PDA

View Full Version : Moore & Wright Precision Tools???



luthor
01-01-2013, 07:13 AM
A very basic measuring tool but how did they get it so wrong?
Their quality control is certainly off by a few percent or is that degrees?

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e121/Luhtor/DSC00310_zps8877fb64.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e121/Luhtor/60-55_zpse2668134.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e121/Luhtor/55-60_zpsd99ccb4d.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e121/Luhtor/475BA_zpsb7f6c7cd.jpg

willmac
01-01-2013, 07:40 AM
Even without measuring the angles, that gauge looks really bad. What about the 55% marking and the hole punched through the printing, which looks like very cheap screened text. I would not discount the possibility that they have gone way down market with the cheapest possible Chinese outsourced gauge, but it is also possible that the whole thing is just a cheap copy.

Tony Pratt
01-01-2013, 07:44 AM
Sad to say but Moore & Wright may be doing a bit of "badge" engineering i.e. sourcing the parts from the cheapest supplier and marking them up as made by M&W, a lot of the quality companies are I believe doing this to survive? Then again it may just be a one off but I would imagine they are stamped out and you would hope the tooling was passed off as ok before production started.
Tony

IanPendle
01-01-2013, 07:52 AM
Why are they using % when they should be using degrees? Very sloppy item whether UK or China made.

Ian.

Barrington
01-01-2013, 07:54 AM
This is what a real one looks like:

http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/ss82/MrBarrington/GAG_200.jpg

Cheers

.

SGW
01-01-2013, 09:04 AM
Quite possibly a counterfeit.

Jaakko Fagerlund
01-01-2013, 09:57 AM
It got flipped around for printing, but that 47.5 degrees is still of based on your measurement.

Dr Stan
01-01-2013, 10:07 AM
Quite possibly a counterfeit.

exactly what I was thinking

Mcgyver
01-01-2013, 11:21 AM
Quite possibly a counterfeit.

interesting....luther whats its pedigree; did it come from a reputable source?

The consumer has a power today like never before; 20 years ago all you could do was be annoyed/return it. Today you with this thread you can have 1,000's see it and empathize. Its sort of for not though if they're not aware - consider sending the link to the office of the president. Despite the frequent ignorant rhetoric, senior execs are bright and the good ones know brand is the most valuable thing they have, but nothing changes if they don't know.

What would you do if you were the President of M&W and became aware of this?

willmac
01-01-2013, 12:03 PM
The Moore and Wright brand is owned by Bowers Metrology. I'm not sure who owns them these days. I have a lot of M&W equipment as would most older UK machinists. The quality of that equipment was good, perhaps not the best available, but certainly good enough. I really hope that the problem is just counterfeiting and not 'real' M&W product. I do agree that that in either case a complaint to the president of the company is definitely appropriate. Product like that will damage their brand beyond recall.

JCHannum
01-01-2013, 12:05 PM
I doubt that a chicom shop would go to the trouble to counterfeit a M&W threading gage. The dozen or so they would sell would hardly be worthwhile. The counterfeit money is in Nike and such.

It is more than likely an example what many have discussed here on how the chicom product can end up when the manufacturer(? agent?) is left to his own devices and not continuously monitored.

It is also a good example of lots of this merchandise in that it kind of looks like what it should be, but just doesn't get it right in the translation. Not a big deal when it is a simple gage, but when the same philosophy is applied to a lathe, nothing good will result.

aboard_epsilon
01-01-2013, 12:11 PM
what equipment / program did you use to measure those angles

all the best.markj

rkepler
01-01-2013, 12:51 PM
Looks to me that it was marked on the "back". That's still no excuse for the errors in angles.

willmac
01-01-2013, 01:17 PM
Its not just the errors in angles; the text itself is incorrect. That is not a one-off error, the whole batch will be using the same incorrect screen printed text. Incidentally, I have checked pre-ground HSS screwcutting tools on a toolmakers microscope before. They were out by at least half a degree, not symetrically, which I would consider unacceptable. The combination of that faulty gauge and those faulty tools means that screw threads could be badly out.

Where can you buy a guaranteed quality screwcutting gauge regardless of price?

loply
01-01-2013, 02:21 PM
To be fair, if you're getting into grinding tools to within half a degree, you should probably be setting the angle on your grinding jig / T+C grinder, not eyeballing it on a metal template? The distance is too short to detect a deviation, I would imagine, let alone correct it reliably or quickly.

oldtiffie
01-01-2013, 02:25 PM
I don't use screw-cutting guages (aka "fish") if I can help it but gets used occassionally as I check all my angles with known angle gauges or a good protractor.

I've checked my screw-cutting gauges and they are OK.

http://www.moore-and-wright.com/



Now part of the eminent Bowers Metrology Group and with production facilities in the UK and China, Moore & Wright continues its commitment to supplying worldwide industry with high quality, affordable products. Its ongoing pledge to research and development should ensure that Moore & Wright remains at the forefront of global innovation.


http://www.bowers.co.uk/#

http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&tbo=d&rlz=1R2IRFC_enAU360&sclient=psy-ab&q=bowers+metrology+uk+ltd&rlz=1R2IRFC_enAU360&oq=bowers+metrology&gs_l=hp.1.3.0l4.0.0.3.3931.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.le s%3B..0.0...1c.XmT9Xef-DY4&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.1355534169,d.dGY&fp=def9f3f538eb70d&bpcl=40096503&biw=1920&bih=818

For what its worth, I doubt that other than a large number of seperate complaints, I doubt that it will have any effect other than a standard PR reply.

As the OP is aware, ultimately you are your own QA checker as by putting it on the market "as is" M&W has inferred that it passed its own QA.

Timleech
01-01-2013, 04:18 PM
Main problem is, it was printed on the wrong side & should never have reached the market.

Other than that, the printing is cr*p and some of the angles may be out a little bit. Are they really out enough to matter, for the intended use?

The OP's measurements are open to a certain measure of 'interpretation'

Tim

Mcgyver
01-01-2013, 04:19 PM
To be fair, if you're getting into grinding tools to within half a degree, you should probably be setting the angle on your grinding jig / T+C grinder, not eyeballing it on a metal template? The distance is too short to detect a deviation, I would imagine, let alone correct it reliably or quickly.

My experience has been the opposite. I've a univise I made but unless you have a way to set things with a sine bar, its hard to grind the 60 degrees perfectly. It's easy otoh to stone to perfection with the fishtail gauge. - perfection being light along the edge is block out.

oldtiffie
01-01-2013, 04:28 PM
Most good protractors are cailbrated to 0.1 degree (6 minutes) which is ~ 1 : 572 or about 0.0017" per inch. Interpolate to 0.05 degrees (3 minutes) which is about 0.00087" per inch.

Precison angle guages are even better - much better.

http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa294/oldtiffie/measuring/Angleplates1.jpg

oldtiffie
01-01-2013, 04:47 PM
To make a "male" check for a M&W "fish" "female" slot, put a bit of scrap in a 3-jaw chuck on a rotary table and cut the 60 or 55 degrees for DIN/ISO/UNC/UNF etc, or as required for acme threads.

6" rotary tables are calibratedto 20 arc seconds (20/3600 degree) = 1/180 degree which is 1 in 10,313 or 0.000097" (say 0.0001") inches per inch.

All of this is common shop tools and knowledge.

Machinery's Hand Book has something to say about the accuracy required for screw thread angles - its wider than some might imagine.

aboard_epsilon
01-01-2013, 05:19 PM
if you make both tools ..for internal and external threading with those gauges ..everything will be ok ...

may be even better ...as most bought in nuts are quite sloppy.

you've got to be a pretty anal person to be bothered about a little over 1/2 of a degree .

I don't think ive ever made a tool that is within 1 degree or been bothered with any tool that is 1 degree out never mind 1/2 a degree .

by that i mean there is an approximation of 60 degrees and 55 degrees there ..though labelled wrong .

all the best..markj

willmac
01-01-2013, 05:59 PM
I agree that half a degree out would not make much difference for most cases. However I would be unhappy about an error of nearly a degree in a gauge. As far as I am concerned a gauge should be a lot more accurate than the features it is intended to measure or set. An acceptable error of ± 2.5º would mean that .the Whitworth and metric parts of the gauge could be the same angle

luthor
01-01-2013, 06:53 PM
what equipment / program did you use to measure those angles

all the best.markj

Mark, I used a USB Microscope with measurement software, I had it mounted to the head of my vertical milling machine to allow accurate positioning.

Mcgyver
01-01-2013, 06:55 PM
you've got to be a pretty anal person to be bothered about a little over 1/2 of a degree .

I don't think Ive ever made a tool that is within 1 degree or been bothered with any tool that is 1 degree out never mind 1/2 a degree .


how are you quantifying this? I don't know that i've done one what wouldn't be at least better than a degree.

I just took an image of an acme tool in a gauge i did awhile ago and drew a line 1 degree away from the edge (shown in white on the image below); imo it would seem really odd hold that up to the light and say it was good enough. degrees can look really big when fitting to a gauge like this. imo its not that hard to get them spot on and manual is imo the easiest way, its just a few interations of stone, check, stone, check.

I agree with Bill....a tool from a premium vendor, especially a gauge, should be relied up to be an order of magnitude better than what even the most fastidious user would require

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b201/michael0100/threadinggauge1-large.jpg

oldtiffie
01-01-2013, 07:00 PM
The"fish" is a very old type tool used fro hand-grinding and setting up screwing tools - it does its job moderately well.

If you are using inserts in a standard holder, the tool will be a correct 60/55 degree angle symetrical about/with a line normal to the lathe axis and very parallel to the tool-holder side face.

That being so the (left) side face of the tool holder will be parallel to the face of the lathe chuck or face-plate - which is very easy to set up. If the parallelism of the tool-holder is say 4" long and is set to within 1/64" (both ends) the error will be 1/64" over 4" = ((4)/(1/64)) = 1/256 = 0.004. arcsin 0.004 = 0.23 degrees which is pretty close. Getting to 1/2 x 1/64 = 1/128 = 0.114 degrees which is even closer - and all done with a Machinist's ruler calibrated to 1/64".

When I hand-grind a say 60 degree screwing tool I gring the left face of the screwing tool 30 degrees off-set right - using a protractor - and then grind the right cutting face to 30 degrees left off-set using the left side of the tool (which will be parallel to the chuck face).

I usually just move the carriage left and press the tool against the chuck etc. and then clamp the tool.

All of this can be done at the pedestal grinder and a good protractor.

And not a "fish" in sight.

luthor
01-01-2013, 07:11 PM
[QUOTE=Mcgyver;820026]interesting....luther whats its pedigree; did it come from a reputable source?

It came from the Australian Agent for M&W. They must have quite a supply of these faulty gauges as this one was supplied a couple of years ago and just recently I received a few more with the same problems.

Mike Hunter
01-01-2013, 07:55 PM
I still would not discount a knock-off, it seems our Chinese friends are counterfeiting everything…. from tooth paste to high priced vintage wines, if there is money to be made...nothing is off limits or too small.

.RC.
01-01-2013, 07:55 PM
I will only believe what the calibration sheet says... You need to post a copy of the calibration sheet...

luthor
01-01-2013, 08:10 PM
They must have forgotten to include the cal. sheet RC, the best I can do is quote directly from their own description of the MW-200: Features & Benefits

Traditional engineers screw cutting gauge
Suitable for most standard metric and imperial thread forms
Accurately milled angles for precise evaluation of thread form

oldtiffie
01-02-2013, 01:52 AM
I still would not discount a knock-off, it seems our Chinese friends are counterfeiting everything…. from tooth paste to high priced vintage wines, if there is money to be made...nothing is off limits or too small.



if there is money to be made...nothing is off limits or too small


In many parts of the world, that would be a pretty fair assessment of the average US business people.

Boostinjdm
01-02-2013, 03:47 AM
The"fish" is a very old type tool used fro hand-grinding and setting up screwing tools - it does its job moderately well.

Nah...nevermind...

oldtiffie
01-02-2013, 04:21 AM
interesting....luther whats its pedigree; did it come from a reputable source?



It came from the Australian Agent for M&W. They must have quite a supply of these faulty gauges as this one was supplied a couple of years ago and just recently I received a few more with the same problems.


I still would not discount a knock-off, it seems our Chinese friends are counterfeiting everything…. from tooth paste to high priced vintage wines, if there is money to be made...nothing is off limits or too small.

If its a "Chinese knock-off" its odd that it was supplied - several times - over a period by the Australian agent for Moore & Wright as a genuine M&W item.

So if its "Chinese" its been marketed as "M&W" irrespective of where it was made although I guess the OP could have presumed that they were made in in the M&W USA factory with high USA standards.

You can easily test the 60 degree angle by setting the "fish" over a lathe centre which should be pretty close to 60 degrees.

Oldguy
01-02-2013, 06:14 AM
Moore and Wright aren't the only ones that can't get it right. I have a PEC threading gage that I bought probably 20 years ago that isn't too good. I almost ordered a Brown & Sharpe gage from Grizzly, until I took a good look at the photo on their web site. Use the "magnify" feature to check out this "Made in USA" gage.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Threading-Gauge/T20287

Makes my old PEC gage look pretty good. So much for US quality.

Glenn

luthor
01-02-2013, 07:29 AM
I see what you mean Glenn, probably not much better than the M&W.

Dr Stan
01-02-2013, 09:53 AM
Moore and Wright aren't the only ones that can't get it right. I have a PEC threading gage that I bought probably 20 years ago that isn't too good. I almost ordered a Brown & Sharpe gage from Grizzly, until I took a good look at the photo on their web site. Use the "magnify" feature to check out this "Made in USA" gage.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Threading-Gauge/T20287

Makes my old PEC gage look pretty good. So much for US quality.

Glenn

That's just horrible. :(

90LX_Notch
01-02-2013, 12:15 PM
I have that same B&S gage that I bought 3 years ago from ENCO. It's fine. It's ashame that Grizzly used a defective gage for the picture.

uncle pete
01-02-2013, 03:32 PM
I still would not discount a knock-off, it seems our Chinese friends are counterfeiting everything…. from tooth paste to high priced vintage wines, if there is money to be made...nothing is off limits or too small.

While it probably is a genuine M & W with a very apparent lack of pride in what the name actually stands for. Don't discount the amount of counterfeiting that does go on. A couple of years ago Mitutoyo to name just one company had and may still have a warning on their websites about this exact problem. They showed the very minor and hard to detect differences in the instructions, packaging, and the equipment itself. It's a lot more common than we normally would think. Mike is 100% correct, if there's a buck to be made? Somebody will make a knock off. I've even seen a few unbelievable dirt cheap but supposedly brand new items of Mitutoyo equipment listed on Ebay since I heard about the problem. You'll just need to get them shipped over from various locations in the far east.

There's also another member here, "Sleazy" who showed a Starrett Acme gauge a few years ago that was also defective. But the gauge itself was built to Starrett's usual and normal build quality, the one he had from his particular batch of gauges somehow missed a finish grinding step before they got packaged and sold. Starrett of course ended up replacing it with an apology. Even the best can make a mistake once in awhile. But I would agree that for a proper gauge, then that M & W should have been made far closer than half a degree even if the normal run of the mill threads can be less accurate than that and still work just fine.

Pete

loose nut
01-02-2013, 08:12 PM
Moore and Wright aren't the only ones that can't get it right. I have a PEC threading gage that I bought probably 20 years ago that isn't too good. I almost ordered a Brown & Sharpe gage from Grizzly, until I took a good look at the photo on their web site. Use the "magnify" feature to check out this "Made in USA" gage.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Threading-Gauge/T20287

Makes my old PEC gage look pretty good. So much for US quality.

Glenn

Picture was gone when I tried it.

Oldguy
01-02-2013, 09:35 PM
It's a shame that Grizzly used a defective gage for the picture.

Yep, the photo is gone now. Looks like someone from Grizzly might be reading the forum.

Maybe no spies after all, went back to close the tab for the Grizzly site and the photo was there. It does take a while for the site to load, so we must be overloading their servers.

Glenn

.RC.
01-02-2013, 11:03 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/OzRinger/t20287.jpg

uncle pete
01-02-2013, 11:43 PM
RC,
That's a more than sad picture. I've got a late 90's B&S 558 cylindrical square I bought last year. It is well within their stated accuracy of two 10ths. So is your picture just another fine example of what the bean counters can do to a company and it's name, or just a fluke?

Pete

.RC.
01-03-2013, 12:51 AM
That is the picture from the grizzly site...

Oldguy
01-03-2013, 01:12 AM
That is the picture from the grizzly site...

Thanks .RC., I'll have to learn how to add photos to my posts. (And I get irritated when links don't work because the original page has been changed/moved or taken down.)

Glenn

oldtiffie
01-03-2013, 01:47 AM
interesting....luther whats its pedigree; did it come from a reputable source?




It came from the Australian Agent for M&W. They must have quite a supply of these faulty gauges as this one was supplied a couple of years ago and just recently I received a few more with the same problems.



The Moore and Wright brand is owned by Bowers Metrology. I'm not sure who owns them these days. I have a lot of M&W equipment as would most older UK machinists. The quality of that equipment was good, perhaps not the best available, but certainly good enough. I really hope that the problem is just counterfeiting and not 'real' M&W product. I do agree that that in either case a complaint to the president of the company is definitely appropriate. Product like that will damage their brand beyond recall.




If its a "Chinese knock-off" its odd that it was supplied - several times - over a period by the Australian agent for Moore & Wright as a genuine M&W item.

So if its "Chinese" its been marketed as "M&W" irrespective of where it was made although I guess the OP could have presumed that they were made in in the M&W USA factory with high USA standards.

You can easily test the 60 degree angle by setting the "fish" over a lathe centre which should be pretty close to 60 degrees.



Some in the USA don't seem to have noticed or have studiously ignored that M&W which is/was an American company are owned now by Bowers Metrology.

Greg Q
01-03-2013, 08:27 AM
What the hell are you on about Tiffie? Moore and Wright was a Sheffield firm. By appointment to His Majesty, etc.

They were never a US firm, and in fact were likely never sold there either. Now they advertise China as a source of their product. Another example of brand leverage.

90LX_Notch
01-03-2013, 08:50 AM
Huh, I always thought it is was a British Co. And according to their own history it is:

http://www.moore-and-wright.com/group/moore-and-wright-history

Their website states that their "roots are fixed firmly in Sheffield, England" with mfg. in the UK and China. http://www.moore-and-wright.com/

oldtiffe, you even quoted this in an earlier post.

Get your facts straight before you bash US mfg. with your "studious" research methods. (Bowers (the parent co.) isn't even an American Co.)

John Garner
01-03-2013, 11:13 PM
Moore and Wrong?

uncle pete
01-03-2013, 11:23 PM
LOL, It looks like you may be 100% Wright John.

The very disturbing fact is just how many of these old and trusted company's are no long just that. It seems to me that our secondary education system and what these future CEO's and upper management are being taught is faulty, and has been for a very long time.

Pete

oldtiffie
01-03-2013, 11:38 PM
http://www.moore-and-wright.com/

http://www.bowersmetrology.com/group/overview

http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=1&gs_ri=hp&cp=22&gs_id=2e&xhr=t&q=bowers+metrology+group&pf=p&tbo=d&rlz=1R2IRFC_enAU360&sclient=psy-ab&oq=bowers+metrology+group&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.1355534169,d.dGY&fp=def9f3f538eb70d&bpcl=40096503&biw=1920&bih=818

90LX_Notch
01-04-2013, 08:30 AM
oldtiffie- Your links in post #49 appear to concurr that they are British owned. Please cite where any of the links indicate that M&W or Bower are in fact American manufacturing companies. Please defend your statement from post #44: "Some in the USA don't seem to have noticed or have studiously ignored that M&W which is/was an American company are owned now by Bowers Metrology." with direct evidence.

JCHannum
01-04-2013, 09:23 AM
Here is Bowers history from Tiffie's link. They have always been UK based as have M&W.

http://www.bowers.co.uk/group/history

oldtiffie
01-04-2013, 06:07 PM
I quite willingly accept that I got the home location of M&W and Bowers 1005 wrong and that they always were and are based in the UK (and therefore not the USA).

It was a stupid mistake (in good faith) on my part.

My apologies.

Mcgyver
01-04-2013, 06:14 PM
you punishment is no posting links for 6 months

loose nut
01-04-2013, 07:50 PM
Arrgh, a keel hauling is what we need lads.

Tiffie is an old sea dog, he would appreciate the extra trouble.

luthor
01-04-2013, 07:52 PM
I must admit Tiffie, that I wondered about your references to M&W being a US company, I thought that you may have known something that I didn't.

Dr Stan
01-04-2013, 08:04 PM
LOL, It looks like you may be 100% Wright John.

The very disturbing fact is just how many of these old and trusted company's are no long just that. It seems to me that our secondary education system and what these future CEO's and upper management are being taught is faulty, and has been for a very long time.

Pete

This does not come from secondary school (high school here in the US) but from business schools especially from the MBA programs that teach the only line that matters is the bottom line. BTW the term business ethics has been an oxymoron for decades, even worse than military intelligence.

uncle pete
01-04-2013, 08:18 PM
Stan,
Yeah you are correct, I should have used University, Business Schools etc. My only excuse is I didn't go to one I guess. And I'd also agree another 100% with your other points.

Pete

Mcgyver
01-04-2013, 08:49 PM
This does not come from secondary school (high school here in the US) but from business schools especially from the MBA programs that teach the only line that matters is the bottom line. BTW the term business ethics has been an oxymoron for decades, even worse than military intelligence.

an offensive statement made in ignorance.

as for lamenting low quality, i think most, rather all, economists would agree its demand driven not supply. There are quality tools available, if that's all people insisted on purchasing guess what would happen? While there is no excuse for a gauge like this, the cause is clear. If you have to compete with low costs goods you have to keep price down so look for ways to save money. Every china lathe and mic sold is your evidence and cause (not that you shouldn't by them, but that so many do is why M&W slips as they see a market valuing price more than quality).

If you ever start to think business, people or any other entity should cease acting in their own economic interests in favour of yours, check, because you've probably been dropped on your head. Competition, not philanthropy is what drives business behaviour to benefit the consumer.

Bill736
01-04-2013, 09:24 PM
About four years ago, I bought an " engineer's set" of measuring instruments from Grizzly. It was intended as a gift for my son, who was still in school . Upon receiving the set of instruments, and observing that the quality was so poor that the contents were useless even for a student, I called Grizzly. I got shuttled back and forth between departments. I was told that I would have to pay for return shipping plus a restocking fee. And, worst of all, I was told that , since I didn't pay much for the set, I " got what I paid for". That may have been true, but they should never have offered such junk for sale at any price. Some of the instruments were made in India, some were unidentified. I have not dealt with the " Bear" since. Grizzly may have saved a few dollars on that transaction, but they have probably lost hundreds of dollars in potential orders since that time. I dumped every one of the instruments into my scrap metal bin. ( My son received a new Mitutoyo dial caliper as my gift. )

uncle pete
01-04-2013, 09:47 PM
Probably your both right for separate and different reasons. The continuous shift of moving manufacturing off shore has a point of no return depending on what your product is. The service industry and burger flippers don't have the extra income to spend on these products. If the well paid jobs like manufacturing are gone along with everything else but those service jobs? Who's left to buy what your selling? But I was also looking at it mostly from a historical perspective. Who these company's were started and run by, their name and products that were something that could be trusted without question as value for what your spending. That B & S picture of the threading gauge was I'm sure just a fluke of very poor quality control. It's my understanding their CMM's to name just one other product are supposed to be very good. But The other point is there's company's who have moved production off shore, vastly lowed the quality, yet still price their products like there still exactly the same thing. Jacobs Drill Chucks for example. When was the last time you heard anyone recommend buying a Jacobs brand chuck because it was a very good quality product?

But your points are certainly more than valid Mike. Survival for any company does mean adapting and producing at a price people will accept.

Pete

oldtiffie
01-04-2013, 11:43 PM
I must admit Tiffie, that I wondered about your references to M&W being a US company, I thought that you may have known something that I didn't.

I should be so lucky.

You should are so lucky - not.

Thnaks for the "heads up".

luthor
01-08-2013, 03:53 AM
I managed to find the MW200 gauge that was issued to me, as part of a first year apprentice Fitter and Turner tool kit in 1973, by Trans Australia Airlines.

It is a little pitted from rust and neglect over the years but is still much better quality than the ones they supply now, even though the angles are not "accurately milled" as claimed.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e121/Luhtor/60_zps185f949f.jpg


http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e121/Luhtor/55_zpsb08407b0.jpg

darryl
01-08-2013, 05:13 AM
I don't automatically trust measuring tools. In this regard, some of my best moments are when I discover one that's actually accurate. Squares are a particular peeve- most aren't. Recently I bought two small sliding squares from a cheap store- imagine my glee at discovering that both of them are darn close. The only better one is one I made myself.

I don't care what the brand is- if I check it and it's not accurate, I don't buy it. I will buy the one that gives the closest reading. If I'm looking through hock shops, etc, and I see a Japanese tool of some kind, I quickly take a closer look at that. Much of that is pretty good, but you have to check- the early stuff was just as crappy as the Chinese stuff is now.

Next time I'm in a tool store, I'll look for one of those thread gauges. I enjoy taking the defective stuff up to the counter and showing the clerk their junk. I still carry a magnet with me at all times to 'scope out the magnetic 'copper wire'.

boslab
01-08-2013, 07:49 AM
If they have this much difficulty with a simple gauge like this I,m holding my M&W thread gauge responsible for all my messed up threading!
I knew it was someone else's fault lol
Mark

aboard_epsilon
01-08-2013, 09:18 AM
Dont trust parrallels either, i had a set that i used for a couple of years, before i found that they were different thickness's ..

they were 0.1mm out .

that's what's nice about having a surface grinder ..

put them all on it together and ground the lot .

all the best.markj