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View Full Version : Why does HSM cost 40% more for Canadians?



SmoggyTurnip
12-05-2012, 12:12 PM
Why?

George Bulliss
12-05-2012, 12:37 PM
I do not know the specifics but have been told that shipping and taxes account for the difference in price.

RussZHC
12-05-2012, 01:45 PM
George is a lot more familiar than I regarding publishing...I do know at one time the publishing businesses in Canada were very well protected (desire of federal govn't)...I think at one time publishers had a choice to publish a "Canadian" version (IIRC, Time was one of those that did) or get tariffs applied, sort of like the supposed fee on all blank media that supposedly was meant to help artists who were losing monies through "pirated" copies.

For me, back in the day, auto magazines were say $5.95 and at the till in Canada first they were $6.95 and later $7.95 without the price shown on the cover having changed.

brian Rupnow
12-05-2012, 02:14 PM
The Canadian government has some absolutely insane regulations for publishers concerning 'Canadian Content'. If you don't have a very high percentage of articles written by Canadians in Canada, then there is a large penalty fee added to the price of what gets published here. Take for instance Readers Digest. When I was a kid, it was an absolutely amazing book, which my entire family looked foreward to every month. Now, the "Canadian" version is filled with so much watered down crap that nobody reads it. The Canadian Authors Guild (or whatever it is called) must have some very powerful lobbyists in Ottawa.

SmoggyTurnip
12-05-2012, 02:22 PM
So If I buy a subscription to HSM does HSM give some of my money to the Canadian goverment?

Black Forest
12-05-2012, 02:23 PM
In Europe it is often the case with software from USA costs double here even tough it gets downloaded from the internet. If I need to buy an expensive piece of software it is cheaper for me to buy it in USA and ship it here. There is no import duty on software into Germany as far as I know so that is not the reason. I could understand the increase if I was purchasing a German version of the software but I don't. All in English. Adobe products are the worst.

George Bulliss
12-05-2012, 02:30 PM
So If I buy a subscription to HSM does HSM give some of my money to the Canadian goverment?

Like I said, I donít know the specifics but beyond the increase in the cost of mailing, there are other fees involved, so yes, some of your money does go back to the government.

I know that there are US postal taxes on the advertising in the magazine but am not sure if Canada also adds their own advertising taxes. The two dollars in in additional cost per issue can get eaten up pretty quickly when you double the governments and postal services handling the product.

lazlo
12-05-2012, 03:09 PM
If it makes you feel any better, the publishers of Model Engineering Workshop charge Americans and Canadians about 30% more than the EU or Australian subscription prices, because they sub'ed out the North American distribution to another publisher.

sasquatch
12-05-2012, 03:39 PM
I agree,, we in Canada really get "Ripped" by buying US subscriptions or other books!!

Postal costs here just keep climbing, all the while the "Canada Post" Honchos keep claiming they aren't making any money.

69 Cents here now to mail a letter or a card. (Gotta be a deterent to many that used to mail out a lot of xmas cards etc to friends/relatives. _Gets expensive for say seniors on fixed incomes!)

sasquatch
12-05-2012, 03:56 PM
I just checked the HSM magazine sale on now, posted price in the USA is $23.95,,to Canada, $38.95,

That is exactly $15.00 more. Just for one subscription,, so Canadians wishing to get all three mags get stung BIG time.

Does create a deterent to get subscriptions up here.

Anyone know how many Canadian subscriptions go out each issue?

flylo
12-05-2012, 04:09 PM
But the free healthcare:confused:??????

flylo
12-05-2012, 04:19 PM
Your in luck, I just checked my e-mail & all 4 are on sale for $3 off!

Evan
12-05-2012, 04:37 PM
There is a lot here being blamed on governments that isn't accurate. It may have been in the past and there were certainly past justifications in Canada due to exchange rates but that justification has been gone for years. Most differences in price on published goods is due to "regional pricing" by corporations. In the case of Canada vs the US the pricing difference that used to be necessary due to the large exchange rate differential has simply been kept and returns additional profit since the exchange rate difference is now minimal.


But the free healthcare??????

Where? We pay a monthly premium for our government health care. It runs about $1400 per year and that gets you a 4 patient ward in the hospital and driving 1000 kilometres to see any sort of specialist.

sasquatch
12-05-2012, 04:39 PM
Flylo i agree with your'e post about the FREE health care.

And although it keeps jumping in price to mail a letter or card,, i have no complaints about the 69Cents, when, where else could you send a letter, thousands of miles at times, for a measly 69 cents.
That is STILL a bargain. However if you mail a lot of stuff regularly, it adds up pretty quick.

lakeside53
12-05-2012, 04:44 PM
You can buy your magazine from the USA; I buy my drugs (prescription!) from Canada ;)

lakeside53
12-05-2012, 04:47 PM
There is a lot here being blamed on governments that isn't accurate. It may have been in the past and there were certainly past justifications in Canada due to exchange rates but that justification has been gone for years. Most differences in price on published goods is due to "regional pricing" by corporations. In the case of Canada vs the US the pricing difference that used to be necessary due to the large exchange rate differential has simply been kept and returns additional profit since the exchange rate difference is now minimal.



Where? We pay a monthly premium for our government health care. It runs about $1400 per year and that gets you a 4 patient ward in the hospital and driving 1000 kilometres to see any sort of specialist.

LOL... I pay $1200 a MONTH for me and my wife, and that's with a $2500 deductible and no vision, dental or prescription drug coverage. Plenty of places in the USA where your have to drive over 600 miles to see a 'specialist".

Evan
12-05-2012, 05:02 PM
It still isn't "free". We have no dental or vision coverage. Drugs have a high deductible and only some are covered above that. Two of the three I take are not covered. We have driven about 7000k so far this year and I only get a partial tax deduction for that.

Willy
12-05-2012, 05:11 PM
Maybe for the posties. LOL

http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/canada/archives/2012/12/20121204-085128.html


Treasury Board President Tony Clement was responding to a Canadian Federation of Independent Business study that found federal employees are costing taxpayers $3.5 billion annually by calling in sick or taking personal days.

Black_Moons
12-05-2012, 05:41 PM
I refuse to shop at stores that charge canadians signifigantly more for no reason. *cough*
Also, you should see some of the recent reports iv heard from steam...
Such as, buying a game in one region (Digitial delivery, no media/etc), gifting it to people in another region where that game 'costs more'... Getting the person who gifted the games banned. Dispite the fact you can't actualy tell what region the person your sending the gift to is in.
I'll also note that being banned from steam means that every game you have bought through steam no longer works.

Free trade only is allowed when its corperations profiting and not consumers.

oldtiffie
12-05-2012, 06:10 PM
Why does HSM cost 40% more for Canadians?

Why?


It costs a bit anywhere - some more of less than others - and they take longer to get there for some more then others as well.

Griping and winding each other up will achieve 4/5 of 5/8 of not very much at all.

Its just a matter of whether you want to pay the going rate - or not - for the VP magazines content - same applies to lots of stuff.

If you want them - pay up - if not - don't.

I have no idea what I pay for the magazines plus postage to Australia - I want the magazines so I just pay the account with good grace - as is my choice/elective to do so.

After I've read mine I give them away to a "machinist" club - I even deliver them when I am passing the residence of one of its members. They read and pass them on - circulate - the magazines among the members so they do a lot of good for a lot of peple who may not otherwise be able to read or buy the magazines.

I have two current subscriptions but I haven't decided whether I will renew them when the account/s come in or not.

lazlo
12-05-2012, 06:22 PM
LOL... I pay $1200 a MONTH for me and my wife, and that's with a $2500 deductible and no vision, dental or prescription drug coverage. Plenty of places in the USA where your have to drive over 600 miles to see a 'specialist".

You're just a whiner Andy. Americans don't need health insurance -- we're rugged individuals :cool:

quasi
12-05-2012, 07:45 PM
every thing in Canada is 40% more , price out the difference in TRUCKS or Quads between the US and Canada. Another example, check out KBC's US and Canadian websites for the price difference they have for the same item. When you order from KBC in Canada, a lot of the stuff is shipped from their US warehouses, at Canadian price levels of course.

kf2qd
12-05-2012, 08:12 PM
The reason it costs more in Canada is because its flat out COLD up there. Only half the US is cold so us folks who live in the warm part pay more and help out those folks who live in the cold northern states. If you Canadians would have been smart enough to move part of your country someplace warm you could have had these advantages also.

Y'all chose the cold and to play Hockey so quit yer whinin...

Yep - It was in the low 80's down here in south Texas. And ya never need to shovel it. (We leave that to the politicians...)

ldbent
12-05-2012, 08:25 PM
You can't change out to oot for free.

smalltime
12-05-2012, 10:12 PM
You're just a whiner Andy. Americans don't need health insurance -- we're rugged individuals :cool:

Well hay Laz....Fancy meeting you here.
Spreading the Gospel I see.;)

quasi
12-05-2012, 11:54 PM
kf2qd, why do Texans fear the cold so much? General Sherman did not have such a high opinion of Texas.

lazlo
12-06-2012, 12:54 AM
kf2qd, why do Texans fear the cold so much? General Sherman did not have such a high opinion of Texas.

We don't fear cold, we just don't know what it is! :)

My son is 5 and he's never seen snow...

oldtiffie
12-06-2012, 01:45 AM
We don't fear cold, we just don't know what it is! :)

..

"Nothing to fear but fear itself" hey? (FDR in his inaugural address).

http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_nf=3&gs_rn=0&gs_ri=hp&cp=12&gs_id=1e&xhr=t&q=nothing+to+fear+but+fear+itself&pf=p&tbo=d&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&rlz=1W1IRFC_enAU360&oq=nothing+to+f&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=b89ea54a0a5ab1d&bpcl=39650382&biw=1920&bih=846

lakeside53
12-06-2012, 01:53 AM
We don't fear cold, we just don't know what it is! :)

My son is 5 and he's never seen snow...

lol Bring him "up here". He could see real trees as well (the taller in the pic are 175'). Dumping in the mountains and probably here within a week. But then.. it can all look like this (from my deck) - this is not CANADA ;)

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/lakeside53/misc%20linked%20uploads/DSC_4288Medium.jpg

LHC
12-06-2012, 08:33 AM
Gents -

I think this has been suggested before, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to toss it up again for the Canadians that are close to the border. "Close" for me is 1 hour drive away.

At every US border city/town/village there are a bunch of enterprising Americans that have little businesses to collect parcels and mail on behalf of Canadians. In my case, the place will let stuff sit there for months if need be. I pay 1 dollar for each parcel I get delivered there, and I think the mail is free as I have a personal mailbox I have that costs 30 bucks a year. Step 2 - register the address with your credit card company as an alternate ship-to address, as well as with Amazon, etc.

If you are like me, once you are set up and using this system, many Canadian retailers will be a thing of the past along with their gouging. Amazon, ebay, whatever, everything goes to me at a US address and I go and "load up" every few weeks. I happily pay the tax at the Canadian border as I am saving so much it barely makes a dent in the savings. I have seen piles of magazine subscriptions being delivered there as well, although I'm not on that bandwagon yet.

Loading up on groceries and gas at the same time just sweetens the deal. Boneless / skinless chicken is a personal favorite - it's 1/4 to 1/8 the price they charge here where I live in Canada and you can bring back 40 pounds if you want - tax free, every day, if you so desired.

Every trip for me costs about 20 bucks in gas and a Saturday morning - but the savings are between 200 and 800 dollars on average - every trip - over the last few years.

Just passing this along in case someone has not heard of this absolutely legal process.

Kevin B.
12-06-2012, 11:02 AM
It's an outrage that there are extra charges for certain items sold in Canada. Isn't Canada a suburb of North Dakota?

Mcgyver
12-06-2012, 11:14 AM
At every US border city/town/village there are a bunch of enterprising Americans that have little businesses to collect parcels and mail on behalf of Canadians. In my case, the place will let stuff sit there for months if need be. I pay 1 dollar for each parcel I get delivered there, and I think the mail is free as I have a personal mailbox I have that costs 30 bucks a year. Step 2 - register the address with your credit card company as an alternate ship-to address, as well as with Amazon, etc.

If you are like me, once you are set up and using this system, many Canadian retailers will be a thing of the past along with their gouging. Amazon, ebay, whatever, everything goes to me at a US address and I go and "load up" every few weeks. I happily pay the tax at the Canadian border as I am saving so much it barely makes a dent in the savings. I have seen piles of magazine subscriptions being delivered there as well, although I'm not on that bandwagon yet.
.

the best form of protest is with the pocket book - good for you. The disparity was understandable when we had a $0.70 dollar...but now its $1.01. There is no reason for it other Canadians seem willing to bend over and put up with it. The economic solution is competition which we find south of the border....so that's where we need to go.

I also have no issue with the HST at the border; you're going to pay it from a Canadian retailer. If you can be bothered, isn't there also some mechanism to get back the US sales tax - send in the receipts and show that the goods went out of state?

The gouging is so distasteful, I really dislike buying from those who do it....which seem like most on the industrial goods side of things. I haven't used a consolidator but its a good idea - however usually paying the extra shipping is cheaper than the Canuck retailer so that's what i do.

lazlo
12-06-2012, 11:28 AM
lol Bring him "up here". He could see real trees as well (the taller in the pic are 175'). Dumping in the mountains and probably here within a week. But then.. it can all look like this (from my deck) - this is not CANADA ;)

Wow, gorgeous Andy! Phenomenal picture too!

Can I just UPS him up there for the Winter? Might get something done around here. You won't! ;)

metalmagpie
12-06-2012, 02:02 PM
... Boneless / skinless chicken is a personal favorite - it's 1/4 to 1/8 the price they charge here...

It always amazes me that guys who can design and build intricate mechanical/electrical/magnetic devices, and finish them to look like museum quality can't figure out how to bone a chicken breast or grab hold of a piece of skin and pull. Let alone making stock from the bones ..

metalmagpie <whose other obsession is cooking>

danlb
12-06-2012, 02:36 PM
In the US, periodicals are supported with an artificially low rate for mailing. Is that same break available for mailing magazines across the border?

Personally, I'm disgruntled about the Canadian requirement for bi-lingual packaging. Many major manufacturers are now selling goods in the use that are labeled in French and English. The same package can be sold in the US and Canada that way. I can't scan for important information on a package when every other sentence or paragraph is in a foreign language that looks like English. I have to read carefully. Sigh.


Dan

LHC
12-06-2012, 02:38 PM
It always amazes me that guys who can design and build intricate mechanical/electrical/magnetic devices, and finish them to look like museum quality can't figure out how to bone a chicken breast or grab hold of a piece of skin and pull. Let alone making stock from the bones ..

metalmagpie <whose other obsession is cooking>

It's all about what you like to do and what you like to avoid -
Laziness plays a factor in here as well of course....

Mcgyver
12-06-2012, 02:41 PM
Personally, I'm disgruntled about the Canadian requirement for bi-lingual packaging.

I'd bet the majority of us would say the same :D. Grabbing something with the french side facing is some sort of natural law up there with the bread landing buttered side down

brian Rupnow
12-06-2012, 03:04 PM
DanlB--Do you think that the rest of us Anglophone Canadians enjoy the French language we have to live with on everything we buy in Canada? We have 10 provinces and a couple of territories up here. 1 1/2 of them are French speaking. The tail wags the dog. However, according to history lessons, the Frenchies got here first, so are entitled. The Frenchies are great folks, but the language issue drives us all nuts.

Black_Moons
12-06-2012, 03:32 PM
It would be nice if HSM would at least try and break down the cost.
For example (prices picked at random for this example):
Subscription: $10/month (Digitial delivery option at this price??)
American S/H: $5/month
Canadian S/H: $10/month + $2 import fees

Or yaknow, just something to show that its actualy the same 'price' and the diffrence is in the S/H and duty fees, or whatever it is.
Im sure you could find out exactly where that extra cost comes in, Or at least *PRETEND* to and tack the diffrence onto the S/H instead of just 'heres the subscription price that changes depending on what country you select'

lazlo
12-06-2012, 03:38 PM
It would be nice if HSM would at least try and break down the cost.

We (Americans and Canadians) went through this whole deal with Tee Publishing and the exorbitant North American subscription rates, and it was hopeless.

Evan
12-06-2012, 04:05 PM
There are some small added costs for selling magazines printed in the US in Canada. That amounts to about a five to 10 percent premium at most. The rest is simply "regional pricing". As I wrote, when the dollar went up the price did not come down. It is the same for many products although not all. Will it change? Some items will but I doubt magazines will, especially not specialized limited circulation magazines. It makes the Canadian sales a minor profit centre or at least less loss. Magazine subscriptions are often not a profit centre, advertising is. Subscription sales are usually subsidized by advertising, especially in low distribution publications.

Subscriptions sales themselves also help to raise readership numbers which supports advertising numbers and makes advertising more attractive to advertisers. The only thing that makes it possible for Village Press to continue to publish machinist magazines is that the advertisers are willing to pay higher than average rates because they sell some products that are very expensive compared to shampoo which requires a very large market base to be profitable.

A.K. Boomer
12-06-2012, 04:13 PM
Evan, have I ever told you you have a good way of explaining things? most of the time... :)

edit; hey - can I borrow some money ------- lol just kidding...

Evan
12-06-2012, 04:26 PM
My daughter sells a weekly newspaper.

smalltime
12-06-2012, 04:49 PM
It always amazes me that guys who can design and build intricate mechanical/electrical/magnetic devices, and finish them to look like museum quality can't figure out how to bone a chicken breast or grab hold of a piece of skin and pull. Let alone making stock from the bones ..

metalmagpie <whose other obsession is cooking>

I also LOVE to cook. I do all the cooking in my house and we rarely eat out.

We just had Thanksgiving at our house for 17 plates, what fun.

I would rather cook than build dies, and I LOVE to build dies.

uncle pete
12-06-2012, 08:30 PM
Yesterday I started and mostly completed my own point of view about why things cost 40% more in Canaduh. I decided not to finish it and deleted everything. Maybe I shouldn't have. I love my country...........................But it would take a total fool to not come to the conclusion we as Canadians are being screwed at almost every opportunity, and at just about anything you'd care to name. And no this isn't just idle wineing. I also misspell Canaduh anytime I can. It's my way of less that subtly pointing out the shear stupidity and incompetence of almost anyone who gets elected to run this country. There's far too many times my country makes me really wonder exactly why my Grandfathers fought and died for it. And my next point probably works just as well for any member from the U.S. as it does for us Canadians.

Do you know the exact definition of a democracy? I'll bet you think you do. But when was the last time you made a point of actually looking it up, reading and understanding any dictionary's exact meaning of the term? So maybe you should do that, you don't need me to cut and paste it here. And if your going to tell me my opinions are 100% wrong, then you better have done just that and re read and understood the exact definition of the term. I think anyone that takes the 5 minutes out of their busy lives to do so will get my point.

And I'm sure any Canadian members here can think of more than a few examples of what our elected officials tell us what we are and aren't going to do. CRTC anyone? The ongoing continuous costs to every single product in Canaduh due to that moronic dual language problem, and the dozens of other issues that don't really need to be pointed out since most Canadians already know them. And I'd just like to point out one of the main principals of any democracy is that every single person is an equal, and no one has the right to special treatment. I won't bother even starting with that since to do so you usually get branded as a bigot or worse today. My expectations are that every single person within Canaduh is just that, an equal, no more no less. I don't know of any way to be fairer than that. The realities just don't agree with the definition though. We as voters, and I'm certainly including myself, let this happen. Remember what we were taught in school? Those elected representatives WORK FOR US.

If the above hasn't made you more than slightly pissed off as a voter, then I've wasted my time.

Pete

sasquatch
12-06-2012, 08:33 PM
Very Good Post Pete!!

flylo
12-06-2012, 08:49 PM
If the above hasn't made you more than slightly pissed off as a voter, then I've wasted my time.

Pete[/QUOTE]
I've seen this for a long time. 10+ yraes ago my son & I toured around Lake Superior & met some Canadian Gold Wing Riders. I had a new Valkorie I bought for $8999 & told them the same shop had new Wings for $13,900, They said even if they bought one the duty/tax/fee would make it $40K+ as one importer brought all the bikes into Canada. Sure didn't seem like the goverment was looking out the the people that pay their way? Just my observation.:(

Mcgyver
12-06-2012, 09:12 PM
Pete for Pres...opps....Prime Minister!

flylo
12-06-2012, 09:15 PM
If you guys don't use Pete, we could really use him!:rolleyes:

Evan
12-06-2012, 09:23 PM
This isn't a democracy. It's a Constitutional Monarchy. There are no democracies operating on this planet. In Canada there is no President to vote for and there is no person that is in charge because he or she got the most votes. The only person you get to vote for in a national election is the equivalent of a House Representative in the US. Whichever party gets the least no votes gets to form the government. ( A no vote is when you vote for somebody that can't possibly win because you cannot stand to actually vote for somebody that might)

d kirby
12-06-2012, 09:35 PM
Uncle Pete, I sure wish that I could express some of my feelings and thoughts as you have done because we both are thinking along the same lines.

So I will just say thank you and well said!

Dave

uncle pete
12-06-2012, 09:58 PM
Flylo,
Yeah you have at least a fair idea about some of the B.S. were dealing with. No one ever said life was fair, I certainly don't expect that. But history repeats itself. "Taxation without representation" and the fecal matter hit the rotary device, "Let them eat cake" and then a sudden gentle breeze around the neck area. Our elected reps in all of our countries need to start taking a good hard look at just how pissed people are becoming. I have some very good friends in the U.S. so I've had a lot of political items forwarded to me over the years, especially the last 4. So I think I have some understanding of a lot of the political problems your dealing with also. I've read a lot about issues in other democratic countries, so Canaduh is certainly not unique. It's not my place to comment or think I have any right to say what's right or wrong with any other country. But maybe I should have said just about any other member no matter where they live could probably say the same as I was.

But if you refer back to Quasi's post, we have certain companies in Canaduh that seem to think they make the rules and Canadians can take it or leave it. KBC Tools just like Quasi mentioned is to me the poster child for that way of doing business. And since KBC and it's CEO uses a program to pick up any mention of their company name, most likely she will be reading this tomorrow morning. At one time I spent a hell of a lot of money with KBC Canaduh, once we got a computer and I learned to fumble my way around, I started doing some comparison shopping. Long story short, I emailed KBC's CEO about their price gouging. Funny enough she phoned me. I still haven't ordered from KBC since that phone call, and her lame explanations about the differences between pricing on her own U.S. and Canadian websites haven't changed my mind. Screw me once then shame on you, screw me twice then shame on me. Treat me fair and I'll be a customer for life.

Edit,
LOL, Sadly Evan your points made me at least chuckle. And while your correct, that doesn't stop our elected clowns from directly and constantly saying this country is a democracy. When John Cretin was PM and my dog heard his voice on TV, he would instantly run for his bed because he knew I was going to start yelling at the tv.

Dave,
Thanks but most times I'm really at a loss for words. I'm just totally fed up with the load of crap were force fed on a daily basis that's presented as the truth from the news companies all the way up to the head fool that for some reason thinks he's somehow important. These people get elected to do a job. Get it done. Having no accountability and no way to remove these elected officials when or if it's needed till the next election really is insanity.

Pete

Zero_Divide
12-06-2012, 10:12 PM
Yesterday I started and mostly completed my own point of view about why things cost 40% more in Canaduh. I decided not to finish it and deleted everything. Maybe I shouldn't have. I love my country...........................But it would take a total fool to not come to the conclusion we as Canadians are being screwed at almost every opportunity, and at just about anything you'd care to name. And no this isn't just idle wineing. I also misspell Canaduh anytime I can. It's my way of less that subtly pointing out the shear stupidity and incompetence of almost anyone who gets elected to run this country. There's far too many times my country makes me really wonder exactly why my Grandfathers fought and died for it. And my next point probably works just as well for any member from the U.S. as it does for us Canadians.

Do you know the exact definition of a democracy? I'll bet you think you do. But when was the last time you made a point of actually looking it up, reading and understanding any dictionary's exact meaning of the term? So maybe you should do that, you don't need me to cut and paste it here. And if your going to tell me my opinions are 100% wrong, then you better have done just that and re read and understood the exact definition of the term. I think anyone that takes the 5 minutes out of their busy lives to do so will get my point.

And I'm sure any Canadian members here can think of more than a few examples of what our elected officials tell us what we are and aren't going to do. CRTC anyone? The ongoing continuous costs to every single product in Canaduh due to that moronic dual language problem, and the dozens of other issues that don't really need to be pointed out since most Canadians already know them. And I'd just like to point out one of the main principals of any democracy is that every single person is an equal, and no one has the right to special treatment. I won't bother even starting with that since to do so you usually get branded as a bigot or worse today. My expectations are that every single person within Canaduh is just that, an equal, no more no less. I don't know of any way to be fairer than that. The realities just don't agree with the definition though. We as voters, and I'm certainly including myself, let this happen. Remember what we were taught in school? Those elected representatives WORK FOR US.

If the above hasn't made you more than slightly pissed off as a voter, then I've wasted my time.

Pete

K. Marx had something to say along the lines "... capital will commit any kind of crime in order to make profit..."
can't say I agree with the guy on too many things, but he had a very good point, his solution to the problem sucked though.

at any rate anyone knows why at this point 3 years after beginning of the recession we in Ontario are still paying 120c for gas?
why oil companies are trying to build routes to ship oil to China? anyone knows this will spike the price even higher and friggin kill our economy!
are they thinking a nation of burger flippers serving rich patrons who came to Canada with bags of money is going to succeed in the long run?
Does somebody think 140$ is a reasonable price for having a pencil sharpener installed on school principal's desk?

meh we are all screwed up

Mcgyver
12-06-2012, 10:31 PM
..... and her lame explanations about the differences between pricing on her own U.S. and Canadian websites haven't changed my mind. Screw me once then shame on you, screw me twice then shame on me. Treat me fair and I'll be a customer for life.


Lame indeed. its worse if you look at the numbers. Suppose they are 40% higher in Canada, and the excuse is its more expensive doing business here. Probably is, slightly.

So that $100 item in the states is $140 here.

What's a reasonable gross margin for that type of business, say 30%?

So the cost is $70. They make $30 gross profit selling in the states and $70 gross profit in Canada - that's a 230% increase in gross proft; it is certainly not 230% more expensive to do business here.

However it is their prerogative; a business should pursue the highest pricing the can and competition is the counter acting force. I suspect they have 40-50% discounts for commercial accounts; the catalogue prices are just what we pay if we don't bring it in from the states. That to is a valid business model; charge an extreme premium knowing you'll lose a lot of business but you're happy with low revenue at a high margin.

What I don't get is why an MSC or the like hasn't come in and taken all the business away....set up a model like digikey; low cost shipping next day delivery all from the US.

The frustrating part is it seems so widespread. A little while ago I wanted a Klein tool pouch, $350 at grainger, $180 from the states. Ugh. Guess where I bought it - I wonder does Grainger sell many? Are so fat dumb and stupid they don't realize people buy from the states when its twice the price here? and you're just nuts to buy a car in Canada, can be 10,000's different (the car co's should be charged with restraint of trade for their shenanigans at preventing cross border sales)

RussZHC
12-06-2012, 11:13 PM
My comment is going to, perhaps, stray a bit far afield...in Manitoba we have one "utility board" that is supposedly acting as watch dog when gas, hydro or other similar want a rate increase for their consumers.
Some provinces making money with their natural resources actually pass along some of the benefit to residents of said province...I may not have the exact understanding but believe Alberta and their oil is one such example, passed along by a lessened or eliminated provincial sales tax.

Our leaders are currently deciding the second rate increase this year for provincial residents, so that hydro can build large capacity so as to ship surplus out of province and sell for a lesser rate than someone in province pays.
How daft is that?

If those markets never fully pan out, the capacity including lines will not be needed, we would then be left with "surplus" which will be sold at an even deeper discount. If those markets pan out fully, there will be a lot of money coming back, none of which, I suspect would ever reach the provincial consumers (as a rebate for example...don't laugh, we had rebates through our provincial auto insurance a couple of times). I suppose it could be argued anything to fill the provincial coffers will less the need for higher taxes. Does anyone really think that would ever happen?

We do this repeatedly to ourselves.
What percentage of the voting age population actually voted last time around? Bottom line of that discussion is usually a very small percentage of the actual population is electing "our" representatives.
I am just as guilty as anyone else of not voting each time I have a chance.

oldtiffie
12-06-2012, 11:50 PM
I am pretty sure that the only ones the dealers. retailers, manufacturers etc. are accoountable to are their shareholders - and not Joe Public - nor need nor should they.

If you don't like the product or servive - don't buy or use it.

The dealers etc. are quite within their rights to sell at what-ever price and margin/mark-up they like - the market and competition will soon sort them out.

If some here don't like the "going" or "market" rate - tough.

If the market is paying rates you don't like you either have to match that price to get the product of service you want or go without - your choice.

As it all started off with a general complaing about VP publication costs - the same applies - as I can't see VP giving or feeling compelled or obliged to give all and sundry a comprehensive startement of income and outgoings as well as profit and return on capital etc.

CCWKen
12-07-2012, 12:15 AM
I don't think it's all that complicated. They have to use smaller words for Canadians and it takes more of them to explain anything. That takes more paper and ink--About 40% more.
:)

uncle pete
12-07-2012, 12:24 AM
Mcgyver,
Yep all very valid points. You and I both know KBC gets to play the game they do only because of that lack of competition. Who knows? have there been inside agreements between various companies about just who gets to play on who's turf? I'm not saying that's right and I'm not ruling it out either.But considering our 30 million plus population, it's sure strange KBC is about the only major and established machine tool supplier in the great white north. I have no issues with any company that tries to maximise their profits, and you and I think the same. I just don't like being played for a fool. So were both doing the same thing by ordering from the U.S. Free enterprise is a two way street even in Canaduh.

Zero_Divide,
Not all that long ago I was living in B.C. and also traveling to either Ontario or Quebec weekly and doing so for about 6 years. I live in a tiny town about 3 hours east of Vancouver. Penticton B.C. is just over an hour east of me. I can assure you no matter what your paying for fuel I'm paying at least 10 cents a liter more than you since Toronto has done so for the full 6 years I was traveling and working in Ontario, the exact same thing is true for the prices in Penticton. And those b trains hauling fuel to Penticton either go through Princeton, or one way or another travel from Vancouver, Calgary, or Edmonton to Penticton. You can pretty well say Ontario has no real oil wells of it's own, but there's no doubt your burning at least some fuel refined from B.C. oil wells pumped to Ontario cheaper than I can buy it here in my home town. But again you've pointed out another "bend over" issue both of us are dealing with. Why the huge rush to export our oil reserves? So who is getting paid off to allow this to happen? Why the overpriced fuel in both our provinces? Because you can bet something like this isn't just random chance. And I'm not the paranoid type who thinks there's a conspiracy around every corner. If I had to guess, those highly paid lobbiest's in Ottawa sure do a fantastic job of keeping business practices that should be illegal, legal. It's just too bad our politicians can't or won't work just as hard for us.

Russ, I happen to think your points are 100% OT. Rate increases for natural gas have happened in B.C. so supply pipelines into the U.S. could be partially funded. And I'm certainly not anti U.S. I'm against paying for something I shouldn't be.

Pete

flylo
12-07-2012, 12:37 AM
That's all true oldtiffe but all sellers do have to satisfy Joe Public if Joe is where they make their profit & seems to me old Joe is pretty fed up about now. GREED is a terrible master!

Evan
12-07-2012, 04:03 AM
at any rate anyone knows why at this point 3 years after beginning of the recession we in Ontario are still paying 120c for gas?

Because the oil used to make your gasoline is from the North Sea and it is running $110 a barrel compared to $60 for Alberta Dilbit. Oil moves north to south in this country so Eastern Canada imports Brent at the highest price. Because there is almost no pipeline capacity from west to east we have a large surplus of production capacity. The logical place to ship it is China since the pipeline will be 1/3 the length to get the oil to the tankers. Funny thing is we are also paying $1.19 a litre here in WL because we simply get screwed by the refineries. It's about the same price in Vancouver except they have about 18 cents more tax than we do.

BTW, we already ship oil to China. Trans Mountain Pipeline has a pipeline that transports 300,000 barrels per day from Alberta to Vancouver.

oldtiffie
12-07-2012, 04:31 AM
That's all true oldtiffe but all sellers do have to satisfy Joe Public if Joe is where they make their profit & seems to me old Joe is pretty fed up about now. GREED is a terrible master!

It really doesn't matter all that much to dealers etc. if Joe Public is grizzling and still paying the going rate for the service or item that he buys anyway what ever his reason/ing.

VP magazines seemed to be the initial point of complaint and grizzling here - but I recall George B saying that the sales are reasonable and increasing all be it slowly and that they are doing quite well - all things considered.

There is nothing stopping any body else starting up in competion - perhaps to replace those who fell by the wayside.

VP magazines seem to be the standard set for others to equal or exceed - if they can.

As I understand it, not all members here subscribe to one or more VP magazines and those that don't subscribe at all are getting this BBS for free at the expense of the magazine subsribers and advertisers - at least in part anyway.

As it costs nothing to anyone to be a member of this BBS, it seems that at least part of its cost is covered by subscriptions and the rest by advertising etc. which if removed would have the effect of increasing magazine subscriptions or in the worst case to have this BBS "fold" first followed perhaps by the magazines.

The advertisers seem to think they get good value from those who buy (or read) the magazines and they keep coming.

If the subscriptions and advertising were not enough to cover the wages of the magazine Editorial staff (George BUlliss very much included) and if VP decided to wind-up or "fold" the magazines its a fair guess that the BBS and Editors will "go" too and the grizzlers will have nothing to grizzle about nor anyone to grizzle to - Editors and members of this BBS - and will have achieved nothing at all.

But if there are any who grizzle or moan about anything just for the sake of it - I take no notice of it - and they have my sympathy.

MrFluffy
12-07-2012, 07:39 AM
The forum acts as a advertising medium. I had never heard of VP before coming here. And all the people who post here help put it in the rankings of google and make it a useful resource.
If it was just a empty forum, it wouldn't work. So while there are people here on the forum who dont "contribute" to VP directly by buying the magazines currently, just by posting and interacting on the forum they make it a better advert for VP to sell their magazines. The forum users are partly the product, not useless parasites that VP throw a bone to out the goodness of their corporate hearts.

Jon Heron
12-07-2012, 09:05 AM
Yep here in Canada everybody loves to bitch and moan about our bloated self serving politicians and the insane amount of over taxation up here, but in the end we just roll over and take it... Nothing ever changes...
Dont get me started, this last fiasco with Mcguinty makes my blood boil... Grrrr.... :mad:


You can pretty well say Ontario has no real oil wells of it's own,
Actually you may be surprised to know there are several active oil and gas wells here in Ontario. http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/OGSR/2ColumnSubPage/STEL02_167105.html
Cheers,
Jon

lazlo
12-07-2012, 09:18 AM
Lame indeed. its worse if you look at the numbers. Suppose they are 40% higher in Canada, and the excuse is its more expensive doing business here. Probably is, slightly.


How much do you guys (Canadians) pay for a subscription to a mainstream American magazine? Time, Vogue, Wired, ... ?

oldtiffie
12-07-2012, 11:44 PM
Here is the OP:




http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/L763

Why?

Some of the complainants here - who mainly seem to be mainly from Canada - really don't know or appreciate how well off they are as regards street prices for Machinist's Workshop (by VP) at least.

I received my VP "Machinst's Workshop" this week. The costs were an eye-opener.

The US street price is $5.50

The Canadian street price is $7.95

Subscription costs for 1 year (6 issues) are:

USA: $26.95

Canada: $38.95

International: $41.95


I have not yet seen one complaint from the "International" members where a slow postal system takes longer than many/any other places than all/most in the USA and Canada..

Zero_Divide
12-08-2012, 12:26 AM
Because the oil used to make your gasoline is from the North Sea and it is running $110 a barrel compared to $60 for Alberta Dilbit. Oil moves north to south in this country so Eastern Canada imports Brent at the highest price. Because there is almost no pipeline capacity from west to east we have a large surplus of production capacity. The logical place to ship it is China since the pipeline will be 1/3 the length to get the oil to the tankers. Funny thing is we are also paying $1.19 a litre here in WL because we simply get screwed by the refineries. It's about the same price in Vancouver except they have about 18 cents more tax than we do.

BTW, we already ship oil to China. Trans Mountain Pipeline has a pipeline that transports 300,000 barrels per day from Alberta to Vancouver.

Yes! Once they increase the capacity to ship to china our gas will be even more expensive.
Because Chinese are helping their manufacturing sector heavily.

IE. Our company outsources some jobs to china when shipping/time costs allow.
So the molds and dies cost them about the same as just plain material would have cost us here in Canada.

Simply put their finished product is cheaper than the material we would have to buy to make it here in Canada.

How the hell anybody can compete with that?

And the big part of the problem is energy. It costs Chinese less money to mine metal, produce steel, manufacture and transport. Plus almost slave labor. But the main point is this: if energy costs keep going higher the way they are now we all will be done for. No super energy/time efficient process is going to beat a guy with a file working 14 hrs a day for a piece of bread.

One last question for somebody to answer...
How come electricity costs keep going higher when our demand in Ontario has fallen like 30% from pre-recession levels? Jeez they had to pay Americans to take some surplus energy because there was no room in Ontario for it!

</rant>

JohnAlex141r
12-08-2012, 07:45 AM
Oldtiffie;

Just an FYI, not a comment nor criticism, or..

Whilst I'm keeping out of the general thread here, I think what irks most is that (something like) 90% of the Canadians live really close to the US border. Before 9/11, crossing the border was really not a problem - in some towns, it was as easy as walking from one side of the bar to the other. Growing up 10 miles from the border, crossing was as simple as saying "hi". No ID required.

While we like to poke fun at the USA, (and ourselves) I think *everyone* here is rooting for the USA to get its game together again, and I think the USA election was followed here in Canada more than our last federal election was.

I read recently that when the USA uses the term "foreign oil", they refer to (say) Saudi Arabia. Oil from Canada is not considered foreign. Oil flows North/South - here in the east part of Canada, our oil/petrol/gasoline comes from the Gulf of Mexico, via ship into Portland Maine, then by pipeline.

I could keep going, but the general idea is that we (US & Canada) really are tied in many ways, and have been since the first permanent European settlers came.

Now, if only our southern neighbours would learn to say "out" and "about" properly! (old joke - slight difference in accents)

Another JohnS.

d kirby
12-08-2012, 05:23 PM
Tiffie, If you had taken the time to look at who the OP was, and what he wrote, you would know why the majority of the posters are from Canada, and since you didn't I will post the question again just for you.

WHY DOES HSM COST 40% MORE FOR CANADIANS?


Since I am a Canadian I will respond to this thread in any damn way that I want.
You would have done well in this country as a politician just by repeating the same old YOU SHOULD BE GRATEFUL FOR WHAT YOU HAVE and stop your bitching.

I hope that this will enlighten you to your observation that NOT ONE COMPLAINT FROM THE INTERNATIONAL MEMBERS HERE.

Just so you know ( not that I really give a ****) but I subscribed to Projects in Metal & HSM for myself and another HSM for my mentor and teacher. These were not just for a month or two but for close to 2 decades. Back then we were always led to believe that the price difference was always because of the difference in the dollar. So I kept my mouth shut and paid the price BECAUSE I was so grateful, like I was told to do.
Then for a long time there was not any difference in the dollar, in fact for quite some time our dollar was worth more But guess what? No price adjustments were ever made.
SO instead of bending over and being grateful, I put an end to buying the magazines. Not just Village Press magazines but others from the U.S.A too
Respect for a business and respect for customers goes both ways and I feel there is a lack of respect by Village Press towards my concerns. There is no damn way that the price of a magazine should be almost twice as much as what an American pays for the same thing.

Have a good day!!! (and not because I told you to)
Dave

sasquatch
12-08-2012, 06:29 PM
I checked the ad for subscriptions to the four magazines posted.
It is not just 40% as was originally posted.

Total cost for those 4 subscriptions in the USA totals $113.80 (No sale discount in this.)

Total cost for the same 4 to Canada is $163.80 .

oldtiffie
12-08-2012, 06:42 PM
Each person's decision is his alone based on what-ever criteria he uses or chooses.

If he likes the product but not the price he either buys it never the less - or he doesn't.

Its all about how he feels about it on the day.

No one is forcing him or anyone else to buy the VP magazines or anything else either.

I guess its a matter of "nice to have" (optional) or "have to have" (essential).

I have a fair bit of my two-year subscription - by post here to Australia - left but I think I might assess it a bit more closely than I otherwise might next time the "reminder" from VP comes in.

I only have two recent copies in the house. They too will be given away next time I am passing a member of a small "hobby/machinist's" club and it like all my previous VP magazines will be circulated among the members. They do a lot of good there as some at least of the members could not afford the "cost to Australia". I'd junk them otherwise as I don't keep them - so they do a lot of good for a lot of people - which would not be the case if I kept them.

oldtiffie
12-08-2012, 06:58 PM
I would think that the "40% extra for Canada" is part of the "up-front" costs that VP/George Bulliss has to pay to get it into Canada from the USA and he in turn has to include it into his subscription costing before he can/will post it to Canada - or anywhere else.