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View Full Version : Computer question re "7"...... is it still available despite the new "phone app "8"?



J Tiers
02-23-2013, 10:40 PM
I know "8" just appeared, but "7" seemed to be only available for about 39 seconds.

I have available to me (to buy) a pretty new Dell M4300 which has what I want for running a bunch of engineering programs. But it has XP on it, and many of the programs are going to be transitioning to the non-XP world...... As of yet I am not sure if that means "8", or "7".....

Could mean "7" compatible, since "8" seems to be (deservedly) not super-popular.

The basic question is whether relatively new machines can be upgraded,

And whether "7" is still being sold for consumer install.

As for why would I not just buy a new one... a) it will come with "8", which I don't want yet.... and the kind of machine I am looking for is *not cheap* new..... I don't want to hand over big bucks and then deal with the "phone apps" system.

oldtiffie
02-23-2013, 10:49 PM
My older computer (XP) is being up-graded to W7 (OEM) as the guy who services my machines only installs W8 by written request only - default is W7.

I don't use (and get by quite well without) "apps" either on my computers or my mobile/cell phone.

Not all newer main/mother and graphics boards will support all aspects of XP - which happened in my case so a new computer (W7) is being built from the ground up.

Zero_Divide
02-23-2013, 11:53 PM
I bought my wife a new laptop with w8 installed.
Thought "what the heck i dont care as long as it still works"
Boy was i wrong.
Everything is absolutely annoying.
I had to download and install a third-party app that reinstated old style start menu as w8 does not have it at all!

Stupid sidebar keeps popping up every time to move the mouse to the right of the screen. AND there is no way to turn it off.
Color scheme is horrible. And attempts to make it more bearable make it look to ugly to ugly to tolerate.......
Install windows 7 and dont worry.
W8 will forever remain one of their flops. Just like Vista, ME, win 2000 and win 95.

The Artful Bodger
02-23-2013, 11:59 PM
My new desktop has Windoze 8 and the best feature is that it can be, easily, made to look like Windoze 7.

Zero_Divide
02-24-2013, 01:28 AM
My new desktop has Windoze 8 and the best feature is that it can be, easily, made to look like Windoze 7.
Did you find a way to turn off sidebar.
That thing just drives me nuts!

The Artful Bodger
02-24-2013, 01:35 AM
I don't think it pops up if you are running desktop. Sorry, but you would have to Google how to do that automatically but what I did was made a shortcut to Desktop and that appears on the Metro window. Just click on that and you are pretty much back in the sanity mode.

To test, just click on START and start typing 'desktop', please let me know what happens.

John

macona
02-24-2013, 02:18 AM
Windows 8, the new vista.

Some people say it runs faster than Win 7, it might, but the interfaces is a user interface nightmare.

Ill be sticking with Win 7 for the long haul.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTYet-qf1jo

The Artful Bodger
02-24-2013, 02:21 AM
Yeabut, its not too hard to make it look quite like Windoze 7.

The magic words are "disable Windows 8" in the Google search box.

Zero_Divide
02-24-2013, 03:31 AM
Yeabut, its not too hard to make it look quite like Windoze 7.

The magic words are "disable Windows 8" in the Google search box.

Noo man you simply CAN NOT disable stupid charms bar (the one i fitst erroneously? called sidebar)
http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/w8itprogeneral/thread/4f4194f7-3c96-4719-8c7b-8596e2fa2f77/

Macona thanks for the video- gave me a good laugh!

oldtiffie
02-24-2013, 03:31 AM
Here is the OP.


I know "8" just appeared, but "7" seemed to be only available for about 39 seconds.

I have available to me (to buy) a pretty new Dell M4300 which has what I want for running a bunch of engineering programs. But it has XP on it, and many of the programs are going to be transitioning to the non-XP world...... As of yet I am not sure if that means "8", or "7".....

Could mean "7" compatible, since "8" seems to be (deservedly) not super-popular.

The basic question is whether relatively new machines can be upgraded,

And whether "7" is still being sold for consumer install.

As for why would I not just buy a new one... a) it will come with "8", which I don't want yet.... and the kind of machine I am looking for is *not cheap* new..... I don't want to hand over big bucks and then deal with the "phone apps" system.

I have an idea that Dell and a few others have Windows versions almost hard-wired in and I am not sure how it can be stripped back to "blank" so that you can instal your own fully licenced OEM copy of W7.

Zero_Divide
02-24-2013, 03:48 AM
Here is the OP.



I have an idea that Dell and a few others have Windows versions almost hard-wired in and I am not sure how it can be stripped back to "blank" so that you can instal your own fully licenced OEM copy of W7.

The problem one poor sob is gonna have when successful is DRIVERS.
If OEMs are not expecting users to install w7 they will not offer any drivers for it.
Besides w7 is not sold anymore and if its been installed before, second installation makes it illegal

The Artful Bodger
02-24-2013, 05:05 AM
Noo man you simply CAN NOT disable stupid charms bar (the one i fitst erroneously? called sidebar)

Hokay...... I cant get the damn thing to pop up right now, what is the tender spot to trigger it?

(I did one of the registry patches to kill it).

John Stevenson
02-24-2013, 07:17 AM
Macona,
Started to watch the video but was expecting a video and not a powerpoint presentation.
Would have been a lot better if he had actually used W8 to display what he meant, watched 6 minutes then had to bail out it was tiresome watching an explanation of something that you knew wasn't going to get shown.

gizmo2
02-24-2013, 11:14 AM
Just went through this over the holidays. There was supposed to be a guy in town selling gov't surplus computers (Win7 based), but I couldn't find him. Most of the new computers don't have CD drives. How you s'pose to use your old info or music library? Tried to switch to an Apple, spent BIG money waited over a month and when it arrived the machine didn't work, so waited another month for the refund. Dug out my daughter's old laptop that originally had VISTA but switched to Win7. It's pretty slow as it doesn't really have the horsepower to run the newer programs, and the CD drive doesn't work any more. Hopefully it'll keep me until Windows 8 goes tits up; can only hope their next effort is a good one.

Ohio Mike
02-24-2013, 11:28 AM
In large networks CD drives are frowned on, you boot and install from the network. Installing a CD drive is like a 3 minute job anyway.

An earlier poster noted he thought Dell was locking machines or such which isn't true. We order hundreds of Dell machines each year at work preloaded with an OS (what ever is newest) and each gets wiped clean and has a "corporate approved" software image installed. I've also done it at home because i don't want all that demo crap Dell installed.

Personally I'd look at something new, anything XP based is ancient. Even lower end stuff today is so darn fast its crazy. You can get an i5 processor based machine with 6Gb of RAM and a 750Gb hard drive for less that $600.

rollin45
02-24-2013, 11:36 AM
If I were doing this, I would just buy a new big hard drive, and the Win7 OS of choice. Take out the old, pop in the new and install a fresh new copy of whatever you want. The link takes you to Tigerdirect, which I have bought lots of stuff from without any trouble... newegg is about the same. http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=4622&cm_sp=Masthead-_-Software-_-Spot%2002

J Tiers
02-24-2013, 11:48 AM
Here is the OP.



I have an idea that Dell and a few others have Windows versions almost hard-wired in and I am not sure how it can be stripped back to "blank" so that you can instal your own fully licenced OEM copy of W7.

Well Dell doesn't have that idea, so you are kinda on your own there in limbo. How's the weather?

The machine was sold with the option of Vista or XP, so clearly it is capable of running it. And this is not a home computer.... it is a modeling workstation...used by architects and engineers. which is the type of thing I want it for. CAD and engineering simulation

DR
02-24-2013, 03:54 PM
We all know the term "too large to fail"....

Maybe a take on that "too large to succeed".

I too am in the market for an upgrade from my XP office computer. I thought I would look around for a nice powerful used machine with W7. A friend offered me an unopened legal copy of W7 so I guess all I really need to find is the computer.

A.K. Boomer
02-24-2013, 04:06 PM
Im so resistant to change when it comes to computers but I made the giant leap from XP to 7 and now like it - I heard 8 is loaded up with stuff for the new "social age" of FB and such so you can count me out...

I got to skip the whole vista fiasco and that sounds like it was a good move - maybe I can stick it out with 7 till 9 comes out...

lazlo
02-24-2013, 04:26 PM
The problem one poor sob is gonna have when successful is DRIVERS.
If OEMs are not expecting users to install w7 they will not offer any drivers for it.

Vista, Windows 7 and Windows 8 all use the same driver model: User-Mode Driver Framework,

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/gg463294.aspx

I agree -- the Windows 8 GUI is awful.

J Tiers
02-24-2013, 07:29 PM
Well I went and bought the thing... the seller was about 3 blocks away. So far it is working fine, he had some troubles with graphics, running architectural graphic-intensive stuff.

I saw the issue, and it likely won't be a factor, but who knows.... At the price I paid, WITH extra battery (gozinta the DVD/CD rom bay) and install disks, if it turns out as parts, it's OK. I can get another like it for 3x the price, with 7 installed already.

CCWKen
02-24-2013, 08:28 PM
Vista, Windows 7 and Windows 8 all use the same driver model: User-Mode Driver Framework,

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/hardware/gg463294.aspx
User Mode drivers rarely cause a problem if the programmer was smart. The real problem is with Kernel Mode drivers and not a lot will cross releases. These are the drivers that normally deal with services and hardware.

By the way; Windows 7 is still very much available. Use the Upgrade Advisor (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/downloads/upgrade-advisor)to check your XP system and see if it will run Windows 7.

BMW Rider
02-24-2013, 08:29 PM
Besides w7 is not sold anymore and if its been installed before, second installation makes it illegal

You can still buy Windows 7 but possibly not preinstalled on a new computer. You'd have to wipe the Windows 8 out and then load 7 in its place.

http://www.memoryexpress.com/Category/OperatingSystems

J Tiers
02-24-2013, 10:02 PM
By the way; Windows 7 is still very much available. Use the Upgrade Advisor (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/downloads/upgrade-advisor)to check your XP system and see if it will run Windows 7.

Thank you... that is the exact info I was looking for. The story I was getting from some computer stuff sources is that Win7 is "so old it's being dug up in rocks", and only "8" is available..... Which is true as you say for new computers, but evidently not so much for upgrades.

Apparently some folks either are "ignernt", or ignorant, or have an incentive to fib.

This unit was offered with the choice of 7 or XP, so it should be upgradeable. I need to move up at some point fairly soon.... can't be two versions back forever. (but I still have an old "luggable laptop" that runs 95..... one piece of library organizing software only runs on 95)

lazlo
02-24-2013, 10:38 PM
User Mode drivers rarely cause a problem if the programmer was smart. The real problem is with Kernel Mode drivers and not a lot will cross releases. These are the drivers that normally deal with services and hardware.

With the User-mode Driver Framework (since Vista), each device driver has a kernel-mode piece, and a user-mode piece. In order to get WHQL compliance, there's a strict set of Micorsoft guidelines to minimize the kernel mode section. If you crash the kernel, you blue-screen.

The User-mode Driver Framework was a huge learning curve for everyone (OEM's and Microsoft) for Vista, including a big performance hurdle. But since Vista, all WHQL drivers are correctly written, and they're identical from Vista->Windows 8.

GNM109
02-24-2013, 10:49 PM
I have a 6 year old Del Dimension 3100 Desktop among my various computers. It came with Windows XP Home and after a number of years the Hard Drive quit. I replaced the drive with a new 80 GB one and installed Win7. It worked well, except for videos. They would skip and the sound would drop out. This was very annoying since I like to watch machining videos on You Tube, among other things. I discovered that Win 7 won't operate correctly with my old computer and its video and audio setup. The graphics card is built in to the motherboard and there are no replacement graphics cards still available that will correct the issue.

So.....I gave up on Win 7 and went back to Win XP Home. I also installed a 2 Terrabyte HDD that I salvaged from a Western Digital USB Backup drive that had a broken USB connector. I discovered that inside of the drive was a 2 TB HDD that had a USB adapter on it. It's a 3.5" SATA style and it fit right into the Dell.

So, the only issue with upgrading an older Dell as far as I can see would be the drivers and graphics capability not being compatible with Win 7.

Also, WIN 7 was, AFAIK, the first MS system that forces you to contact Microsoft if you want to load it into a new drive on the same computer. They will do it, but it's not easy. Heck with 'em. I'll just run XP. It's fine for what I do and the graphics and audio are terrific on my old computer. Also, with 2 Terrabytes, I won't be running out of space very soon.

And to answer the original question, Win 7 is still available. The last price that I saw for an upgrade was $39.95 from Microsoft online. It comes in 32 and 64 bit versions.

rollin45
02-24-2013, 10:50 PM
Mr. Tiers,
The link I put in my earlier post is to a page of Win 7 OS flavors for sale by Tiger Direct. I have also bought from newegg, the good thing about 64 bit is the amount of ram supported.

Mcgyver
02-24-2013, 11:38 PM
Windows 8, the new vista.



had the same thought when i read the title lol.

maybe its a strategy.....when they come out win 9 it'll be sooooo awesome compared to 8 it'll get all kinds accolades....vs being a so so improvement over 7. ;);)

J Tiers
02-24-2013, 11:40 PM
Thanks.

I assume you are also on the alibre forum? Thanks for your help there also

The program is working more-or-less fine now, with a few oddities.... but the upgrade is going on a "new-to-me" Dell m4300 workstation..... The 600 doesn't have the power to run it, 2 mb memory or no.

Does going 64 affect the ability to run older software? I have heard both yes, and no. I don't want to drop through a "trapdoor" if I don't have to, but new versions of Alibre I believe will be oriented exclusively to "7" and 64 bit.

Zero_Divide
02-25-2013, 12:46 AM
had the same thought when i read the title lol.

maybe its a strategy.....when they come out win 9 it'll be sooooo awesome compared to 8 it'll get all kinds accolades....vs being a so so improvement over 7. ;);)

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/ZeroDivide-opa/th_400810_366294206717482_245675842112653_1634411_ 382595673_n_zps404fc8e0.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/ZeroDivide-opa/?action=view&current=400810_366294206717482_245675842112653_163 4411_382595673_n_zps404fc8e0.jpg)

lazlo
02-25-2013, 01:09 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTYet-qf1jo

OMG, that guy is an idiot! He spends 20 minutes ranting about the weather app popping up on the screen, and then admits at 7:22 that he was using a touchpad on a laptop and triggering the swipe gesture for application switch. :rolleyes:

It truly is a lousy interface, but baseless, ignorant rants with crude stick figure expletives instead of showing the problem he was having doesn't lend a lot of credibility.

As everyone here surely realizes, Microsoft has to re-invent the OS every 5 years to maintain a revenue stream. They're not going to float a $230 billion company by calling Windows 7 "good enough."

That's not our problem, as consumers, but you should at least understand where they're coming from...

Zero_Divide
02-25-2013, 01:24 AM
One thing i fail to understand.....
If DESKTOP windows 8 is a "Phone" OS......
WHY....
Why for good good's sake your desktop applications will not run under windows 8 installed on your damn PHONE?

And if they are different animals, why the hell we need "phone" interface on a desktop?

winchman
02-25-2013, 03:06 AM
I bought a Galaxy Player (several months before I got my new W8 computer) to play with while my old XP computer was waking up. W8 on my new computer is up and running before I can pick up, push the button, and swipe the screen on the GP.

It wakes up with the Bing desktop screen, and I've got the things I use regularly pinned to the left of the taskbar at the bottom of the screen. I haven't had any problems with the charms intruding, since I rarely go to the very corners of the desktop screen.

The laptop/touchpad/W8 I tried was a total flaming disaster, but I actually like W8 on my PC.

Peter N
02-25-2013, 04:54 AM
Jerry, you'll do fine with it. I've been using an M4300 for around 5 years, and it's a great workstation-class Laptop. Very solid, very reliable, plenty fast. I've been using mine for going through Solidworks design work with customers. I do all the main work on a desktop workstation (Dell Precision T7400) and then load the work onto the laptop to take it out to customer sites. It's been running XP Pro all this time, but W7 will be fine with it.

One thing to watch out for with the 2nd Battery bay in the DVD dock - I used to leave mine in there full-time as it was used more often than the CD drive, but after a while (perhaps 12 months) it expands as it gets older, and then swells up and actually jams in the bay. Bit of a fraught exercise tugging it out of there afterwards, so definitely best to take it out and check it frequently.
I had the Precision M60 laptop before this with the same spare battery and never noticed the problem with that, but then again it didn't get used so much.
Incidentally, you can also use the Precision M60 3.5" floppy drive in the same bay, so worth looking out for one on ebay or similar if you think you might need it.

Now Windows 7 - well this week I've also just upgraded my desktop workstation to a Dell Precision T7600 running 64-bit Windows 7. So far most old programs including Office 2003/OfficeXP run fine with it, as does a very old version of Paint Shop Pro which was a Windows 95 piece of software. Also installed Winamp & Josh Madisons 'Convert', and they run fine with it too. So far so good.
Solidworks is a different matter, but luckily with Solidworks I have the 32 & 64 bit versions, as 32-bit Solidworks won't install on a 64-bit Windows. you would have to use a 32-bit Virtual Machine to run it this way. I have yet to install my old AutoCad 2000i, but I think that should be fine too, but will let you know.

My biggest issue so far has been getting Windows 7 to look & run like Windows 98 (best interface ever IMO) as I also used the W98 interface on all my XP machines. So far this is all good too, except for the start menu, but you can even get a free bit of software called 'Classic Shell' to bring the proper Start Menu back, although I haven't done that yet.

And finally for Tiffie - Dell doesn't lock anything out, BUT...the OEM Windows software that is supplied with a new Dell can only be installed on a Dell (*any* Dell) as they lock it *in* to the Motherboard ID, but you can of course use any new original software with it, but Dell Windows can only be used on a Dell. I currently own around 6 Dells, going back to a Dimension 8200 which still works perfectly and is running my Tormach, a Dimension 8400 still running, and 4 precision-class machines, 2 laptops and 2 workstations. Nothing but good to say about them.

The Artful Bodger
02-25-2013, 05:15 AM
........but I actually like W8 on my PC.

I like W8 too and it really did not take long at all to find how to hide the "new and scary" W8 stuff!

Euph0ny
02-25-2013, 08:32 AM
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/ZeroDivide-opa/th_400810_366294206717482_245675842112653_1634411_ 382595673_n_zps404fc8e0.jpg (http://s17.photobucket.com/albums/b53/ZeroDivide-opa/?action=viewĄt=400810_366294206717482_245675842112 653_1634411_382595673_n_zps404fc8e0.jpg)

That graphic is priceless, and so true.

I switched to Linux around the time good old Win98 became the execrable WinME, and never looked back. I had previously leapfrogged Win95 by going from Win3.11 to Win98se. The only Windows-only software I actually miss these days is PaintShop Pro, as the GIMP (Linux equivalent to Photoshop) is complete overkill for my modest needs.

We have a couple of (little-used) older laptops somewhere that came with XP on them, which seems not too awful. While troubleshooting internet access on a friend's new laptop last week, I discovered that I really, really dislike the Win8 GUI. I'll be sticking to Linux.

J Tiers
02-25-2013, 09:18 AM
Thanks, Peter.

I've heard good things about 7, but it was "the" MS OS for so few microseconds that I didn't get near it before everything started coming out with "8".

The new just graduated engineer at work, who is into the various typical social media stuff.... even HE won't mess with W8, and he isn't exactly an old-fogey "reactionary".... but he's actually tried W8.

Lazlo.....

We all understand the need for MS to improve things..... it's no mystery. The issue seems to be that they have such a non-competitive lock on the "OS for new PC" market that whatever they do is the law. In this case, they seem to have been listening to the "Faith Popkorns" of the world, and have decided that *everyone* wants, and is panting for, a computer that works just like their smartphone.....optimized for second-by-second Faceblurt updates.

No problem with the option, but a lot of folks have been complaining that it's pretty hard to get rid of the "phone app" model if you do NOT want it on a particular machine. Some parts seem to be baked-in and persistent.

I suppose the "ram it down your choking throat" aspect of the MS model is the most annoying.... it's a sort of "digital waterboarding", there is a strong flavor of "you WILL run ahead when we say, and you WILL do it just WHERE we say, WHEN we say, and HOW we say".

Effectively it removes the competition, it is, as the tea party folks love to say, "picking winners and losers"..... Government may not be too good at that, but industry isn't either.... Edsel.... new Coke.... all of General Motors.... the list goes on.

The big problem here is that when the "new Coke" comes out, there isn't any Pepsi......so it's "new Coke" or you can choose not to drink anything. Apple is rapidly becoming irrelevant, and always has been more of a "Tab" than a "Pepsi" anyway, saving a few years of SJ, which time is well and truly *over*.

Peter N
02-25-2013, 10:03 AM
A quick update, working OK with the ancient AutoCad, and even better - managed to get the Outlook Express upgrade/work-alike "Windows Mail" from Vista (not Windows "Live" Mail or Windows "Live" Hotmail) working perfectly in Windows 7 as well, so a fairly happy bunny at the moment :).

Although Vista was awful (though I never used it) it did have the Outlook Express upgrade included which is gone from Windows 7, but since I managed to find a fix for that it's all good again.

Barrington
02-25-2013, 10:13 AM
A bit of googling reveals that there appear to be many people who have installed Win 7 on the Precision 4300 - some found it straighforward, others less so.

The one universal comment is that you will need to download a video driver from the Nvidia site (for the Quadro FX360M display adpator).

http://www.nvidia.com/object/notebook-win7-winvista-275.33-whql-driver.html

As to buying a copy of Windows 7, I would recommend 'Pro' with a full retail license. It costs a little more, but it's good insurance. If your new purchase goes belly up in a few months a retail license will allow you to re-use 'forever' on replacement PCs, unlike the OEM or 'system builder' license which dies with the hardware. The pro version will also permit 'XP mode' (a 'free' XP license running in a virtual machine), which lower versions do not.

In the US the part number for Win 7 Pro SP1 Retail is FQC-00129. A search should turn up many suppliers.

Cheers

.

flylo
02-25-2013, 10:26 AM
Just bought a Gateway "All in One w/touchscreen" that came with Windows 7. I haven't unpacked it but sounds like I'll like it. I sure learn a lot here. This forum has the nicest, smartest, & most diverse people of any forum I bet! Thanks!

rollin45
02-25-2013, 11:17 AM
I've been building systems for myself for ten years or so, I have been installing and using the OEM software, never have I had any trouble upgrading hardware. One time I built a new system and installed the old harddrive, this raised a flag but a five minute call to Microsoft explaining I was replacing a failed system due to power supply meltdown, resulted in a new number which enabled me to carry on. I've replaced multiple video cards , hard drives, memory, optical drives ,even motherboards... without issue. The only thing the retail version buys you is support, ... I've found all the help I've ever needed (knock on wood) by simply googling the problem. Of course , others may have had different experiences, but I wouldn't hesitate to install the OEM software in a new build or a re-build.

rollin'

BMW Rider
02-25-2013, 12:01 PM
had the same thought when i read the title lol.

maybe its a strategy.....when they come out win 9 it'll be sooooo awesome compared to 8 it'll get all kinds accolades....vs being a so so improvement over 7. ;);)

I don't know if its a strategy, but it's certainly a pattern. Seems they can only get it right every second or third release. Lots of bad OSs in their history; Win 98, Millenium, Vista, and now Win 8. I'll stick with 7 until a proven better choice comes out.

GNM109
02-25-2013, 12:24 PM
As I mentioned earlier, I installed Win 7 for a while and gave it a try. For the most part it worked well except for video and audio due to driver issues which ultimately cause me to return to Win XP on the old Dell 3100.

No one so far has commented on the email portion of Win 7. That would be Windows Live Mail with its Cloud feature for photographs. I found it to be rather difficult to use. It comes with a "ribbon" feature for the controls. It's much more difficult to use and slower than Outlook Express, which I liked since I used it for so long.

Also, Microsoft removed the progress bar feature so it's no longer possible to check progress of down or up loading of large files. That's a real annoyance to me.

During the time that I used Win 7, I got around this by abandoning Windows Live Mail in favor of Gmail, Yahoo and another mail program from my server. Now that I'm back with Win XP, I can use Outlook Express again, although I now use Gmail for most all messages.

Just curious how Windows Live Mail goes over with you folks. If I don't get a response I will conclude that you think it's wonderful. ;)

Peter N
02-25-2013, 01:38 PM
Just curious how Windows Live Mail goes over with you folks. If I don't get a response I will conclude that you think it's wonderful. ;)

Quite honestly, thought it was horrible, didn't like it at all. Even though I've had Office for many years I never really clicked with the mail setup there either, and have been using Outlook Express for some 14/15 years or so and it's been perfect for Business & Personal use.
I tried Windows Live Mail and hated it. Over the last 2 days I've tried Thunderbird, Opera, Pegasus, Incredimail (Yuk!), and Dreammail (a Chinese OE clone). Of them all I actually like Dreammail the best, but didn't quite trust it tbh, and it lacked a spell check and some other features.

Then I read that "Windows Mail", which was an Outlook Express update that was bundled in Vista but not with W7 was the perfect migration path for die-hard OE users, and despite Microsofts best efforts could still be installed & run in W7 with just a little work.
Details are here: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/5481-windows-mail.html - just follow the instructions exactly, and it's very simple to get the perfect 'OE Clone' working in W7.

I really like it, and have now imported all my address book contacts (and 13years of messages....) using the free trial of DMailer Sync http://www.dmailer.com/.

Very simple to do it all and worth a try IMO if you like OE.

GNM109
02-25-2013, 06:01 PM
Quite honestly, thought it was horrible, didn't like it at all. Even though I've had Office for many years I never really clicked with the mail setup there either, and have been using Outlook Express for some 14/15 years or so and it's been perfect for Business & Personal use.
I tried Windows Live Mail and hated it. Over the last 2 days I've tried Thunderbird, Opera, Pegasus, Incredimail (Yuk!), and Dreammail (a Chinese OE clone). Of them all I actually like Dreammail the best, but didn't quite trust it tbh, and it lacked a spell check and some other features.

Then I read that "Windows Mail", which was an Outlook Express update that was bundled in Vista but not with W7 was the perfect migration path for die-hard OE users, and despite Microsofts best efforts could still be installed & run in W7 with just a little work.
Details are here: http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/5481-windows-mail.html - just follow the instructions exactly, and it's very simple to get the perfect 'OE Clone' working in W7.

I really like it, and have now imported all my address book contacts (and 13years of messages....) using the free trial of DMailer Sync http://www.dmailer.com/.

Very simple to do it all and worth a try IMO if you like OE.

Thanks for the response. That's interesting. Your comments on WLM are exactly what I and many other on Google are saying. Most people really dislike it. Like you, I've been using OE for many years and have gotten used to it.

I'll take a look at your suggestion.

Regards.

rohart
02-25-2013, 06:26 PM
Zero - you listed Win2000 at the top of the thread as a poor OS. I didn't comment then, but now it's missing from your montage of OS front ends I fveel I've got to stick my head over the parapet.

IMO, Win2K is a brilliant OS. It followed on from NT as the first real protected mode systems. XP is really just a sweetener on W2K for the individual user. Sure, they all beef up security for massive networked customers, but that stuff often messes it up for home uses.

I have three laptops, three desktops, one recent printer and one legacy printer. Over the last year, as the two W7 laptops have arrived, the network has gradually declined into uselessness. The W2K and the XP machines can still print, no machine can file share with any others, and we're reduced to throwing flashcards around the room or emailing print jobs to each other to get stuff printed.

Linux is getting more and more tempting every week, but at the end of the day, my Win2K machine is my goto machine when all else fails.

oldtiffie
02-25-2013, 06:37 PM
.................................................. ...

.................................................. ....

And finally for Tiffie - Dell doesn't lock anything out, BUT...the OEM Windows software that is supplied with a new Dell can only be installed on a Dell (*any* Dell) as they lock it *in* to the Motherboard ID, but you can of course use any new original software with it, but Dell Windows can only be used on a Dell. I currently own around 6 Dells, going back to a Dimension 8200 which still works perfectly and is running my Tormach, a Dimension 8400 still running, and 4 precision-class machines, 2 laptops and 2 workstations. Nothing but good to say about them.

Thanks Peter as that clears the air somewhat.

All of my new machines are custom-built and all have had the several sequential OEM versions installed - never a problem. I am working on a W7 machine now while my XP machine is being scrapped and a new W7 OEM and all new components installed.

Zero_Divide
02-25-2013, 08:32 PM
Zero - you listed Win2000 at the top of the thread as a poor OS. I didn't comment then, but now it's missing from your montage of OS front ends I fveel I've got to stick my head over the parapet.

IMO, Win2K is a brilliant OS. It followed on from NT as the first real protected mode systems. XP is really just a sweetener on W2K for the individual user. Sure, they all beef up security for massive networked customers, but that stuff often messes it up for home uses.

I have three laptops, three desktops, one recent printer and one legacy printer. Over the last year, as the two W7 laptops have arrived, the network has gradually declined into uselessness. The W2K and the XP machines can still print, no machine can file share with any others, and we're reduced to throwing flashcards around the room or emailing print jobs to each other to get stuff printed.

Linux is getting more and more tempting every week, but at the end of the day, my Win2K machine is my goto machine when all else fails.

The picture does not belong to me.
I first saw it when w7 came out and liked it so much i saved it.

In my experience however w2000 just never clicked for me.
Though i have been user if every MS OS since windows 95, w2000 always caused me to pull my hair out.

I had driver problems mostly....other unexplainable glitches.
But you are probably right.
Still imo XP is more stable than 2000.

Ps: not sure why you are having problems networking w7 with older OS'.
At work we successfully network xp and w7.
Maybe your problem is w2000.
At home i have xp - w8 - android network works the same....

lazlo
02-25-2013, 08:35 PM
One thing i fail to understand.....
If DESKTOP windows 8 is a "Phone" OS......
WHY....
Why for good good's sake your desktop applications will not run under windows 8 installed on your damn PHONE?

Because smartphones and (most) tablets use ARM, and PC's use x86, so the architectures/binaries aren't compatible.
I think that was a huge mistake on Microsoft's part: all the OEM's knew Window 8 ARM versus Windows 8 x86 was going to cause immense confusion...


And if they are different animals, why the hell we need "phone" interface on a desktop?

Don't have an answer for that :)

J Tiers
02-25-2013, 09:53 PM
Excellent stuff.....

The mail thing is one I hadn't thought of...... quite.... I sorta anticipated problems, and the probable loss of everything in the OE archives..... maybe there is a way to "pull it forward"?

Or, from what Peter N says, maybe a way to continue with OE for a while?

I suppose that would be nice..... it might save me re-doing everything at some point, but for now, the mail is not on a machine slated to EVER get 7

GNM109
02-25-2013, 10:36 PM
Excellent stuff.....

The mail thing is one I hadn't thought of...... quite.... I sorta anticipated problems, and the probable loss of everything in the OE archives..... maybe there is a way to "pull it forward"?

Or, from what Peter N says, maybe a way to continue with OE for a while?

I suppose that would be nice..... it might save me re-doing everything at some point, but for now, the mail is not on a machine slated to EVER get 7

The method mentioned by Peter N. will definitely work. It's a hybrid form of O.E. that would permit you to use it on Win 7.

As mentioned earlier, many people do not like Windows Live Mail. It's much more difficult to use than O.E. For the time being, I will continue with WIN XP in this HDD and keep O.E. I have Win7 installed on another HDD but, as I mentioned earlier, my old Dimension 3100 won't permit correct operation of video and audio while running WIN 7.

WIN 7 is an excellent program, however. I'm going to get a newer Desktop that can run it and then I'll talk to Microsoft about moving the HDD to the newer computer.

It's a shame that we have to ask them but I understand that they are trying to prevent piracy.

J Tiers
02-26-2013, 12:58 AM
What's the scoop on 32 vs 64 bit?

I've not kept up on the implications of it, but I have heard from reasonable folks that there are *some issues with* older software when going to a 64 bit platform.

oldtiffie
02-26-2013, 01:20 AM
My new machine is to be W7 64 bit on the recommendation of the machine builder/installer - so I will take his word for it being better suited to my needs and for 64/32 bit newer soft-ware.

"Older software" may well be 16 bit (there can't be too buch "8 bit" left "out there" - can there?

GNM109
02-26-2013, 10:36 AM
I understand that 64 Bit permits a RAM larger than 4 GB but that there is some software that will only run on 32 bit. I don't know what software that would be since I have 32 bit.

lazlo
02-26-2013, 11:10 AM
I understand that 64 Bit permits a RAM larger than 4 GB but that there is some software that will only run on 32 bit.

That's correct, but 32- and 64-bit apps happily coexist.


I don't know what software that would be since I have 32 bit.

x86-64 has architectural compatibility modes ("Compatability Mode" and "Legacy Mode") for 32- and 16-bit address spaces.

macona
02-26-2013, 02:56 PM
About the only time I run into an issue with 64 bit is finding drivers for older peripherals. 32bit drivers will not work on a 64 bit os. Also Microsoft requires all 64 bit drivers to be digitally signed which they will be glad to do for you... For a price. So that means companies never write drivers for older stuff.

Peter N
02-27-2013, 03:26 PM
Today I managed to connect up my HP Laserjet 1100 (from 2001...) up to W7 workstation. HP didn't have a driver for it but Microsoft Updates did, so that's saved me having to buy a new printer.
I think this one has done just over 50,000 pages now, still works perfectly if only at 8ppm, and I only have to replace the toner cartridge every couple of years. I even have a spare one sitting under the desk that has only run 30,000 pages through it.
Incidentally the Acad 2000i program uses a 16-bit installer, and this worked fine loading it onto the W7 64-bit environment. I'm so impressed that I might even have to dig out some old 3.5" floppies from the 80s so I can play the Commander Keen games again :)