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Robo
02-17-2013, 01:41 PM
I'm looking for a source for timing belts and pulleys I have perhaps an endeavor I'm going to get into. You guys always seem to know the best places to buy stuff. Thanks in advance for your help.

Bob Fisher
02-17-2013, 01:45 PM
You can't beat McMaster Carr for selection, price and delivery.bob.

Willy
02-17-2013, 01:46 PM
Have a look at Stock Drive Products offerings.

http://www.sdp-si.com/

A.K. Boomer
02-17-2013, 01:52 PM
What kind of ratio's? if it's just 1:1 or 1:2 then hit an auto salvage yard and pick them up dirt cheap...

Video Man
02-17-2013, 01:54 PM
These guys have everything in that line: http://www.wmberg.com/ and their catalog (at least the old one I have) has a wealth of specs and data in it on gears and such.

andywander
02-17-2013, 02:06 PM
You can't beat McMaster Carr for selection, price and delivery.bob.

Well I'd say selection and delivery-but price? I don't think so.

macona
02-17-2013, 02:09 PM
Stock Drive is about the best place to get them.

MaxHeadRoom
02-17-2013, 02:10 PM
Stock Drive Products. (Web site sizing)
Martin Sheave. (Web site sizing, local suppliers in some areas)
Misumi US (Great free catalogue and design source).
Max.

Robo
02-17-2013, 03:11 PM
I should add its for a high torque application. Aluminum pulleys would be preferred. I'm looking at the poly chain gates style belt.

Willy
02-17-2013, 03:57 PM
High torque is a relative term. Can you be more specific as to what the application is or what constitutes "high torque"?

Robo
02-17-2013, 04:48 PM
High torque is a relative term. Can you be more specific as to what the application is or what constitutes "high torque"?

It would be to replace the chain and gears in a snowmobile. I found a nice belt drive but just can't see how they arrive at the price of it.....it looks pretty simple. Stock belt and I am assuming stock gears/sprockets from some where. I haven't the exact numbers but the snowmobile is about 150hp.

Willy
02-17-2013, 05:24 PM
I haven't the exact numbers but the snowmobile is about 150hp

I can see where a photo copier belt isn't going to cut it!

I haven't personally used these guys but have talked to those who have used their products with good results in industrial applications. I don't have any pricing info of course as it is all dependant on application.

If nothing else the Martin Synchronous Drive Products page is a wealth of info on selection and suitability of synchronous drive components. I don't believe they will be cheap, but that too is a relative term.
I've included links to a few pages from their site below.

http://www.martinsprocket.com/LITS/PT/pages/ptb-hts.pdf

http://www.martinsprocket.com/synch.htm#

http://www.martinsprocket.com/SecK_TOC.htm

Robo
02-17-2013, 06:31 PM
I can see where a photo copier belt isn't going to cut it!

I haven't personally used these guys but have talked to those who have used their products with good results in industrial applications. I don't have any pricing info of course as it is all dependant on application.

If nothing else the Martin Synchronous Drive Products page is a wealth of info on selection and suitability of synchronous drive components. I don't believe they will be cheap, but that too is a relative term.
I've included links to a few pages from their site below.

http://www.martinsprocket.com/LITS/PT/pages/ptb-hts.pdf

http://www.martinsprocket.com/synch.htm#

http://www.martinsprocket.com/SecK_TOC.htm

I think they can build anything you would want. I was hoping to use something stock and may be able to. I need to get some measurements and give them a call.

macona
02-17-2013, 07:28 PM
I used the Gates Powergrip belt on my mill spindle. They are also used in power equipment like lawnmowers and stuff.

Robo
02-17-2013, 07:52 PM
Gates seems to be the leader in belts.

lakeside53
02-17-2013, 08:08 PM
I should add its for a high torque application. Aluminum pulleys would be preferred. I'm looking at the poly chain gates style belt.

Have you priced poly-chain...? it's like gold...

Download the Gates design software. Then, after selecting the correct pulleys/belts, get mutiple quotes from type usual local bearing/transmission houses. Gates has most items in stock, and resellers can source it in days.

McMaster sells at full retail and only has a small selection. Sure, great services, but a for this type of item you can do better locally.

Jess13
02-17-2013, 09:38 PM
If you have some Motorcycle shops close by youmight go talk to them. They may even have some used stuff you could repurpose. Many of the later motorcycles use a belt drive.

Jess

mike4
02-17-2013, 09:44 PM
Would the aluminium pully take to shock load at full torque , I had a aluminium timing pulley from an engine loose a few teeth with consequent internal damage, I made a steel one and its still working after four years on a site where there are multiple , " operators" .
Michael

wtrueman
02-17-2013, 10:45 PM
Open question: Could I use one of these on a wood band saw to replace the "plastic" belt that blew up after 55 years of use? The reason being; the factory apparently needs enough orders to run a new batch. Also , any ideas about hot melt gluing the ends together if I can use a timing belt? Thanks in advance for any and all help. Wayne.

macona
02-18-2013, 12:31 AM
Are you talking about the tires on the bandsaw wheels? If so you can get them aftermarket in a lot of common saw sizes.

Dont expect gluing a timing belt together to last more than about 30 seconds.

dmalicky
02-18-2013, 02:31 PM
It would be to replace the chain and gears in a snowmobile. I found a nice belt drive but just can't see how they arrive at the price of it.....it looks pretty simple. Stock belt and I am assuming stock gears/sprockets from some where. I haven't the exact numbers but the snowmobile is about 150hp.
That's an interesting (and challenging) belt drive application, as it's both high rpm and high HP. What is the redline on the engine? Also the belt needs to function well while very cold, fully warmed up, and wet.

Martin's HTS series is nice but doesn't appear to be designed for high RPM (page K-91 of http://www.martinsprocket.com/2001/SecKb.pdf#K40)

GT2 (8mm or 14mm pitch) is a better candidate according to this page: http://www.sdp-si.com/D265/PDF/D265T006.pdf, though those top out around 4000-6000 rpm for continuous duty. You can run them higher for short periods (heat is usually the limiting factor, so the snowmobile app actually helps for that), but I'd want to talk to a belt engineer to know for sure. They tend to get noisy above the rated rpm. Reading more in this guide:
http://www.gates.com/catalogs/file_display.cfm?file=PowerGrip_GT2_Design_Manual. pdf&thisPath=gates\catalogs&requesting=ptcatalog&location_id=524
page 55-56 show GT2 8mm pitch, 50mm or 85mm width, are in the ballpark for HP, depending on the drive sprocket. But those are pretty wide belts and may not fit? GT2 14mm pitch can easily take the HP, but less good at high rpm.

Harley's use Gates "Poly Chain" which can certainly take the HP, but the few belts I've seen in that series are $$. And reading here:
http://www.gates.com/catalogs/file_display.cfm?file=PC_Carbon_Manual17595_2011.p df&thisPath=gates\catalogs&requesting=ptcatalog&location_id=524
it looks like the standard ones top out around 4000 rpm. So Harleys probably use some special version -- maybe a cycle shop would know more.

Misumi also has a GT3 (they call it 3GT) series and a number of others that I don't know about yet -- I'd check those out but out of time for now.

On the pulley, since the shaft is steel and the system will go from very cold to hot, I'd want a sprocket of the same material so thermal expansion doesn't loosen anything. And 150 HP means a lot of torque.

MrFluffy
02-18-2013, 02:48 PM
Say a harley rear wheel at 18" has a rolling circumference of 87 inches, at 4000rpm it would be doing 329mph. So that gear ratio and belt speed is a lot lower, lets say 1/4 or so less. 1000rpm for 82mph.
Would the snowmobile final drive to have some sort of gearing reduction in it too to keep belt/chain speed down?

MaxHeadRoom
02-18-2013, 03:50 PM
Check out Goodyear eagleNRG.
http://www.goodyearep.com/ProductsDetail.aspx?id=3400
Max.

bosox
02-18-2013, 05:21 PM
What's your band saw? I got aftermarket timing belt. Aftermarket parts are as good as OEM parts.

dmalicky
02-18-2013, 07:13 PM
Say a harley rear wheel at 18" has a rolling circumference of 87 inches, at 4000rpm it would be doing 329mph. So that gear ratio and belt speed is a lot lower, lets say 1/4 or so less. 1000rpm for 82mph.
Would the snowmobile final drive to have some sort of gearing reduction in it too to keep belt/chain speed down?

Right, the rear wheel is going slower, but the belts are rated by the faster sprocket. The usual drive for a snowmobile is engine - CVT - chain/sprocket - track. I think the CVTs top out near 1:1, so the max sprocket rpm is similar to redline.

On belts, the easy way is to copy. C3 and CMX are using the Gates Poly Chain GT Carbon:
http://www.snowmobile.com/gallery/gallery.php?g2_view=largephotos.Largephotos&g2_itemId=18400
https://www.c3powersports.com/content/c3-syncrodrive-ski-doo-xm-xp-xr
http://www.crazymtn.com/sifiso/pages/cmxds.html
Polaris uses a 36mm wide belt with a special 11mm pitch: (3rd post from bottom): http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-316006.html
So, it looks like the 4000 rpm limit is pretty conservative.

Gates' standard belts are either 8mm or 14mm pitch. 14mm is better for torque, less so for RPM. p50 shows a 8x36 is good for 150+ HP. It's hard to know if Polaris went to 11mm for engineering or parts-sales reasons. Also the brake disk location is important -- if on the jackshaft, the belt sees brake loads and I'd go 14mm or a wider 8mm.

Gates sells matching pulleys, but they're $$. It looks like the belts are the standard GT2 profile, so other vendors should work or a good job for CNC.

Another good thread... http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-323783.html

David

lazlo
02-18-2013, 07:21 PM
Check out Goodyear eagleNRG.
http://www.goodyearep.com/ProductsDetail.aspx?id=3400

If you think the Gates Poly Chain belts are priced like gold, take a gander at the Eagle herringbone belts. OMG!

oxford
02-18-2013, 08:25 PM
I have bought some timing belts and pulleys off of Ebay for very good prices. There isn't always what you are looking for on there but it is work a look.

Robo
02-20-2013, 08:49 PM
Here is what I'm wanting to build https://www.c3powersports.com/category/catalog/syncrodrive

I struggle those are custom pulleys as I don't think they sell enough of them to have them built at a reasonble price but I could be wrong. The rest of it would be easy enough to build.

Robo
02-20-2013, 09:02 PM
Right, the rear wheel is going slower, but the belts are rated by the faster sprocket. The usual drive for a snowmobile is engine - CVT - chain/sprocket - track. I think the CVTs top out near 1:1, so the max sprocket rpm is similar to redline.

On belts, the easy way is to copy. C3 and CMX are using the Gates Poly Chain GT Carbon:
http://www.snowmobile.com/gallery/gallery.php?g2_view=largephotos.Largephotos&g2_itemId=18400
https://www.c3powersports.com/content/c3-syncrodrive-ski-doo-xm-xp-xr
http://www.crazymtn.com/sifiso/pages/cmxds.html
Polaris uses a 36mm wide belt with a special 11mm pitch: (3rd post from bottom): http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-316006.html
So, it looks like the 4000 rpm limit is pretty conservative.

Gates' standard belts are either 8mm or 14mm pitch. 14mm is better for torque, less so for RPM. p50 shows a 8x36 is good for 150+ HP. It's hard to know if Polaris went to 11mm for engineering or parts-sales reasons. Also the brake disk location is important -- if on the jackshaft, the belt sees brake loads and I'd go 14mm or a wider 8mm.

Gates sells matching pulleys, but they're $$. It looks like the belts are the standard GT2 profile, so other vendors should work or a good job for CNC.

Another good thread... http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-323783.html

David

Great post David I'm amazed at some of the research you guys do :)

MrFluffy
02-21-2013, 04:32 AM
Right, the rear wheel is going slower, but the belts are rated by the faster sprocket.

Stock ratio is 1.94:1, so ok, about 2000rpm at 82mph.



The usual drive for a snowmobile is engine - CVT - chain/sprocket - track. I think the CVTs top out near 1:1, so the max sprocket rpm is similar to redline.


On belts, the easy way is to copy. C3 and CMX are using the Gates Poly Chain GT Carbon:
http://www.snowmobile.com/gallery/gallery.php?g2_view=largephotos.Largephotos&g2_itemId=18400
https://www.c3powersports.com/content/c3-syncrodrive-ski-doo-xm-xp-xr
http://www.crazymtn.com/sifiso/pages/cmxds.html
Polaris uses a 36mm wide belt with a special 11mm pitch: (3rd post from bottom): http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-316006.html
So, it looks like the 4000 rpm limit is pretty conservative.

Gates' standard belts are either 8mm or 14mm pitch. 14mm is better for torque, less so for RPM. p50 shows a 8x36 is good for 150+ HP. It's hard to know if Polaris went to 11mm for engineering or parts-sales reasons. Also the brake disk location is important -- if on the jackshaft, the belt sees brake loads and I'd go 14mm or a wider 8mm.

Gates sells matching pulleys, but they're $$. It looks like the belts are the standard GT2 profile, so other vendors should work or a good job for CNC.

Another good thread... http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-323783.html

David

If I'm reading this chart right :-
http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=224015
final drive ratio reduction is between 1.36 and 2.42, dependant on gearing fitted to the snowmobile, worth considering in the calculations maybe as it potentially halves belt speed...