Lewis?

See no need for the recurring links to mrPete. While his videos have good production value and some good information, he's: a YouTube partner and derives an income from the traffic driven to his channel; sells DVD's; dislikes any comment that differs from his own and bans those that do. Reminds me of the typical shop teacher, always right, never wrong.

lazlo
11-14-2012, 01:50 PM
As to the name Tubal Caine, as has been pointed out, that was the pen name of Tom Walshaw, who was a major contributor to Model Engineer.

The "Tubal Cain" on rec.crafts.metalworking was Robert Bastow, who also died.

Amusing, since Tubal-Cain in the Book of Genesis is a blacksmith: the "forger of all instruments of bronze and iron" :D

oldtiffie
11-14-2012, 03:54 PM
Why do people take/use other well known people's "author" name? What good does it do them?

Assuming Tom Walshaw was the original machinist's nom-de-plume I'd have thought he had permanent rights to it - morally at least.

If others must see themselves as a resurrected TC why don't they at least call themselves TC2, TC3 etc.

It would be worse and more unseemly if they used the TC name while TW was still alive or not long dead.

It might not be so bad if some of the "copy cats" even came near to the skills of TW.

justanengineer
11-14-2012, 04:59 PM
Reminds me of the typical shop teacher, always right, never wrong.

But wrong a surprising amount considering his "following." Not to nitpick any individual, but he is one of the reasons why I suggest people wanting to learn something about the trades to read an old text. Most of those at least have been edited for correctness and more recent editions by editors and readers.

lazlo
11-14-2012, 05:23 PM
Why do people take/use other well known people's "author" name?

Dunno 'Tiff -- I think a lot of us are puzzled about that.

oldtiffie
11-14-2012, 05:28 PM
In the modern context it goes close to or is "identity theft".

Those who copy names etc. must have a huge opinion of themselves or "self-esteem" or "ego" problems.

oldtiffie
11-14-2012, 06:59 PM
Originally Posted by JCHannum

As to the name Tubal Caine, as has been pointed out, that was the pen name of Tom Walshaw, who was a major contributor to Model Engineer.

The "Tubal Cain" on rec.crafts.metalworking was Robert Bastow, who also died.

Amusing, since Tubal-Cain in the Book of Genesis is a blacksmith: the "forger of all instruments of bronze and iron" :D

And a bit more back-ground on Tubal Cain (Genesis) - from Wikipedia (where/what else?):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubal-cain

I am an ex-Naval Artificer and I certainly don't claim any connection to TC (Genesis) at all and I've never heard (of) an Artificer who has/did and certainly not to Tom Walshaw (the generally accepted "machinist" TC) either.

sasquatch
11-14-2012, 07:35 PM
Surely there is only ONE "Oldtiffie" ???

oldtiffie
11-14-2012, 08:20 PM
I'd hope so.

Mcgyver
11-15-2012, 09:16 AM
As to the name Tubal Caine, as has been pointed out, that was the pen name of Tom Walshaw, who was a major contributor to Model Engineer. I don't fully understand why many of ME contributors used pen names, but they did. I feel it is somewhat shabby for someone to co-opt the name for a series of HSM oriented videos, no different than writing a series of bullfighting oriented books with the author name of Ernest Hemingway.

Well said, it's bothered me as well. I strongly suspect the reason is ignorance; the current taker of the name just has no idea. Robert Bastow also took the name TC...but when it was pointed out to him he was taking a famous craftsman & author's name, he immediately changed his.....a gentleman and heck of a metalworker.

JCHannum
11-15-2012, 09:34 AM
If it is ignorance, which is quite possible, he has been using it long enough that it surely has been pointed out to him. In which case, he is not a gentleman.

I am not a big fan of videos for learning, I much prefer the printed word, so I have not watched any of his offerings in depth. I cannot offer any comments on the accuracy of what he presents, but, from what I have seen, I would think that most observers would be fast asleep before much information (or misinformation) was imparted.

tdkkart
11-15-2012, 09:52 AM
See no need for the recurring links to mrPete. While his videos have good production value and some good information, he's: a YouTube partner and derives an income from the traffic driven to his channel; sells DVD's; dislikes any comment that differs from his own and bans those that do. Reminds me of the typical shop teacher, always right, never wrong.


And also not so different from a large number of internet forum contributors on nearly every forum I've read, regardless of subject.
There's at least one on every forum, most of which spew information far more dangerous than mrpete.

How long do you supposes a teacher of any subject would survive without strong opinions??
Show a weak spot to teenagers and you'll get buried alive.

So he makes income from his musings?? Oh well, good for him if he can get away with it.
Would you rather he sell drugs to little kids on the street corner, or focus more of his video making talents on little boys??

sophijo
11-15-2012, 10:33 AM
I'm a fan. His videos have been helpful and I doubt there's a duplicitous bone in his body. However I saw recently, on Fox News, that he purchased a Learjet and is building a new home in Aspen; all off the income from Youtube!

Rosco-P
11-15-2012, 10:42 AM
Would you rather he sell drugs to little kids on the street corner, or focus more of his video making talents on little boys??

Must we detour down that road?? How is that relavent?

ikdor
11-15-2012, 02:53 PM
I rather enjoy his videos as well. I'am absolute beginner so I can learn quite a bit from them. I think his video on lathe tool sharpening is one of the best sources on the net. So what if not everything is absolutely correct, I came equipped with a brain.

Igor

lazlo
11-15-2012, 04:23 PM
Robert Bastow also took the name TC...but when it was pointed out to him he was taking a famous craftsman & author's name, he immediately changed his.....a gentleman and heck of a metalworker.

Wow, didn't know that -- class act! Rec.arts.metalworking was before my time. ;)

John Stevenson
11-15-2012, 05:14 PM
I'm a fan. His videos have been helpful and I doubt there's a duplicitous bone in his body. However I saw recently, on Fox News, that he purchased a Learjet and is building a new home in Aspen; all off the income from Youtube!

ROTFLMAO :o

Lazlo.

Robert Bastow was a gentleman and went by the title "Teenut" after the name change from Tubal Cain.
We had a few ding dongs in the time on RCM and it was a shame he got cancer and died.

Never met him, closest I came was posting him some engraving copy plates when i was over in CA .

oldtiffie
11-15-2012, 06:05 PM
Originally Posted by Mcgyver

Robert Bastow also took the name TC...but when it was pointed out to him he was taking a famous craftsman & author's name, he immediately changed his.....a gentleman and heck of a metalworker.

Wow, didn't know that -- class act! Rec.arts.metalworking was before my time. ;)

He couldn't have got too far from starting off/out before he either found out for himself or was "reminded/prompted" that he was in error ("intruding") - a quick search would have found it out.

Mcgyver
11-15-2012, 07:15 PM
He couldn't have got too far from starting off/out before he either found out for himself or was "reminded/prompted" that he was in error ("intruding") - a quick search would have found it out.

a search of what? this is late 90's we're talking in the case of Robert Bastow. The current taker of the name otoh is different. I do commend him for contributing and no doublt its helped people. Why hasn't he changed it? He doesn't seem like the type who's quest has pushed up tributaries of knowledge enough to have discovered who the real Tubal Cain is.... although someone must have pointed it out to him by now


Robert Bastow was a gentleman and went by the title "Teenut" after the name change from Tubal Cain.
We had a few ding dongs in the time on RCM and it was a shame he got cancer and died.

I can remember when the name change thing happened, funny the things you remember - before moving to the states he lived in Toronto for awhile and was I gather a popular TSME member. Didn't meet him before he moved to the US (and before i went to TSME) but sure enjoyed his communications on the major domo email list. He used to send me with various greetings to TSME people - back when being online was somewhat new.

I always considered him a very talented man (based on his posts), helpful, pleasant person and an entertaining writer. His stuff was fun to read.

oldtiffie
11-15-2012, 07:32 PM
Maybe so - but before email there were BBs's aplenty.

Failing that - when people actually wrote real letters (and posted them) - I'd be surprised if no one wrote and told him.

v860rich
11-15-2012, 10:35 PM
I have watched many of Tubal Cain's videos on u tube, some I've learned from and some I didn't, kinda like here!!!
On one of his earlier videos he explained where his "handle" came from, and it's from the biblical reference.
If someone were to tell me that there was another person whom had used the same "handle" as I do and I need to change mine, my response would be that I used it long before I ever used the computer so I don't see a need for a change.

THANX RICH

mf205i
11-15-2012, 11:03 PM
I don’t get it. Mr. Pete222 –Tubal Cain has a You Tube site that I can recommend to anyone that wants to learn about a subject that we obviously care about and that I know that the information presented is both useful and correct. A lot of his information is no longer being taught in public schools and he is offering a quality high school shop class to those that want to join us, FOR FREE. I challenge you to name one other site that is as useful and as valuable to someone that is just starting out and wants to share our interest. Have you seen the mass of incorrect crap on the Internet?
I don’t know what to tell you about the name. It seems that they all adopted a name that is older than all of us and a name that actually seems appropriate for their life’s work.
The man likes to make things and he repairs things that others throw away. He collects old tools, machinery, and tractors, he dislikes the safety Nazis and he teaches the uninformed. He is one of us, why the animosity?
Mike
BTW, I also put Jody, at welding tips and tricks, in the same category, as both can be trusted to provide useful and accurate information in a sea of otherwise often useless, incorrect, and unsafe crap.

sasquatch
11-16-2012, 08:23 AM
Have to agree, not many sites like his. Very good info for someone wishing to learn, and as stated, you sure as hell will NOT get that info in school!

I could care less what name he used, Elvis, Jesus, or even Santa, it is the info that is important , my point here originally was whoever built that little shaper did a decent job of it.

lynnl
11-16-2012, 09:08 AM
See no need for the recurring links to mrPete. While his videos have good production value and some good information, he's: a YouTube partner and derives an income from the traffic driven to his channel; sells DVD's; dislikes any comment that differs from his own and bans those that do. Reminds me of the typical shop teacher, always right, never wrong.

And how are you qualified to judge what/who is a typical shop teacher? Have you made it a life's study of what is typical and what is not typical of shop teachers?
It's a generally accepted assumption that in a classroom or most any other teaching/learning situation the teacher knows more than the teachee.

Frankly I think the mrpete, aka Tubal Cain shop videos are the very best I have seen on youtube, on any subject. No blaring music or background racket, and some obvious forethought in the preparation.
What's wrong with the fact that he earns money in the endeavor? Nothing sinful there! And certainly not out of the ordinary here for a link to be made to some product or service that incidentally in some way earns money.

As for squabbling over the name, I think that's a bit juvenile. If you're going to select a name, say "Neptune" in some maritime or marine venture for example, it's unreasonable to think no one else will ever have the same idea.

Rosco-P
11-16-2012, 09:34 AM
And how are you qualified to judge what/who is a typical shop teacher? Have you made it a life's study of what is typical and what is not typical of shop teachers?
It's a generally accepted assumption that in a classroom or most any other teaching/learning situation the teacher knows more than the teachee.

Frankly I think the mrpete, aka Tubal Cain shop videos are the very best I have seen on youtube, on any subject. No blaring music or background racket, and some obvious forethought in the preparation.

And you're qualified to judge MrPete's videos as the "best" on YouTube based on what credentials?
When was the last time you were in school, took a shop class or a night school Vocational or Technical School class?
Ever heard the phrase, "Those that can...do and those that can't...teach."? I can attest that every one of my night school instructors has had many years in industry. Can't say the same about many of the shop teacher I've had in high school.

Oh! It isn't animosity, if your video content if good, no need for name recognition, just being mrPete should be sufficient.

lynnl
11-17-2012, 09:15 AM
And you're qualified to judge MrPete's videos as the "best" on YouTube based on what credentials?
.

Let's deal with what I actually said, not how you choose to interpret it in order to form a counter response.
What I said was (and I'll copy and paste), "Frankly I think the mrpete, aka Tubal Cain shop videos are the very best I have seen on youtube, on any subject."

My statement ("I think...") merely reflects my assessment, my judgement, my opinion,etc. It makes no claim as to an absolute evaluation of the videos.

John Stevenson
11-17-2012, 09:19 AM
Girls, girls, now then.

Next thing it will be handbags at 20 paces at dawn........................

lynnl
11-17-2012, 11:56 AM
Another word out of you John, and I'll smite you with my umbrella!

dp
11-17-2012, 04:43 PM
MrPete222, aka mrpete2, pete22, tubalcain, and others is Lyle Peterson of Streator, Ill. He's not hard to find.

http://machineshoptips.004150.com/login/articles/145?topic=31
http://www.ratemyteachers.com/lyle-peterson/806105-t
http://myworld.ebay.com/mrpete2?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

In 1952 a B-17 crashed near the Tubal Cain Mine in Washington State:
http://members.peak.org/~mikey/746/index.htm

Lots of folks have use the moniker over time. MrPete222 is actually aka tubalcain with no space, so is differentiated to some degree from other adoptions of the nick.

oldtiffie
11-17-2012, 05:47 PM
Girls, girls, now then.

Next thing it will be handbags at 20 paces at dawn........................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjZdBsEUD-8

TRX
11-19-2012, 07:54 AM
> There's at least one on every forum

Anyone else remember "altavoz", from the rec.metalworking newsgroup?

J Harp
11-19-2012, 11:04 AM
Back to the shaper. It seems to me that the return stroke is quicker than the cutting stroke. That would indicate that the shaper is running in the proper direction.

If the feed is wrong, it could be because the connecting rod is attached to the wrong side of the driving disc.

dp
11-19-2012, 11:24 AM
Back to the shaper. It seems to me that the return stroke is quicker than the cutting stroke. That would indicate that the shaper is running in the proper direction.

If the feed is wrong, it could be because the connecting rod is attached to the wrong side of the driving disc.

In the third video you can see the cross feed thread is turning just at the very end of the reverse stroke and has stopped moving as the forward stroke begins. As it should. Watch the ratchet pawls, too. They are moving and timed correctly. That, BTW, is a damn clever ratchet. It suffers a problem many shapers have in that the feed length per stroke is inconsistent owing to the pawl missing a tooth from time to time. The drive shiv will turn opposite the bull gear which it does.

My Atlas shaper had a timing problem with the feed and it was an interesting exercise getting it corrected. It is definitely possible to get it out of time during assembly, and 180 out by poor practice.

AlanHaisley
11-19-2012, 03:05 PM
Back to the shaper. It seems to me that the return stroke is quicker than the cutting stroke. That would indicate that the shaper is running in the proper direction.

If the feed is wrong, it could be because the connecting rod is attached to the wrong side of the driving disc.

The quick return mechanism in a shaper will return quicker than the forward stroke no matter which way the motor turns.

Optics Curmudgeon
11-19-2012, 06:15 PM
The quick return mechanism in a shaper will return quicker than the forward stroke no matter which way the motor turns.
Not on the kind being discussed here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPwoxIEkG4s
http://www.neme-s.org/shapers/columns/shaper_column_04.html

oldtiffie
11-19-2012, 07:27 PM
Originally Posted by AlanHaisley

The quick return mechanism in a shaper will return quicker than the forward stroke no matter which way the motor turns.


Not on the kind being discussed here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPwoxIEkG4s
http://www.neme-s.org/shapers/columns/shaper_column_04.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Shaper.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaper#Operation

dneufell
08-21-2013, 02:13 AM
Sorry I am late to the party......." Elvis, Jesus, or even Santa". I'm with sasquatch :) :) :0)

sasquatch
08-21-2013, 08:52 AM
Been some time since i posted that topic about that little shaper, i thought a number would enjoy seeing/reading about.
Interesting how the other half jump on postings with negative comments., i see this often on forums.

Black Forest
08-21-2013, 09:19 AM
Lane you needn't worry. We sometimes wonder about you right now!

jhe.1973
08-21-2013, 01:00 PM
Hi Everyone,

The Tubal Cain shaper on You Tube bears a striking resemblance to one my dad had in the back room of his last shop - the one I learned in & worked in during & after high school.

He had told me that he got the shaper when he bought all of our family doctor's tools when the Dr. passed away. My dad kept what he wanted/needed & sold off the rest to help pay for everything.

The Dr. got interested in machining as a stress relieving hobby after being exposed to my dad's shop.

I remember my dad saying he often felt awkward when the Dr. called him asking him to stop at the office & talk shop while there were people in the waiting area.

Yep, its a sickness alright!

Having had an established practice, the Dr. had the means to buy whatever he wanted/needed & he did. I'm still using his L&W dividing head & 17 inch Delta drill press that came down to me from my dad.

But I digress.

IIRC my dad did a few things to finish the shaper, but the build was started by the Dr. who bought the castings as part of a kit.

This would have been back in the 50s and my dad said you could buy castings for all sorts of smaller machines & finish them yourself.

Again, IIRC the back pages of the do-it-yourself magazines of the day had ads for things like this.

So, while I can't zero in on who built the shaper, I think I have a good idea as to where the castings came from.

alanganes
08-21-2013, 09:32 PM
a search of what? this is late 90's we're talking in the case of Robert Bastow. The current taker of the name otoh is different. I do commend him for contributing and no doublt its helped people. Why hasn't he changed it? He doesn't seem like the type who's quest has pushed up tributaries of knowledge enough to have discovered who the real Tubal Cain is.... although someone must have pointed it out to him by now



I can remember when the name change thing happened, funny the things you remember - before moving to the states he lived in Toronto for awhile and was I gather a popular TSME member. Didn't meet him before he moved to the US (and before i went to TSME) but sure enjoyed his communications on the major domo email list. He used to send me with various greetings to TSME people - back when being online was somewhat new.

I always considered him a very talented man (based on his posts), helpful, pleasant person and an entertaining writer. His stuff was fun to read.

I recall all of the grousing that led up to his taking on the name "Teenut" as well. I may be recalling this incorrectly, but I think he originally always went by "tubal cain" in all lower case letters specifically in an attempt to avoid the appearance that he was trying to claim to be "the" Tubal Cain of Model Engineer fame. The distinction was apparently a bit too subtle for many folks, so being the sort of guy he was he changed to using "Teenut."

Last time I checked, there were still a handful of folks on RCM that raise a distributed beer in his honor on date of his death.