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BigBoy1
01-02-2013, 05:41 PM
My birthday is next month and my wife keeps asking what she can get me. I'd like a drill sharpening device. I've seen the Drill Doctor advertised and would like to get some opinions on that particular tool. Is is worth getting? How well does it work? Any suggestions on any better drill sharpening tools? Appreciate any assistance. Thanks.

sasquatch
01-02-2013, 05:58 PM
I been saying this for a long time- "Learn how to sharpen your'e drills by hand".

Ok, yup the little ones are hard to get right,,, But the rest, it is simple once one practices and gets the knack of it, and a nice feeling to be able to just walk over to the grinder and zippp,, there now back to drilling.

tyrone shewlaces
01-02-2013, 06:13 PM
"Learn how to sharpen your'e drills by hand".

I partly agree with you in that if you can't do it by hand, at least a halfway decent job of it, then you probably don't understand what would be good to know about drill bit cutting geometry. This subject doesn't have to be too difficult to grok and it's a very good thing to know.

Having said that, no matter how good I would ever get grinding by hand, there's very little chance of doing as good a job of it as some of the good drill point grinders I've used over the years. The result is just sweet when it's done right.

My experience with the Drill Doctor is that you can eventually figure out how to get a good point with them, but none of the ones I've used have done a good job if you just "follow the instructions". I've always had to tweak the alignment of the flutes and length a bit to make it come out right, so it's moving toward hand grinding anyway. But I should add that the versions I've used were some time ago and maybe the newer ones work better now. I don't know either way.

By far the best one I've ever used for smaller bits is Darex. They are definitely more expensive and not nearly as mobile. But setting them up is dead easy, accurate and the result is excellent. You can get one of the older ones off eBay for less (I think the model is M5 or something like that) and maybe even cheap if you're lucky.

So if you can afford it I'd recommend a Darex. You can go with a Drill Doctor and get good results, but you may have to fiddle with it a bit to figure out how to get good results unless they've improved it some. Probably just a bit of short-term frustration at worst. There may be other brands that would work OK but that's the ones I have experience with for smaller bits.

canucktoolmaker
01-02-2013, 07:13 PM
I know from experience how frustrating it can be to learn to sharpen a drill by hand. One huge advantage to hand sharpening as opposed to machine sharpening is that you can vary the angle and clearance to suit anything you may ever drill. My experience with drill sharpeners is that you are very limited in changing the point if you need to. Unfortunately, like any manual operation, the only way to get any good at it is to spend the time doing it. Though all that being said, it may seem like a difficult skill to acquire, but it really isn't. Spending a few evenings grinding some drills and then drilling some holes with them would soon give you a good idea of what the point should look like.

Here's a YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbRPPxyw1hw) video that you may find helpful.

Good luck.

Sandro Di Filippo

sasquatch
01-02-2013, 07:18 PM
That is one of the best simplfied videos i've seen.

saltmine
01-02-2013, 07:23 PM
I have owned and used a Drill Doctor for almost 20 years. In that time I've worn out six sharpening drums and have become quite adept in it's use. Mine came with a VHS tape, but I've never even looked at it. Follow the directions, and it will easily sharpen just about any drill you can stuff into the collets. (Yes, I used to sharpen my drills by hand. The experience came in handy when I had to make my own specialized drill for a project.)

KiddZimaHater
01-02-2013, 07:25 PM
If the Misses is in a spending mood, get "The CHAMP" Drill sharpener.
http://www.nolansupply.com/small_images/32168.jpg

firbikrhd1
01-02-2013, 08:03 PM
My experience with the Drill Doctor is that you can eventually figure out how to get a good point with them, but none of the ones I've used have done a good job if you just "follow the instructions". I've always had to tweak the alignment of the flutes and length a bit to make it come out right, so it's moving toward hand grinding anyway. But I should add that the versions I've used were some time ago and maybe the newer ones work better now. I don't know either way.

+1 on the above portion of tyrone's comment. I have found the same thing to be true with my Drill Doctor.

KiddZimaHater's "Champ" drill sharpener looks very similar to my Lisle Sharpener which I bought near new for $90 on CL. It does work well but requires a little fiddling until you get the hang of it.

Here are the instructions for the Lisle I have, which is now no longer available.
http://www.lislecorp.com/uploads/files/91000_Drill_Grinder_Instructions_99F8C6E45E647.pdf

Since the Champ appears to be similar to the Lisle I have perhaps the instructions for the Lisle will give you some insight as to whether the Lisle or Champ grinder will suit your needs.

MichaelP
01-02-2013, 08:21 PM
I have no problem sharpening drills manually, and it's a very helpful skill.

I never had any problems with my Drill Doctor. It's simple, quick and takes no space. If a drill is broken or severely damaged, I pre-sharpen it by hand before using Drill Doctor.

At some point I bought Black Diamond drill grinder (similar to Darex). Naturally, it's much more sophisticated and precise, but takes more time to setup, and, of course, it's a way more expensive. Besides, the grinder takes space. Frankly, I think it's an overkill for an average HSMer.

To make it short, if you're not going to spend a lot of money on Darex or Black Diamond, and a T&C grinder is not in your plans, get yourself a Drill Doctor.

randyjaco
01-02-2013, 08:33 PM
+ Whatever on the Drill Doctor. I would recommend one going up to 3/4", I believe it is the 750 model. Anything over 3/4" is pretty easy to do by hand.

Randy

Don Young
01-02-2013, 09:00 PM
I like the 750 Drill Doctor but it took a few tries to get the hang of it. The instructions are pretty good but getting the drill at the correct length and rotation in the collet took a little learning. It seems easier for the larger bits and gets kinda fiddly for the smaller ones but I suspect that is true for most sharpeners.

bewards
01-02-2013, 09:24 PM
I have the DD 750 and have sharpened nearly every bit i have with it. It takes a little to get the technique right and you have to do things consistently or you will get frustrated. I have had bits that I struggled with and set them aside and sharpened them later. I have had some really large bits that I did better by hand. I like mine.

bedwards

J Tiers
01-02-2013, 10:29 PM
I still own one, it is a relatively old one, now. But it is getting closer to being "binned", as I need the shelf space it takes up, and I don't value the DD as more than scrap. In this case, I agree with Tiffie, and don't want to settle my problem machine on someone else, so I have no plans to sell it or give it away, it's the bin for the DD when I get tired of looking at it.....

I REALLY liked it for about the first 50 or maybe 75 drills. Never had a problem with it, worked great. The sharpened points are not the very best, but they work kinda OK, a lot better than a dull drill.

I had a LOT of dull drills, and went to town on them. I got quite good at using the machine, a bunch of drills got sharpened, all was "gas and gaiters"... (other than the point splitter, which isn't very good)

Then, "something" happened, and it started being a complete POS.... Randomly it would sharpen with reverse rake on the points, or just be uneven on the two sides, despite all tightening, babying, etc. The point splitting feature would leave a small square around the point. Something was loose, but even the Drill Doctor people had no clue whatever as to what to tell me, despite a description and pictures.

Well meaning folks who don't read the entire posts have assured me that it "only take practice, and watching the video"...... assuming I just started with it and ignoring the first 75 or so good drills I did with it. Yes I flipped the wheel over per suggestions.... DD said that too.

So if the price is good enough that 50 or 75 drills will pay you back, go right ahead and buy one. I don't think I would recommend it ptherwise.

BTW... the point splitting "feature" isn't very good when new..... it depends entirely on "feel" as you shove the drill over against some tension. Not really very controllable, but if you "bump" the drill over a few times you can often (I won't quite say "usually") get it about right.

My thought on the DD is that it suffers from plastic parts..... they wear, they lose their "spring", they warp, etc, and then it won't work right. Also the alignment jaws seem to be made of old metal pallet strapping...... I think half the problem with mine is that the alignment parts have gotten screwed up.

Apparently the units like mine no longer are "supported", some time ago they supposedly scrapped the entire stock of parts for those older units. So what I have, I have, and it won't get better. The info on the scrapping and "last time buys" was posted here. I don't know what that suggests as far as future support for current units, but it isn't a good precedent..... You may get "hung out to dry" also.

Make virtually the same thing out of good substantial metal parts instead of the plastic and thin metal strips, and it would likely work for a long time.

v860rich
01-03-2013, 12:27 AM
The type DD J Tiers has is no longer available. I have the origional model also and have sharpened hundreds of drills with mine and the only thing that has failed on mine is the collet for small bits, at about 10 years of age. One phone call got another shipped at N/C and I've not had another problem since.
If mine gets to where it's not working properly I'll replace it with newer model!!!!

THANX RICH

11 Bravo
01-03-2013, 12:39 AM
The SRD sharpeners are very good, but are another option that gets into a little more money.

http://www.drill-grinder.com/Default.asp

I see them turn up on e-bay from time to time. One sold on there for something like $375 a couple of months ago. If you buy a used one, be sure it has a chuck with it, or factor in that a new chuck costs about $200. A lot of the used ones I see for sale don't have the chuck.

I have the 80M model, which is just the basic one. One of these days I am going to get a 82B which has the options to sharpen reamers, taps, and endmill faces.

Oldguy
01-03-2013, 12:44 AM
You know that you need another project - so have your wife buy the materials needed to build the 4 facet drill sharpener as shown in the January and March 2012 issues of Home Shop Machinist. Here is a link to Gadgetbuilders video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDW-IKHWSDI

and his web site:

http://www.gadgetbuilder.com/DrillSharp.html#Facet4

Glenn

Jaakko Fagerlund
01-03-2013, 03:54 AM
At work we use a Darex V391 (or something like that), it sharpens drills up to about 20 mm. Larger ones are sharpened on the bench grinder, it has an add-on on the side for drills, though it it kind of crap and makes the sharpening parallel to the cutting edge which weakens it quite much.

What comes to hand grinding, sure it is a nice skill, but this topic was about sharpening tools and not methods. And hand sharpening takes ages to get a perfect drill. Mabe in a home shop one has time to fiddle around, but not when trying to get butter on your bread.

John Stevenson
01-03-2013, 04:18 AM
I can normally sharpen drills by hand, had decent training when young and a few thick ears but must admit every so often I seem to loose the coordination to get it all together, the more I try the worse it gets.

I do have two drill grinders, a Meteor and a Brierley, first does drill up to 3mm [ 1/8" ] and the other to 1". Both good but expensive machines and really out of the scope of the home shop unless you can pick one up S/H.

Still grind by hand for general jobbing drills as it's quicker when I can do it.
When I get hung up I have one of those crappy pot metal General drill grinder attachments that come free with a box of cornflakes. Everybody tells you how useless these are and don't bother.

However one thing I have noticed is that if you do 2 or 3 drills on one of these you then somehow 'remember' all the wrist movements to freehand grind drills.

Regard them as training wheels for drill grinding.

BigBoy1
01-03-2013, 04:21 AM
Thanks for the comments and opinions. The Darex looks like a great machine but for the price, one could buy one heck of a lot of new replacement drills! I'm just a home a shop so I really have no need for the commercial grade sharpening machines. I think I'll try to find a Drill Doctor in a local store and take a very good look at it.

My attempts at hand sharpening drill bits have end up with a drill bit with about a 1/4" of length after repeated attempts to get the angles and edges correct.

The drill sharpening machine project looks interesting but with my completion record, it would probably be finished by some else after I'm gone.

Appreciate the help.

MrFluffy
01-03-2013, 04:44 AM
When I get hung up I have one of those crappy pot metal General drill grinder attachments that come free with a box of cornflakes. Everybody tells you how useless these are and don't bother.

I have one of them on one of the bench grinders, and I find it handy for when I make a complete cat's bottom of a drill sharpening on a off day, its good for grinding it back to a even lipped neutral consistant point so I can grind all the clearances and relief's freehand. I just roll it round in the jig till its a even cone. Probably not what picador had in mind but it serves a purpose.

I have some plastic black and decker thing that is driven by a drill that someone well meaning got me as a present, but I have only used it once or twice and resorted to freehand anyway after.

EVguru
01-03-2013, 05:18 AM
I have one of them on one of the bench grinders, and I find it handy for when I make a complete cat's bottom of a drill sharpening on a off day, its good for grinding it back to a even lipped neutral consistant point so I can grind all the clearances and relief's freehand. I just roll it round in the jig till its a even cone. Probably not what picador had in mind but it serves a purpose.

I have a genuine 1960's Picador sitting on the bench at work. They work well, but only if you mount the jig on a slide and use that to advance the whole jig towards the wheel.

For small drills, I try to keep them sharp by giving the edges a few strokes with a diamond lap and then treat them as consumables when they're really worn.

Sharpening drills so they cut is easy. Sharpening them so they cut on size is much harder.

R W
01-03-2013, 05:23 AM
Here's a YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QbRPPxyw1hw) video that you may find helpful.

Good luck.

Sandro Di Filippo[/QUOTE]

I 'd have to say this is the best vieo that I have seen on the subject, have sharpened 2 drills following his instructions and they have worked
well. I feel the main thing is to frequently check the angle and length using a drill gauge.

Machine
01-03-2013, 07:04 AM
Is there a quality drill sharpener that also does end mills and maybe other types of cutter bits? I could see where a nice all around sharpener would be a godsend to the home machinist as long as it was versatile enough to do all types of sharpening required. And I'm sure this is asking too much, but maybe even sharpen chainsaw chains too?

SGW
01-03-2013, 07:13 AM
Another pricey option is the "Tormek sharpening system." It has an attachment that produces 4-facet drills. There is a very clear demo video on YouTube someplace.

vpt
01-03-2013, 08:50 AM
I still own one, it is a relatively old one, now. But it is getting closer to being "binned", as I need the shelf space it takes up, and I don't value the DD as more than scrap. In this case, I agree with Tiffie, and don't want to settle my problem machine on someone else, so I have no plans to sell it or give it away, it's the bin for the DD when I get tired of looking at it.....


I'd be very interested in that old "useless" DD! I need a tungsten grinder. :)

I love my DD! Like others mention it takes some getting used to but that is the same with any tool you pick up. I have sharpened every drill I have and many of them multiple times. I bet I use it nearly daily. I used it twice yesterday. I wouldn't be without one!

Jaakko Fagerlund
01-03-2013, 08:58 AM
Is there a quality drill sharpener that also does end mills and maybe other types of cutter bits? I could see where a nice all around sharpener would be a godsend to the home machinist as long as it was versatile enough to do all types of sharpening required. And I'm sure this is asking too much, but maybe even sharpen chainsaw chains too?
Kaindl in germany offers one, costs about 4500 EUR. It can sharpen prettu much anything and up to 60 mm drills.

brian Rupnow
01-03-2013, 09:17 AM
I have the small drill doctor 350X that will sharpen up to 1/2" diameter drills, and for home shop use it is great.---Brian

Black Forest
01-03-2013, 10:20 AM
I built my own sharpener out of some parts from Kaindl, and small cross slide and compound I bought off Ebay and a bench grinder. I will post a video of it later. Cost under 500 Euros for all the parts and does a great job and is quick.

dian
01-03-2013, 12:38 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9w6mPNcKwY

how much is it?

dian
01-03-2013, 01:15 PM
what about this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uS_hsHVIis

dian
01-03-2013, 01:29 PM
onother one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amQwyaBzteU

dian
01-03-2013, 01:38 PM
last one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQ6vUVfIuXI

i know what he is doing, but he will have to take of 1 mm of his wheel afterwards. unless ist some kind of kryptonyt.

PS4steam
01-03-2013, 01:43 PM
Hi

I have had some experience with both a Darex which I have had for about 18 years and a drill doctor which I got for a present two years ago and sold it about 6 months later.

First the drill doctor was fine if you got the hang of it, but any little twitch in using it or push a little harder one way or another and the result
was random. I guess I just was not coordinated enough to use it.

The Darex is fine it just is really hard for me to turn the collet. My arm and wrist wear out if I sit down and try to do a bunch of them. The results are always just fine.

I decided recently to start looking for someting that would be easer to operate. Last spring I was reading up on Lisle, TDR, Black Diamond etc. As luck would have it I was at the Portland swap meet and there was a virtually unused TDR 82B with all the attachments for end mills, reamers, etc at a very reasonable price (less than $200).

I took it home set it up and after a little practice could turn out sharp drills in about 1/2 the time of the Darex. I can also do a bunch without getting a tired arm and wrist. The result has been nice sharp bits, every thing in the shop is now sharp.

I know these are a bit pricy, but I have seen them used on the internet in the $300-$400 range. A friend has a Lisle. It is also easy to use and if I had found one it probably would have been just as easy as the TDR.

Here is a link to the TDR 82 B site:

http://www.drill-grinder.com/storefront/Scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=20

A bit pricy but it seems all the good stuff really is, you get what you pay for. My Darex was $700 way back when I bought it and it has served me well.

Good luck

Bob

flylo
01-03-2013, 04:13 PM
I have a Drill Docctor & a Darex & thought they are made my the same company?

JohnAlex141r
01-03-2013, 04:33 PM
I'm literally finishing up a Worden Tool and Cutter Grinder.

Main machine complete, screw feed traverse complete, now to do:

1) end mill holders (for touching up ends, not sides) (might just make an ER holder)

2) 4-facet jig (purchased with worden kit)

3) radiusing kit (purchased with worden kit)

Hopefully complete this weekend.

I'm looking forward to doing HSS lathe/flycutter blanks; I have some interesting projects needing accurate lathe tools.

Also looking forward to accurately sharpening small drills - sure, purchasing new ones is not expensive, but it's a long bicycle ride to the store, and inconvenient at 3:00 am... ;-)

Another JohnS.

Toolguy
01-03-2013, 05:05 PM
Please post pics when it's done, and where to get the kit.

SGW
01-03-2013, 07:47 PM
Like PS4steam I have an SRD I bought used, the difference being that mine is well and truly flogged. It must also be a very early model, as it lacks some of the most basic refinements of current models. Nevertheless...it works. I'm sure it would work better if it wasn't so worn, but it's good enough. As PS4ateam says, once you get the hang of it you can sharpen a drill in about 30 seconds.

JohnAlex141r
01-03-2013, 07:56 PM
Please post pics when it's done, and where to get the kit.

I, um, ordered the whole thing from the UK. Taking VAT off, adding shipping, the total price was less than the UK VAT price. I probably had to pay some customs duties; can't remember.

Parts of the kit are CNC punched/stamped/welded. Others are simply raw materiel; I'll admit that I found it strange to order bits of round mild steel, but it was all here when I needed it. No scrounging, etc, so it made the build faster.

I went over totally to metric threads. There are some metric threads (M8 and M6, IIRC) but the rest was BA, and I'm not a fan of BA fasteners "over here".

The motor is 220v, 50hz. The 50hz is not a problem; nor (for me) is the 220v, as my lathes, larger mill, and other bits and pieces are 220v. It's a metric framed motor, and you can purchase them here, if you so desire.

The plans are great. Odd-ball mix of imperial and metric, but that's the way the world is going.

Kirk, the owner, is actually from the USA, from what I understand, but is living in England, so he understands this side of the pond.

http://www.hemingwaykits.co.uk - search on there for "Worden". I picked up the radius kit, hand-screw traverse, and 4-facet drill grinding jig. (It does have a hole positioned on the base for one of those General or Pickador drill grinding jigs, and while I have one (unused, at least 2nd owner) I'm going to try the 4-facet drill approach.

Heading down to the workshop, will try and take some pictures of the machine as it stands and post later.

Another JohnS.

dian
01-08-2013, 02:38 PM
i thought id add this (reincarnation of picador).

i believe alot of people know what they are doing when grinding drills, but this guy has the best documentation i have come across.

http://www.metallmodellbau.de/Bohrer-Schleifer.php

(hopefully the translators do a good Job.)

sasquatch
01-08-2013, 05:28 PM
Thanks for posting this very interesting, and very nice set up.

Mcgyver
01-08-2013, 06:08 PM
i thought id add this (reincarnation of picador).

i believe alot of people know what they are doing when grinding drills, but this guy has the best documentation i have come across.

http://www.metallmodellbau.de/Bohrer-Schleifer.php

(hopefully the translators do a good Job.)

That is a nice looking rig he built. The part I question is the collets...not saying it isn't a good design, but its an area of concern, may or may not be major. I recently bought a Christen drill grinder (Swiss, does #80- .250"). I'm, not sure there is a better one made, and the unique bit about it is the collet. The are extremely long and split from both ends. The idea is you don't get a proper grip on the narrow land unless you are gripping it for a long distance.


The Christen was a nice addition to do small twist drills, but a few years ago I designed one based on a V block for use in a tool and cutter or surface grinder. Univise is also home made. The V block was to overcome the challenge of a large drill held in a short collet. Based on the Christen design, the collet is maybe 5-6x the drill dia. The V block works extremely well; drills drill to within a couple of thou as the lips are a identical length. Even though it is around 4" long, it is still not good enough for taper shank drills. Despite the image below I usually drop in a long piece of extruded AL angle to give positive registration of the lands.

I'd want to do some experimentation to be absolutely sure before putting that much work into a collet based system.


http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b201/michael0100/universal%20swivel/pt2trvbloc.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b201/michael0100/universal%20swivel/trassembly.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b201/michael0100/universal%20swivel/pt2withlargerdrill.jpg

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b201/michael0100/universal%20swivel/pt2sharpeneddrills.jpg

h12721
01-08-2013, 08:00 PM
Mcgyver,
He switched to ER-11 collets they are split from both sides,should be long enough for the drills.
Hilmar

thaiguzzi
01-10-2013, 03:47 AM
Mcgyver,
that is one very nice v-block drill sharpening jig. Very impressive and the results look great too. I may copy some of the ideas into my own jig for my larger 5/8" and up straight shank and my MT drills. Thanx. .500" and under i get decent results with my wobbly genuine Picador jig, 'cos i've used it that often that i know it's quirks and foibles. It's even better now it's used on my recently acquired/finished Stent with a white al/ox wheel instead of off the side of the bench grinder.
Mike.

Alistair Hosie
01-10-2013, 01:50 PM
No way get yourself an industrial used good condition drill sharpener for low bucks and do the job right first time.The drill doctor is a kids toy and a damned expensive on for what it is I have one lying around and I have never used it.Anyway get a good condition used with a proper head on it for drill sharpening.And when you die give it to his lordship or sell it for a massive profit.LOL Alistair

dian
01-10-2013, 02:08 PM
"drills drill to within a couple of thou as the lips are a identical length."

are regular drilsl ground to such precision, that locating them this way ensures a precise Rotation by 180°? for what reason would they be so precisely ground?

Mcgyver
01-10-2013, 05:52 PM
thanks Mike


"
are regular drilsl ground to such precision, that locating them this way ensures a precise Rotation by 180°? for what reason would they be so precisely ground?

how far would you like them to be off? :D

the tooth rest is used for indexing the 180. when sharpening by hand, I can grind drills that cut reasonably well be the accuracy is limited by my eyesight and the 1/32nd or whatever they are markings on drill grinding guide.

So I set out to do something better.

There is no requirement for twist drills to drill to a thou or two. Once you have a stationary fixture howevet and can index the drill 180 you get the cutting edges a mirror of each other and the drill bit drills very accurately....its just how it worked out. its subject to the accuracy of the flutes which is less desirable than the Christen's method of holding by the lands, however imo today's modern automated production should produce an accurate flute and it not, well, we don't have to drill to .002" in any event.

Hilmar, I'd guess the drill diam vs collet length is still a fraction of what the good people at Christen think you need and clamping by the land be unstable if the area isn't long(ish). Its academic for me, found another solution....still I'd want to varify before embarking on long build

DATo
01-11-2013, 02:01 AM
When I was in school my instructor gave me two 3/4 dia. drills and said make the dull one look like the new one. I ground off about an inch of the 3/4" drill before I got it right, but the good news is that I've gotten it right forever after.

Take a cheap, expendable drill and get on a cheap, expendable grinding wheel and grind your butt off. Test your progress by attempting to use the drill from time to time and adjust your grind accordingly. Once you learn to grind a drill freehand you will never need to rely on gadgets in the future.

TIP #1 : When attempting to get the cutting edges balanced I hold the drill up in front of me at eye level in as vertical a position as I can and compare the lengths of the cutting edges. I then adjust by grinding the shorter of the two sides to a slightly more acute angle to the centerline thus attempting to get the lengths equal. Once you get the hang of this you'd be amazed at how accurately you can grind the edges to the same length. If you are new at this technique compare the angle you are grinding to a new drill visually - it doesn't need to be perfect.

Tip #2 : Put the drill in the machine, drive it into the material and then turn the machine off while the drill is still buried in the material. The edge with the longer chip stuck to it needs to have a little more ground off.

Tip #3 : To get an extra fine edge (particularly on larger drills) finish on a belt sander with very light pressure.

Edited to include "tips" ... for what they're worth.

Jaakko Fagerlund
01-11-2013, 04:44 AM
Once you learn to grind a drill freehand you will never need to rely on gadgets in the future.
Sure a nice skill, but once you use "the gadget" you realise that the time spent trying to get a balanced grind is now spent making money and not fiddling around the grinder.

EVguru
01-11-2013, 05:06 AM
Getting a drill to cut 'on size' within a thou or so might be considered a waste of time although I've used accurately cutting drills to make holes for tranistion fit locating dowels.

On the other hand getting each cutting edge to share the same load is important when drilling deep holes you don't want to wander.

One of the machinists at work was very dissmisive of using a drill grinding jig. He would never admit to being wrong and when he siezed a 3/8" drill he'd just sharpened in a block of Aluminium because it had drifted by at least half a diameter, he sulked for a whole week. One of the other machinists had spotted as the drill went in just how eneven the swarf coming off each lip was.

Jaakko Fagerlund
01-11-2013, 06:30 AM
And when the drill cuts equally on both edges, it also doesn't want to wobble around and thus makes rounder, more straight holes that are on size. The best to date I've seen was 17.6 mm hole produced with a hand ground 15 mm drill.

EVgurus story said the same thing: there is no room for hand grinding if you are doing work that should bring money to you.

loose nut
01-11-2013, 06:57 PM
I have a Drill Docctor & a Darex & thought they are made my the same company?

Darex originally sold the Drill Doctor but it has since been sold off.

If you can find an original Darex sharpener, M2 style not the drill doctor, it is still the best bet for a home shop.

DATo
01-12-2013, 08:09 AM
Sure a nice skill, but once you use "the gadget" you realise that the time spent trying to get a balanced grind is now spent making money and not fiddling around the grinder.


Greetings Jaakko,

I don't mean to sound like a jerk, honestly I don't, but I am going to stand behind what I said - I honestly do believe it is better, for many reasons, to learn to sharpen a drill freehand. Imagine us both with a dull, burnt, or chipped 1/2" drill in our hand: from a dead start I would bet my entire shop that I could grind that drill freehand faster than you could with a drill sharpening machine. I might not get it as perfect but it would certainly cut well within acceptable standards and I would be back to "making money" before you would. Also, what are you going to do if the diameter of the drill exceeds the capacity of your drill sharpening device, send it out to a cutter grinding shop? How is that going to "make you money"? I recently had to regrind a 1 3/4" drill with a chipped corner and it took me about 5 minutes and cut perfectly step drilling from a pre-drill of 1 1/8" on 304 stainless steel when I returned to the lathe.

First of all, a competent shop (even a home shop) is going to have more than one set of the most often used drills. My index has several of each size of the number, letter and fractional sizes used in the USA, including one ground "flat-bottomed" and another ground for brass. If I have a dull drill I just get a sharp one and regrind the dull ones all at the same time when there is nothing in the shop or on general cleanup / maintenance days. In the case of the large drill mentioned above there was only one but I am not going to sweat a 5 minute loss in profit for the odd time I would run into this situation. And last but not least, learning to sharpen a drill freehand is an acquired skill that makes any machinist, professional or amateur, a more well-rounded craftsman. A new apprentice who asks, "Where is your drill sharpening machine?" in any shop I've ever worked in would get laughed out the door.

To anyone who does not know how to sharpen a drill freehand I would only say that it is a self-learnable skill through practice. Do it. You'll thank me later.

Mcgyver
01-12-2013, 09:11 AM
To anyone who does not know how to sharpen a drill freehand I would only say that it is a self-learnable skill through practice. Do it. You'll thank me later.

Agreed, sharpening drills by hand is required knowledge; its just not that hard and is very useful. otoh one size does not fit all and better drill bits result from a more sophisticated techniques. More accurate sizes, straighter holes.....sometimes that matters, sometimes not. imo rather than advocating hand sharpening or precision sharpening the best craftsmanship approach is advocate both and pick the appropriate approach for the task at hand.

Ron of Va
01-12-2013, 09:41 AM
I am not very good at free handed grinding of drill bits. So I bought a Drill Doctor, and it works very well, but the only time I take it out of the case is if I have several drill bits to do at one time.

This is how I dealt with my poor skills.
I made a steady rest to support the drill bit and my finger to help with consistency since my drill bit seemed to wander when it touches the grinding wheel. The nail also keeps the bit from being pulled into the wheel. The guide greatly improves my free hand grinding. I still use the DD from time to time.

Since a small drill bit can disappear into dust in short order, I just turn on the grinder and turn it off after it reaches about 100 rpms, then use the wheel at coasting speed. I can control the amount of metal being removed better.

Maybe I should leave the DD on my workbench, but space is at a premium.
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/SharpeningGuide.jpg

J Tiers
01-12-2013, 10:07 AM
If you know how the drill point is shaped, and practice a little at hand sharpening, you will be essentially able to sharpen any drill with almost any thing from a grinding wheel to a piece of sandstone you pick up. Why would you assume you always have a drill sharpener, or even a grinding wheel right there when you need it? You will want to be able to rough it into usable shape with an angle grinder if necessary. if you do field work, it could be 50 miles or more to the drill sharpener.

You wouldn't use sandstone if you had an oilstone, and you wouldn't use the oilstone if you had a bench grinder. Why would you use the bench grinder if you have an actual drill grinding machine (almost anything other than a Drill Doctor or a "General Hardware" swing stand)?

As for "where is the drill grinder?"..... I see NOTHING wrong with asking..... Any shop with the slightest pretense to being reasonably competent will have a policy of using the appropriate tool if available, and that would include using a drill grinder to grind drills, as opposed to doing a "Bubba job" at the bench grinder. If the answer is laughter and "you do that at the grinder", the laughter will stop when you walk over and sharpen the drill with no further fuss. But you will know a little more about that shop, too.

Jaakko Fagerlund
01-12-2013, 10:57 AM
I don't mean to sound like a jerk, honestly I don't, but I am going to stand behind what I said - I honestly do believe it is better, for many reasons, to learn to sharpen a drill freehand. Imagine us both with a dull, burnt, or chipped 1/2" drill in our hand: from a dead start I would bet my entire shop that I could grind that drill freehand faster than you could with a drill sharpening machine. I might not get it as perfect but it would certainly cut well within acceptable standards and I would be back to "making money" before you would. Also, what are you going to do if the diameter of the drill exceeds the capacity of your drill sharpening device, send it out to a cutter grinding shop? How is that going to "make you money"? I recently had to regrind a 1 3/4" drill with a chipped corner and it took me about 5 minutes and cut perfectly step drilling from a pre-drill of 1 1/8" on 304 stainless steel when I returned to the lathe.
As I said, it is a nice skill, but only usable when there is no machine to use. What I mean is that you can sure as hell make a round part with a file, but why would you do so if you have a machine for it (lathe).

As for the situation of grinding that 1/2" drill free hand vs. drill grinder - well, I'm sure the machine made one cuts more properly, balanced, on size, straight and cooler than the hand sharpened version, which also equates to being able to take a bigger chip, meaning more speed. And proper sharpening with a machine makes it able to drill without a pilot hole, which again means more speed. Maybe in one small hole you don't notice, but in the long run it really makes a difference.

And the drill grinder should have the capacity that you need, for us it was 60 mm (2.5") as that is the biggest drill we have. However, it is more economical to use drills with changeable insert in those sizes, especially when one holder spans a range of 20 mm approximately.

TGTool
01-12-2013, 12:22 PM
I worked in a shop for a while where the manager showed me how he sharpened end mills by hand on the grinder. Sure he had a good eye, but I'd have bet him my toolbox it didn't cut reasonably on more than one tooth. The funny thing was that one of the other guys in the shop showed me later than they had a fixture for sharpening endmills on the surface grinder. He thought the manager wouldn't let them use it because he didn't understand it. In fact, I never saw the surface grinder in use in the time I worked there and I noticed it didn't have a back rail.

I expect practices are often determined by what's available (and by competency and comprehension). If the only tool you have is a hammer ...

Black Forest
01-12-2013, 03:23 PM
This is a video of the machine that I copied. I bought the prism that holds the drill and the tower it mounts to. The rest I put together myself. It works great and it only takes a half a minute to sharpen a drill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=B5s1rYeHcmk

sasquatch
01-12-2013, 06:27 PM
Great video BF, thanks for posting that.

Sun God
01-13-2013, 09:19 AM
Great video BF, thanks for posting that.
+1

Got some great ideas for a very easy 4-facet jig from it. Thanks.

dian
01-13-2013, 12:09 PM
what is cheaper. the kaindl prisma or the prisma from tormek?

i would like to have this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd1iHXwrVvU


(hopefully i dont bore you with these german vids.)

Mcgyver
01-13-2013, 01:33 PM
This is a video of the machine that I copied. I bought the prism that holds the drill and the tower it mounts to. The rest I put together myself. It works great and it only takes a half a minute to sharpen a drill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=B5s1rYeHcmk

do we get to see your build....or is up and i just missed it?

marinusdees
01-13-2013, 07:33 PM
Back in the day, Darex sold the components to make an M2 using your own grinder and mounting the components on a 1/2" steel plate. I bought the pieces including all the chucks to cover a wide range of twist drill sizes If I'm in a hurry and/or feeling sloppy, I sharpen by hand. If I want dead on accuracy and/or a split point, I use the Darex. I have a Drill Doctor. Just a poor man's version of the M2 with less size capability. I prefer the M2. Just me. Accurate and symmetrical as opposed to its antithesis. Lots of other opinions and no universal agreement. Pay your money and take your chances. Used to be, you could buy a new small drill bit for less than a buck. Not now, not here. I recycle.

garyhlucas
02-22-2015, 11:57 AM
I just picked up a Black Diamond drill grinder at the junk yard for $300, sells new for about 5K. It came with the complete set of collets from 1/16" to 3/4". The point splitter casting was broken, and the the collet holder was worn out. They still make the parts so it cost an additional $350 to get it up to snuff. This thing is amazing. It has two diamond dressers built in. On for the face, one for the side.

Now I am trying to figure out how to do large drills, I am thinking of a fixture to hold the drill and a diamond or CBN wheel on the spindle of the CNC mill. The fixture could be just a V-block maybe holding the drill bit vertical, point up, Then a program to cut both flutes in one setting and split it too.

dian
02-22-2015, 12:25 PM
where is the picture?

Ron of Va
02-22-2015, 12:27 PM
I just picked up a Black Diamond drill grinder at the junk yard for $300, sells new for about 5K. It came with the complete set of collets from 1/16" to 3/4". The point splitter casting was broken, and the the collet holder was worn out. They still make the parts so it cost an additional $350 to get it up to snuff. This thing is amazing. It has two diamond dressers built in. On for the face, one for the side.

Now I am trying to figure out how to do large drills, I am thinking of a fixture to hold the drill and a diamond or CBN wheel on the spindle of the CNC mill. The fixture could be just a V-block maybe holding the drill bit vertical, point up, Then a program to cut both flutes in one setting and split it too.

I have a Black Diamond Drill Grinder model 1B. When I got mine the collet holder tube, (which holds the draw tube and master collet) was worn and I was able to make replacement. Not exactly sure which part of yours is worn, but a lot of parts can be re-made if you have a lathe.

I also made a new wing cam to sharpen larger bits, as mine would only go up to 11/32”. It held the larger bits in the back with an acetal bushing in the front to keep it centered. I did a write up on it that will come up on a google search. I posted it here and at the Practical Machinist.

A couple of weeks ago I saw a Black Diamond “point splitter” on eBay for about $50.

I wouldn’t be in a hurry to spend an additional $350 for parts you might be able to make, repair or buy used.