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Elninio
05-27-2013, 11:52 PM
Windshield wiper fluid provides nice lubricity - mirror finishes on soft material (plastics, aluminium) for example. I want to improve the rust corrosion of my cutting fluid with some additive, what can I add? The windshield fluid isn't that bad, but i've noticed that in some portions that were left overnight, a small portion has separated and started producing rust. For example, my puddle will shrink to 10% of its size, and that fraction is the rust causing fraction. My lathe bed has never had any problem with it, and I don't lubricate it with oil very often. Maybe once every three months. If there was some additive to hold WD40 to this windshield fluid, that would be excellent. Some people suggest mixing oil with soap and water, but I don't want the components to separate easily, because that would require a mixer of some sort before use.

Jaakko Fagerlund
05-28-2013, 03:53 AM
Just out of curiosity, what is the problem with commercial coolants and/or cutting fluids?

DATo
05-28-2013, 05:14 AM
For a cheap, general purpose machining fluid I usually use a mix of 3/4 gal. kerosene to 1 qt. used motor oil (for added lubrication). This combination has a tendency to smell (kerosene) but I have a good ventilation system in my shop so in my case it isn't a problem.

WD-40 makes a nice cutting oil for aluminum and plastic.

For stainless steel there is a commercial product called Anchor Lube which is a non-organic compound that comes as a paste (consistency of toothpaste) and can be diluted with water to your requirements. I usually cut it pretty heavily with water to help with the cooling. This stuff works great but it is a bit messy because it has a wax-like consistency which adheres to the machine and parts. It dissolves very easily with WD 40 however and in my opinion the trade off for its value as a cutting lubricant is well worth a little extra clean up time.

Doozer
05-28-2013, 07:17 AM
My lathe bed .... I don't lubricate it with oil very often. Maybe once every three months.

Most machinists oil the lathe bed every time before they use it, and clean it every time after they are done.
How happy is your lathe?

--Doozer

Jon Heron
05-28-2013, 07:27 AM
Windshield washer fluid is a mixture of methanol (a neurotoxin) and water. The smaller puddle that you see in the morning is just water after the methanol evaporates out, I dont know of any oil that will mix with water...
Cheers,
Jon

boslab
05-28-2013, 08:53 AM
She'll dromus oil mixes with water, used in the steel industry in hydraulic systems at 95% water bal dromus, does not cause rust in the system, water hydraulic valves are quite pricy.
How it would fare as I cutting oil If mixed with meths or methanol i know not
Better yet use it as it is!
Mark

Rich Carlstedt
05-28-2013, 01:33 PM
+ 1 for Anchor Lube

Would not be without it for Stainless work, or tapping any materials

Rich

michigan doug
05-28-2013, 03:06 PM
By the way, inhaling methanol fumes (from washer fluid) is bad for your neurology.

The wiki entry gets it pretty much right.

Methanol has a high toxicity in humans. If as little as 10 mL of pure methanol is ingested, for example, it can break down into formic acid, which can cause permanent blindness by destruction of the optic nerve, and 30 mL is potentially fatal,[17] although the median lethal dose is typically 100 mL (4 fl oz) (i.e. 1–2 mL/kg body weight of pure methanol[18]). Reference dose for methanol is 0,5 mg/kg/day.[19] Toxic effects take hours to start, and effective antidotes can often prevent permanent damage.[17]

Methanol is toxic by two mechanisms. First, methanol (whether it enters the body by ingestion, inhalation, or absorption through the skin) can be fatal due to its CNS depressant properties in the same manner as ethanol poisoning. Second, in a process of toxication, it is metabolized to formic acid (which is present as the formate ion) via formaldehyde in a process initiated by the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase in the liver.[21]


Have fun, play safe.


Yes, I am a doctor by the way...

doug

Elninio
05-28-2013, 03:17 PM
Just out of curiosity, what is the problem with commercial coolants and/or cutting fluids?
I have to drive far to buy it and literally 30$ here, 30$ there, means i will never get a bandsaw and surface grinder. Plus, I'm moving to europe in 4 months, I don't need it to last 2 years like advertised!

Elninio
05-28-2013, 03:18 PM
Most machinists oil the lathe bed every time before they use it, and clean it every time after they are done.
How happy is your lathe?

--Doozer

No rust, still mirror finish after more than 5 years usage (I am not the first owner). It has withstood me doing drywall in the garage too.

Jaakko Fagerlund
05-28-2013, 03:46 PM
Methanol has been banned from those fluids as longas I can remember for obvious reasons. Now they use ethyl alcohol or similar that won't get you blind.

outback
05-28-2013, 03:51 PM
Most machinists oil the lathe bed every time before they use it, and clean it every time after they are done.
How happy is your lathe?

--Doozer

I agree with you 100%. All of my machines are pampered and recieve tender loving care. I have almost no trouble with them and my 14 year old JET machines are still like new. Wonder if there is a connection to all this?

Over the years I have worked with some real slobs in machine shops. Countless times I have seen guys running machines with no visible oil in the gear case sight glass. I would always stop and have a talk with the operator running the machine. Caught the plant manager doing it once and had a talk with him as well. Could explain why I never made far up the food chain.

I use mostly commercial coolant and cutting fluids. Almost nothing tops WD40 for machining aluminum except for
Tap Magic for aluminum. Around here $14/gal for WD40.

If money is a concern pipe threading oil is available at any hardware store and works great. Smokes, smelly and messy but while you clean up the mess you can think about all the money you saved.
Jim

Cobra
05-28-2013, 04:07 PM
Methanol is one of those toxins that will enter your system by breathing the vapor from the coolant, getting it on your hands and having it absorb through your skin. I find it hard to fathom than there is no where you can by cooland in a city the size of Toronto.
Look after your health or you won't need any more toys

boslab
05-28-2013, 08:20 PM
I use green swarfega hand cleaner on Ali, it's a mineral oil based cleaner, great for tapping
Mark

Elninio
05-28-2013, 11:09 PM
Methanol has been banned from those fluids as longas I can remember for obvious reasons. Now they use ethyl alcohol or similar that won't get you blind.

you are correct - was gonna go check and post back this morning, but i ended up staying in the shop all day

darryl
05-28-2013, 11:45 PM
Another vote for AnchorLube for tapping and hard to machine materials, as well as deep drilling. I did an experiment recently to see if I could use a syringe as a dispenser for it. I got the stainless steel tips for it and sanded the sharpness off them. The syringe I chose is a 60 ml- in hindsight it should have been smaller for better handling. I filled it about halfway, thinking that it would be easy enough to handle with one hand, but it's awkward. A 30 ml size might be about right.

It's nice to be able to poke the tip into a partially drilled hole and squirt the lube into the bottom, where it's actually needed. Works great for that. For tapping, I have a shallow container with a lid that just rests on it. Pop the lid and dip the tap- works great.

I found that I left the lid off several days ago, and the AnchorLube has dried up a bit. I'll have to try moistening and remixing it- thanks for that tip DATo.

atty
05-28-2013, 11:52 PM
I'm a big Anchorlube fan as well, but I did learn a hard lesson with that stuff when cutting super fine threads. Since it is a paste type lubricant, it doesn't have the flow to remove chips like an oil would and has a tendency to hold them together in the paste. When I was cranking the die near the finishing point, I wondered why it was getting harder and harder. When I backed off to see what was happening, I had no threads. The chips molded together with the Anchorlube paste and made a nice abrasive, but no threads. A quick switch back to oil solved the problem. Another lesson for the archives.

flylo
05-29-2013, 01:00 AM
I have 60 gallons on pure mineral oil I got for smoke oil for planes, a 5 gal pail & a drum. Will this be good on the bandsaw & drilling & tapping?

Jon Heron
05-29-2013, 08:07 AM
Quote Originally Posted by Jaakko Fagerlund View Post
Methanol has been banned from those fluids as longas I can remember for obvious reasons. Now they use ethyl alcohol or similar that won't get you blind.

you are correct - was gonna go check and post back this morning, but i ended up staying in the shop all day
I hope your not thinking that methanol is banned from washer fluid? Cause it aint, methanol and water is whats used for washer fluid here in Canada, and that's a fact.
The small amount you would be using for cutting fluid on your lathe wont hurt just make sure you have plenty of air movement and be aware of the risk. Methanol has also been shown to have a cumulative effect with some people, I know of a couple bio brewers who quit because of becoming sensitive to the methanol...
I deal with huge quantity's of methanol on a weekly/biweekly basis while brewing biodiesel, the key is to drink a couple beers while brewing! :D
Ethanol is the antidote for methanol poisoning, the ethanol blocks the livers nasty process with methanol. This is exactly why all responsible biodiesel brewers must have a little antidote on hand... :)
Here is everything you ever wanted to know about methanol but were afraid to ask! http://www.methanex.com/environment/technical.html
Cheers,
Jon

Jon Heron
05-29-2013, 08:11 AM
On another note, I have recently heard that glycerine used to be used a threading/cutting lube, if anybody wants to try glycerine I have all anybody could ever use, it will still have some methanol in it, but very little.
If anybody is in the Fergus/Elora area and wants any send me a message and I will hook you up with all you want, free of charge. It makes a great soap and degreaser too!
Cheers,
Jon

Doozer
05-29-2013, 09:22 AM
I have this theory that Anchor lube is a green bar of Lava soap melted down in some water.
That being said, I do like it for stainless.

--Doozer

Euph0ny
05-29-2013, 10:30 AM
Ballistol (taken together with the measures referred to in paragraph 11, amount to more than 5% in total.) is another water-soluble (miscible?) oil. It makes a milky liquid when mixed with water, which is good for cleaning fouling from black-powder firearms, among other things. It's non-toxic, but does smell rather of cheesy feet, so be warned!

Elninio
05-31-2013, 12:06 AM
I have this theory that Anchor lube is a green bar of Lava soap melted down in some water.
That being said, I do like it for stainless.

--Doozer

Aha - I found some anchor lube at Fastenal which is just by my house. I hope they have a wide selection of cutting fluids, that would really solve my problems! They say:

Uses: Anchorlube is the solution for difficult metalworking operations including along side welds on carbon steel. Its many uses include: drilling; tapping; sawing; spot facing; counter-boring; milling; fly-cutting; seat forming; engraving; broaching; drawing; piercing; punching; hole extruding. Notes: Anchorlube G-771 is top performing multi-purpose lubricant offering a new level of tool-life along with the cleanliness of a water/soap based compound. Anchorlube is a semi-paste and performs well on all metals, especially stainless steel, high-carbon, high-chrome, case iron monel, and other exotic metals that shorten tool life. It can also be used on non-ferrous metals such as brass and aluminum. Anchorlube is a totally environmentally-safe lubricant that contains no petroleum, chlorine, nitrates, chromates or sulfur. As a water-based all natural product, it maintains a clean work area with no oily surfaces. Anchorlube is USDA P-1 approved for shops operating under the federal meat and poultry products inspection program.
Manufactured by a Woman-Owned Business.

Hopefully, the people who designed this stuff were men!

Do you know how many parts of G771 anchor lube goes for 1 gallon of water or oil?

darryl
05-31-2013, 12:55 AM
Hmm- lot of saying what AnchorLube isn't made from, but nothing about what it is made from. Probably a mixture of dried and ground green olives, dried and ground banana skin, baby powder, and chalk.

DATo
05-31-2013, 04:26 AM
Aha - I found some anchor lube at Fastenal which is just by my house. I hope they have a wide selection of cutting fluids, that would really solve my problems! They say:

Manufactured by a Woman-Owned Business.

Hopefully, the people who designed this stuff were men!

Do you know how many parts of G771 anchor lube goes for 1 gallon of water or oil?


I am currently using Anchor Lube on a huge (25" dia) doughnut shaped part I am cutting on the mill mounted on a motorized turntable. I have two containers of Anchor Lube: One is straight Anchor Lube (the paste), the other is a metal container that has Anchor Lube cut with water to the consistency of milk. I am using a 2" paint brush to apply the paste (sparingly) and then follow up with thin applications of the thinned-down stuff for cooling. Plain water is your best coolant for stainless steel anyway, the Anchor Lube adds the lubrication. You can mix this stuff to any consistency that works for you. IT WILL TARNISH (surface rust) YOUR MACHINE BECAUSE IT IS WATER BASED but a very light buffing with Scotchbrite and oil will get rid of the surface tarnish easily. It is, as mentioned in my first post, sticky with a wax-like consistency when dry. It can be a bit*h to remove with water after it dries even though it is water based but dissolves immediately with WD 40 which, by the way, also works great for dissolving the glue on old pexiglass which bonds the paper to the surface of the plastic. You might still have to scrape the paper off but the WD 40 give you a fighting chance of success with the most minimal effort.

EDIT: Another, almost exactly the same, product is Westlube. Check prices for best deal. In my opinion they are identical in every way.

R W
05-31-2013, 06:41 AM
For a cheap, general purpose machining fluid I usually use a mix of 3/4 gal. kerosene to 1 qt. used motor oil (for added lubrication).
A good practical reply to the topic, will give this mixture a go, it works out at 3 to 1.

outback
05-31-2013, 08:04 AM
. I did an experiment recently to see if I could use a syringe as a dispenser for it. I got the stainless steel tips for it and sanded the sharpness off them. The syringe I chose is a 60 ml- in hindsight it should have been smaller for better handling.

It's nice to be able to poke the tip into a partially drilled hole and squirt the lube into the bottom, where it's actually needed. Works great for that. For tapping, I have a shallow container with a lid that just rests on it. Pop the lid and dip the tap- works great.
.

I have wanted to post this for a long time. Shows my fluid applicator set. These are great when just a drop or two of cutting fluid is required. MSC Industrial has these and are called applicators.

Correction: They are called dispensing bottles MSC #65361644 $3.66 each. They have all different kinds. Big Book Page page #:3251

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/jglass/fluidapplicators.jpg

Got tired of keeping track of the different applicators so I came up with this storage rack. Notice the hinge so the storage rack swings back out of the way. These applicators save money because they dispence only the amount of fluid required.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/jglass/fluidapplicatorrack.jpg

Jim

Jon Heron
05-31-2013, 08:20 AM
Anchorlube is a totally environmentally-safe lubricant that contains no petroleum, chlorine, nitrates, chromates or sulfur. As a water-based all natural product, it maintains a clean work area with no oily surfaces
Sure sounds like glycerine to me, I will have to try some out next time I machine or tap something...
Cheers,
Jon

madokie
06-01-2013, 01:53 AM
i have a bunch of applicator bottles symilar to what outback has.. mine were FREE , used sailene bottles from the neighbor who uses contacts, just pop off the top rinse out and refill with your favorite fluid and pop the top back on.. you may need to drill opening larger or not.the brand i have has caps that you can snap back on to keep contaminants out of, and some brands have screw on caps, i prefer snapon .ATF (auto trans fluid) is 90% mineral oil since i overhaul my own auto-trans i have large amount of used ATF so i run it through a coffee filter and it works great for most everything.

lazlo
06-01-2013, 10:06 AM
Ballistol is another water-soluble (miscible?) oil. It makes a milky liquid when mixed with water

Ballistol is just mineral oil with a small amount of oleic acid as an emulsifier.

Like way oil, real cutting fluid is cheaper than windshield washer fluid at Enco. Free shipping, no tax. :)