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Dr Stan
11-26-2012, 08:46 PM
Well this will stir the pot, but so be it. The well respected German magazine Der Spiegel recently published an article "Notes on the decline of a great nation". The opening paragraph reads:

"The United States is frittering away its role as a model for the rest of the world. The political system is plagued by an absurd level of hatred, the economy is stagnating and the infrastructure is falling into a miserable state of disrepair. On this election eve, many Americans are losing faith in their country's future."

The full article is available at: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/divided-states-of-america-notes-on-the-decline-of-a-great-nation-a-865295.html

I believe it is well written and needs to be read by any & everyone, but especially those who are involved in business & industry.

Bob Fisher
11-26-2012, 09:42 PM
You are preaching to the choir ! I know that most of us are "older"and remember when made in the USA stamped on a tool meant quality. Our best days are behind us . We have become a nation of consumers, not producers. The recent election is painful evidence of the mentality of the nation. I'm not trying to pour gas on the fire, but I , myself, have little hope left that things will change. Bob.

dp
11-26-2012, 09:53 PM
Dr. Pielke Jr has been presenting some very interesting posts on the subject of our economy, the global economy, and of greater topical interest, the way manufacturing is playing or not playing a part in the politics and policies.

Here's a starter - he doesn't tag posts so you'll have to search on terms common to manufacturing, wages, labor, etc., to locate the rest. The series started about a year ago and I've posted many links at PM in the political forum. http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-end-of-economic-growth.html

One thing Pielke has been doing is seeking comments regarding solutions as opposed to flogging the distractions of labor/management wars, and he also recognizes we have all but lost our manufacturing ecosystem (interlinked complexities above and beyond infrastructure).

We need to recognize there is no such political forum here and avoid taking this too far. The solutions side of this topic are of great interest to me but it seems inevitable the flogging of idioms drives the conversation.

goose
11-26-2012, 09:59 PM
Read the article, it's predictable garbage. Liberal boilerplate. Reads like it was written by Chris Matthews with Paul Krugman filling in blanks with bogus statistics. Or perhaps was written by the guy who wrote the Hitler Diaries?

Dr Stan
11-26-2012, 10:23 PM
You are preaching to the choir ! I know that most of us are "older"and remember when made in the USA stamped on a tool meant quality. Our best days are behind us . We have become a nation of consumers, not producers. The recent election is painful evidence of the mentality of the nation. I'm not trying to pour gas on the fire, but I , myself, have little hope left that things will change. Bob.

Bob,

I believe the two of us have come to the same conclusion from differing political/philosophical positions. One difference I do not believe the most recent election "is painful evidence of the mentality of the nation", but it happened in 1980. After that making anything, or providing a needed service just did not matter. It was and is all about making the all mighty dollar.

DP is very correct that "We need to recognize there is no such political forum here and avoid taking this too far. The solutions side of this topic are of great interest to me but it seems inevitable the flogging of idioms drives the conversation."

One of the major points of the article is the lack of being able to work together for the good of the country.

mike4
11-26-2012, 10:31 PM
Politicians are for the most only interested in toeing the party line and getting re-elected , most do not give a fig about the country or its ability to manufacture products from its own resources.

Accountants and financial advisers are only interested in the quick dollar , having money tied up in machinery is foreign to them , to me its an investment in the future , at least I can repair most things by making parts .

Also someone had better get a BIG shovel ready , this is likely to start a ****e storm.

Michael

smalltime
11-26-2012, 10:33 PM
Well this will stir the pot, but so be it. The well respected German magazine Der Spiegel recently published an article "Notes on the decline of a great nation". The opening paragraph reads:

"The United States is frittering away its role as a model for the rest of the world. The political system is plagued by an absurd level of hatred, the economy is stagnating and the infrastructure is falling into a miserable state of disrepair. On this election eve, many Americans are losing faith in their country's future."

The full article is available at: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/divided-states-of-america-notes-on-the-decline-of-a-great-nation-a-865295.html

I believe it is well written and needs to be read by any & everyone, but especially those who are involved in business & industry.

The absolute LAST place I'm going to go to read about my country's political and economic health is "Der Spiegel".

Next thing you know, you'll be spouting the praises of the French economy and all it has to offer.

wierdscience
11-26-2012, 10:42 PM
No mention in the article that German debt to GDP has risen from 65% in 2006 to 83% in 2011 and is slated to top that this year.
Also no mention that our Treasury has devalued our currency not once,not twice,but three times buying European debt and backing the Euro.

But the real admission in the article was there-

"Nevertheless, "decline" is a big word, especially for a nation that is still the world's number one economic and military power, and will remain so for at least the next decade. It's also a country whose innovative energy seems unbroken in many fields, and one that, unlike Europe, has balanced population growth and enormous mineral resources. In fact, when it comes to the demise of former world powers, Europe's decline is much more evident than that of the United States."

It's there,Germany and the rest of Europe need to read it.Europe did everything the author suggested was right and virtuous and yet he admits Europe is further along in it's decline than we are.And the band played on-

KiddZimaHater
11-26-2012, 10:59 PM
The majority of Americans are now in a state of Dependency, not Productivity.

Deja Vu
11-26-2012, 11:10 PM
The majority of Americans are now in a state of Dependency, not Productivity.
100% of Americans are now in a state of dependency....they always have been. We just fool ourselves by thinking otherwise.

Dr Stan
11-26-2012, 11:33 PM
The absolute LAST place I'm going to go to read about my country's political and economic health is "Der Spiegel".

Next thing you know, you'll be spouting the praises of the French economy and all it has to offer.

Well I so glad you & Goose can be so Provencal and refuse to accept the concept that good ideas are not limited to the US. You would have benefited from a hitch in the US military as I did and had the opportunity to see other parts of the world.

Go back and actually read what DP posted. Mud slinging will accomplish nothing and is simply akin to Nero's playing the fiddle as Rome burned.

A.K. Boomer
11-26-2012, 11:49 PM
Yeah - this topics going to last... :rolleyes:

Willy
11-26-2012, 11:57 PM
Yeah - this topics going to last... :rolleyes:

Anything past 7:00 AM EST is doubtful.

Mike Amick
11-27-2012, 12:09 AM
Time to wake up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8AxeKG60ws

bborr01
11-27-2012, 12:23 AM
When dad (George) wakes up and sees this thread he won't likely be happy. Just sayin.

Brian

A.K. Boomer
11-27-2012, 12:28 AM
In a mechanical sense - how do you stop a swinging pendulum in the middle - You know - at maximum velocity, yet more where it needs to be.

lazlo
11-27-2012, 12:38 AM
Time to wake up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8AxeKG60ws

Wow, heavy. Everyone should watch that.

beanbag
11-27-2012, 07:57 AM
heh heh, that's the thing with politics. Everybody thinks that whatever they think is good for everybody else.

IMO that German article blames all our problems on not being democrat enough, e.g. big government programs. And lack of unity? I think he should be glad because the only time Americans are united is when we are going to Kick Some Ass.

The liberals are going to think that liberal values make America great, and conservatives are going to think that conservative values are the way to go.

IMHO, the greatness of a nation should be measured by some combination of:
A) Its contribution to make the rest of the world a better place
B) Whether its citizens live happy lives
C) Ability to kick ass if required

and not some dumb metric like dead babies or literacy rate.