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View Full Version : Installed a new longer bench top today, plumbing question.



vpt
12-28-2012, 07:08 PM
Thanks to a good buddy of mine donating his old kitchen to me when he was renovating I now have a longer bench. I have no plumbing in my garage but always wanted a sink for washing up and rinsing parts. My idea is a simple 5 gallon bucket with a hole in the top for the drain from the sink and a line out the side to feed a 110v pump (switched, thinking fountain pump) that feeds the faucet. Looking for good ideas for quick hookup and disconnect for removing the pail to dump out and refills. I am also thinking of the same deal for the dishwasher you see in the pic. I hear they work good with simple green for cleaning parts?

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/3995/newbench033.jpg

http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/1450/newbench034.jpg

Scottike
12-28-2012, 07:20 PM
I don't think a small fountain pump will have the flow you'll want.
They lose flow pretty quickly as head increases and larger capacity
ones get very spendy very fast.
I think I would use a small (360 GPH) bilge pump for a boat -
It's 12 volt but could run off a 2+ amp wall wort.
Their designed to deal with nasty stuff that gets into the bilges
Diesel, bits of bait, antifreeze, dirt, oil, etc.
About $20-25

edit: and they're submersible, so just drop it in the bucket
and run your hose out the top.

oxford
12-28-2012, 09:36 PM
Where are you going to be dumping the bucket at? If the answer is anywhere other than your septic or city sewer system, why not just put a drain to the outside and forget the bucket? Are you planning a holding tank for the water? I don't see another reason for the pump. I am not sure if they all are, but my dishwasher required a hot water line for it.

vpt
12-28-2012, 10:31 PM
Well I was thinking of recycling the water in the bucket for a week or so and then dump it out and bring fresh water in since I don't have a water supply in the shop.

oxford
12-28-2012, 10:54 PM
I got ya. I thought you were using the bucket for the drain only and were supplying the water from outside and pumping it in. If it were me I would try and find a water source if possible, even if it was a hose run from the house. Probably wouldn't work so well in the winter though. Clean water would be more important than just recycled dirty water. You could just make a built in parts washer tank in place of the sink that would be less work.

As for the dishwasher, I think you would need a pump that puts out what a water supply line from your house would. I would also look into filtering the used simple green on the return back into the bucket. A submersible heater may also be helpful for the bucket of simple green.

Dr Stan
12-28-2012, 11:14 PM
I'm going to assume your shop is in an attached garage. Running water & sewer lines under a slab is not as difficult as it was in the past. You no longer have to break up the concrete. Instead you have horizontal holes bored under the slab for your lines. You may even be able to run your supply lines through the wall if your house has a crawl space or basement. In the long run I think you'd be better off & happier with the set up with a proper pumping system.

Fasttrack
12-29-2012, 12:09 AM
Around here, boring horizontal holes is pretty spendy, but otherwise I agree with Dr. Stan. I have completely revamped the plumbing in my house and even doing it the right way is pretty simple. If you want to bodge it, a saddle tap in an existing line is a pretty simple solution. Run it to some pex or cpvc out to the garage. Just keep in mind that saddle tap gaskets will harden with age and can start to weep or, if bumped, can turn into a full fledged, water-spraying type leak.

Black Forest
12-29-2012, 04:11 AM
Just go buy a parts washer and be done with the job and take the sink out or make a cover and go on. Or just use an overhead gravity feed tank to feed your sink. 5 gallon bucket under the sink. Simple rag filter over the catch bucket under the sink. When full dump it in the overhead storage tank.

herbet999
12-29-2012, 07:49 AM
I'm trying to think what parts you would wash with water. How about a solvent based parts washer?

vpt
12-29-2012, 08:48 AM
This is a detached shop with no way to get a water supply to or in. The dish washer has a heater in it already for heating the water. I also already have a solvent parts washer but to get parts real clean they should be washed off in water after the solvent. Plus my paint guns don't like dirty solvent baths. I also won't have any water in the winter in the shop, this would only be during the summer months. The one big reason I want the sink is for washing my hands when they are very dirty and I don't want to take the greasy slimy junk in the house to wash off. I don't plan to get super clean with the recycled water but enough so that I don't make a mess out of my house when I come in.

I just remember how nice having a sink in the shop is from school and I find myself saying many times "boy I wish I had a sink and some water right about now". :)

Dr Stan
12-29-2012, 09:03 AM
My shop is detached and has running hot & cold water & is hooked up to the sewer system. Its just a matter of digging trenches, laying lines, and hooking them up the the existing system. I installed mine while I was building the shop, so that made it much easier to run the supply & sewer pipes through the slab. However retrofitting the shop should not be that much trouble. Your sink & dish washer are against an exterior wall so drilling holes in the floor and just digging a trench under the footing is more a matter of time & effort. I had to do something similar to connect with the water line under floor of the house. I do not know what your building codes are like in your neck of the woods, but I'd make sure you go below the frost line. I only had to go 3 feet, but I suspect you'll have to go at least 6 if not 8 feet.

If you're planning to only have water in the summer it should not be a major engineering effort to plumb the inside of the shop and just supply it via a garden hose in the summer. A larger hose run to a sewer line clean out should take care of the waster water. However, I strongly suspect you'll like running water in the shop so much you'll soon be digging trenches.

vpt
12-29-2012, 09:12 AM
One problem with running lines is the shop is on a separate lot not part of my house lot. Running a garden hose wouldn't be a bad deal but I really don't want a hose laying across my lawn all summer and have to move it every time I mow.

oxford
12-29-2012, 09:17 AM
You should be able to get the hose low enough through the grass to not have the mower hit it. I had to do this with an extension cord to my shop.

Dr Stan
12-29-2012, 10:18 AM
One problem with running lines is the shop is on a separate lot not part of my house lot. Running a garden hose wouldn't be a bad deal but I really don't want a hose laying across my lawn all summer and have to move it every time I mow.

What is the distance from your shop to your house & how well do you get along with the land owner(s) between your shop & your house?

jkilroy
12-29-2012, 10:24 AM
Get some kind of tank and capture rain water off of your roof.

Dr Stan
12-29-2012, 12:54 PM
Get some kind of tank and capture rain water off of your roof.

that's probably the best idea so far.

rsal
12-30-2012, 11:06 AM
treat it like a irrigation line. Trench a line in about a foot deep with stand pipes on each end with hose connections. Make a short connector jumper from the out side faucet on both sides. Plumb the inside with whatever you want to use. Just before winter, use compressed air to blow out the line of the water in it.

The waste water would be the issue. If it is "grey" water, you could just let it run out into the yard but if "black" water it would have to go to a system somewhere. It could be pumped so it would be possible to run it to the cleanout of the your disposal system the same way water is let in. Then disconnect and purge prior to winter and cap everything off (or place valves at the end to isolate it). You will need something or else you will spend all summer carrying off buckets of water to dump out.

If adjacent lot is ever sold, cut line at property line and abandon in place.

vincemulhollon
12-31-2012, 09:54 AM
Or just use an overhead gravity feed tank to feed your sink. 5 gallon bucket under the sink. Simple rag filter over the catch bucket under the sink. When full dump it in the overhead storage tank.

The second best part about a tank design, is when you have a leak (and you probably will have a leak someday) this limits the damage to 5 gal total and never a drop more. I can survive dumping a 5 gal pail but I can't survive a 1/2 inch supply pipe cracking in half for 12 hours or whatever. The best part about a tank design is I've never heard of a municipality requiring a plumbing permit for an unconnected tank (fundamentally its like a tropical fish aquarium, or more precisely, its exactly like an RV trailer). Another interesting plumbing permit issue is screw it into the wall and you might need a permit, but leave it on wheels, even if it never moves, and its just a "temporary appliance".

Also just because you Might be able to get away with it WRT to code because "its not a real sink" doesn't mean you don't need to replace all the power outlets with GFCIs... And properly ground the plumbing.

If you live where I live, you need mesh or something to keep the mosquitos out.

If you put a brick or just a large river rock in the upper tank, then it'll be impossible to flood the lower tank because the upper will now only hold 4.9 gallons whereas the drain will hold the full 5.

I would not recirculate the water... or at least placard the heck out of it... visitors will assume its drinkable. Also frankly my most common use would be washing out cut/scrape before cracking open the first aid kit, and washing out a cut with fermented mystery grime would be a medical disaster. A 55 gallon drum might last a whole season... Throw in a chlorine tablet once in a while if you intend to drink or use for medical purposes.

bborr01
12-31-2012, 11:09 AM
Hi Andy,

I built a portable water pumping station from a used small bladder pressure tank that I had laying around and a 12 volt rv pump. I think it would work well for what you are doing. Mine is for the 5th wheel so I don't have to pour 50# totes of water into the side of the 5th wheel. I will post a pic later.

http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp89/bborr01/Craigslist%20May%202011/20121231_111354.jpg
http://i400.photobucket.com/albums/pp89/bborr01/Craigslist%20May%202011/20121231_111416.jpg

This thing puts out about 50 psi I would guess by comparing it to my home water system. You also could probably find a small 120v pump and do basically the same thing.

Forgot to mention that when I am on the road, I pump the unit up fully and take it along under pressure. It is a complete 2 gallon or so portable water system.

Brian

vpt
12-31-2012, 11:16 AM
All kinds of good ideas flyin around, I'm just taking it all in right now, keep them coming!

The shop is around 100 feet from the house downhill.

One of the reasons I am leaning toward the bucket idea is I can use it for the dish washer as well for washing parts in heated water and then take the bucket to the house and dump it. For the water just used for hands and stuff I can just dump outside. I like the chlorine tablet idea!

bborr01
12-31-2012, 11:48 AM
Andy,

Depending how much space you want to devote to water storage, you could use 25 gallon food grade barrels with screw on tops. I have a pair of them set side by side and plumbed together with rv fittings and plastic hose. I even added a plastic tube to the side of one of them for a sight gage. You still do have to get the water there though.

Brian

Mike Burdick
12-31-2012, 12:56 PM
... this would only be during the summer months. The one big reason I want the sink is for washing my hands when they are very dirty and I don't want to take the greasy slimy junk in the house to wash off. I don't plan to get super clean with the recycled water but enough so that I don't make a mess out of my house when I come in. ... :)


On the supply side, what about using a garden hose for the warm months supply? On the waste side, do you have room for drain sump that can be a hole in the ground outside the of the building, roughly 4' x4' x 8' deep, lined with a filter fabric and filled with 1-1/2" washed rock? This "drain sump" can be covered with a couple of feet of dirt and lawn planted over the top.

Since you won't be putting "solids" down the drain, the sump basically serves as a septic system.

.