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Bill736
12-04-2012, 08:28 PM
There's been a lot of confusion as to when certain wattage incandescent bulbs will no longer be available.
According to an article I read yesterday in a consumer magazine, this month ( Dec.) is the last month that 75 watt incandescent bulbs will be legal to make or sell, except for bulbs already in stock ( in the USA). I still have a few uses for incandescent bulbs , such as for heating, and for light fixtures that are on dimmer circuits. My experience with diming compact fluorescents has been quite bad. I just had another compact fluorescent go bad in my basement. Something started to smell acrid, like a leaking can of paint. Then the smell became worse, and I noticed that the 60 watt ( equivalent) compact fluorescent was burned out, and smoking . It was very hot, turning black , and smelled up the whole basement and garage. That's the second one that has failed in that mode. The bulb was in an open face reflector fixture, pointed horizonally, which should have been easy duty. It was a Sylvania brand, but I've had at least 5 compact fluorescents go bad early, or buzz loudly, of different brands. They're also dumbing down the technical specs on the bulbs, and it's hard to determine color rendering numbers and even color temperature in some cases. So, I've bought some compact fluorescent that are simply not suitable for my applications. Given the lack of specs., and the high failure rate, I doubt that I've saved any money using them yet.

sasquatch
12-04-2012, 08:39 PM
Bill here in Ontario, Canada, i believe the deadline on these bulbs was cancelled or at least delayed for awhile.
One large retailer here brought in triple the stock he usually carries, and they were selling like hotcakes, but unless it has changed again , last i heard it is off for now.
( I bought up a bit of "Stock" also to keep on hand.)

danlb
12-04-2012, 08:42 PM
I just looked at Wiki, and it seems that the regulations cover lights from 40 to 100 watts. Rough use, 3way and appliance bulbs are exempt. So there are still alternatives.

I have had similar problems with some CFLs. The bulb may be fine but the electronics fried.

I have a few LED bulbs, but the wife prefers the look of the "reveal" bulbs so we use those in most places. There are a few that I'd really like to set up with commercial LED "bulbs", but the use of remote switches (X10) makes them flicker when off. CFLs have the same problem. I can alter the X10 switch devices but I'm feeling lazy.

Dan

sasquatch
12-04-2012, 08:50 PM
I buy rough service bulbs anyway for everything. The regulars i found are just too IFFY on life span.

J Tiers
12-04-2012, 09:12 PM
I have had similar problems with some CFLs. The bulb may be fine but the electronics fried.


Dan

"Electronics fried"............ And maybe took the bulb out too......

These are Home Dupe-you house brand, made, or at least imported by Feit Electric. I would advise you avoid these, they tend to spit out red hot particles when they fail.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/jstanley/burntCFL6.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/jstanley/burntCFL5.jpg

wierdscience
12-04-2012, 11:28 PM
I banned CF bulbs in my house about this time last year so it's only fitting.

http://lightbulb.aerolights.com/viewitems/aero-tech-bulbs-made-in-the-usa-20-000-hours/-a-series-light-bulbs-made-in-the-usa-20-000-hours?

Jaakko Fagerlund
12-04-2012, 11:58 PM
Just waiting when someone starts selling 75 W "heat globes" that have a side effect of sending light.

J Tiers
12-05-2012, 12:09 AM
I banned CF bulbs in my house about this time last year so it's only fitting.



Oh, we don't ban them at my place, I've been using them for at least 20 years, and some of the very first ones we bought are still in service. The newer types were dropping like flies, until we started buying name brands..... Sylvania and good ol' "Generous Electric"...... They still have failed in a couple cases, but without the lightshow... they just quit. And these last a lot longer.

Those "Feit Electric" CFL units that the Home Dupe-you had were total crap.

With the old ones, and all but the junk ones, we surely have been liking the savings we get, for the last 20 years.

Don't run and hide from them, just buy decent ones. They are more efficient than LEDs or incandescent, cost a LOT less, and the light is better than LEDs, essentially same as incandescent. (Decent LED lamps are extremely expensive here)

lakeside53
12-05-2012, 01:43 AM
I use Rough service bulbs because it stopped SWMBO complaining ;) They don't hum when dimmed, and they have lasted a very long time. My 1994 remodel bulbs are all still in use, every day. Uh oh... Probably jinxed that now... lol.

A.K. Boomer
12-05-2012, 01:57 AM
I have had great luck with almost all mine, think Iv only had one fry in the house, and I use them as a rough service in the garage and they outlast the IC rough service drastically, think iv had the same CF bulb in my trouble light for over 3 years - that's a minor little miracle in itself,,

the thing that finally seems to get them in my trouble light is the base separates (after dropping them on the floor for years..)

I wonder if the LED for a trouble light would be even more durable because I have broken the tubes in the CF's also...

Jaakko Fagerlund
12-05-2012, 02:28 AM
And I've yet to find a reasonable prices CF lamp in E27 socket that would last outside for more than a week. And by outside I mean right now outside, in the -25 Celsius weather. Ordinary 60W light bulbs could easily last years.

wierdscience
12-05-2012, 02:49 AM
Oh, we don't ban them at my place, I've been using them for at least 20 years, and some of the very first ones we bought are still in service. The newer types were dropping like flies, until we started buying name brands..... Sylvania and good ol' "Generous Electric"...... They still have failed in a couple cases, but without the lightshow... they just quit. And these last a lot longer.

Those "Feit Electric" CFL units that the Home Dupe-you had were total crap.

With the old ones, and all but the junk ones, we surely have been liking the savings we get, for the last 20 years.

Don't run and hide from them, just buy decent ones. They are more efficient than LEDs or incandescent, cost a LOT less, and the light is better than LEDs, essentially same as incandescent. (Decent LED lamps are extremely expensive here)

Jerry,the only ones I have left are the first very old ones.ALL of the newer ones regardless of brand have failed,many within a couple of months.I used to keep my sales ticket and bring them back for a refund/exchange,now I don't waste my time anymore.
A good rough service US made light bulb like the ones I linked too are $2 ea,use far less energy to mfg,always light right up and I flat see better.
By rough estimate I have probably spent $300 in the CF bulb fallacy in the past five years.If I had just kept buying IC bulbs I would be money ahead and wasted less time.

I will not go back to CF bulbs unless someone makes them with a quality ballast and a quality REPLACEABLE bulb.

HSS
12-05-2012, 07:21 AM
Thanks for the info Weirdscience, I just ordered a supply from Aero and put the address in my favs.

Patrick

J Tiers
12-05-2012, 08:27 AM
Weird....

I don't know what you are doing, but my longest lasting CFL is probably 15 yo now, could be older, and I have not replaced one for several months, despite the fact that we have probably got 25 of them in use. There are probably more, I doubt I remembered them all as I just did a quick mental count of them.


And I've yet to find a reasonable prices CF lamp in E27 socket that would last outside for more than a week. And by outside I mean right now outside, in the -25 Celsius weather. Ordinary 60W light bulbs could easily last years.

I have a 12V CF outside in a motion light on the shed..... runs off the raw 12V from the solar panel/battery system. It has been out there working for years, although here we rarely get below -20C (but have gone to -30). Several other inside the unheated shed also have worked for years. They get a little slower in very cold weather.

I'm perfectly happy with the CFL, so long as I buy decent ones. You buy extra cheap Home Dupe-you or Dollar Store units, you get cheap products, and deserve the poor performance you get.

Ironically, though, the ones that lasted the longest were bought 20 years ago at Big Lots........ go figure.

vpt
12-05-2012, 09:00 AM
Nearly all the bulbs around here are CFL's.

I actually got sick of changing bulbs in my trouble lights every time I bump them on something. Since I started using CFL's in the shop lights I think I have had to replace 3 in the last 5 years. One bulb got dropped twice from 5' up onto the cement and still worked fine. I used to have to change the old bulbs at least once a week because of simply just bumping the light on something...

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/8588/doorpaint005ir0.jpg

Willy
12-05-2012, 09:23 AM
I actually got sick of changing bulbs in my trouble lights every time I bump them on something.
Clumsy bastard.http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j31/250willy/cee48e43.jpg


Andy are you using rough service trouble light bulbs or conventional incandescent bulbs?

I can't remember how old the rough service trouble light bulb is that I'm currently using but I'm guessing 5 years. Now it hasn't been on daily for the last five years but does see use once or twice a week and has been dropped and banged many times. The only time I've ever had one go is when it has been physically crushed.
I know....clumsy bastard!

A.K. Boomer
12-05-2012, 09:41 AM
See post 10, my experience is No contest, the "normal" cf's outlast the rough service IC's at least five to one,

and they run a whole lot cooler - they do this because they are consuming a fraction of the energy - for some reason some people don't like to hear that statement - which incidentally can save your ass if working on fuel systems and the gas goes where it's not supposed too (like when changing a fuel filter from underneath)

and please don't tell me to buy the rubber coated IC's because as the coating peels off in about a month or two from the immense heat and then catches a drop of fuel you have your self a nice little bomb when it will inevitably crack the bulb and provide a perfect ignition source...

In most cases they are even more dangerous than the standards due to the "illusion" of believing you are protected...

There will never be a rough service IC in my trouble light ever again... for one they are more expensive - two they do not last no where near as long (something about still having to use one of those archaic bulb filaments) three they are very unsafe and four they are way more expensive to run (again - something about using one of those archaic filaments)

post would not be complete without mentioning under dash work ---- never again will I get my face burnt from having to "cozy up" to an IC bulb that's pumping out it's own weight in carbon every few minutes...
Iv have had the CF's fall off there "perch" up in there - come to rest on the side of my nose and just enjoyed the nice glow while iv finished the job...

bborr01
12-05-2012, 10:30 AM
I am at about 90 or 95% switched over to cfl's. My electric bill has dropped significantly. I have one in the lamp next to my recliner that gets a lot of use and it has been in there for a lot of years. In fact, it is still the old style that the tubes run length wise instead of twisted.

Using cfl's in a trouble light has been somewhat of a problem for me as they seem a little more fragile than a regular ic bulb and way more fragile than a rough service ic bulb. I don't know if they sell rough service cfl's yet. My trouble lights still have cfl's in them though. As boomer mentioned, the cooler running cfl's won't burn you if you touch the shield. I have just had to learn to be a little more careful with the cfl's in a trouble light. Haven't broken one in a couple of years.

Not to try to make this too political but I have a couple of friends who are right wingers and they want nothing to do with cfl's, hybrid cars, solar, wind or anything else that conserves energy. I don't understand them on that one, or much else for that matter. I think they heard something on rush about cfl's being bad.

Brian

ckelloug
12-05-2012, 11:01 AM
I've had mixed results with the CFL's but progress in bulbs seems like a good thing:

Here's to hoping that these fipel (Field Induced Polymer Luminescent) bulbs get commercialized:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-20553143

Krunch
12-05-2012, 11:31 AM
Somewhere I heard that some people were buying cases of 130V incandescent bulbs online. Apparently they last longer.

vpt
12-05-2012, 12:25 PM
Clumsy bastard.http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j31/250willy/cee48e43.jpg


Andy are you using rough service trouble light bulbs or conventional incandescent bulbs?

I can't remember how old the rough service trouble light bulb is that I'm currently using but I'm guessing 5 years. Now it hasn't been on daily for the last five years but does see use once or twice a week and has been dropped and banged many times. The only time I've ever had one go is when it has been physically crushed.
I know....clumsy bastard!



Oh yeah, I don't ever drop anything. At least when the light fell the couple times I moved my feet so I wouldn't crush a toe though. :)


I tried them all even the rough service bulbs. I will say the rough service did last a bit longer but still failed eventually to a light hit, even had one shatter from a short fall.

Like AK mentioned another thing I never liked was the heat. When working on cars especially under dashes you can't let a normal bulb (or trouble light housing) touch anything inside the car or it will melt. The CFL's I can put anywhere and not worry as well as grab the bulb or housing bare handed without getting burnt.

However I have found out that CFL's don't like being right next to MIG splatter. lol

lakeside53
12-05-2012, 12:41 PM
Somewhere I heard that some people were buying cases of 130V incandescent bulbs online. Apparently they last longer.

They do because you are running them at 120 volts with resultant lower wattage. I run 130v bulbs in most of the house. Rarely do I have to change a bulb.

Willy
12-05-2012, 12:43 PM
Yeah I agree the heat and burns are not welcome!
I don't have a problem with being frugal with electricity, it's in everyone's best interest.

Most of my lighting is either CFL or regular fluorescent 4 ft tubes. I do have an issue with slow startup in cold wheather though and the fact that they are not easily dimmed. Nothing like standing around outside in the winter at -30C waiting for the light to warm up while the fingers get cooler.

Personally I feel that the CFLs are a stop-gap measure until LED technology catches up, which it is doing rapidly. Much more energy efficient than fluorescent lighting.

Mark Rand
12-05-2012, 02:03 PM
I banned CF bulbs in my house about this time last year so it's only fitting.

http://lightbulb.aerolights.com/viewitems/aero-tech-bulbs-made-in-the-usa-20-000-hours/-a-series-light-bulbs-made-in-the-usa-20-000-hours?

That's not a brilliant innovation. It's just a filament running at 80% of the voltage that'd give it a 1000hour life, with the associated inefficiency...

A.K. Boomer
12-05-2012, 02:26 PM
I am at about 90 or 95% switched over to cfl's. My electric bill has dropped significantly. I have one in the lamp next to my recliner that gets a lot of use and it has been in there for a lot of years. In fact, it is still the old style that the tubes run length wise instead of twisted.

Using cfl's in a trouble light has been somewhat of a problem for me as they seem a little more fragile than a regular ic bulb and way more fragile than a rough service ic bulb. I don't know if they sell rough service cfl's yet. My trouble lights still have cfl's in them though. As boomer mentioned, the cooler running cfl's won't burn you if you touch the shield. I have just had to learn to be a little more careful with the cfl's in a trouble light. Haven't broken one in a couple of years.

Not to try to make this too political but I have a couple of friends who are right wingers and they want nothing to do with cfl's, hybrid cars, solar, wind or anything else that conserves energy. I don't understand them on that one, or much else for that matter. I think they heard something on rush about cfl's being bad.

Brian


your post does make me want to clarify - i have not always had great success with the CF's in my trouble light and at first went through just about as many as my standard IC rough services,,,

The failures were generally base separations or tube breakage...



but I kept at it and have settled into a 13 watt CF with a much smaller diameter tighter wound coil that does not even use much of the space of the trouble light housing - it kinda looks funny and goes up only about half as high, yet it puts out plenty of light - it's got far less leverage AND weight on the base so separations are thing of the past, and the tubes themselves are extremely resilient due to being so tightly knit...
They seem to fire right up in cold temps - last one I broke before this other also made it for years until I ran it over with a subaru,,,
for what it's worth the one I have in their now is called "great value"
I think I bought it in a 3 pack for under 6 bucks... (on sale)

im glad this got brought up because now that im checking things out I realize it's half covered in dirt and grease,,, yet I have no complaints about the amount of light it was putting out - but that's not saying im not looking forward to some new found free candlepower...

have to add - I have a cf above the stove that is a total POS, even though it's warm in the house it takes forever to fire up - it's one of those that are shaped like a regular bulb, doesn't bother me a whole lot cuz I only use it when im cooking something which is pretty rare...

uncle pete
12-05-2012, 02:32 PM
This is kind of a timely thread for me, I just had my first CFL fry yesterday, and it looks like an exact copy of JTiers pictures. I'm certainly not against CFLs and saving electricity despite the higher costs, What does piss me off is you can't fully trust any of these CFLs and leave them on without having someone home to babysit them. I've lost count of the horror stories I've read about them on various forums, so it's not like their habit of almost a complete melt down is at all rare. So why are the tough electrical standards we have in place not being applied to these since it's government mandated technology? I could give a rats ass about my home insurance, I don't want or need my home to burn. At least with the cheap or expensive incandecents they just died and didn't have the chance of torching your home. If it's electrical, doesn't it have to pass those safety standards? So exactly why are these allowed on the market since it appears cheap off shore goods being imported don't have to live up to the same standards domestic manufacturers are forced to comply with. The logical conclusion to that is the lobbyists are doing a hell of a job of buying up the correct elected officials. Maybe some good old fashioned heads on a stake would improve things?

Pete

A.K. Boomer
12-05-2012, 02:43 PM
I agree - but try leaving the house with a 100w IC on and having absolute faith that nothing will happen, did I mention it's in a lamp and you have pets...

it's enough heat to start a fire if knocked over, just sayin. with millions of these things working everyday it's a wonder there aren't even more incidences on both sides of this coin...

in the case of the CF's I believe if the companies get their act together they could actually be safer to leave on overall when you consider "all" the variables...

generally if one goes "super nova" it's actually contained unless it's got a loose base...

gearedloco
12-05-2012, 06:04 PM
The other day I needed a couple of 60 watt bulbs to replace CFs that were apparently dying from too many on-off cycles. Not a single 60 watt bulb to be found, but many 58 watt long life ICs ("double lifetime" ?) piled on the shelves.;) The situation was similar for other common bulb sizes. That problem solved! Somebody wasn't thinking when they wrote the regulations.

CFs are great in some applications, but not so good in others.

-bill

J Tiers
12-06-2012, 12:14 AM
Personally I feel that the CFLs are a stop-gap measure until LED technology catches up, which it is doing rapidly. Much more energy efficient than fluorescent lighting.

Not sure about that "much more" part...... it looks from the limited research I have done that the claimed efficiencies are generally about the same as CFL for the very best ones, which cost a lot more than CFLs, probably more than the cost difference justifies. I've seen, recently, 50W equivalent LED bulbs for almost a buck an equivalent watt, but even the high cost outlets sell a 50W CFL for a few bucks a two-pack.

If you want the very best color rendition, similar to "normal" bulbs, seems you need to add more cost, and cut the efficiency a bit. That's the case for "walk-in-and-buy-it places, I understand you can get deals on-line from the chinese.

As for long life, a lot of traffic lights are LED now, and I see plenty of them with a number of dark areas where a set of LEDs has failed for whatever reason.

Apparently the great promise hasn't quite made it into the market yet....... must be more of that "hope and change" ;)

Willy
12-06-2012, 01:54 AM
Not sure about that "much more" part...... it looks from the limited research I have done that the claimed efficiencies are generally about the same as CFL.............


Currently several manufactures are set to introduce LED lighting with 110+ lumens per watt output compared to CFL lighting with an output closer to 50-70 lumens per watt.

Sure pricing is now high but remember when CFLs were first introduced and how much the new technology cost at the time. Wait until LED goes mainstream, the scale of mass worldwide use and sales will reduce the price of LEDs dramatically.
The use of LEDs as home lighting is still in it's infancy. Any bets on which technology will be at the forefront in 5-10 years.

With a more robust package, instant on and easily dimmed, and a longer life, LED lighting has already taken over from incandescent lighting in mobile industrial applications.



As for long life, a lot of traffic lights are LED now, and I see plenty of them with a number of dark areas where a set of LEDs has failed for whatever reason.



Personally I haven't experienced this, not to say it does not happen, possibly these lights were sourced from a vendor whose quality is below par.
At least they aren't using CFLs. I can only imagine the carnage on our nation's highways if traffic lights were forced to use CFL lighting.

J Tiers
12-06-2012, 08:30 AM
Currently several manufactures are set to introduce LED lighting with 110+ lumens per watt output compared to CFL lighting with an output closer to 50-70 lumens per watt.

Sure pricing is now high .............

I note the "set to introduce" and "sure pricing is high" wording............. And I think that is precisely what I said......

While laboratory units show wonderful efficiency, that has yet to hit store shelves, and the LED lamps actually widely available are often 10x the cost, for lesser efficiency, or at best roughly equal efficiency. This comes with the added disadvantages of being highly directional and very often of what many consider poor color quality. The higher efficiency units are unlikely to be cheaper for a while yet. And they may never BE cheaper, we don't know yet.

The so-called "white" light from too many LED lamps is still very "blue". This is changing, of course, but is really not where I would want it for the available lamps. Some people are not bothered by that. Others, including me, are.

I notice that the majority of comparisons are between LED and incandescent, when you look at sites touting LEDs. The differences from CFL are simply not compelling enough to bring out comparisons there. And CFLs , as well as LEDs, vary..... Some CFLs are closer to the 100 lumens per watt, others are short of 50. LEDs vary over a similar range, and the general run of actually purchaseable units seems to be towards the lower end.

A.K. Boomer
12-06-2012, 09:16 AM
As for long life, a lot of traffic lights are LED now, and I see plenty of them with a number of dark areas where a set of LEDs has failed for whatever reason.



Yes I have seen this in my little town, I think they use kinda a honeycomb pattern and iv seen it so bad that almost half of them were blank.
what's kind of strange to me is I will see patterns many times, why that would be I don't know - many times the entire light will be ok except for a diagonal strip all the way through... maybe when that happens it's not to do with the individual LED's but more so the wiring of them or something....

You know it's been years now since the LED's have hit the market and the price has come down some but no where near what I thought it was going to,
Iv been anxious to convert two rooms in my house because they are on dimmers,
Im not in a big rush to replace the CFL's in any of the other rooms due to them being just fine and also efficient, and even though im only using 40 watt IC bulbs in each of those rooms the light fixtures take two of them, I was using 25 watters but it's just not enough and in fact the 40's are pushing it.

the thing is is both rooms get some use so it will be a good savings when the led's become more practical...

Willy
12-06-2012, 09:30 AM
All very true JT, You won't get any argument from me about about the current state of LED lighting.
On the other hand I don't believe that I'm alone in my inherent dislike of CFLs. I haven't yet cozied up to them despite the fact they've been in mass circulation for what, darned near 25 years?
The quality of light still needs attention, they aren't easily dimmed, questionable life expectancy, slow cold weather starting. This after almost three decades of wide spread use and development.

Also I don't believe many are in love with the fact that it is suggested that a hazmat unit be called in every time one is dropped or disposed of. I realize it seems a little silly at first glance but not when one considers the shear number of units out there now. The number of CFLs now must be in the many millions, perhaps billions? A very considerable ecological threat when perceived on the grand scale. Proper disposal is all part of the total cost of ownership.

Sure CFLs are more energy efficient than incandescents but like LEDs they too still have a long way to go before seeing the wide public acceptance that incandescents have enjoyed.

A.K. Boomer
12-06-2012, 10:16 AM
The number of CFLs now must be in the many millions, perhaps billions? A very considerable ecological threat when perceived on the grand scale. Proper disposal is all part of the total cost of ownership.
I would think many billions and your right Willy - they are a double edge sword no doubt,
but if they fill a transition stage and then slowly drop off I think they still will be of overall benefit,

IC's are becoming a dirty little word as it should be - and CFL's should start taking some heat that way due to them not being the complete answer, it's all a series of trade off's in different area's along the way but the LED does sound very promising, The only real thing holding them back is to get them down to earth in the practical department,
they are efficient as all hell, cool running and very safe, dim-able, no mercury, and lots of options with type of lighting...



Sure CFLs are more energy efficient than incandescents but like LEDs they too still have a long way to go before seeing the wide public acceptance that incandescents have enjoyed.

Key words - "have enjoyed" They are great in most all the factors except one - they are old archaic carburetted fuel hogging Edsel's, they are quickly becoming impractical to own as the cost of power keeps rising and yes in part due to having to fund cleaner sources - but we have to start somewhere or we will literally be choking on it... They are a easily predictable guarantee of adding to the problem but you cannot say that for sure about all the newer technology that's coming from this latest "push",

We are at the very least burdening other sources whilst lightening the load on others that have been in place and accumulating the load for a long long time... In many cases that's called a "time buyer"...

rdhem2
12-06-2012, 10:24 AM
Gentlemen;
When buying light bulbs for residencial use skip all the home improvement/grocery store bulbs and move on. The secret to long life is voltage rating. Buy the highest rating you can find, 130v is best. Why? Heavier filement with more bracing to withstand the higher voltage. You will pay a little more but by the time you need to change one out you will have forgotton how much you payed anyway! If you have one in an inaccesable space or pain to change? Ask for a traffic light lamp, or extended life rough service, all 130v of course. Then let the grandkids worry about changing it next time.

I like Jaaaaks idea best, just buy light emmitting heaters.

A.K. Boomer
12-06-2012, 10:39 AM
I like Jaaaaks idea best, just buy light emmitting heaters.


Really is a good way of looking at them - but it don't stop there,
Member when ole Gramps used to put one of those 100watt heat globes under the chevy engine so it would fire right off on a bone chilling cold morning?

Well, after all the mining and shipping and conversion loses you can multiply that little "coal fire" under the engine by many times - course your only scooping up a fraction of it but still, when you look at it that way it's quite the little fire going on under there ain't it?

danlb
12-06-2012, 02:05 PM
Yes I have seen this in my little town, I think they use kinda a honeycomb pattern and iv seen it so bad that almost half of them were blank.
what's kind of strange to me is I will see patterns many times, why that would be I don't know - many times the entire light will be ok except for a diagonal strip all the way through... maybe when that happens it's not to do with the individual LED's but more so the wiring of them or something....

You know it's been years now since the LED's have hit the market and the price has come down some but no where near what I thought it was going to,



The failure pattern of traffic signals is often due to the LEDs being wired in series. If one LED fails open, then they all fail. On the other hand, if an LED fails shorted the voltage goes up for the remaining LEDS, leading to more early failures. The leading cause of LED failure is poor heat management. We lost a lot of the new traffic lights the first 110 degree summer day.

As for the cost, the LEDs themselves are MUCH cheaper than they were 10 years ago. I have a 1 watt white LED in my parts bin that I bought for $22 in 2002. It puts out less than 15 lumens and has a slight green tint to it. I also have a LED bought last year for $1.50 that puts out 100 lumens when driven at 1 watt (280 lumens when driven at 3 watts). The cost has been dropping even as they have been improving.

The $40 to $80 dollar LED screw in light bulbs are charging for a lot of packaging. Evan's strip of LED lights on aluminum angle would cost hundreds if purchased as a fixture it Lowes.

Dan

J Tiers
12-06-2012, 10:45 PM
yeah, there is mercury in a CFL..... Not much of it, that stuff costs money.... Call Hazmat if you break one? Only for the real trembling Tillies among us. Sweep up the bits, open the window for a bit if you want, and move on. There is less per lumen in there than in a regular tube.

As for LEDs. the ecological wonder......... Except for the REAL HazMat that is used to make them..... Very nasty chemicals used in the processing,. and not always (maybe never?) properly disposed of over there in china where they are made. (OK some are made elsewhere.... whatever). Some of that stuff makes mercury look pretty benign, which it may be by comparison.

I'll keep my CFLs..... even if they fail every 3 years, which mine do not, I'll save money using them for now, instead of the LEDs at many times the cost.

beanbag
12-07-2012, 05:56 AM
I just had another CFL fail on me after less than probably 20 hrs use. Money saving my ass. It was among the batch I bought recently. All my other CFL's are more than 7 years old. Where can I buy these "good" CFL's that people speak of?

GNM109
12-07-2012, 03:00 PM
I just had another CFL fail on me after less than probably 20 hrs use. Money saving my ass. It was among the batch I bought recently. All my other CFL's are more than 7 years old. Where can I buy these "good" CFL's that people speak of?

I must have gotten a bad run of CFL's from the local robbery hardware store. I get a few weeks of intermittent use out of them then them they simply quit working.

I just changed the one in the kitchen again after two weeks. The latest one is dim when you first turn it on and then it will brighten up after about 15 minutes. That can't be good.

I hate the facts that they (1) have mercury in them and (2) they are all made in China and (3) the government is forcing us to use them.

Also, I'm wondering about dimmable CFL's. Have they come out with some that are affordable? The last ones I saw were about $10 for two.

danlb
12-07-2012, 04:27 PM
How much are you paying for the ones that die in weeks. Must not be much if you think $5 each for dimmable is expensive.

Like most electronics, the cheaper you buy the greater likelihood that it will not last long. Try a name brand with a good reputation next time and it might last longer.

BTW, many CFLs warm up and become brighter after a short time. I guess it takes time to vaporize all the mercury and get the plasma warmed up.


Dan

danlb
12-07-2012, 04:37 PM
Ironically, one LED bulb that I bought (a good quality, name brand) that should be equivalent to a 60 watt has a series of fatal flaws that make it unsuitable for use.

1) It's got a heavy heat sink/radiator. Must weigh a pound. Its weight caused the stamped metal mounting tab in the light fixture to sag. The task light on an arm would need helper springs. No joy there.

2) It flickers on when there is any current at all present. My motion detectors in the hall and the X10 remote controls both run a little current through the light to power their electronics. That eliminates those uses.

3) There is more than a half second delay when it powers on. This irritated the wife. Can't use it in her bathroom.

4) The best place for it is to replace a 100 watt 4 inch globe in the kitchen hanging lamp. Wife leaves it on at least 10 hours a day. That would be a great savings. She says it is not pretty enough, and the lamp is made to show off the bulb.

I hate to put a $40 bulb in the bare overhead light socket in the garage, used a few minutes per day, but that's where it will end up.


Dan

A.K. Boomer
12-07-2012, 04:46 PM
You know it's also kinda funny (and a double standard) that many that are complaining about the mercury in the CFL's are OK with using the 4 ft long FL shop light tubes by the dozen sometime and just one of them has 10 or 20 times the surface area (and therefor mercury) of the little "bulb type"

so - whats your hazmat procedure with those? Uh don't have one ehh? :rolleyes:

uh you do? - then quit your freaking wining and just take the little ones in with the big ones when you go to dump them off...

J Tiers
12-07-2012, 07:50 PM
so - whats your hazmat procedure with those?

uh you do? - then quit your freaking wining and just take the little ones in with the big ones when you go to dump them off...

yep, we do... they go in a box, and then at the annual hazmat collection, they, along with CFLs, some types of bum batteries (no comments by JS please), and other items of similar nature, go in. We tend to use a number of the 4 footers, since we have a multi-shelf seed starting rack setup. Then also, we have racks of stuff being over-wintered.

I have considered the HID lamps, but I don't need a visit from the Narcs. They are always interested in bright lights on timers, and I really prefer the racks. If I put in HID, I'd have to spread out the plants (veggies, and various ornamentals and tropical trees, etc.) which would subtract room for machinery.

lakeside53
12-07-2012, 07:56 PM
Dead CFL's? Home Depot and most of our local hardware stores take them back.

wierdscience
12-07-2012, 09:04 PM
Dead CFL's? Home Depot and most of our local hardware stores take them back.

Save the store ticket in the box when you buy them,once they are all burned out take them back under warranty.It's what I did,worked several times since no one brand lasted longer than the claimed warranty.Last time they tried to pawn the warranty back on the mfg,they didn't know me very well:D

john hobdeclipe
12-07-2012, 09:06 PM
Courtesy of a bankruptcy auction of a lighting supply company, I have enough 40watt, 75watt and 100 watt incandescent bulbs to last for the rest of my life. I'll continue to use these until LED lighting becomes both affordable and warmly pleasant.

GNM109
12-07-2012, 09:44 PM
How much are you paying for the ones that die in weeks. Must not be much if you think $5 each for dimmable is expensive.

Like most electronics, the cheaper you buy the greater likelihood that it will not last long. Try a name brand with a good reputation next time and it might last longer.

BTW, many CFLs warm up and become brighter after a short time. I guess it takes time to vaporize all the mercury and get the plasma warmed up.


Dan

Sounds like you are calling me cheap. LOL FYI, the ones sold in the various big box stores are all made in the same alley in China and yes, $5.00 is a lot of money for any household light bulb, espcially when you can buy incandescent bulbs that are dimmable for $.50 each.

I wasn't aware than cheap electronics didn't last as long as good ones. Thanks.

danlb
12-07-2012, 10:19 PM
Nope, not calling you cheap. :) I live in an expensive area, so prices on everything is inflated. $5 does not seem like much for me.

We pay a buck or two each for 100 watt bulbs, and only get 1000 hours out of them if lucky. The CFLs are supposed to last 5 to 8 times longer, so should still be a good buy at the higher price. We have a couple that have been in service for 3 years. Some of those were a dollar each, but the local utility subsidized $5 per bulb to promote their use.

I figure that any electronic device that sells ( with markup ) for a dollar will fall into the throw away category. It's just hard to put a lot of quality parts into a design, import it and sell it that cheap.


Dan

J Tiers
12-07-2012, 10:38 PM
Take a look at the parts in the picture of the burned up one..... two high voltage transistors, a transformer, a PC board, diodes, capacitors, a choke coil, a specially coated glass tube, two piece plastic enclosure, assembly, packaging....... if you buy it for a buck it can't have much care taken.

Plus, it might be a QC reject that "went out the back door" and got sold to another small manufacturer. That's cheap, not at all unusual, apparently, and doesn't make for long product life.

Buying decent ones, I get much longer life. We have a lot of them, but it is rare to replace them. AND, many are in areas with shorter term use, like the bathrooms. Turned on and then off a gain not long after. That's the worst usage for most any CFL, but they do not seem to blow out fast. I'm trying to remember when I replaced the last one. It has to have been months, although I am pretty sure I replaced one this year in the basement.

beanbag
12-08-2012, 05:00 AM
I am looking for a "good" 3000K bulb. GE does not make those. Sylvania does. The reviews of the bulbs at Lowe's are not very good.

flathead4
12-08-2012, 09:50 AM
CFLs may become obsolete if this FIPEL technology pans out. The article claims this technology is twice as efficient as fluorescent lighting. Plans are to have it ready for consumers next year but no mention of cost.

http://news.wfu.edu/2012/12/03/taking-the-buzz-out-of-office-lights/


Tom

J Tiers
12-08-2012, 09:36 PM
CFLs may become obsolete if this FIPEL technology pans out.
Tom

Maybe, maybe not...... The important part of the "CFL" is the "C" part......the part that lets you screw them into a lamp socket. It doesn't quite look like they are aiming the "FIPEL" at CFLs but rather at tube fluorescents.

ckelloug
12-08-2012, 10:09 PM
What about commercial quad pin fluorescent bulb fixtures?

I know that they won't screw into standard light sockets but the commercial fixtures with the small 4 pin fluorescent tubes have been great for me.
The advantage in the commercial style can lamps is that the ballast is external and of decent quality leaving the cheap parts in the bulb where they belong.
If I get too fed up with lighting, I'm installing more of them. . . In my three fixtures with 2 bulbs apiece, I think that I have replaced something like 1 of the
bulbs in 8 years.

The only problems I have had is that they need to be appropriately grounded and that they are slow to come to full output when cold.
Give me FIPELS darn it. . .

--Cameron

J Tiers
12-08-2012, 10:52 PM
What about commercial quad pin fluorescent bulb fixtures?

I know that they won't screw into standard light sockets

That would be the issue for me..... but CFLs are fine......

I can just see the CFLs (even undamaged) being re-defined as hazmat with a huge disposal fee after a while....... just because of the inherent perversity of things, and the fact that we have been so mightily encouraged to use them.