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View Full Version : Thinking about making a Arbor Press and looking for opinions.



iMisspell
05-19-2013, 12:01 AM
Main use (as far as i can see)
- Broaching (want 13" of ram travel)
- Pressing bushings & bearings

* Looking on craigslist (and will continue to) for a bigger one with at least 13" of ram travel, have not found anything yet.
* Thought of getting a small one (1 ton) and making a table for under it which would give clearance for using 12" broaches.
* Buy a larger with 10"+ of travel = $600+ and then the freight charge (would guess around $70-100 for that)
* Make one of my own.

Right now (and the past) for light/small broaching i would use ether a mortise machine or drill press and if the broach was longer i would bring the part to work. Really not to thrilled about any of those options so it might be time for one of my own.

Dont have a lot of room/space.
Would like a manual rather then a hydraulic so i can 'feel' whats going on with smaller parts and smaller broaches, etc.
Will not be using this very often.

Making my own - was thinking...
- The hardest part (that i can see) would be the ram. Was thinking of using a 20deg 8 Pitch (1.5" face) steel gear rack welded to a piece of cold-"rolled" solid (2") square bar stock.

- Base: maybe a piece of 1/2" x 12" x 18" plate steel for the base with three 3/4 ribs (running full length front to back) welded under the plate and two pieces of box tubing welded perpendicular to the ribs, one in the front one in the back for stability.

- Swivel base: 7"dia x 2" thick cast iron slug.

- Upper housing - i have a piece of i-beam here 4" x 2.625" x 28" long, cut that in 1/2 (rough dimension), one for vertical one for horizontal along with two "triangle" plates welded on both sides of the joint at the top.

- Some "type" of ratchet head, was thinking a double key on the shaft with four "slots" cut in a sleeve or some kind of notched coupler.

For the above, rough (high) cost is about $375-400 in material and i will get the 13" inch of travel im looking for.

All of that is just rough ideas... everything needs to be thought out more... only thing which i would really like is 13" of travel in the ram. Gonna work on a drawing later tonight or tomorrow night.

For the cost of things a 1 ton from harbor freight with a home made table under it sounds good, but not sure how well that will work with larger 'C' size broaches cutting steel (and spacers would also be needed).

Any opinions, ideas - do's or dont's ?


EDIT: Adding visual... Its to scale, but still, just rough ideas.
Base 12" wide, 18" deep.
http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a570/iMisspell/Projects/Metal/Arbor_Press/Arbor_Press_zps349e4aa3.jpg (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/iMisspell/media/Projects/Metal/Arbor_Press/Arbor_Press_zps349e4aa3.jpg.html)




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oxford
05-19-2013, 12:09 AM
I'm interested in this as I can't say I have never thought of not making one.

RussZHC
05-19-2013, 12:31 AM
Hmmm, I puzzle a bit over this as well, for same reasons I suspect and those have largely to do with the 13" of travel. If you look at the usual suspects, using Dake as example, to get that range of travel you are soon limited to the Model 1 1/2 B which ain't cheap and used ones, even on EBay only come up occasionally.

What it really begs for is, I think, what you describe...the mechanism from a model size more readily available moved to a home built part that gives the range you need.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ARBOR-PRESS-5-TON-/320971858546?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item4abb69e272

sort of like that. Have seen photos of a few other home-built ones, seems like nearly anything in a general "C" shape has been tried...the one I recall locally was just a bunch of heavier wall square tube welded up.
While I can see it working, given the uses, I would want a bit of engineering behind it as I have seen some pretty dodgy looking set-ups (that goes for other types of home made presses as well), frankly I am a little afraid of the unknown, hydraulics for sure but other types of presses are certainly not my forte.

mixdenny
05-19-2013, 12:47 AM
The readily available 3 ton presses have enough travel for most broaches, but not enough height under the ram for many operations. The addition of a removable stage on the arbor press stand (several inches below the base of the press) gives you more room.

One idea I have had for an economical broaching press: use a side cranked trailer jack. They are available with a variety of travel lengths and have plenty of power. Simply make your own C frame and mount one on top. It would take a bit of cranking, but they travel very smoothly.

Dennis

gzig5
05-19-2013, 01:06 AM
We needed a press with more depth than the typical 2-3 ton arbor press would provide, but not much force for seating bearings on shafts. I made a 1/4" steel base plate with clearance in the ram area and then welded an inverted U to the bottom of it. This allowed us to seat bearing on shafts up to 20" long. The import (Jet??) arbor press was bolted and welded to the base plate at the front edge. There are other ways to make this type of extension more rigid to allow the full force from the press, but it worked for our use.

iMisspell
05-19-2013, 02:36 AM
.

Added image to main post....




... you are soon limited to the Model 1 1/2 B which ain't cheap and used ones, even on EBay only come up occasionally.Yea... then you get hit with the shipping and handling... them things aint light :)



The readily available 3 ton presses have enough travel for most broaches, but not enough height under the ram for many operations. The addition of a removable stage on the arbor press stand (several inches below the base of the press) gives you more room.
.... use a side cranked trailer jack... The 3 tons get up there in price also (around $300) when you have to have it truck freighted... then you have to make your "riser" which (i would guess) be around $100.
Was thinking something along them lines and having the "sub" base/table kind of like a hydraulic press where you could adjust the height with pins or have the legs of the sub-base telescope and held with pins (but with the press above weighing in around 100 lbs, raising and lowering that does not sound fun).

Still keeping that in mind, only thing which im not keen on is you will have to use spacers between the ram and the broach to be able to push all 12" of the broach.

macona
05-19-2013, 03:11 AM
That design is going to be more rubbery than John's Bridgeport.

John Stevenson
05-19-2013, 05:31 AM
I no longer own a Bridgeport.
POS has gone to India to make more P'sOS
CNC is sold and being collected Monday for onward transport.

posted from a POS free zone.

gvasale
05-19-2013, 09:41 AM
Don't know where you are in NY, so have you seen this? http://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/tls/3806404327.html

1200rpm
05-19-2013, 10:43 AM
are there any used equipment dealers in your area? they often have stuff like small arbor presses crammed into a corner somewhere, and typically don`t advertise the smaller stuff.

FWIW- my most used tool is a Greenerd #3 arbor press

gzig5
05-19-2013, 11:09 AM
Don't know where you are in NY, so have you seen this? http://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/tls/3806404327.html

That one has really been through the wringer. Notice the broken casting and mushroomed arbor from being beat on.

Forestgnome
05-19-2013, 12:31 PM
I wouldn't think an arbor press would have enough oomph to drive a broach. Have you considered making a screw press?

oxford
05-19-2013, 06:00 PM
I wouldn't think an arbor press would have enough oomph to drive a broach. Have you considered making a screw press?

You should tell that to the guys at work that are forced to do it.

oxford
05-19-2013, 06:02 PM
iMisspell. would this work for you. May not be that far of a drive depending where is NY you are. http://allentown.craigslist.org/tls/3765414478.html

John Stevenson
05-19-2013, 06:33 PM
Have you considered making a screw press?

God, you will be there all day doing one keyway.

Broaches do not need much force.

See this table.

http://www.dumont.com/broaches/push-type/american-standard/

lane
05-19-2013, 07:24 PM
Here is one I built years ago before I found a Dake 1 1/2B Used it to press broaches for key ways . !# inches under the ram is not enough . At least 18 inches The front and back plates wer 3/4 thick ,the ram I found in the scrap yard was about 1 1/4 square . Bought a gear to fit the ram from Marten Gear and built all the rest .
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/scan0002_zps9c67f69f.jpg (http://s178.photobucket.com/user/lane5263/media/scan0002_zps9c67f69f.jpg.html)

http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w277/lane5263/scan0001_zps4a75c650.jpg (http://s178.photobucket.com/user/lane5263/media/scan0001_zps4a75c650.jpg.html)

metalmagpie
05-19-2013, 07:26 PM
Here's an old design I clipped years ago:

http://tinyisland.com/images/temp/arborpress.pdf

Some good ideas in there.

seattlepitboss

darryl
05-19-2013, 09:45 PM
At 3 tons or less, I think I could go for a 'build my own'. I'd be looking at racks and pinions to see what kind of capacity you can get. It would not be difficult to get or make a wheel to turn the pinion so you can get fast traverse speeds, then lean on it for the pressure.

I'm a fan of balancing the load, so my preference would be to make it more like a regular two-column press. I'm less of a fan of the C clamp type construction, where the C has to resist 'blowing out' and thus causing an alignment problem. No need to make it floor-standing- it can just as easily be a bench-top thing. The wheel might end up being fairly large in diameter to give you enough leverage to get the pressure, but it would be up fairly high and could perhaps not be in the way of getting around. The wheel could actually be oriented more towards being parallel to the wall behind the bench- the rack and pinion also following that. There's no particular reason why those parts have to remain in the traditional configuration. You could actually have a 3 ft diameter wheel, with the front edge of it at a good place to grab and pull on it, without the footprint of the machine becoming any wider than two feet or so- same for the depth taken up on the benchtop.

I hope I've made this clear enough to envision- I'm trying to think of how I could easily draw it, but I'm not coming up with a way- . Of course there may be a problem using the two column method, and the whole idea would be moot.

I built a press once using two columns, but instead of a hydraulic ram or rack and pinion, I used steel cable wrapped around a tubular drum that could be turned to pull the pressing part downwards. It got quite involved, with 8 parallel strands of 1/8 cable in total carrying the load, but it has worked well ever since. I have not broken a cable or had any cable wrapping, slipping, or tensioning problems. This machine was made for pressing dovetail drawers together, and will accommodate a drawer from 8 inches wide up to 36 inches, so the stroke is about 28 inches. I have no idea of the tonnage being applied.

Elninio
05-19-2013, 11:25 PM
why are 3,4,5 ton arbor presses more expensive than 20, 50,100 ton hydraulic presses?

iMisspell
05-20-2013, 12:58 AM
Thanks for the links and images...
Seams like im in the middle of both criagslist listings, one is alittle over 3hour, the other alittle over 2hour.

Your press looks good 'lane', wish i had some 3/4 plate laying around.

That press in the pdf is pretty clever, nice to have free hand control but also flip it and use the bottle jack - i like that.

Was looking on ebay and found this 3Ton ratchet (http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-TON-RATCHET-TYPE-ARBOR-PRESS-12-13-12-/181044448388?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a27170c84) for $260 shipped to the house... then would just need to made a sub-table.

Not sure... and after darryl's post it sparked an item on my todo list; a "press" for doing segmented wood turns. As of now i use the wood working lathe - the tailstock is the press - it works pretty good and using a second chuck mounted in the tailstock it makes for easy ring alignment while "stacking" the rings, but it sucks because i cant use the lathe to turn anything while the glue is setting. Planned on making a table with two columns, a screw and hand-wheel in the middle to compress and hold each segmented ring.... So with that in mind... im thinking the following might fit my needs better.

- Make a column type, use a piece of heavy walled Square Tubing for the ram (2" OD .25 wall thickness) with two threaded (ID thread) slugs welded in each end of the tube along with a 'rack' welded on the back. The rack will be used as normal for an Arbor Press, the threaded slugs will have a threaded rod running down through them with a hand wheel at the top to have more control and feel while using the press for the woodworking side of things... Some how beable to pin or lock the rack & pinion (at what ever height desirable) then use the top hand wheel to compress the wooden rings... humm.. just thinking our load here :)

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iMisspell
05-21-2013, 04:53 AM
Make a column type, use a piece of heavy walled Square Tubing for the ram (2" OD .25 wall thickness) with two threaded (ID thread) slugs welded in each end of the tube along with a 'rack' welded on the back. The rack will be used as normal for an Arbor Press, the threaded slugs will have a threaded rod running down through them with a hand wheel at the top to have more control and feel while using the press for the woodworking side of things... Some how beable to pin or lock the rack & pinion (at what ever height desirable) then use the top hand wheel to compress the wooden rings... humm.. just thinking our load here :)

Rough visual...
Hand wheel on the right would be for fast Ram movement, then the arm could be used when more leverage is needed, need a way to disengage the "leverage arm" when using the wheel.
http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a570/iMisspell/Projects/Metal/Arbor_Press/Arbor_Press2_zps12eb191d.jpg (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/iMisspell/media/Projects/Metal/Arbor_Press/Arbor_Press2_zps12eb191d.jpg.html)

Top wheel would drive a 3/4 threaded rod for a vice when doing woodworking glue ups.
http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a570/iMisspell/Projects/Metal/Arbor_Press/Arbor_Press4_zpsd7f63b1c.jpg (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/iMisspell/media/Projects/Metal/Arbor_Press/Arbor_Press4_zpsd7f63b1c.jpg.html)


Top view with out "vice hand wheel".
The Cyan color thing is a spur gear which will ride on the purple thing (the rack)
http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a570/iMisspell/Projects/Metal/Arbor_Press/Arbor_Press3_zps8ff0a5dd.jpg (http://s1284.photobucket.com/user/iMisspell/media/Projects/Metal/Arbor_Press/Arbor_Press3_zps8ff0a5dd.jpg.html)

Those are to scale.
Box tubing uprights are 3" with .25 wall thickness, top red cross beams are C-channel (3" x 1.596" x 0.356" thick) with a 1.5" axial for the Ram hand wheel and 3/4 threaded rod for the vertical vice. The ram is 2" box tubing .25 wall thickness and there will be a 1.5 x .75 DOM tube jammed down the middle and button welded along with a threaded coupler at the top. Both hand wheels are 12"dia because i have two laying around here.

On paper this seams like it would fit my broaching needs, there roughly 22" of ram travel, 20" of room from the top of the table to the bottom of the rams housing. 24" in between the uprights and a 12" depth. Dont know about the bottom/base, have not thought about that yet. And need to work out the housing which the ram will ride up and down in.

* With the martial chosen in this post and the design, how well do you think it will work for broaching ?

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Paul Alciatore
05-21-2013, 01:53 PM
From the first two lines of the original post,
"Main use (as far as i can see)
- Broaching (want 13" of ram travel)".

Broaches go in and broaches have to go OUT. One thing I see missing on all of the designs on this page is an OUT. I have a small arbor press and one of the main features is an opening under the ram for things like a broach to exit below the work. I would think that this feature should be a basic feature of a design and should be included from the start so it's effects can be taken into account in the rest of the design.

Otherwise you will need a tall spacer under the work to allow for the broach to exit.

My press has an opening from the front which is handy for positioning work in and out of it. But a hole could also be used. A hole would have less of an effect on the strength of the design.

By the way, where do you get a 13" (or even a 10") long broach? Most that I have seen are in the 5 to 8 inch range. I am not saying that they do not exist, just would like to know where. Or is this the reason for the 13" range: 5" above the work, 5" below the work (with a big spacer), and up to 3" for the work itself? But you would still need only a 5 to 8 inch stroke.

vpt
05-21-2013, 07:08 PM
Yesterday I wasn't paying attention. I was bending some 3/8" round bar in mine, hanging off the handle with near all my weight, and the "catch" slipped the gear and I smashed my elbow into the edge of the welding table with pretty much all my force. HURTS real bad! Even today I can't more my arm a whole lot. (I know, clumsy bastard!) So inspecting the press today I see that the "catch" didn't fully engage the gear tooth which chipped the very very end of it off when all hell let loose. After that incident (A.K.Boomer's?) push button power press looks very tempting!

jkilroy
05-21-2013, 09:29 PM
5 to 8 inches? How small are those? I use a 5/8" square broach all the time and that thing is 18" long! The only arbor presses with that kind of stroke are the floor standing models with adjustable height work rests. I have been planning a broaching press with a long stroke hydraulic cylinder. I'd like at least 24". I don't need a lot of force so 5 to 10 tons should work fine. I would like a high volume electric pump to really move the broach on through. A broach is a cutting tool just like a milling cutter, and I would like to be able to send it through the work with some speed.

iMisspell
05-22-2013, 01:42 AM
... I would think that this feature should be a basic feature of a design and should be included from the start so it's effects can be taken into account in the rest of the design...

...By the way, where do you get a 13" (or even a 10") long broach?...
Cant remember the size off the top of my head, but they use a 'C' size bushing, think 1/4+ and bigger (i think).
The one i used tonight was to cut .312 key and it was around 12-13" long - Use a 3-1/2 Ton Famco ratchet arbor press, the part being broached was around 2" long and there was about 3-4" of clearance between the top of the broad and bottom of the ram.

As for the exit hole, yes there will be one. In the first drawings of the thread i just did not include it - it would have been a typical "notch" cut out in the front , but in the last drawing (which is what im leaning towards), its not included because im not sure what i will be doing. The second design is more amid at gluing segmented wooden rings on top of one an other, kind of like this (http://www.woodspunworkshop.com/segmented/about3.htm). There will be an "exit hole", just not sure how im gonna do it. The hole will let object pass through it like normal but also be able to hold a wood lathe chuck or face plate for segmented glue ups. Maybe a hole and an "indexing plate" like a normal arbor press and then make insets for it when gluing the segmented rings. Not sure... still at the "idea stage".


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darryl
05-22-2013, 02:05 AM
Has occurred to me that this is a high force operation, even at a measly 3 tons, so it is where hydraulics really shine. Having it power operated is akin to having a motor on your lathe, instead of a treadle- by the time it's all said and done, is it really of any value to set it up as a manually operated thing?

Also had another idea though- use a long stroke hydraulic cylinder, but pump it with a hand operated device. That way you retain feel, but are able to apply enough force with a mechanism that is easily able to handle it. You can still use a fairly large handwheel, which you could spin for a fast traverse, but then crank when the pressure is required. You get to place the handwheel wherever it makes sense since it could be coupled by hoses anyway. Just need to figure out what pump would be suitable. You would not want something that has bypass 'leakage' at slow speeds, or in other words a minimum operating rpm. It should have a positive displacement even at a crawl.

Mtw fdu
05-22-2013, 03:35 AM
Hang on guys, maybe I may be able to help. I am registered with another machining forum and the same idea has been brought up. Here is a link to the page. It has been built with heavier material and the plans are easy to follow as well.

http://www.projectsinmetal.com/forum/welding-projects/homemade-arbor-press/

Mtw fdu.

Jim2
05-22-2013, 08:21 PM
I bought a homemade arbor press on an auction a few years back. It sounds like it might be just what you're looking for, though I really don't know how many tons it can squeeze.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/jasch/Arbor%20Press/Arbor-002_zpsd9e82e22.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jasch/media/Arbor%20Press/Arbor-002_zpsd9e82e22.jpg.html)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/jasch/Arbor%20Press/Arbor-001_zps9f422e61.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jasch/media/Arbor%20Press/Arbor-001_zps9f422e61.jpg.html)


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/jasch/Arbor%20Press/Arbor-005_zpseb042780.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jasch/media/Arbor%20Press/Arbor-005_zpseb042780.jpg.html)



As you can see it sits right on the floor. The back is an H-beam, and the guy seems to have made his own ratcheting device. It came with a couple of extra pieces. One has a broken spline, the other is new never used:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v280/jasch/Arbor%20Press/Arbor-008_zps994fd94f.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jasch/media/Arbor%20Press/Arbor-008_zps994fd94f.jpg.html)

Jim

iMisspell
05-23-2013, 01:13 AM
darryl, ive broached a number of 1/4 keys in different martial's and its alittle bit of work, but hell... my mortise machine will do it in 1.5" of aluminum (not that i keen on using the wrong machine for the job :) )... if i do end up with something hydraulic, it will probably be along the lines of the bottle jack which has been posted in this thread... i like that idea, very flexible.

Thanks for the link, Mtw fdu - some one posted a link to a copy of the plans earlier in the thread. The bottle jack is pretty clever.

Jim2, i like that. The adjustable table was a great idea if you dont need alot of presser (which i dont). Gonna keep that in mind, thanks for posting the pictures. The cost of matrial that size might be alittle pricey, gonna have to keep my eyes open for stuff like that laying around.

Jim2
05-23-2013, 09:15 AM
re: the adjustable table

Yeah, it's nice, but it is a weak spot I suppose. The two 1/2", mild steel rods that are used to pin it in place are bent. No doubt that indicates that it could use a little more strength in that area.

I end up using it most often to break the bead on motorcycle tires at tire-change time. Plenty of leverage for that and very handy! Best $65 I ever spent!

Jim

Doozer
05-23-2013, 02:29 PM
Design a way to lock the gear rack (maybe with a short fixed section of rack to mesh with the moving rack) so you can use only the screw to apply tons of pressure, more than you would be able to do by just using the arbor handle alone.

--Doozer

iMisspell
05-25-2013, 11:33 PM
... The two 1/2", mild steel rods that are used to pin it in place are bent...Dont know if it will help, or if you care that much... maybe four grade 8 bolts if you always use it at the same height.



Design a way to lock the gear rack (maybe with a short fixed section of rack to mesh with the moving rack) so you can use only the screw to apply tons of pressure, more than you would be able to do by just using the arbor handle alone.Humm... i would like a way to lock it for when using it as a vice... Thats seams like it would work... Maybe something on the back side housing, have a piece of rack "trapped" in the housing so it can not move up or down and use a spring or screw to push it in and out to 'lock/mesh' it on the rams rack.
Thanks for the idea... will work it into the drawing some time.

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