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chucketn
05-12-2013, 01:03 PM
My recycled house type upright vacuumbit the dust today. The armature is burnt and the brushes are aboutgone. I need some recommendations for a replacement for the shop.Mostly metal work so needs to be powerful enough to suck up swarf,but not get it into the workings.
I intend to build a cyclone typeseparator to put inline with the vac to help prevent metal dustgetting into the motor . What is the minimum power required? Will 3HP be enough?
On a budget of course! I have acollection of tools and hoses saved from various other vacuums so Ican adapt down to 1 1/2 accessories. I'm looking at 3 hp ShopVacmodel from Wally World. Around $60.
What are your favorites? Anyone build asimple cyclone separator?


Chuck

jdunmyer
05-12-2013, 01:12 PM
Chuck,
My Sears/Craftsman shop vac is over 40 years old and still going strong. There's no doubt that the design has changed, but let me point out a couple of features:

I used part of the frame and the casters from an office chair and fastened it to the drum with a single bolt. The footprint and caster size are much larger, making the thing easy to roll around.

The top of the drum has the motor assy. sitting down inside it by a couple of inches. This makes a perfect place to coil the hose and/or cord between uses. The unit I bought for the woodshop has a rack on the side for the attachments and it isn't nearly as handy.

Just something to look for.

Cuttings
05-12-2013, 01:35 PM
I have a 5 HP Rigid compact shop vac. I got from Home Depot. It has served me well for quite a few years now.
It has plenty of suction to pick up most things. When I first got it I almost sucked the mats right out of the car, it will try and pick them up if you get too close.
It has a filter inside so nothing can get into the motor. I bought an extra filter so I could always have a clean one available.
I recently knocked most of the dirt out of the filters then gave them a good wash in warm water and soap.
Then they were rinsed out with fresh water and put out in the sun to dry. Good to go again now.

lugnut
05-12-2013, 01:48 PM
I built a cyclone separator for my Sears 3 HP vac, I used a plastic 5 gal. bucket with lid. I used 2" hoses and PVC pipe fittings. Very simple and I get Nothing into the vacs filter or canister. I tried to find the exact plans I found on the net but could not find them. Here is a link to some photo of nearly the same thing I built.
https://www.google.com/search?q=cyclone+separator&client=firefox-a&hs=5yG&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=PNOPUcv0EYOgiALx5IGYBQ&ved=0CGEQsAQ&biw=1679&bih=869#client=firefox-a&hs=1zG&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&q=diy+cyclone+separator&revid=1264655892&sa=X&ei=dtOPUeqPMMqEiwKopYHIAg&ved=0CHgQgxY&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.46340616,d.cGE&fp=8254f19c03a26416&biw=1679&bih=869
Mel

Rich Carlstedt
05-12-2013, 02:29 PM
Have used the same Sears Shop-vac for 20+ years
It is a 1 or 1 1/2 HP unit with the corrugated filter ( YES !)
The vac is outside the shop, so I hear nothing.
The white 2 " PVC pipe in the picture goes into the floor and under the floor to the rear of the shop , which is below floor height , and the location of the Vac.
The 20 pound grease drum has a 2" tangential copper pipe soldered in place, and a 2 # coffee can, with no ends attached under the lid as a deflector.
The flag in the bottom of the drum has a steel weight, and its function is to stop swirling chips/dust.
The only thing that makes it to the vac outside is dust, or the occasional paper rag.
I empty the drum 2 x a year.
For wet chips, I pour saw dust on the mill first, and then vacuum it up 15 minutes later,
For long stringers , I have 1x1x1 wood blocks cut from scrap on hand. Throw a few into the suction line to keep the flow open
Rich
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj220/StationarySteam/Shop%20Tools/ShopVacuumContainer2.jpg (http://s273.photobucket.com/user/StationarySteam/media/Shop%20Tools/ShopVacuumContainer2.jpg.html)
http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj220/StationarySteam/Shop%20Tools/ShopVacuumContainer.jpg (http://s273.photobucket.com/user/StationarySteam/media/Shop%20Tools/ShopVacuumContainer.jpg.html)

Euph0ny
05-12-2013, 02:43 PM
Mine is a Starmix (http://www.starmix.de/index.asp?lng=eng), rebadged as a Metabo. It has given sterling service without a bobble, including de-dustifying a two-year building site (many hundreds of kilos of dust, sand and assorted grime removed in 5kg bags), while we renovated our house. I like the idea of putting a bucket/cyclone/trap in the line for shop use, but I don't worry about using it as-is either.

vincemulhollon
05-12-2013, 03:05 PM
I have a 5 HP Rigid compact shop vac.

LOL I have the same machine and the marketing always makes me laugh, yeah I've got that on a 10 awg line and a 30 amp breaker LOL its more like a quarter horsepower electrical on a plain ole 110v ckt.

Its a pretty good vac aside from the marketing making me laugh.

Peter N
05-12-2013, 03:49 PM
I've been using an old Dyson in the workshop for about 10 years picking up dry/oily/wet swarf, and dust from the grinders. One of these days I might even replace the original filter that's still in there.
You can pick up the old models for peanuts here in the UK (don't know about that side of the Pond) and they really are very good for this sort of work, the only possible downside is the small-ish waste canister compared to purpose built shop vacs, but it's simple enough to empty it.

http://www.admould.co.uk/OddDocs/dyson.jpg

chucketn
05-12-2013, 04:22 PM
I think I've found my answer! Lowe's has a kit for a shop vac built on a plastic bucket for US$22.00, plus got directed to a cyclone type separator also built on a 5 gal plastic bucket. Lowe's has the buckets for US$4.00 and lids for $2.

Chuck

taydin
05-12-2013, 04:23 PM
I have a Bosch GAS50. The biggest advantage of this one is its performance with fine stone dust. I have used this vac with a concrete grinder to remove old cement based thinset. A regular vac gets clogged up within a matter of seconds, whereas the gas50 just keeps sucking and sucking. The sucking power with metal chips is great as well.

Arthur.Marks
05-12-2013, 07:19 PM
I have one of the Ridgid vacs as well. Works fine for me cleaning up chips and the like, but lately its noise level is really bothering me. I added the Ridgid exhaust "muffler" and air dispersing thing. Well... it does break up the solid stream of air coming out of the exhaust which is helpful, but by no means at all does this thing muffle any noise one bit :( Might have to see if sticking some other muffler on the exhaust port changes anything. It usually doesn't matter, but I've been drilling wood lately. I leave it on all the time for that and even with my noise muffling headset it sounds like a cyclone! :eek:

vincemulhollon
05-13-2013, 08:06 AM
lately its noise level is really bothering me

I have probably the same model and experimentation with extension hoses shows that the noise mostly comes from the motor and impeller, the air movement is relatively quiet. So I have enough extension cords/hoses to put the works in another room. Considering how well it would burn if I find a way to ignite it, I feel worried about blue chips soaked with cutting oil. Other than evacuate and call the insurance agent I have no idea what to do if it lights off. I'd pay serious dough for an all metal shop vac, if they were on the market.

This strategy also helps when vacuuming the dog, the terrifying noise source is in the next room so the dog doesn't mind, in fact kinda enjoyed it even as it had a wary eye on the noisy motor in the next room.

Doozer
05-13-2013, 08:13 AM
I have also been told that the Bosch vac is super good, and expensive. Also heard the Fien vac is very nice (and expansive). The consensus is that the Rigid vac works well and is a fair deal. My dad bought the new shop vac and the motor had burned out twice already. They used to be good, but not any more, seemingly. --Doozer

j king
05-13-2013, 08:44 AM
I bought 2 rigid vacs from Home Depot. They have a lifetime warranty. I figured I would come out ahead.

firbikrhd1
05-13-2013, 10:59 AM
I have a Bosch GAS50. The biggest advantage of this one is its performance with fine stone dust. I have used this vac with a concrete grinder to remove old cement based thinset. A regular vac gets clogged up within a matter of seconds, whereas the gas50 just keeps sucking and sucking. The sucking power with metal chips is great as well.

What is it about the Bosch GAS 50 that allows it to ingest fine stone dust without clogging? As you say, my old Craftsman shop vac's filter clogs in seconds.

Euph0ny
05-13-2013, 11:44 AM
I have a Bosch GAS50. The biggest advantage of this one is its performance with fine stone dust.

I think you'll find that Bosch machine is also a rebranded Starmix, like mine. Mine happens to be a 'Metabo' because they were on special offer the day I was buying - the shop also had your 'Bosch' or one very like it, a similar 'Makita' and a Starmix own-brand - all the same 1300W hardware, under the branding and colour-scheme, but the 'Metabo' badged one was cheapest that day. All were the same Starmix machine according to the salesman.

Mine is also excellent on fine dust. I noticed that my plumber, my plasterer and my painter all have similar machines, so they are certainly popular among tradespeople here.

Euph0ny
05-13-2013, 11:48 AM
What is it about the Bosch GAS 50 that allows it to ingest fine stone dust without clogging? As you say, my old Craftsman shop vac's filter clogs in seconds.

I think it has something to do with the size of the filter bags - they are huge. The motor itself is not particularly powerful (1300W). My wife was appalled when I spent a good deal of money on the shop vac, because she noticed that it is rated the same as her domestic Miele vacuum-cleaner. However, her entire machine would fit into the filter bag of the Metabo/Starmix. Many hundreds of kilos of cement, brick, stone and plaster dust later, she has decided that the shop vac was a good investment after all. :-)

taydin
05-13-2013, 12:06 PM
What is it about the Bosch GAS 50 that allows it to ingest fine stone dust without clogging? As you say, my old Craftsman shop vac's filter clogs in seconds.

This VAC also has a magnetic filter shaker. It detects that the air flow is reduced and starts the filter shaker until the normal air flow is restored. You need to use the paper bags when doing fine stone dust, though, otherwise the filter shaker keeps running most of the time and the sucking power is somewhat less than normal.

But for wood and metal work, I don't use the paper bags, because oil, coolant and similar wet stuff damages the bag. Besides, I get noticeably more suction without the bag...

RWO
05-13-2013, 01:12 PM
I have an old Sears unit that has given great service for over 20 years. The original corrugated paper filter used to plug up very quickly because the filter area was too small for the air flow rate. I modified the filter mount to take the next larger filter and that helped somewhat. I then discovered CleanStream filters and that was the final solution. I have been using the same filter for at least 10 years and it's still working great. When the pleats start to show some plugging, I just remove it and hose it off with the garden hose at max blast. It comes clean easily and is ready for reuse in a short time. Oily metal chips, wood and metal dust, etc. don't have any effect on the filter membrane.

So if CleanStream makes a filter for your vac, get one. They are not cheap, but they outperform the OEM filters by a mile in my experience: http://www.cleanstream.com/

RWO

chucketn
05-13-2013, 01:26 PM
Thanks for all the input. I have built a simple 'cyclone' separator from a plastic bucket and a couple of 1/2" plumbing fittings epoxied into holes in the lid. I will purchase some brand of shop vac in the next couple of days and see how it performs.

Chuck

Doozer
05-13-2013, 01:29 PM
Once a vacuum cleaner salesman came to the door, claiming his vacuum was better than the one I currently own (an old Kirby). So I invited him in to compare. I got out my old Kirby and he brought out the one he was selling. Wanted to compare suction and cleaning power, etc. Well his eyes got wide when I went and got my natural gas meter, ya know they grey one on the outside of the house that the gas company uses to bill you. He said what the heck does that do? Well, Da!? It measures cubic feet of gas. Read it steady for one minute, that is SCM. Well he hooked up his sucker and then hooked up my sucker. The old Kirby made the dials spin faster than his. OWNED!!! He said no one in his 10 years of selling vacuums ever pulled out a gas meter to test his claims. Lesson? Don't mess with Doozer.

Bruce Griffing
05-13-2013, 01:52 PM
If you are trying to pick up chips with oil or coolant, the input hose to the cyclone will clog up over time if it does not have a smooth bore. Check out the link for smooth bore hoses. This is the manufacturer - the site has links to dealers.

http://www.mrnozzleinc.com/