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aostling
04-29-2013, 08:02 PM
A double-paned window measuring 4'x3' has sprung a leak, allowing whatever dry gas which was in there to escape. Now it fogs up, even in this dry climate. I keep the living room at about 80F, the outside ambient is usually over 100F. It also fogged up three months ago when Phoenix had morning temperatures as low as 50F. A 20 temperature differential in either direction seems enough to cause condensation inside the panes.

One online source suggests drilling a 1/8" hole in each of two diagonally opposite corners. Is the solution to my problem really as easy as that? Replacement could be expensive, so I'd like to try a cheap fix if you recommend it.

flylo
04-29-2013, 08:09 PM
If the glass comes out & it does it's not expensive & may be under warrenty. Worth checking out.

brian Rupnow
04-29-2013, 08:29 PM
I remember seeing an add for something to cure this situation "in situ" . I did a little googling and came up with the following link. It might be what you are looking for.----Brian
http://raysands.wordpress.com/2008/09/10/get-the-fog-out-of-thermopane-windows-at-home/

aostling
04-29-2013, 08:36 PM
If the glass comes out & it does it's not expensive & may be under warrenty.

It's the rigid pane, not the sliding pane next to it. The condo HOA had a lawsuit for this problem, and many windows were replaced two years ago, before my problem developed.

BigMike782
04-29-2013, 08:45 PM
Have a glass company look at it.It should be replaceable but I wuld not count on repairable.

darryl
04-29-2013, 09:02 PM
Two things- moisture got in there somehow, so that needs to be prevented. Secondly, the moisture that's in there has to be removed somehow. If you don't solve the first thing, the second thing will keep biting you.

flylo
04-29-2013, 09:08 PM
It's a seal failure just fix it. Call the glass shops as Mike said & get prices, You can buy the glass or have them install it.

Evan
04-29-2013, 09:16 PM
One online source suggests drilling a 1/8" hole in each of two diagonally opposite corners. Is the solution to my problem really as easy as that?

Unfortunately, no. I have tried it and our climate is as dry as yours. The only solution is to dry the inside, install some fresh dessicant and seal the window. The dessicant is in the separators around the perimeter. You can drill a hole in it top and bottom and vacuum it out.

aostling
04-29-2013, 09:21 PM
Unfortunately, no. I have tried it and our climate is as dry as yours. The only solution is to dry the inside, install some fresh dessicant and seal the window.

Okay. I was hoping to save the absentee landlord some money, but I'll tell him of your experience.

Optics Curmudgeon
04-29-2013, 10:28 PM
It's the rigid pane, not the sliding pane next to it. The condo HOA had a lawsuit for this problem, and many windows were replaced two years ago, before my problem developed.

You may still be eligible for replacement, these settlements usually set up an escrow account to pay for future problems, up to a sunset date.

Ian B
04-30-2013, 04:40 AM
Brian,

Thanks for that link. I'm presently having a house built, and there are * lots* of thermopane units going in - some are sure to leak. Any within guarantee period will be replaced by the vendor (if they're still in business, seeing how things are going in Holland), but this is of interest for after the guarantee period.

Here's a Youtube movie of the process: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzTIzfrn1OM

And another, using an 'anti fogging' chemical: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du-Fu2V4oVo

They even sell kits for the DIY market: http://www.getthemistout.com/

One thing I wonder, especially with the first movie; doesn't the dessicant in the seal get completely saturated with the cleaning fluid, and then keep on evaporating?

Also on the subject of double glazed units - the gas that the manufacturers inject. HR+ windows are argon filled, HR++ are krypton filled. The only logic that I can find for this is that, in window units having gaps of more than about 18mm, convection between the panes becomes a problem, and the denser inert gases reduce this circulation. I've always found this to be a bit of a stretch of the imagination. Obviously, whacking holes through the glass vents any such exotic gas. The manufacturers of the repair kits claim that the thermal performance is hardly affected once air is in there.

Anyone know more about this?

Ian

Ian B
04-30-2013, 05:01 AM
(double post, deleted)

Toolhawk
04-30-2013, 12:23 PM
Allen, Had a problem just like that in a house that we lived in years ago that had a double glass that fogged up and stayed that way. My father and I removed the inside glass and cleaned both the best we could, then sealed the rim. But the window fogged up bad before we could put it together again so we taped a tarp over and around the outside of the window. Then we put a small electric heater inside the tent to heat the window that dried the moisture from the inside glass. We reassembled it and never had a problem again. We never replaced any gas, just used the warm air from heating the outside of the glass.
George

aostling
04-30-2013, 12:38 PM
George,

If I ever doubted the benefits of being a renter, your experience is a reminder.

John Stevenson
04-30-2013, 01:41 PM
Chuck a brick thru it..


Claim the insurance.....................

bborr01
04-30-2013, 03:51 PM
Chuck a brick thru it..


Claim the insurance.....................

I sure wish this site had a "like" function sometimes.

My cottage has a fogged up pane in the stationary side of a 6' sliding glass door.. Called a couple of glass companies and they quoted around 7-8 hundred dollars to come out and replace the bad pane. My plan is to replace the entire door at about the same price or close to it.

Brian

Duffy
04-30-2013, 07:05 PM
You gotta throw the brick from the OUTSIDE!:cool:

lakeside53
04-30-2013, 09:05 PM
You gotta throw the brick from the OUTSIDE!:cool:

Lawnmowers do a great job! Don't ask how I know.


I have many windows that are 6x6 feet... they all leaked and cost a fortune to replace, so I remodeled part of the house with windows that have a lifetime guarantee against leaking. Probably wasted my money -none have leaked in 14 years :)

I have three more that fog in the early summer - learned to live with it..

flylo
04-30-2013, 09:06 PM
Not if you tell them your wife threw it at you & you ducked:rolleyes:

You gotta throw the brick from the OUTSIDE!:cool:

darryl
04-30-2013, 09:37 PM
Maybe I'm just dreaming, or behind the times- I thought there was a process where the two panes of glass were bonded together around the periphery with a gap between- this is then fitted into the window frame as a single piece. Don't recall where I saw that, but it seems like a good idea. The frame would have to be able to take the thicker panel.

Boostinjdm
04-30-2013, 09:58 PM
Maybe I'm just dreaming, or behind the times- I thought there was a process where the two panes of glass were bonded together around the periphery with a gap between- this is then fitted into the window frame as a single piece. Don't recall where I saw that, but it seems like a good idea. The frame would have to be able to take the thicker panel.

My windows are like you say and I've had one picture window replaced 3 times. It can't be too terribly expensive cuz the guy that did it had to drive about an hour and a half to get here each time and the window has a lifetime seal warranty. It took him about 45 minutes to replace a 4'x6' window. He cut the silicone to remove the glass from the frame and then siliconed in a new unit. No messing with the trim at all.

darryl
04-30-2013, 11:16 PM
So something goes wrong when they're being made- I'm wondering what the failure mechanism is.

aostling
05-01-2013, 12:18 AM
So something goes wrong when they're being made- I'm wondering what the failure mechanism is.

I will ask the window guy when he comes to fix this:

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u183/aostling/foggedwindow_zpsbf0fa54d.jpg (http://s168.photobucket.com/user/aostling/media/foggedwindow_zpsbf0fa54d.jpg.html)

boslab
05-01-2013, 12:31 AM
It's sloppy prep of the glass during manufacture, wiping with a rag that's polish contaminated is the usual culprit, it is most common with 'swiggle strip' sealed units, you can dry with heat and a bottle of argon, welding gas is fine but I use lab grade, drill through the spacer, not at the very bottom, blow argon through and heat the fog with a hot air gun, as Evan points out the desiccant can be replaced externally
Seal the exhaust hole, I found nylon screws work, pressurise the unit slightly and plug the inlet hole, schreader valves work if you have room between frame and sealed unit, make sure the unit is packed off the bottom of the frame and drain holes present, another quick fix is tinted window film, just hides the problem though!

Circlip
05-01-2013, 03:33 AM
As an addition to the above, if you clean the edges of the glass and wrap the unit edge with the Aluminium (Aluminum) self adhesive duct tape to "Reseal" it.

The unit manufacturers tell us it's too expensive to use "Old" glass that's been reclaimed by separated from the spacer. Sealant they use is either hot melt or two part silicone.

Regards Ian.

Alistair Hosie
05-01-2013, 08:51 AM
I had this problem in a velux window I just got the glaziers to install a new unit around eitghy p[ounds for a SMALLISH ONE AND oNE HUNDRED AND SIXTY POUNDS FOR THE BIGGER ONE EWEN BROKE ON ME (MY SON LOVE HIM )

outback
05-03-2013, 06:50 AM
I had three different thermo pain windows. One was fogged over for years, the other two began leaking and fogging over in the same year.

I found the window pains were easy to remove. I took one window to a glass shop where they ordered new glass for all three windows. The glass shop re-installed the glass to the frame. Then I took the new glass and frame home and installed it. Removed the other 2 fogged windows and boarded up the window openings and took those to the glass shop.

After the glass was replaced in all three windows I cleaned and repainted the trim. The place looked great.

The glass shop charged me around $140 per window for glass and frame installation and I did the rest. Friends told be I saved a ton of money doing it the way I did. Didn't take long either.
Jim

R. Dan
05-03-2013, 07:58 AM
My mother had this problem in an old door window pane. The double window panes lost their seal and the gas just got out over time. I removed the faulty double pane and went to a glass shop and ordered a replacement, as the door was older and the company was out of business. They had it made up by a custom vendor and I installed the new double pane back in the old door myself. It was around a 100 bucks for the new glass iirc, but it was a fairly simple operation. This was around ten years ago.

GEP
05-03-2013, 08:05 AM
There is no fix when a thermo pane window fogs between the glass panes. What ever you try will not work. In a short time a film will develop on the inside and you will have a permanent like foged up window. Look in the corners of the sash (glass) you will see like a stamp. I will give you the date the glass was made, you may also find the manufactures name on the stamp. Call them and ask if the glass is under warranty. Most major window companys have a live time warranty. If your lucky you get a free replacement and if your real lucky the labor will be free as well.

flylo
05-03-2013, 10:04 AM
If the window has an alum spacer, not the black warm edge, the code number will likely be stamped on the spacer. If Andersen it will be a triangle on one corner of the glass. Just to be correct "thermopane" was the old 3/8" or so all glass (no spacer bar) Andersen glass where the glass it seft wrapped around the edge & is a trademark name of Andersen. Insulated glass is the correct term. Most companies have at least a 20 yr to lifetime glass warrenty for seal failures.

flylo
05-03-2013, 10:13 AM
So something goes wrong when they're being made- I'm wondering what the failure mechanism is.

Could also be the window was dropped, the house settled, the glass bound somehow, bad installation, hauled flat instead of on edge, really a number of things like buying eggs & ones cracked. In cold cliates we get circles of frost in the center of glass on cold days where the interior between the glass contracts & the 2 panes touch leaving a frost circle. Usually found in cheap windows.