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View Full Version : Firsat 3D printed gun fired, would you pull the trigger?



Stuart Br
05-06-2013, 04:26 AM
While strictly this should be in the Gunsmithing forum, it is an interesting subject, that I believe has wider appeal.
The only metal part is the firing pin, everything else is 3D printed.
Apart from the obvious political and ethical ramifications, there are some interesting technical challenges here.
You wouldn't get me anywhere near the thing, would I trust it not to blow up my face, no chance

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22421185

flylo
05-06-2013, 05:46 AM
I'd fire it. There's a lot of material there. Look at the old zip guns made from radio antanas.

Zero_Divide
05-06-2013, 06:14 AM
Its a 22 cal.
Forces generated are smalll enough for a gun made of papiere-mache to contain.

Basically casing will expand rendering the barrel useless- thast why they have 3 spare barrels there.

I honestly believe they spent too much time working on it. Could have been done and fired in less than a week, i mean its rapid prototyping aint it?

Black_Moons
05-06-2013, 07:07 AM
Depending on the plastic too, the failure mode might not be shatter, but just streches out and lets the gas pass by the bullet, eventualy rendering accuracy and speed to be nonusable before anything problematic happens.

One thing I would worry about is the first fool who makes a fully automatic one and manages to melt the barrel closed with repeated firings.

Peter.
05-06-2013, 07:08 AM
Media blowing it all out of proportion as usual. Any goon with quite basic tools could make something that fired a bullet at least as well as that thing does and probably with less risk - if they had the inclination. The printer doesn't open up any new avenues except bringing it to the attention of people who hadn't thought about it before.

ptjw7uk
05-06-2013, 07:09 AM
So now we have reality matching TV shows.
Been used as a plot line, although I forget which show it was.

peter

Doozer
05-06-2013, 07:14 AM
I do NOT believe these 3D printers will revolutionize anything. And to spend the time to generate hoo-haa about printing? a plastic gun is just a cry for attention. True, may of us here that use our brain could make a zip gun out of a fuel line and a swiss army knife. No big deal. But you are right, the media eats up stuff like this. Ridiculous. --Doozer

SGW
05-06-2013, 07:15 AM
The bullet shown is not a .22 since it's jacketed. Hard to say for sure what it is, maybe .32 ?

Black_Moons
05-06-2013, 08:50 AM
The bullet shown is not a .22 since it's jacketed. Hard to say for sure what it is, maybe .32 ?
Iv seen jacketed 22's. I have no idea why one would bother, but they exist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:22-45.jpg

JCHannum
05-06-2013, 09:09 AM
The 22's in that link are not jacketed. The 22 magnum fires a jacketed bullet and there are any number of jacketed 22 centerfire cartridges, but the standard 22 short, long and long rifle are not available jacketed in normal configurations.

As to the gun, the cartridge might be a 32 auto or a 9mm, it is difficult to tell the scale of things. I have seen a couple of other articles on the gun, but no details as to caliber. The maker has stressed that it is a one time use per barrel. The one thing I do not know is if the "barrel" is rifled and if so, how plastic rifling works. Per ATF definition, without rifling, it is an AOW, any other weapon, and it is a felony to own or manufacture. I would suspect this will shut the maker down in pretty short order.

For anyone with a bit of knowledge of firearms, it is not particularly earth shattering. Anybody with a bare modicum of hand tools and a bit of mechanical know how can build a better firearm in an afternoon with a much smaller investment.

Alistair Hosie
05-06-2013, 09:47 AM
You guys have some very sophisticated guns already why get excited about something that is clearly inferior to what you already have. Alistair

JCHannum
05-06-2013, 10:10 AM
There is some more information in this link, including a video with a stirring soundtrack but no information. It is a .380.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/05/06/wiki-weapons-fires-first-100-3d-printed-handgun/

garagemark
05-06-2013, 10:39 AM
Media blowing it all out of proportion as usual. Any goon with quite basic tools could make something that fired a bullet at least as well as that thing does and probably with less risk - if they had the inclination. The printer doesn't open up any new avenues except bringing it to the attention of people who hadn't thought about it before.

That says it all.

Hell, I could weld up a crude gun out of shop junk that would at least fire more than one round, and it would be more accurate, rifling or not. And I don't even have eight thousand dollars in my welder.

adatesman
05-06-2013, 11:38 AM
Iv seen jacketed 22's. I have no idea why one would bother, but they exist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:22-45.jpg

As above, those .22 are not jacketed. But you're correct, they oftentimes do come jacketed, and more commonly with hollow point. Got a couple boxes of them down in the safe. My guess for why is to cut down on lead fouling on an already very dirty cartridge.

From wiki:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/61/.22_LR.jpg/800px-.22_LR.jpg

lazlo
05-06-2013, 11:45 AM
He's the crazy UT Austin Law student who's got a penchant for making hyperbolic headlines. He got Stratasys to donate a machine to him, and when they found out what he was going to do with it, they came out the same day it was delivered and confiscated it.

Since then, he printed an AR lower. People pointed out that you can buy plastic AR lowers, so he's taking it up a notch. He seems bound and determined to get raided by the ATF, which he'll turn into a media event.

dp
05-06-2013, 12:23 PM
You learn something every day - I've never heard of a jacketed .22 rimfire except for the Winchester Magnum Rimfire round. I have several boxes of flat-tip jacketed WMR rounds for my North American Arms Derringer pistol. I call it Little Sparky because most of the powder is still burning 10' beyond the muzzle. It is not an interchangeable round in many weapons for the .22 LR. However - .22 is referred to for such rounds as the Hornady 22, a boat-tail bullet with no prayer of being fired in a standard .22 rimfire rifle/pistol. Jacketed rounds exist in several "22" bores from .222 to .227 and are commonly called 22 cal rounds. Just not 22 cal rimfire for that 22 rifle you got when you joined the Boy Scouts.

JCHannum
05-06-2013, 12:26 PM
As above, those .22 are not jacketed. But you're correct, they oftentimes do come jacketed, and more commonly with hollow point. Got a couple boxes of them down in the safe. My guess for why is to cut down on lead fouling on an already very dirty cartridge.

From wiki:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/61/.22_LR.jpg/800px-.22_LR.jpg

The round on the right is a 22WMR, which do come jacketed although that one appears to be plated. As stated before, the 22 S,L&LR rimfire ammunition is not available jacketed. Plated yes, not jacketed.

The maker may be anticipating making some sort of a statement, but by any information I have seen on the gun, he has to be consciously in violation of ATF regulations as I see no way the barrrel can be effectively rifled.

garagemark
05-06-2013, 12:55 PM
Those shells are all the same, probably long rifle. The one on the right is a lighter bullet, copper plated, high velocity. Thus the longer case. But all three are identical length. WMR is much longer than the long rifle.

Bob D.
05-06-2013, 02:10 PM
The round on the right is a 22WMR, which do come jacketed although that one appears to be plated. As stated before, the 22 S,L&LR rimfire ammunition is not available jacketed. Plated yes, not jacketed.

.

The round on the right looks to me like a .22LR CCI Stinger. 32gr Cu plated bullet, case slightly longer than standard .22 LR

.22 mag is bigger both in case diameter and overall length, with a true jacket, not plated like the ones shown in this pic.

Willy
05-06-2013, 02:27 PM
The round on the right looks to me like a .22LR CCI Stinger. .32gr Cu plated bullet, case slightly longer than standard .22 LR

.22 mag is bigger both in case diameter and overall length, with a true jacket, not plated like the ones shown in this pic.

Definitely a CCI Stinger on the right.
The 22 WMR cartridge has an overall loaded length a touch over 34 mm versus the 25 mm of the .22 long rifle cartridges pictured above.

Willy
05-06-2013, 02:45 PM
Iv seen jacketed 22's. I have no idea why one would bother, but they exist.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:22-45.jpg

You are probably thinking of the plating often seen on high velocity .22 cartridges.
Most .22 caliber cartridges use a soft lead bullet that without the plating tends to lead foul the bore of the firearm it's fired in.
Hard cast bullets are a little better in this regard but at the low velocities of these cartridges they are not a viable choice due to lack of expansion. Also bare in mind that the .22 cartridge is sold by the millions so a true jacketed bullet would not be a cost effective choice.

Black_Moons
05-06-2013, 04:36 PM
Ah, was not aware plated bullets existed, I thought they where all jacketed.
As far as barrel rifling, I was not aware that was a (legal) requirement. Shotguns certain don't need it.

Of course, I could never figure out why a shotgun was legal to fire over a 0.5" slug, when its illegal to fire over a 0.5" bullet. "Oh but its a shotgun" "And then I rifled the barrel for more accuracy" "Its still a shotgun"

Dr Stan
05-06-2013, 06:04 PM
Looks like a candidate for a Darwin Award to me.

lazlo
05-06-2013, 06:27 PM
There is some more information in this link, including a video with a stirring soundtrack but no information. It is a .380.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/05/06/wiki-weapons-fires-first-100-3d-printed-handgun/

Like JC says, it's a .380

Good article about Cody on Forbes:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/05/05/meet-the-liberator-test-firing-the-worlds-first-fully-3d-printed-gun/

michigan doug
05-06-2013, 07:06 PM
I think it has less to do with making home printed guns available. I think it has more to do with demonstrating that gun laws don't magically make guns disappear. He seems to have accomplished that goal, in terms of making people think about it. You can make a shotgun out of two telescoping pieces of pipe, a pipe cap and a thumbtack. It's called the Four Winds shotgun (not that I recommend making such a device...).

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13116475/4-Winds-Shotgun

On a technical matter, the BATFE requires that there be rifling present. The rifling does not have to be effective, it just has to be there. That is my current understanding.

doug

lazlo
05-06-2013, 07:07 PM
http://www.scribd.com/doc/13116475/4-Winds-Shotgun

Kurt Saxon -- LOL! "The Poor Man's James Bond" :D

andywander
05-06-2013, 08:29 PM
The barrel could easily be printed with rifling.

Zero_Divide
05-06-2013, 10:25 PM
The barrel could easily be printed with rifling.

Though since its softer than the bullet rifling will not work a damn bit.

May as well 3d print your self an FBI brass

Tony Ennis
05-06-2013, 10:48 PM
Ah, was not aware plated bullets existed, I thought they where all jacketed.
As far as barrel rifling, I was not aware that was a (legal) requirement. Shotguns certain don't need it.

Of course, I could never figure out why a shotgun was legal to fire over a 0.5" slug, when its illegal to fire over a 0.5" bullet. "Oh but its a shotgun" "And then I rifled the barrel for more accuracy" "Its still a shotgun"

Smoothbore muskets are not illegal. .54 caliber and larger black powder rifles and pistols are not illegal.

tyrone shewlaces
05-06-2013, 11:04 PM
Would I fire it? I guess I would if I was dared. I wouldn't be too afraid of safety on a .22 - looks beefy enough.
What I certainly wouldn't do is waste any time or money designing or making one. I'm a bit of a gun guy and proving I could print one is not even on my radar. I have a 3D printer and if I noticed that a gun somehow made it on my list of things to eventually print, I'd take it back off the list. Just a useless waste of effort. I'd honestly rather print a cool-looking rubber band gun toy and/or just take a real .22 out and go plinking.
meh

adatesman
05-06-2013, 11:11 PM
The round on the right is a 22WMR, which do come jacketed although that one appears to be plated. As stated before, the 22 S,L&LR rimfire ammunition is not available jacketed. Plated yes, not jacketed.

I guess in this context I don't see the point in differentiating between plated and jacketed.

Regardless, I'm afraid you're incorrect WRT the one on the right being different than the other two... WMR is much longer than LR (in addition to the WMR case being larger diameter). This is just a sample of the plated/jacketed/whatever ones I have laying around in the safe (so to speak). As you can clearly see, the .22Mag/WMR is clearly longer than the rest and there's no mistaking it for a .22LR.

http://www.shariconglobal.com/misc/hsm/22rf.jpg

Edit- I didn't mean to pile on here; just responded before catching up with the thread. :)

Willy
05-06-2013, 11:24 PM
Edit- I didn't mean to pile on here; just responded before catching up with the thread.

Yeah me neither;), but isn't the third round from the top in your picture a .22 long?

adatesman
05-06-2013, 11:36 PM
Yeah me neither;), but isn't the third round from the top in your picture a .22 long?

Quite possible given it's been floating around in an unlabeled box for ~10 years, but I recall that box being subsonic LR and don't think I've ever seen .22long, let alone bought any. I do know it was bought at the same time as the .22Short, and at the time I was looking for a quiet in-town gopher solution and also grabbed a box of .22LR Subsonic.

Edit- that said, looking at some pics it sure looks like that might be a Long. One of these days I'll get around to just firing off all this old, half-remembered stuff, as it was mostly for things I now use the air rifle for.

andywander
05-06-2013, 11:57 PM
The point is, it has rifling, so it is legal to own without the special license.

Doesn't matter if the rifling works.

JCHannum
05-07-2013, 08:52 AM
I did missidentify the Stinger, the longer case length threw me off. The 22 long is basically a 22 LR case with a 22 short bullet. The LR subsonic approximates it dimensionally. Aguila makes several different low velocity and subsonic 22 rounds and, I believe the 22 long as well.

The rifling legislation for handguns was to outlaw zip guns. While application in this case might be a bit hazy at this point, it can quite easily be modified to include this particular gun. One of the writeups mentions using an acetone flush to smooth up the bore of the barrel so I doubt it has even rudimentary rifling, hence ownership is a felony.

firbikrhd1
05-07-2013, 10:00 AM
I don't claim to know much about 3D printers, but I see no reason off hand that a chamber strong enough couldn't be made of a high strength steel and the remainder of the gun printed around it. Even a barrel liner could be printed around to make a rifled barrel.
One other point, my brother in law is in the 3D printer field, promoting them to schools and industry. We had a conversation last Sunday about them and he told me that there are already 3D printers that can print with softer metals. As technology progresses I have no doubt that metals of all kinds will be used in 3D printers. The cost for metal 3D printers may end up being too high for the average HSM gun maker to own one, but if other technologies are any indication, eventually they may find their way into home shops.

flylo
05-07-2013, 11:07 AM
Michigan Doug They use somthing close to those for killing sharks & Gators called Bang Sticks. Not considered firearms but have to be on a 26" or longer pole I believe & come in sizes from 22 to 12 ga..

I think it has less to do with making home printed guns available. I think it has more to do with demonstrating that gun laws don't magically make guns disappear. He seems to have accomplished that goal, in terms of making people think about it. You can make a shotgun out of two telescoping pieces of pipe, a pipe cap and a thumbtack. It's called the Four Winds shotgun (not that I recommend making such a device...).

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13116475/4-Winds-Shotgun

On a technical matter, the BATFE requires that there be rifling present. The rifling does not have to be effective, it just has to be there. That is my current understanding.

doug

Stuart Br
05-10-2013, 02:28 PM
Risking some wrath by resurrecting this thread, but The Register* has posted a highly critical and amusing review.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/05/10/oh_no_its_the_plastic_3d_gun/

* BTW for those not in the know. The Register or "El Reg" to its friends, is a tabloid style web news site for IT and technology.

dp
05-10-2013, 02:40 PM
This didn't take long:

http://betabeat.com/2013/05/defense-distributed-state-department-cody-wilson-3d-guns/

Black_Moons
05-10-2013, 04:47 PM
If rifling is required, what about shotguns? Shotguns typicaly are not rifled, yet they are legal.

loose nut
05-10-2013, 04:59 PM
Why worry about rifling, anyone making one of these "firearms" isn't going to care what the BATF thinks or says.

andywander
05-10-2013, 05:25 PM
If rifling is required, what about shotguns? Shotguns typicaly are not rifled, yet they are legal.

I never claimed the laws made sense.......but a shotgun with a barrel length under, IIRC, 16" is covered under the same law.

That's why the Taurus Judge is not available with a smooth bore.

Paul Alciatore
05-10-2013, 05:32 PM
Precisely!

Law makers are stupid. We certainly have enough examples of that.

Besides, how do you know it does not work? Has anybody ever tested plastic barrels before this?




The point is, it has rifling, so it is legal to own without the special license.

Doesn't matter if the rifling works.

lazlo
05-10-2013, 08:16 PM
This didn't take long:

http://betabeat.com/2013/05/defense-distributed-state-department-cody-wilson-3d-guns/

LOL! That's what he wants -- he really wants to make a media event out of being raided by the ATF. But in this case, they got him on ITAR (munition export controls) which as any commercial gun manufacturer will tell you, has been a major pain in the butt since 1977.

http://www.archives.gov/federal-register/codification/executive-order/11958.html

Black_Moons
05-10-2013, 10:49 PM
I never claimed the laws made sense.......but a shotgun with a barrel length under, IIRC, 16" is covered under the same law.

That's why the Taurus Judge is not available with a smooth bore.

Ah, So his problem was he didn't make the barrel long and/or accurate enough! I can see how lawmakers would have a problem with that. *cough*

michigan doug
05-11-2013, 01:54 PM
Yeah, let's just take it down off the internet. That'll work...

Cody has already had something like 100k downloads, and the files are now widely available on overseas sites that the US will find difficult to influence. Once it's out in torrent land, there is no "going back".

I suspect Cody wants to have a legal confrontation with the feds, in a sort of David vs Goliath contest. If I were Goliath, I would tread carefully. There are very few outcomes that would help the feds. If they punish him severely (either by legitimate legal means, or by making something up) in the hopes of preventing future similar projects by cody or others, lots of second amendment people will take a dim view of that and it could have a lot of backlash at the next elections. Plus, it won't stop innovation of this sort. And, it would make them look like bullies.

If they tackle him legally, and lose, they lose big.


Damned if they do, damned if they don't.


Glad I'm not in charge...

doug

(you're right Eric, the shotgun I mentioned is functionally the same thing as a bang stick.)

lazlo
05-11-2013, 02:06 PM
Yeah, let's just take it down off the internet. That'll work...

Cody has already had something like 100k downloads, and the files are now widely available on overseas sites that the US will find difficult to influence. Once it's out in torrent land, there is no "going back".

It's an interesting legal precedent: claiming that posting the Iges files for a 3D printable gun is exporting munitions. Cody is a UT law student, so I presume he's got enough free legal advice that it holds weight.

The guys on CNC Gunsmithing (www.cncguns.com) post Iges and Dxf files for AR's, and AFAIK, no one has been hit with an ITAR violation...

Dr Stan
05-11-2013, 02:41 PM
So he's a UT law student, to steal a phrase "that don't impress me much". Cody is just another crank who likes to live on the edge of legal & illegal just like the film maker who "exposed" Acorn. He will eventually cross the line far enough to find himself facing some sort of Federal charges. All we have to do is wait.

The Artful Bodger
05-11-2013, 04:46 PM
I guess there will be so much demand for 3D printer that I will never be able to afford one.:rolleyes:

Boostinjdm
05-11-2013, 06:26 PM
My thought is....If you can afford a 3D printer, you can afford a gun. So I don't see where anyone would think this was a cheap way to get a gun.

wierdscience
05-11-2013, 07:25 PM
Unless 3d printers end up selling for $200 at Walmart.

Willy
05-11-2013, 08:48 PM
$200-$300 3D printers are already a reality.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/03/tech/innovation/3d-printer-makibox

I'm sure there will be limitations for these bargain priced units, because just like everything else, you get what you pay for.
But wait a couple of years and I'm sure the features will go up and the prices will go down as these units become more mainstream.

macona
05-12-2013, 04:27 AM
There are $600 3d printers on the market. One of the guys in the model engineering club I am in has one and he brought in parts he made with it in an attempt to build a clock with it. The parts were crap. Warped in every which way. The Dimension SST printer like the one this guy used to build the pistol uses a heated chamber to build the part in which eliminates a lot of the problems, the heated chamber is still under patent so the little guy cant do that.

But in the end the fed govt is just grasping at straws trying to figure out how to deal with this.

beanbag
05-12-2013, 05:33 AM
One thing I learned from reading the news related to this is that some people REALLY want their guns, and some people REALLY want to prevent others from having guns.

Sun God
05-12-2013, 07:18 AM
Credit where credit's due, Cody has managed to do what Paladin Press et. al. had failed to do before him - memetize improvised gunmaking, by combining it with another 'meme of the moment', 3D printing.

And that's why it's got all the statist talking heads frothing with confected outrage on telly - not because of what it is, but because it plants a seed that totally subverts the 'gun control' model - 'you can't have a gun because we say so' doesn't work as a business model when people understand they can make one regardless.

Sure the present state of the art is a bit rubbish, if not impressive as a technical achievement. He could have just as easily designed another Four Winds shotgun, or 9mm pipe sub machine gun, either of which are vastly easier to produce and far more effective firearms, and arguably better 'improvised gun' memes; instead he's managed to make a whole lot of gun banners look awfully silly and achieved something else altogether.

I think that is what the guy is actually trying to achieve - a 3D printable gun is just the vehicle to get him there.

John Stevenson
05-12-2013, 07:39 AM
This is being covered in the US, by a US citizen and looked at under US laws.
The US isn't interested if Herr Smitt downloads this in Germany, only how it is covered by US law.

So not being a US citizen I have to ask

"How hard is it to obtain a hand gun legally / illegally in the US ?"

And then the second question which is the same but replace handgun with ammunition.

Hasn't the media trigged on to the fact that a large proportion of people can buy the necessary equipment i.e. lathe to make a better weapon than this at even lower cost give that the cheap 3D printers will not do this.

I could make a gun here in the UK in a heartbeat but can't obtain any ammunition for it without showing a license and that would only get me shotgun shells.

Sun God
05-12-2013, 08:50 AM
I think, John, you might find it easier to get hold of some ammunition than you imagine - especially a simple box of 12 bore cartridges; imagine how many have been lost or left haphazardly in farmhouses or barns over the years. You just have to ask the right questions of the right people. It's just like narcotics - if there is a market for it, there will be someone at the pub who can scrounge it for you.

That's part of the reason all this confected outrage in the media is so funny, and is exactly the point I was trying to get across - this is only interesting to the media because of the 3D printing angle. They can't relate to actually making something from first principles - they've probably never been in a hardware store - so assume you, the reader, can't either. But printing? That's a black box concept you can explain to anyone in a simple soundbyte - plastic goes in, gun comes out.

rmwise
05-12-2013, 11:13 AM
John,

It is relatively easy to acquire a handgun in the US. I bought one recently, pick the one you want, fill out the 4473 form, the dealer calls the background check phone system for the OK. Less than 20 minutes out the door. With ammunition. Some states are a little different, there are a few with waiting periods, usually a few days.

Ammunition is far easier to get, typically no ID needed, only a few places record the sale. At least that is how it is TODAY. It could well change tomorrow.

loose nut
05-12-2013, 11:18 AM
"How hard is it to obtain a hand gun legally / illegally in the US ?"


I could make a gun here in the UK in a heartbeat but can't obtain any ammunition for it

1. it isn't hard at all legal or otherwise

2. John if you can and wanted to make a gun then you can make the ammo for it. People have machined shell casings out of solid, so can you. You have to make the powder and primers but that's what the web is for. It's all out there.

The "man" will never be able to stop people from getting what they want.

Black_Moons
05-12-2013, 11:44 AM
There are $600 3d printers on the market. One of the guys in the model engineering club I am in has one and he brought in parts he made with it in an attempt to build a clock with it. The parts were crap. Warped in every which way. The Dimension SST printer like the one this guy used to build the pistol uses a heated chamber to build the part in which eliminates a lot of the problems, the heated chamber is still under patent so the little guy cant do that.

But in the end the fed govt is just grasping at straws trying to figure out how to deal with this.

Oh yes, Heaters, Big invention there. Why im still siting here in my unheated chamber freezing my ass off in the winter. *cough*
Stupid patents, they make me sick.

Dr Stan
05-12-2013, 01:57 PM
"How hard is it to obtain a hand gun legally / illegally in the US ?"

And then the second question which is the same but replace handgun with ammunition.

In most jurisdictions no more difficult than buying a gallon of milk. You may need to fill out a form and wait less than 1/2 an hour in some cases, but in others all you have to do is hand over the money. Same way with ammo.

dp
05-12-2013, 02:32 PM
In most jurisdictions no more difficult than buying a gallon of milk. You may need to fill out a form and wait less than 1/2 an hour in some cases, but in others all you have to do is hand over the money. Same way with ammo.

The last one I bought took longer for me to choose than to buy. 1/2 hour for the clearance. I have a concealed weapons permit which in this state seems to reduce the wait time. I expect the next one to take much longer as there are no guns to buy at the moment (in the category of interest to me). Recent events have been very good for the firearms and ammunition industries.

lazlo
05-12-2013, 03:59 PM
Cody has managed to do what Paladin Press et. al. had failed to do before him - memetize improvised gunmaking, by combining it with another 'meme of the moment', 3D printing.

And that's why it's got all the statist talking heads frothing with confected outrage on telly - not because of what it is, but because it plants a seed that totally subverts the 'gun control' model - 'you can't have a gun because we say so' doesn't work as a business model when people understand they can make one regardless.

Sure the present state of the art is a bit rubbish, if not impressive as a technical achievement.

I think that is what the guy is actually trying to achieve - a 3D printable gun is just the vehicle to get him there.

What a great post!

If you haven't read The Register's article, it's highly recommended:


Liberator': Proof that you CAN'T make a working gun in a 3D printer
No need to pry this piece of crap out of my fingers

People are missing one important point about the "Liberator" 3D-printed "plastic gun": it isn't any more a gun than any other very short piece of plastic pipe is a "gun".

Seriously. That's all a Liberator is: a particularly crappy pipe, because it is made of lots of laminated layers in a 3D printer. Attached to the back of the pipe is a needlessly bulky and complicated mechanism allowing you to bang a lump of plastic with a nail in it against the end of the pipe.

When the nail hits the cap in the cartridge base in a Liberator, the expanding gas likewise pushes the lead bullet off the end of the cartridge and down the "barrel" pipe. Much of the gas leaks past due to the loose fit and soft material of the "barrel". The lump of plastic with the nail (probably) stops the cartridge case spitting out of the back, which is pretty easy as the bullet pops out of the extremely short, basically smooth* "barrel" almost immediately with very little push from the gas required. Most of the cartridge's hot gas spills out of the muzzle without getting a chance to do any work on the bullet, which is the main reason the cruddy "barrel" doesn't (always) come to bits on the first shot and the cartridge case (probably) doesn't just spit backward into the user's face.

It's not a gun. It's not even a 1950s style "zip gun": the pipe used for zip guns is a lot better than you can make in a 3D printer, and is correspondingly more effective - and safer.

The Liberator's bullet emerges going very slowly and wobbling or tumbling due to lack of spin. It might go almost anywhere, though not very far, and is unlikely to do much damage to anything it manages to hit.

It's a bit better than holding up a cartridge in a pair of pliers and banging the cap with a centrepunch or similar, but not much.

http://regmedia.co.uk/2013/05/09/liberator_parts1.png


Anyone that shoots AR's will recognize that Cody took the Iges files for an AR lower, chopped it down, and put a plastic plug on the end :)

John Stevenson
05-12-2013, 05:37 PM
In most jurisdictions no more difficult than buying a gallon of milk. You may need to fill out a form and wait less than 1/2 an hour in some cases, but in others all you have to do is hand over the money. Same way with ammo.

This is what i expected as an answer but had to ask.

Which now asks the next question, is a handgun, read cheap here or S/H not a magnum or collectors item, more money than say a $900 3D printer ?

If no then why bother to print one ?

Dr Stan
05-12-2013, 05:48 PM
This is what i expected as an answer but had to ask.

Which now asks the next question, is a handgun, read cheap here or S/H not a magnum or collectors item, more money than say a $900 3D printer ?

If no then why bother to print one ?

I've seen everything from "Saturday Night Specials" that literally used a piece of pipe as the barrel and the action, etc was made using permanent molding out of aluminum/zinc alloy costing $50 to $75 up to & including highly sophisticated competition pistols worth thousands of dollars. About 20 years ago I paid $250 at a gun show for my wife's brand new Smith & Wesson stainless steel Model K with walnut grips & a raised rib sight. I have no idea what it would cost today.

lazlo
05-12-2013, 05:54 PM
is a handgun, read cheap here or S/H not a magnum or collectors item, more money than say a $900 3D printer ?
If no then why bother to print one ?

To get your 15 minutes of fame.

John Stevenson
05-12-2013, 06:11 PM
To get your 15 minutes of fame.

As Winston Churchill once said "There but for the grace of God, goes God."

Boostinjdm
05-12-2013, 07:29 PM
This is what i expected as an answer but had to ask.

Which now asks the next question, is a handgun, read cheap here or S/H not a magnum or collectors item, more money than say a $900 3D printer ?

If no then why bother to print one ?

I've never paid over $400 for a handgun. All of mine were purchased new.
To answer a previous question....It only takes a few minutes for me to purchase a gun. Show my permit to carry weapons (qualifies as backround check), pay, and fill out the transfer paperwork. Then find the nearest range on the way home.