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View Full Version : My little sander burnt out, do these motors have fuses?



Elninio
04-24-2013, 06:54 PM
It started smoking, was wondering if it is fixable; I know the windings are covered in wax, so it may be hard or impossible to do. If the short was due to this melting in the inside of the coil, I won't be able to reach it. I'm hoping it is protected by a fuse.

http://i.imgur.com/TJU09n3.jpg

dalee100
04-24-2013, 07:02 PM
Hi,

The couple of these I have owned over the years weren't fused. But they were HF brand too. When they quit working they were done. Fortunately they are cheap enough to replace.

dalee

sasquatch
04-24-2013, 07:33 PM
Doubt if it is fused, the motor is probably toast.

No problem, just adapt another motor to it, lots of used 1/4 Hp motors around. (Have to modify the shaft size etc, but it will stil be operational then.)

Pherdie
04-24-2013, 07:46 PM
I bought an HF version of one of those. I scavenged the motor for another project, taking it apart to modify it to make it reversible. I never saw any sort of protective device during disassembly in my unit.

darryl
04-24-2013, 08:28 PM
Chinese motors. Bin fillers. Find an old washing machine motor and adapt it. Probably last forever, even with the bushings instead of ball bearings.

If it smoked, it probably was made with poor wire which was never lacquered, and was wound to produce more power from less iron, which is a way of saying a 1/5 horse motor is a 1/3 or 1/2 horse. They normally get hot in short order and will die an early death.

Elninio
04-24-2013, 10:08 PM
Chinese motors. Bin fillers. Find an old washing machine motor and adapt it. Probably last forever, even with the bushings instead of ball bearings.

If it smoked, it probably was made with poor wire which was never lacquered, and was wound to produce more power from less iron, which is a way of saying a 1/5 horse motor is a 1/3 or 1/2 horse. They normally get hot in short order and will die an early death.

Damnit, it looked like a nice motor too. Payed 40$. $40$here, 40$ there, next thing you do the Chinese have my 1000's of dollars, and i'm left with nothing but bull****!

Jaakko Fagerlund
04-24-2013, 11:47 PM
How long it had been running? Because what I've noticed is that the cheapeast stuff has motors with S2 xx rating, where xx is the time in minutes it is allowed to be on. A little better ones have S1 motors for continuous use.

J Tiers
04-25-2013, 12:46 AM
I have the Delta version of that unit...... with sanding disc also.

Motor supplies the lower shaft and bearing........ you need same size, special motor, sort of.. Try Bizzie bee but you won't like the price, I bet. You can probably buy another cheaper..... which is stupid but true.

John Stevenson
04-25-2013, 04:23 AM
Ours have the fuse in the plug. Law here.

Circlip
04-25-2013, 06:17 AM
One of the tricks we didn't send on the Mayflower - fused plugs. However until the fifties we relied on the fuse in the fusebox to blow before the great MK revolution.

Regards Ian.

MrSleepy
04-25-2013, 06:50 AM
Ours have the fuse in the plug. Law here.



BS1363 plugs .... BS1362 Fuses as I'm sure you know are only there to protect the Cable , not the device.

Even if you select as fuse to suit the load , they are a very slow blow rated curve....

For a well designed device, an F type or T type is often used internally as both are significantly faster.

If you have a 600w drill (etc) and you select a 3A fuse , you will still be able to burn out that drill without the fuse going open circuit.


Rob

MrSleepy
04-25-2013, 07:14 AM
I'm hoping it is protected by a fuse.


I have an identical Clarke CS25c... a 190w model .. and there are no fuses

Rob

J Tiers
04-25-2013, 07:59 AM
Ours have the fuse in the plug. Law here.

We decided the fuse would be as well in the unit as in the plug.... so that's where it (or the equivalent) is. To pass UL standards, it must not create a hazard by catching fire, overheating, creating a shock hazard, etc, under any possible failure conditions.

UL used to be even tougher, but more recently have had to adopt standards "harmonized" with the generally considerably weaker european standards.

For CE or UL, it is possible to simply *buy* reports indicating a pass, in china, whether or not you DO pass. So neither UL nor CE have much force in reality.

Jaakko Fagerlund
04-25-2013, 09:08 AM
J Tiers, to label something with CE doesn't mean that it has passed anything, as it is not a guarantee of testing. It is just to let know that the manufacturer assures that it fulfills all requirements for said device.

Have stamped those letters to many devices, just needs some paper work done and kept safe in case someone asks why I designed something the way I did or how something was calculated.

Hopefuldave
04-25-2013, 09:46 AM
The CE label on anything Chinese actually means "China Export", it's meant to look like the European CE mark, but isn't...
As has been said, cheaper to replace the.sander than bother fixing it.

Dave H. (the other one)

Elninio
04-25-2013, 11:53 PM
These filthy chinese animals -I saw a clip on the internet from a security camera where a man covers for his wife who takes a dump in a glass elevator - I bet that's the attitude that goes into producing these motors. When they're missing a wrench or a tool or a part, or something, the nearest piece of crap takes its place. It took me 2 hours to disassemble it because three of the four screws holding the bearing cap were rounded. The motor was all melted inside and full of dust.So now what? Now i've got 40$ worth of problems in my wallet for the day that comes when a motor this size comes my way. It's a 1/4hp motor, so anything larger wouldn't even fit! I can't even find any motors within driving distance on kijiji, what am I supposed to do?

PonderCreekStudio
04-26-2013, 12:09 AM
Elninio, I'd blame the importers and the folks who buy the stuff more than I'd blame the Chinese who build the machines for 40 cents an hour (if they're lucky). I've actually had fairly good luck with recent Chinese purchases (HF excepted). Ten years ago, not so much.

As for the elevator, you should try a few service elevators in Chicago or NYC -- people leave all sorts of surprises. And in summer here in Missouri, it's not terribly uncommon to see out-of-state tourists pulled over along the highway, with someone squatting in full view. Same when I lived in Alaska and New York and Idaho. Now and then, it's even worthwhile slowing down for a better view. I don't recall ever having seen that in Israel. Cultures vary.

Willy
04-26-2013, 01:20 AM
what am I supposed to do?

Spend another $35-$40!
It' pre-ordained.

darryl
04-26-2013, 01:51 AM
Well, you need to have the same sized shaft in the same place as the motor puts it in order to have the drive roller for the belt in the same place. You need the bearings to be in the same place, basically. You don't need the field winding or any of that material there, since it's burnt out and useless. Cut it all away- all you need is a way to hold the outboard bearing in the same position as it is now. Then you put a flat belt around the rotor and run it off to another motor. It would be like the old days- the machine is mounted to a piece of plywood, and so is the motor. Get the spacing and the alignment right, hook up the wiring and you're back in business. The existing rotor is now just a pulley.

sasquatch
04-26-2013, 08:39 AM
How about pressing the armature off the motor shaft, fit a drive pulley to it, cut a slot in the back of the motor housing for the belt to pass through, and drive it with another 1/4hp motor. Done that a number of years ago, just for an experiment when dollars were scarce, it worked fine.

atty
04-26-2013, 10:05 AM
The whole experience is a PIA, but now you have the opportunity to put in a decent motor that will handle the run times. The Chinese are masters at making motors overheat. Had to do the same thing to my 4 X 6 bandsaw (before the motor smoked). While I was cutting large stock, I had to stand there with an air hose to keep the temp down.

Now you have the chance to do it right.

J Tiers
04-27-2013, 01:38 PM
J Tiers, to label something with CE doesn't mean that it has passed anything, as it is not a guarantee of testing. It is just to let know that the manufacturer assures that it fulfills all requirements for said device.

Have stamped those letters to many devices, just needs some paper work done and kept safe in case someone asks why I designed something the way I did or how something was calculated.

Oh, fear not, I KNOW that......we even shipped to Finland I have designed and been involved with testing to CE/EN standards, we used a company which was associated with SEMKO. TUKS could not make their accusations 'stick" with us.... although they "tried it on" a couple times.

And I have seen stuff with the UL and CE basically consisting of the printed letters on the product. We would not do that, but others did, including some stuff we bought-in, which I know FOR A FACT could not pass UL, and probably not even the much less rigorous CE/EN.

Elninio
05-02-2013, 09:04 AM
Frankensteined it to a bench grinder, everything works now after having bored the main pulley.