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View Full Version : OT: krupp steel, german quality



Elninio
05-30-2013, 02:14 AM
Who's the guy in this pic?
http://i.imgur.com/KsfdYV0.jpg

Euph0ny
05-30-2013, 03:45 AM
Who's the guy in this pic?


That would be Mikhail Timofeyevich Kalashnikov, holder of the Order of Lenin, and inventor of Russia's most famous export - Vodka!

http://img27.xooimage.com/files/0/c/e/kmo_088197_42415_1m-1205872.jpg

Sun God
05-30-2013, 05:16 AM
Doesn't look like Kalashnikov. Note the imperfection above the left eye.

Barrington
05-30-2013, 10:15 AM
Who's the guy in this pic?I like a quiz, so I searched Google for the image and found it on a rather squalid messageboard - "4chon".

A comment there led to the original video on YouTube where he is acting as a guide at the Panzer Museum.

He is a German ex-soldier named Thiel.

Where is this leading ? Do I win some sort of prize ??

Cheers

.

Dr Stan
05-30-2013, 11:03 AM
Where is this leading ? Do I win some sort of prize ??

Cheers

.

Sure. Just pour yourself a tall glass of vodka. :)

lazlo
05-30-2013, 12:04 PM
"krupp steel, german quality" didn't work out so well at the Battle of Kursk :)

DR
05-30-2013, 02:51 PM
What's the point here? Krupp Steel may be good, but in this country unless you buy a boat load chances are you can't get it.

Same with Australian steel. I would love to get the 12L14 called Martin Bright from Australia we had a few years ago, but they no longer export to the USA.

Steel quality available in small quantities in this country is limited to crap from Nucor mills.

lazlo
05-30-2013, 03:29 PM
What's the point here? Krupp Steel may be good, but in this country unless you buy a boat load chances are you can't get it.

Interestingly W2 tool steel, which has been out of production for decades but is highly prized by bladesmiths, is sourced in the 'States by Aldo Bruno as a specialty product. From German steel foundries. In other words, Aldo contracts a custom melt, and has several tons shipped overseas. Aldo has never indicated the foundry, but Krupp is a good bet :)

As far as quality, Crucible in the US, Hitachi in Japan, Uddeholm in Sweden, and Boehler in Austria all make superb boutique (i.e., powder metallurgy) steel.

John Stevenson
05-30-2013, 04:32 PM
Who's the guy in this pic?
http://i.imgur.com/KsfdYV0.jpg




He's the next door neighbour of the first house in Peckham, flattened by a V1

Far better than an ASBO for owning barking dogs.

Elninio
05-30-2013, 11:59 PM
What's the point here? Krupp Steel may be good, but in this country unless you buy a boat load chances are you can't get it.

Same with Australian steel. I would love to get the 12L14 called Martin Bright from Australia we had a few years ago, but they no longer export to the USA.

Steel quality available in small quantities in this country is limited to crap from Nucor mills.

which country is that?

fjk
05-31-2013, 08:23 AM
"krupp steel, german quality" didn't work out so well at the Battle of Kursk :)

"Quantity has a quality all its own"

Rustybolt
05-31-2013, 08:56 AM
Originally Posted by lazlo
"krupp steel, german quality" didn't work out so well at the Battle of Kursk


There was nothing wrong with the quality of the German product. It was the quantity that suffered.
That and using diesel engine originally designed to be used on an airplane to power heavier and heavier tanks.

wierdscience
05-31-2013, 09:12 AM
What's the point here? Krupp Steel may be good, but in this country unless you buy a boat load chances are you can't get it.

Same with Australian steel. I would love to get the 12L14 called Martin Bright from Australia we had a few years ago, but they no longer export to the USA.

Steel quality available in small quantities in this country is limited to crap from Nucor mills.

Online Metals is a subsidiary of Tyssen-Krupp Materials NA,you would think they were supplying their supply chain with Krupp product if possible-

http://www.onlinemetals.com/tkmnabuy.cfm

Although I have never been a fan of German steel.

RandyZ
05-31-2013, 09:23 AM
[QUOTE
That and using diesel engine originally designed to be used on an airplane to power heavier and heavier tanks.[/QUOTE]

Almost all German tanks used gasoline powered Maybach engines. Problem was the transmission couldn't take the extra HP and the increased weight of the tanks.

lazlo
05-31-2013, 10:56 AM
Originally Posted by lazlo
"krupp steel, german quality" didn't work out so well at the Battle of Kursk

There was nothing wrong with the quality of the German product. It was the quantity that suffered.

Both sides had 3,000 tanks at the main tank battle at the Kursk Bulge. In fact, it was the official debut of the Panther, which was copied from the T-34, under Guderian's orders. There were many multiple Panther kills by T-34's, evidenced by the "Hero of the Soviet Union" medals given out to tank crews. "Krupp steel, German quality" wasn't substantially better than Soviet steel :)

The Panther V In Combat - Guderian's Problem Child (http://www.amazon.com/The-Panther-Combat-Guderians-ebook/dp/B005V0T0A0)

Rustybolt
05-31-2013, 12:08 PM
Randy. Which ones used the Jumo?

laz. The germans suffered from the same thing the Brits did with their tanks. There was a lot of fitting to be done even after they were delivered. And they were fiddley even then. The Sherman was under gunned and under armored, but when they were delivered all you did was add gas, ammunition and a crew and off you went to war. Same thing with the T34. Off the assembly line and into combat.

wierdscience
05-31-2013, 02:39 PM
Randy. Which ones used the Jumo?

laz. The germans suffered from the same thing the Brits did with their tanks. There was a lot of fitting to be done even after they were delivered. And they were fiddley even then. The Sherman was under gunned and under armored, but when they were delivered all you did was add gas, ammunition and a crew and off you went to war. Same thing with the T34. Off the assembly line and into combat.

Also the German tanks were needlessly complex.The Panther suspension system and road wheel arms are one example.They used single staggered road wheels mounted on torsion bar sprung trailing arms.It was said to take two days to change an inside road wheel and trailing arm on a Panther compared to two hours on a T-34.

RandyZ
05-31-2013, 07:26 PM
Randy. Which ones used the Jumo?

There were not many diesel tanks made. Almost all of the fuel oil produced, was allocated to the submarines, which didn't have any alternative to diesels use. There was not enough left for the Army.

jkilroy
05-31-2013, 08:00 PM
The Germans problem with the Russian was attacking them in the first place.

DR
05-31-2013, 08:52 PM
Speaking about tanks....many moons ago after graduating from engineering school one of my many jobs in the first couple of years was with Paccar in their military projects division. They designed and built tanks and self propelled guns for Viet Nam.

I was hired as an instrumentation engineer (that never happened).

My first assignment was to design a screen to fit into the engine air intake of one of their tanks. Engine failures were caused when rocks got sucked into the ground level intake. The air intake to the 265 Chev V8 (with Powerglide tranny) had no air filter just an open pipe. Unbelievable, huh? So much so that I thought this was the joke they played on new hires. Not wanting to spoil the joke I played along for almost two weeks sketching various screen designs. Then the big boss came around and asked how I was doing on the project.

Besides tanks they built various self propelled guns. One I remember had a small dozer blade on the back to carve a spot on a hillside to back into with the blade absorbing the guns recoil. Those had a useful life of typically 50-100 rounds before they were shipped back to the states for rebuild, lots of problems with welds.

Don't ask me the name of any of the tanks and guns, I wasn't there long enough to get familiar with them, I quit after three weeks.

My point here is the incredibly poor quality design and build of this equipment. I have to believe there was no accountability to the government.

jkilroy
05-31-2013, 11:12 PM
Why build a quality product when you can build a piece of junk and sell five times as many right? The American way!

lazlo
05-31-2013, 11:27 PM
There was a lot of fitting to be done even after they were delivered. And they were fiddley even then.

In Tank Overhaul, the low-budget British team (with whom I was quite enamored!) welded the good front half of a Sherman onto the good back half of another. They build a large gantry to hold the two halves, and MIG welded the two halves together with stainless wire -- very impressive! They said you could never have done that with German tanks, which (as you say) were hand fitted, and each was essentially unique.

I was also surprised (amazed, actually) that the bevel drive gears on the Sherman were considerably higher quality/precision than the Panther they were rebuilding at the same time. The comment from the British team was that the drive train was the best technology from Detroit. Shame that we didn't apply similar technology to up-armor and up-gun the Sherman like the Germans and Russians did in 1943-44...