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View Full Version : My Shop is a Pole Barn, Need Suggestions for Interior



toolmaker76
11-14-2012, 09:01 PM
My shop is actually a pole building, wood posts, 2 x 6 stringers with corrugated metal on the exterior, normal pole barn stuff. The roof is a bit unusual in that I had some salvaged metal trusses that were given to me. They were set on top of the poles, and then I bolted 2 x 8's flat on the top of them, and run 2 x 6's upright across the top of them, then used the corrugated metal to cover the top of them. The ends are wood framed, with 3 trusses in the center of the building 12' apart. It makes for a nice 30 x 48' building.

When built I needed a quick building, so there is no insulation as of yet. I am now wanting to finish the inside and wondering the best way to go about it. What I would like to do is to use the corrugated metal on the inside of the building as well, with insulation between the two sheets of metal. Just wondering if anyone else has tried this?

I have seen a couple of (commercial) garages that used the white metal on the interior of the building, roof included. It would be a bit more expensive than OSB, but by the time you seal and paint, probably would not be that much more when labor is considered.

When conditions are right and the metal is cold from the outside, I will have it "rain" on the inside of the building. I would hope that the inner layer of metal being insulated from the outer layer would reduce this (having a heated building would help,too). There is a vent at the peak that runs along the length of the building; I am hoping that lowering the ceiling on the interior to keep the bottom of the vent above the top of the insulation, along with the ridges from the corrugated exterior walls, would allow ventilation between the inner and outer walls.

Haven't been able to find much info on this stuff yet, just wondered what others would think of this or if anyone else has done it? Thanks!

1-800miner
11-14-2012, 09:38 PM
You don't say how tall the building is. If it were me, I would stand sheets of plywood upright(eight feet tall) on the lower part of the wall, then tin up higher.
That way you have lots of nailing surface for shelves or hanging stuff.
My Quonset hut had similar issues. It only stood ten feet tall so I built five foot high stub walls with railroad ties on four foot centers.
Worked perfect. It got the building tall enough to be usable and I made shelves between the r.r. ties from two by eights.
Both walls are solid shelves fifty feet long.
I insulated the roof and added an inner layer of corrugated tin. Had to cover the Styrofoam insulation,to keep the birds from pecking the stuff.
Threw a swamp cooler on top and it stays 70-80 degrees inside while 110 outside. The back half is two story and the upstairs does get too warm on hot days.

Johnh57
11-14-2012, 10:27 PM
Commercial metal buildings are insulated (typically) with wide vinyl faced insulation. 0.0032 vinyl is the cheapest and is a PITA to work with - it tears easily. WMP-VR is a kraft backed reinforced vinyl faced insulation facing and is a pretty good product. You can usually order Metal Building Insulation in any width up to about 5' or 6' and whatever lengths you need and with whatever tabs you need (The facing is typically wider than the actual itch to allow taping or stapling joints.) Lamtec is probably the biggest facing manufacturer (http://www.lamtec.com/lamtec_product_wmpvr.html) They have many types of facing with a wide range of costs.


Typically the stuff is secured at the base, pulled up tight and secured at the eaves - then the wall sheets are installed - trapping the insulation is place. The roof is similar, the insulation is laid out, then roofed over. Since you are essentially retrofitting you''ll need some other way to secure the insulation. Most of the suppliers for Metal Building Insulation will have some sort of adhesive backed stick pin with a metal washer that you can use. Dynamic Fasteners catalog shows them on pg 61 (http://www.dynamicfastener.com/handguide12/fIRST_HALF.pdf) I'm not a huge fan of adhesives (they seem to only stick when you don't want them to) but if you insulate, secure it well, and then go over it with liner panel/plywood or something it'll probably stay put.

Interior metal liner panels are also readily available. Most any metal building co or panel supplier would have them. They usually are a little lighter gauge than the exterior panels and, if coated, they won't have exterior use warranties on the coatings.

gvasale
11-15-2012, 07:35 AM
Any flooring in there yet? Lots of moisture comes up from the ground when there is no floor.

JoeLee
11-15-2012, 08:24 AM
If condensation is going to be a problem your going to need to run a good size dehumidifier.

JL............

bborr01
11-15-2012, 08:27 AM
I talked to a few insulation contractors last year at a local home show about how to insulate my steel truss/steel sided barn. They all told me to have the inside of the metal siding sprayed with foam insulation to prevent sweating, then insulate with either blown in or bats of insulation.

Brian

wierdscience
11-15-2012, 08:35 AM
x'2 for plywood for the first 8' and then spray foam for the rest.

After the foam paint it stark white and you will need less lights.

vpt
11-15-2012, 08:55 AM
My shop is kind of half and half. It has normal walls but the ceiling has pole building spacing. I ran 2x4 stringers between the trusses so that normal sized insulation would fit in nicely.

I have also seen the metal on the inside like you mentioned. But what I don't like about it is how hard it is to work with for putting in outlets, wall hangings, or any simple add ons/customization after the fact.

After that I just drywalled over, no sealing, no paint, didn't see the need.

I made a thread when I started the drywall here: http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/45128-OT-drywalling-ceiling-no-drywall-jack-no-problem

vpt
11-15-2012, 08:57 AM
x'2 for plywood for the first 8' and then spray foam for the rest.

After the foam paint it stark white and you will need less lights.


One of the companies we work with had the spray foam done about 10-15 years ago. They had to tear down the entire ceiling of the3 shop to replace the wood from rot. They say no more spray foam for any of their buildings.

wierdscience
11-15-2012, 09:03 AM
One of the companies we work with had the spray foam done about 10-15 years ago. They had to tear down the entire ceiling of the3 shop to replace the wood from rot. They say no more spray foam for any of their buildings.

They had water getting in somewhere I'd bet,screw holes are the most likely if a metal roof.If water is getting in all bets are off regardless of what isulation choice is made.

gizmo2
11-15-2012, 09:09 AM
Pole Dancers!

vpt
11-15-2012, 09:21 AM
They had water getting in somewhere I'd bet,screw holes are the most likely if a metal roof.If water is getting in all bets are off regardless of what isulation choice is made.

It was from condensation building up from the inside of the building.

SteveF
11-15-2012, 09:50 AM
It was from condensation building up from the inside of the building.

A potential problem with some closed cell spray foams is that if the operator doesn't set the mixture right and spray the foam right, after the initial expansion of the foam, it will then condense as it cools and solidifies and can pull away from whatever it was sprayed against. This leaves voids that become cold and then condensation can happen. I was watching for this when I had my attic done and the next day used cans of Great Stuff to fill in some gaps.

Steve

outlawspeeder
11-15-2012, 10:05 AM
You can keep some of the “rain” out by venting fan running no stop. This is not a good fix but it will help stop the rust monster from eating the machines as fast.

I have an old house heater with forced air in my barn. The hardest part of that was getting it up in the rafters. It is an oil burner feed by a 250 Gal tank. Delivery is once or twice a year and I run my tractor from it too. Running the heater this stops the rain and is enough to heat my barn in the winter to 70 deg without insulation.

Pole barns mean pole mice. Yes they are the pole dances. They love the foam for nesting. Once they get in to it, it is like a gerbil tube but you can’t see inside. All you know is there little pieces of foam and what looks like black rice. Hahaha

The other problem with foam is you still have hot and cold. You need an R value greater than 12 or you still have the rain but it will be above the foam. That is how the wood riots. This will also make mold.

toolmaker76
11-15-2012, 10:09 AM
Thanks for the replies! Actually sort of long range planning as I don't have any concrete yet. My wall height will probably wind up something like 11'. I think my initial intention was to use drywall or maybe OSB, but I have to say I like the looks of the interior metal buildings that I have seen.

I have a section that is 12 x 30' where I put in a raised floor (wood joists) over a 6mil plastic vapor barrier. I separated this from the rest of the shop to do some assembly work for one of my customers. I am thinking (as I don't have the funds for concrete yet) that I may try and do some finish work in this section (and move my benchtop machinery in this section, and GET SOME HEAT)! My initial plan was to stud it 16" on centers and put in drywall- but on second thought, the studs don't really add anything structurally, so would be a waste of money. I could put up stringers and put metal over those, less wood in the long run.

My hope was that metal on the inside would prevent interior air from condensing on the interior of the outside metal. I didn't have the funds to insulate when I built the building, but am wishing now I had!

Johnh57
11-15-2012, 10:57 AM
To prevent condensation on the inside face of the outside sheathing you have to have a good vapor barrier on the heated side. Whatever panel you end up using inside won't really matter - but your insulation has to be done well - paying particular attention to the vapor barrier.

Butler used to void any sheeting warranties if the customer used spray foam insulation. Voids and thin coatings over corners and edges can lead to rust on the interior faces of the exterior panels. Like anything else - properly done and its fine, done wrong it's a disaster.

gvasale
11-15-2012, 01:12 PM
Right now, if you can't insulate, I think you better ventilate.

toolmaker76
11-16-2012, 02:00 AM
Right now, if you can't insulate, I think you better ventilate.

Sounds like a good plan to initiate!

bandsawguy
11-17-2012, 07:07 AM
I just did the interior of my shop with steel. Looks great nice and bright. The best part is you order the sheets to the length you need. So you could order 11' and have no seam. Outlets are a pain. If you are rewiring leave some room to move the outlets and switch boxes over if they land on a rib otherwise you can't put the cover on. I had to move most of mine over. Sure goes up quick and once its up there is no painting. Also since liner steel is usually thinner then exterior its pretty easy to find a stud if you need to put a screw in. Just press with your finger and you can feel if the stud is behind it. Another thing is to make sure the overlap of the sheets is done right. From one direction they are obvious but from the opposite they disappear. I did mine so when you walk in you don't see any seams but if you go to the bacl of the shop and look out the door you can see them.

mattinker
11-17-2012, 08:16 AM
Hi,

I insulated my workshop with fridge truck panels. A friend of mine works selling refrigerated truck bodies. When they do accident repair work, (oops it didn't get under the bridge stuff) they have to replace whole panels. The panels are a sandwich of polyester and polyurethane foam with I don't know what special gasses to improve the insulation.. The trucks are used at -18C so they are pretty efficient. He would call me when they had a rebuild and I would cut it up and bring it home free! The white polyester is a good finished surface, some of them have a "skin" of stainless steel on the inside, so I have made insulated reinforced doors.

Regards, Matthew

Johnh57
11-17-2012, 11:30 AM
For electrical - use surface mounted metal conduit. Clean, neat and you can get to it anywhere, anytime. A little more expensive than romex - but makes for a much nicer finish product imho.

toolmaker76
11-17-2012, 02:26 PM
I just did the interior of my shop with steel. Looks great nice and bright. The best part is you order the sheets to the length you need. So you could order 11' and have no seam.

I was hoping to find someone who had actually done it! Ordering to the correct length has been a plus! Figured I could go a number of ways on the outlets- as I am using the building I have some in place, and I don't really want to change that. Figured I would just make some kind of plate/adapter to make them work.

I was wondering how it works for moisture. I would think that the metal on the inside would be a vapor barrier itself, especially once the interior has heat. Also, if the ceiling is metal, it flies in the face of conventional where the ceiling doesn't have a vapor barrier allowing moisture to move to a ventilated (but unheated) area.

kendall
11-17-2012, 03:28 PM
On the last pole barn I built I stapled plastic sheeting to the walls, put OSb around the first 4ft, then cheap drywall from there up.
There's a styrofoam company nearby that sells a truckload of scraps for $20-$30 I bought three truckloads, then borrowed a friends wood chipper and shredded the foam for use between the interior and exterior walls. No idea what the actual R value was, but the poles were 8x6 and I figured 8 inches of shredded styrofoam was good.

The roof, since you have purlins and rafters, I'd go with roll insulation between the rafters, with a trough either cardboard or the molded styrofam type to keep it off the roof, and cover the purlins. Vent the ridge and eaves to allow moisture to escape.
Would have made insulation easier if you'd have reversed the method with the boards on the trusses standing on edge. (and a stronger roof if I'm reading " with 3 trusses in the center of the building 12' apart " right., 12ft is an extremely long span for a flat 2x8)

Dr Stan
11-17-2012, 07:35 PM
I was thinking more along the lines of a recliner, a 50" plasma flat screen, and a kegerator. :)