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Davo J
04-06-2013, 09:32 AM
Hi,
I have had 6 Dickson style holders for many years but didn't want to buy any more at $80 each over here, so I decided to make my own. I did consider buying a wedge style from the US, but I would loose money on this one as it cost me $500 8 years ago.

I made these up last year but am just getting around to posting them now because of the house move. I am still yet to decide what finish is going on them.

My mate gave me a piece of plate (column base of a large shed) a few years back and I have kept it for this purpose. It was 550 x 350 x 32mm thick and the tool holders are 31.75 deep so close enough to the thickness of the factory ones.
I had to cut it up but it wouldn't fit in the bandsaw so I put 2 cuts in it outside with the 9inch grinder.
After that it was about 4-5 hours sitting by the saw cutting it into little blocks.The bandsaw was clean before I started and the carbon blade did a good job.

This is the Dickson style tool post, it has 2 V's and a slot where it is pulled back onto the V's via a cam action in the tool post, very simple really.
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Shed%20stuff/Picture1695.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture2928_zps78fb59e9.jpg


http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture2932_zpscd293aa4.jpg



http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture2934_zps08017995.jpg

More to come

Davo J
04-06-2013, 09:33 AM
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture2949_zps3ac4b308.jpg



http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture2951_zps6794e47f.jpg


Once they where all cut up I faced the sides and the ends with the horizontal spindle and a carbide end mill.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture2957_zps5f7fe48e.jpg

Davo J
04-06-2013, 09:34 AM
The slot was then roughed out.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture2958_zps3734bfc1.jpg

One side of the V roughed out

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture2962_zps27f20400.jpg

The other side of the V roughed out.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture2965_zps7d87deac.jpg

The pile roughed out to get rid of most of the waist metal.You can see a red and blue one there, I colored these because they came off the saw a little thin so I marked them like this as they where not the same as the others. It was only something small like 0.25-0.5mm but it makes a difference in setting them up in a jig.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture2967_zpsfb9ed73b.jpg

Davo J
04-06-2013, 09:34 AM
This is the jig I used for the roughing angle for the V's.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture2969_zps9fb83fdf.jpg


Here I am roughing the slot wider with a hoging end mill, it was easier to widen the slot with the vertical spindle than the horizontal spindle.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture2975_zpsaec1a345.jpg

The finish left from the roughing end mill.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture2976_zps17b383c5.jpg

Finishing the slot

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture2980_zps35bf14ca.jpg

Davo J
04-06-2013, 09:35 AM
Cutting the slot with a key seat cutter. It was a bit blunt so I sharpened it using the lathe, it then did the whole job.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture2981_zps44870707.jpg


You can see how the swarf filled the vice, so I cut up some ice cream container to help out.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture2984_zps2be417ee.jpg

The little key cutter moved so metal

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture2994_zpsaf40aed5.jpg

Facing them all

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture2996_zpsaea3cef1.jpg

Davo J
04-06-2013, 09:35 AM
Knocking the corners off with a 45 degree end mill

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3002_zps0a9de8f2.jpg


http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3005_zps42b9db9f.jpg


http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3009_zps39e3d4dd.jpg

Finishing the V's

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3010_zpsafc21efa.jpg

Davo J
04-06-2013, 09:36 AM
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3012_zps52171dcd.jpg


http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3014_zps1b5f568b.jpg


http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3062_zpsb2fc34bd.jpg


http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3065_zpsd0eebf97.jpg

Davo J
04-06-2013, 09:36 AM
machining a flat on top of the V's

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3069_zps7c709770.jpg

Drilling all the holes with a temporary shield

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3072_zps667fbae7.jpg

This is the tap set up I used, the coolant flushed out the chips so things went quicker. I had to tap 230 M8 holes.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3082_zps728d85a6.jpg

I cut up the 25mm bar for the adjusters, drilled and taped them, then mad up this arbour to thread them on for all there operations.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3151_zpsba5b6843.jpg

Davo J
04-06-2013, 09:37 AM
Making the adjusters

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3093_zps745f2608.jpg


http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3094_zpscb3ba270.jpg


http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3097_zps29e96067.jpg

I stole the wheels off the push knurler and made a clamp knurler

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3098_zpsc2af6a0b.jpg

Davo J
04-06-2013, 09:38 AM
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3114_zps6ad8a727.jpg


http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3124_zps83cc6fe9.jpg

Knurling the adjusters

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3136_zps94afc27a.jpg


http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3139_zpsc7a97df6.jpg

Davo J
04-06-2013, 09:38 AM
My temporary coolant set up run off the mill.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3137_zps2f3caf8e.jpg


http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3140_zps96e97419.jpg


http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3142_zpsba62a12f.jpg

All knurled

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3146_zps1409a9b7.jpg

Davo J
04-06-2013, 09:39 AM
Most of the shaving that where caught after knurling.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3147_zpsa01fd4f9.jpg

I set up these tools in 2 tool holders to do all the operations in one go

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3165_zps2b4e1556.jpg

Machined the outside diameter

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3166_zps43e73a6f.jpg

Taking of the sharp corner

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3168_zps1babd15d.jpg

Davo J
04-06-2013, 09:39 AM
Taking off the bottom edge.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3170_zpsd35581bf.jpg

All done, I made 60 odd for spares as I never want to make these again,LOL

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3180_zps4b7739c9.jpg

All of them heated up and dunked in oil

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3184_zpseda85716.jpg

What a repetitious job

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3191_zps2fbc9729.jpg

Davo J
04-06-2013, 09:40 AM
Finished

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3198_zps6e1ae71c.jpg


http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Picture3199_zpsd636481e.jpg
The one stuff up when I was roughing them, oh well it will get used for something like an indicator holder.
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20style%20tool%20holders%20s mall%20pic/Picture3206Medium_zps4f824d80.jpg

I picked up 1500 odd grub screws from the UK for just over $100, a lot cheap than buying them here for $50 odd dollar a box of 100.There is more than in the picture they are just the M8 ones need for the tool holders.
I have different lengths so I will be able to custom fit the grub screws to different size tooling I put in them
holders and will be changing my factory holders over to grub screws as well. The square he bolts where just to expensive and I would rather they didn't stick up above the holder.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20quick%20change%20tool%20ho lder/Photo0073_zpse4387a96.jpg

Wow that was a lot of work.
Dave

Bob Ford
04-06-2013, 09:56 AM
Very nice set up and work! Looks like you might not have to do this again, but we never have enough tools.

Bob

vpt
04-06-2013, 09:58 AM
Nice job, does look like allot of work!

Coolant looks messy.

Davo J
04-06-2013, 10:02 AM
Thanks Bob and Andy,
The coolant was OK I alway run it with HSS tools as it makes them last a lot longer.
I can splash on the floor, so I am 3/4 of the way through a new coolant tray and will post it up when I am done. I has only taken me 6 or so year to build it as well.

Dave

Tony Ennis
04-06-2013, 10:42 AM
Thanks for posting this. I like pictures :D

Euph0ny
04-06-2013, 11:21 AM
What a fantastic writeup! Thank you.

I have a Dickson-style toolpost (http://www.lathes.co.uk/latheparts/page13.html) on my little Myford lathe. Now I feel the need to make some more toolholders for it. I'll have to find a mill to borrow, though...

Jaakko Fagerlund
04-06-2013, 12:28 PM
Congrats on the massive work done, really beatiful! I did a similar job a year ago, but instead just clamped one meter long bar to a CNC mill and let it do the V's and the clamping slot and the sides, then cut off holders from the bar, back to the CNC to finish the sawed ends and to get those holes drilled and tapped and the tool slots cut in them. After that they were sent to the heat treater for case hardening and we ground them to a beatiful finish on all sides. This was for a lot bigger lathe at work and definately cheaper than buying 200-250 EUR per piece holders.

One thing that caught my eye was those fancy knobs. You said you heated them and then dunked in oil to get that nice black color? What sort of temperature did you use?

Glug
04-06-2013, 12:36 PM
Very, very nice. Thank you for sharing that, and the excellent photos. Loce the franken-coolant on the lathe.

I did a similar project years ago for my AXA toolpost. It was very rewarding. I think I made around 16. Those holders were quite a bit simpler. I cut the bar stock into 3 holder lengths, so cut down on fixturing for the grooving and threading, sawing them up on the bandsaw. I also laid those pieces out, 3 in a row, for the other slot and dovetail. The metal was fairly clean, so I was lazy about surface finish and did not face anything. I bought a good tap for the non-blind holes and power tapped them.

I probably should have made more, with a greater variety of toolholding sizes. I definitely should have made some dovetailed blanks for future projects.

Stern
04-06-2013, 12:57 PM
Excellent pics, and it has me creeping closer to making a QCTP for my lathe. Cant afford the "store ones" and wouldn't even know which ones would fit. Always wanted one but figured I wasn't skilled enough to make one, but after making a boring bar holder for the lathe this winter I think Im getting closer and more confident to try it. Would be nice to be able to "drop in" a new tool thats already set up to the lathes center and go, as I hate this shimming and being stuck using small (1/4", 3/8") tools. I found any "insert tool" in this size sucks as the screws are just too small to hold the inserts without bending or busting. I want to get 1/2" and 3/4" tools so they are a lot beefier. Doing some digging to see how the QCTP holder section works to lock the tool holders in place, then I will try to make one.

uute
04-06-2013, 07:13 PM
Hi Stern:

See toolpost links here:
http://www.mini-lathe.com/Mini_lathe/Modifications/JWE_QCTP/JWE_QCTP.htm

Several designs including Sir John's.

krisfarm
04-07-2013, 01:46 AM
Hi Dave
Very nice work as usual Dave, I have been waiting for you to finish this large project for some time. Top job now all you have to do is find enough tooling to fill them.
regards Bob

Davo J
04-07-2013, 01:57 AM
Thanks Bob
They have been finished for a while but with the move the post got put on the back burner as it was a huge job in itself.
I left 10 out of the 46 blank for special tooling like dial indicator holder, knurling holder etc, so not hard to fill the others.

Dave
Dave

Elninio
04-07-2013, 04:56 AM
shouldn't you harden these?

Davo J
04-07-2013, 05:36 AM
For the home shop I don't think so. If I put heat to these they would warp as a lot of material has been removed and then they would need grinding. The lock handle locks in the same place as the factory ones and any more metal off would make them go past this point.

Before I made them I decided not to harden them, I see so many around that have used aluminum and they are going fine, so steel is a step up from that.

Dave

John Stevenson
04-07-2013, 06:03 AM
You could get them Tuftrided.
It's a heat treat process that's done at low temp, for heat treat that is, about 400 - 450 degrees. It puts a hard case on only a few microns deep but enough to stop dinging and is wear resistant. Being low temp means no distortion.

A plus side is it give a black finish that is very rust resistant.

Elninio
04-07-2013, 06:05 AM
For the home shop I don't think so. If I put heat to these they would warp as a lot of material has been removed and then they would need grinding. The lock handle locks in the same place as the factory ones and any more metal off would make them go past this point.

Before I made them I decided not to harden them, I see so many around that have used aluminum and they are going fine, so steel is a step up from that.

Dave

Why would they warp? It's a uniform slow heat and cool.

Elninio
04-07-2013, 06:06 AM
You could get them Tuftrided.
It's a heat treat process that's done at low temp, for heat treat that is, about 400 - 450 degrees. It puts a hard case on only a few microns deep but enough to stop dinging and is wear resistant. Being low temp means no distortion.

A plus side is it give a black finish that is very rust resistant.

Yes - a shallow surface penetration is all that's required. I think it's crucial for a part like a toolpost.

outback
04-07-2013, 07:37 AM
Nice job Davo. Cool tool post. Never seen one like it before. I also make some AXA toolholders

Ed P
04-07-2013, 07:50 AM
Now I understand why those Dickson tool holders were so expensive, lots of machining!
I still do not understand how they work. From the picture, it looks like that cam pushes the tool holders away
from the post, not against it.

Ed P

Davo J
04-07-2013, 08:11 AM
You could get them Tuftrided.
It's a heat treat process that's done at low temp, for heat treat that is, about 400 - 450 degrees. It puts a hard case on only a few microns deep but enough to stop dinging and is wear resistant. Being low temp means no distortion.

A plus side is it give a black finish that is very rust resistant.

Hi John,
I will inquire locally but I don't like my chances of it being under $500 for them just to take the job on here. Where not like you guys as this stuff gets done to mining account with big dollars involved. You walk in off the street and you would think your wearing a elephant head.

I got an ex ray on a simple part 10 years ago and that was $250.

Dave

Davo J
04-07-2013, 08:14 AM
Now I understand why those Dickson tool holders were so expensive, lots of machining!
I still do not understand how they work. From the picture, it looks like that cam pushes the tool holders away
from the post, not against it.


Ed P

I think they are easier to make, no special tooling like a dovetail cutter, just a key cutter which are pretty strong.
I will grab a picture tomorrow as it's late here. The hex head bolt you see is the cam, the plunger has a hole in it and the cam pushes or pulls, but to tighten you pull it in.

Dave

Davo J
04-07-2013, 09:55 PM
Here are some detailed shots of how the tool post works for those that are not familiar with it. I think it simpler than the wedge style and also think the tool holders are easier to make than the dovetail ones.
It would not be hard to make up a tool post in the home work shop.

Sorry about the crappy pictures they are off my phone.

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20style%20tool%20holders%20s mall%20pic/Photo0075Medium_zpsdf30976f.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20style%20tool%20holders%20s mall%20pic/Photo0076Medium_zps8670120b.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20style%20tool%20holders%20s mall%20pic/Photo0077Medium_zpsd2215e2b.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20style%20tool%20holders%20s mall%20pic/Photo0080Medium_zps06213811.jpg
Dave

Davo J
04-07-2013, 09:56 PM
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20style%20tool%20holders%20s mall%20pic/Photo0081Medium_zps1193159f.jpg

http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/Making%2046%20Dickson%20style%20tool%20holders%20s mall%20pic/Photo0082Medium_zps5e5743b5.jpg

thaiguzzi
04-08-2013, 01:19 AM
Dave,
i have the same toolpost, made by Bison, for my Boxford 4.5" lathe. I've been wanting to make some more tool holders for some time with my Boxford shaper, but cannot get any steel the right size locally. You say you've seen plenty made out of aluminium. Have they held up well? I have plenty of alloy in stock, enough to make 10-12 holders.
By the way, great job.
Mike.

Jaakko Fagerlund
04-08-2013, 04:06 AM
For small lathes the aluminum holders work fine, as long as you don't bang them around on your table etc. Had aluminum holders on a SIEG C2, worked fine and on an SC4 for a while, but later upgraded and sold the aluminum ones. Worked fine in both of them, but I would not use them in a bigger lathe or under huge stresses, as it is just not as good as one made from steel (preferably also hardened).

Davo J
04-08-2013, 04:21 AM
Hi Mike,
The only place there is strain on these types is the T slot, if your going to use aluminum I would leave that part as thicker as possible.

Do you have a square or round plunger (the thing that pulls the holder in) mine is round but I have seen plenty square and I think the square would put a lot less pressure on the holder because it has more surface area contacting.
I have been thinking of replacing mine with a square one for that reason, it would not hurt anything and the original one can sit in the cupboard.

A member on another forum has replied to me with the ones he is making as well, it looks to be the same tool post as mine.
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f13/making-quick-change-tool-post-holders-picture-heavy-20568-new/

Also there is a site where a Dave (not me) shows how he made one aluminum one and said it worked fine. I just spent 15 minutes looking for it but it seems it might not be there any more.

This guy made a heap as well, but they are steel as like mine.
http://www.denfordata.com/bb/viewtopic.php?t=422

Dave.

rohart
04-08-2013, 07:39 AM
I like the knurler. I made a similar one. Once you put the clamp outboard, you realise how much better it is with the mechanical advantage.

I don't think your toolposts need to be hardened. What ought to be hardened are the cam rods and the associated top hats. Having said that, I got my toolpost with only one pair of cam rod and top hat, so I use that on the left, at 9 o'clock, the side that gets most use. I made new cam rods and top hats for the other two sides out of ordinary MS, and two years later they're still going strong. That reminds me, I should swap the 12 oclock pair with the 3 o'clock pair that never rarely used.

Great write up too.

I'd like to know if you ever calculated how much time went into the whole project. What you would cost each holder in term of machining man hours.

Davo J
04-08-2013, 08:10 AM
Hi Richard,
Totally agree about the knurler, it made the job so much easier. What you don't see is that handle was not much good, so I drilled and threaded a piece of flat bar for a handle, this way I had more leverage and I could easy count the turns needed for each one to come out identical.

No idea of the time, I just worked for a few hours a day over about 3 weeks, but not every day so it would be hard to put a price on it.
I am at home all the time so my time is worth nothing really to me, but I don't think I would make any money if I was to make them for someone.

I agree about the hardening as the V's would never wear, but it would be nice to have a hard coating to stop cosmetic dings getting on them.
Dave

CountZero
04-08-2013, 08:23 AM
Thanks for sharing.

What impresses me most is actually your presentation, with clear focused pictures and nice explanations. As I think someone suggested earlier, it might be a good candidate for an article..

Makes me want to go out and make a couple of extra holders...

Sun God
04-08-2013, 09:35 AM
Very impressed by the finish of the surface milling on the V's. It looks like you really gave that Horizontal/Vertical mill a good workout; it's projects like these that really show the utility having the horizontal option gives you.

Overall a great project writeup! Good Job.

taydin
04-08-2013, 10:07 AM
Excellent workmanship, thanks for taking the time to document it with pictures...

One question about the coolant. When I use flood coolant with a vise, and the vise is protruding out of the table (almost always the case), the coolant always advances along the vise and then down into the table ways. Then it is a PITA to rid the ways of the coolant. Does that happen with your setup as well? If it does, how do you deal with that?

Davo J
04-08-2013, 10:30 AM
Thanks for the compliments, it makes it worth posting to get some feed back for all the work putting the post together. It was actually a member on another forum asked me to document it all so I thought I would share it around as I get a bit out of reading forums.

With the coolant mine runs along the vise and into the table ways and then down the drain back into the tank in the base. What sort of problems are you having? My vise had a little hole in each end for painting purposes at the factory I guess, so I had to block them up as they where dripping everywhere.
To clean the T slots to the end drains I made up a aluminum T slot shaped cleaner and just run this along if it gets blocked half way through a job. It's also great for cleaning up when I am finished.
I drop it in side ways and then turn it and it fits the slot neat, then just run it along the slot.
My table has 5 slots which makes it a bit better than 3.

I did get a bit on the floor and am at the moment half way through a new coolant tray for the base which is a lot bigger. I have wanted it since buying the mill back in 2006 but never got around to it.
I only use coolant with HSS and they don't run that fast so the spray does not go to far and you can usually direct the nozzle to reduce it.

For finish milling of the V's I used a nice new Dormer end mill.

Dave

taydin
04-08-2013, 12:18 PM
With the coolant mine runs along the vise and into the table ways and then down the drain back into the tank in the base. What sort of problems are you having?

When the cooland ends up on the table ways, it mixes up with the way oil that is there. I am concerned that if I leave the coolant on the ways, rust will form there, so I always clean the ways after using cooland. I do repeated reverse/forward in fast mode and wipe the ways. Finally I apply fresh way oil. I am looking into making a contraption for the table so that all coolant is caught and routed directly to the tank below.

BTW, my milling machine looks surprisingly similar to yours, so I will be glad to share my coolant catcher if I am first in making one!

Jaakko Fagerlund
04-08-2013, 12:36 PM
I am concerned that if I leave the coolant on the ways, rust will form there, so I always clean the ways after using cooland.
If your coolant is mixed in proper ratio or made stronger (water evaporates from the mix), then it will not rust. A lathe and a manual mill at work are used all the time with coolant and all the parts and junctions soak in it and nothing resembling a rust can be seen.

taydin
04-08-2013, 12:44 PM
If your coolant is mixed in proper ratio or made stronger (water evaporates from the mix), then it will not rust. A lathe and a manual mill at work are used all the time with coolant and all the parts and junctions soak in it and nothing resembling a rust can be seen.

I am using Shell Dromus and usually make the coolant denser than specified (close to 10%). So I guess I shouldn't worry about the way out/coolant mixture, too? How about when using the mill rarely, like every few months?

Rayatswan
04-08-2013, 05:02 PM
Hi Dave, I tried to send you a message but your storage is full, can you delete some mate.... Ray

Davo J
04-08-2013, 05:38 PM
Hi Dave, I tried to send you a message but your storage is full, can you delete some mate.... Ray

All done, sorry about that

Dave

Davo J
04-08-2013, 05:46 PM
When the cooland ends up on the table ways, it mixes up with the way oil that is there. I am concerned that if I leave the coolant on the ways, rust will form there, so I always clean the ways after using cooland. I do repeated reverse/forward in fast mode and wipe the ways. Finally I apply fresh way oil. I am looking into making a contraption for the table so that all coolant is caught and routed directly to the tank below.

BTW, my milling machine looks surprisingly similar to yours, so I will be glad to share my coolant catcher if I am first in making one!

After your tank you need to make up an oil skimmer, it's just a piece of perspex round disk that is powered by a low rpm motor and have a wiper each side like a windscreen wiper on a car that goes into a separate drain. This lifts the oil out of the coolant as the coolant has time to drip back but the oil sticks.

I have nearly completed my coolant tray, just waiting in the post man for my pop rivets as I ran out.

My Mill is a HM52 over here and is a horizontal/vertical mill. It used to be sold in the US under Grizzly as a 3617. I has a coolant tank built in but I am going to run a separate one because it's so hard to clean.

Dave

Davo J
04-08-2013, 05:49 PM
I am using Shell Dromus and usually make the coolant denser than specified (close to 10%). So I guess I shouldn't worry about the way out/coolant mixture, too? How about when using the mill rarely, like every few months?

I always use air to blow the coolant into the T slots off the table surface at the end of the day, the coolant in the T slots makes it way to the tank overnight. The coolant I am using leaves a oily film on the surfaces.

Dave

Davo J
04-08-2013, 11:11 PM
Congrats on the massive work done, really beatiful! I did a similar job a year ago, but instead just clamped one meter long bar to a CNC mill and let it do the V's and the clamping slot and the sides, then cut off holders from the bar, back to the CNC to finish the sawed ends and to get those holes drilled and tapped and the tool slots cut in them. After that they were sent to the heat treater for case hardening and we ground them to a beatiful finish on all sides. This was for a lot bigger lathe at work and definately cheaper than buying 200-250 EUR per piece holders.

One thing that caught my eye was those fancy knobs. You said you heated them and then dunked in oil to get that nice black color? What sort of temperature did you use?

Sorry I missed this post and just found it looking for info for another member on a forum who needs to make some parts for his and Richard posted about his fix.

With poor mans blackening if the part it not critical (warping) like the adjusters I get them just orange/red hot and dunk them in a large tin of used oil hanging by a wire, take them out and reheat them again which seems to bake on the black and re dunk them and hang them to cool.
After that just wipe them with a rag to clean it off, works great.

I usually use used motor oil but with those I was given so filthy diesel oil from a truck to try, it might be just my thinking but it seems to blacken them better.

I use either my propane burner or my cheap clip on butane burner to heat them. The butane ones clip onto the camping throw away cylinders you buy in packs of 5 from the supermarket. I picked up 3 at the markets for $10 each and they have a built in igniter, very handy to have around.

Hope that helps
Dave

Jaakko Fagerlund
04-08-2013, 11:50 PM
Dave, thanks for the information, I'm sure I'll try that :) Would make all thingamajigs more interesting looking. And as my work place has lots of used oil (way oil, lubricants, motor oil etc.) and new oil, I'm pretty sure I can test around to see what differences I can get.

Davo J
04-09-2013, 12:10 AM
No problems, I does give a rust resistant finish, but can be knocked in a spot of if you drop the part.

Dave

Paul Alciatore
04-09-2013, 12:35 AM
Great job. How did you insure that the two vees are the correct distance apart?

Davo J
04-09-2013, 01:35 AM
Hi Paul,
I used the DRO wich has 0.005mm glass scales, the V's are exactly 60mm apart on this one so I was working to a round number at least.

Once I set the head over to a true 45 degree using ground angle blocks and checked with a degree gauge to be sure, I picked up center with the first holder set in the vise with a secure stop and it was just a matter of locking all axis's other than the Y and going 30mm either side of center and they came out spot on.
One the first one I did marked the face of the V with a marker texta and then turned it around to see if it was truly cutting at 45 degrees just to be sure.

One side (on each side) of the V is cut with the side of the end mill and the mating side is cut with the bottom, so all done in one set up. The end mill worked perfectly as the V's are 90 degree V's.

With the parallels in the vise that gave the correct distance for the depth of the V's, and after each one came off the mill I would check it on the lathe to make sure the handle locked in the same position for each one as I had marked the tool post with a marker.

About halfway through the post I mentioned a couple that where colored red and blue by me. They where slightly under size by around 0.2-0.5mm (from memory) on the outside as something went on when band sawing those couple, so these where done on there own after the others. It was either take all the blocks down to match them or just leave it as was, which was a lot less work and I left those holders as the the spare blanks anyway.

I think I mentioned earlier that after hogging them out I used a nice new Dormer 20mm end mill to finish the V's with plenty of coolant. I don't have a grinder so I had to get the best surface finish I could from the mill.

I went to the extra trouble to triple check the set ups as once you start loading them in there is no putting it back one, and I didn't want 46 blocks of scrap metal.

I hope that explains it all
Dave