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View Full Version : Tramming aid for my Bridgeport.



Shade
06-04-2013, 11:12 AM
Last weekends project, a few months ago I purchased a shaper, since my shop is best described
as 10 pounds of **** in a 5 pound bag, thing needed to get moved to make room for my third
machine tool. The mill got turned on a 45 something that I should have done from day one, but
that was over a decade ago and I had not accumulated much of what I have now... who knew...
Moving the BP required me to move the head over to the side for the engine hoist to be able to
lift it. So now it needs to be trammed in again. Anyway, I had seen people make a nice tram-
ming tool from used brake discs and so I did the same. New ones from eztram are $2-300 more
than I want to spend.

Donor disc.
http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106019&d=1369685601

Parting off hub.
http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106010&d=1369685370
http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106011&d=1369685370
http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106012&d=1369685370

Shade
06-04-2013, 11:13 AM
Roughing and finishing first side.
http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106013&d=1369685370

Trueing up the faceplate.
http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=105982&d=1369629280

Turning second side.
http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106015&d=1369685601

Finished.
http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106018&d=1369685601

Less than 0.0002 run out per side.
More accurate than my old BP

rode2rouen
06-04-2013, 11:29 AM
I found that a large bearing cup (10.250" OD in this case) requires much less preparation.
Ignore the mill table, it was already fixt up when I got the mill.

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww216/bjorn_toulouse/tram1.jpg


Rex

Shade
06-04-2013, 11:39 AM
I found that a large bearing cup (11.750" OD in this case) requires much less preparation.


Sweet, like 12 inch bearing races are just laying around everywhere... :rolleyes:

rode2rouen
06-04-2013, 11:51 AM
NOS on Ebay, 6 or 7 years ago...........IIRC, around $16.00 with shipping.


Rex

Rosco-P
06-04-2013, 11:55 AM
Sweet, like 12 inch bearing races are just laying around everywhere... :rolleyes:

If you look in the right places, yes. Found a NOS bearing on Fleabay approx 8" in diameter, no bids but mine. Got it for less than $8. Use it to tram alongside the vice.

Maybe Rode2Rouen will tell us where he got his, what application it was meant for.

He types faster than me.

Forrest Addy
06-04-2013, 11:59 AM
My tramming aid is a 1-2-3 block I butchrerd up with belt sanded extra large champhers (actually 20 degree ramps) on one end for the indicator contact to ride up on. I can move it anywhere around the table including around the mounted vise. Small, light, portable.

Not to dis re-purposed brake disks and bearing races. They work good and form a continuous surface.

BTW, anyone ever thought to scrape a circular flat from a de-hubbed brake disk? Like in Shade's OP? Scrape both sides parallel? Use it for tramming? As a parallel to raise work with interfering features underneath? Scraping stuff with a raised pivot like under a compound on a larger lathe?

dave5605
06-04-2013, 12:31 PM
I poked around on eBay and got a new rotor for about 10$ including free shipping. Was from a place selling rotors but I just took their generic example from some off the wall vehicle and ordered it. I'm sure it was, by far, the cheapest rotor they had and was just used to get the buyers attention.

It was made offshore too.

dian
06-04-2013, 12:56 PM
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/57459-tramming-the-mill-with-a-brake-rotor?highlight=scraping+rotor

post #6

while a 280 mm rotor (350 mm for racing rotor) might be a good idea to tram in the area under a vise, for a real mill you have to use something like this, i believe, to get it right:

http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae218/romandian/Bild023_zpsa6a5a49e.jpg (http://s973.photobucket.com/user/romandian/media/Bild023_zpsa6a5a49e.jpg.html)

Bob Fisher
06-04-2013, 07:01 PM
I bought the EZ Tram from Enco a while back, don't need no stinkin' bearing . You can tram in both directions in a minute or two. Just set it on a surface plate, zero the indicators, and adjust the head. Done! Bob.

Doozer
06-04-2013, 10:38 PM
Shade-
What kind of lathe is that.
It looks pretty cool.
--Doozer

rode2rouen
06-05-2013, 12:40 AM
Maybe Rode2Rouen will tell us where he got his, what application it was meant for.



I just went out to the garage and checked my bearing race..........Bower #JM738210J44B
No clue what its intended use is/was, but it sure gets the job done for trammin'!

NOTE: I measured the OD and it's 10.25".


Rex

Shade
06-05-2013, 02:41 AM
Shade-
What kind of lathe is that.
It looks pretty cool.
--Doozer

Thanks, Its a Bridgeport... Romi Tormax 13-5 1989
5 HP 230V 3 phase (I run it off a PRC)
13 inch swing, you can squeeze 13.5 in over the bed
60 in bed, 48 inch of travel on the carriage
Taper turning attachement
12 speeds 50-2500 rpm
More thread sizes than I will every turn

Solid low hour machine.

http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106466&d=1370414080

http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106467&d=1370414080

http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106468&d=1370414080

BigBoy1
06-05-2013, 06:42 AM
Turning second side.
http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106015&d=1369685601


What method did you use to secure the work to the faceplate? Bolts from the back? Thanks.

Doozer
06-05-2013, 07:11 AM
Did you ever suspect Romi is related to Nardini?
Both made in Brazil and damn if they don't look very similar.
I once has a Nardini at work and it was a super great lathe.
I think if I found a Nardini or a Romi that I would buy it for myself.
? Does your Romi have the power feed kick-out feature for the carriage?

--Doozer

JoeLee
06-05-2013, 08:30 AM
A few years ago I was going to grind ring for this purpose. I have some 12" dia. well case pipe with a 1/2" wall, it would work just fine. I like the rotor idea. New rotors can be bought cheap today at any auto parts store. But I have to wonder how stable is it after it's been turned or ground. Will it change over time??????? Rotors are crude business. Perhaps the ones that are webbed in the center would be more staable than the single surface ones. Thoughts???????

JL....................

Shade
06-05-2013, 10:48 AM
What method did you use to secure the work to the faceplate? Bolts from the back? Thanks.
Sorry I meant to include this picture, missed it though.
http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106014&d=1369685370


Did you ever suspect Romi is related to Nardini?
Both made in Brazil and damn if they don't look very similar.
I once has a Nardini at work and it was a super great lathe.
I think if I found a Nardini or a Romi that I would buy it for myself.
? Does your Romi have the power feed kick-out feature for the carriage?

--Doozer
I really do not know if they are related, but I would not be surprised
Yes it does have the kick out feature it is nice.


A few years ago I was going to grind ring for this purpose. I have some 12" dia. well case pipe with a 1/2" wall, it would work just fine. I like the rotor idea. New rotors can be bought cheap today at any auto parts store. But I have to wonder how stable is it after it's been turned or ground. Will it change over time??????? Rotors are crude business. Perhaps the ones that are webbed in the center would be more staable than the single surface ones. Thoughts???????

JL....................
I do not think that stability is an issue, if it is flat when you are
done machining it, it should stay that way unless it gets heated.

1-800miner
06-05-2013, 11:03 AM
I was at an electric motor rebuild shop and asked what they did with old bearing races.
He took me out back and pointed at a dumpster full of them and said "take them all if you want"
I got a fourteen inch outer race just for asking.
Look for a shop that does big industrial motors.

Paul Alciatore
06-05-2013, 11:05 AM
With his banged up table, I think you would go nuts trying to tram with ONLY the indicator or even with a dual indicator rig. He needs something that sits on the tops of the dings, hopefully the original table surface.


I bought the EZ Tram from Enco a while back, don't need no stinkin' bearing . You can tram in both directions in a minute or two. Just set it on a surface plate, zero the indicators, and adjust the head. Done! Bob.

rode2rouen
06-05-2013, 12:49 PM
Please, cast no aspersions on my $200.00 Index 645. It has been cheerfully munching various metals, in my shop, for nearly 20 years. It may be ugly, but it sure can throw chips! :p

http://i721.photobucket.com/albums/ww216/bjorn_toulouse/index13.jpg


Rex

dp
06-05-2013, 01:08 PM
I've been using a brake rotor for a number of years and it works fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfioLDhBNBQ

Questions come up - the rotor parallelism is the most accurate part of the system including the entire mill. It is not an issue. The coax indicator works perfectly and is easy to read/use. Yes, I can use a DTI directly on the table but I don't want to. The rotor gives me a larger area to sweep than my little table. The rotor is shown upside down from how I normally use it, but I was also showing how to center a bore under the quill. All the faces of the rotor are very parallel and it really doesn't matter which side is down. Really. Rotors are machined to very tight tolerances to prevent pulsing/vibration while braking. Rotors are dirt cheap owing to the economies of scale. This is a front rotor from a VW.

Some people don't like to have perfect tram because they don't like flycutter/mill exit swirls on the work. I like them and expect to see them. It means the flycutter is not creating a cove. This is the cross-hatch pattern I want to see:

http://metalworkingathome.com/images/BoringBarHolder.jpg

Shade
06-05-2013, 02:18 PM
Please, cast no aspersions on my $200.00 Index 645. It has been cheerfully munching various metals, in my shop, for nearly 20 years. It may be ugly, but it sure can throw chips! :p

Rex
I have no issue with the mill, but your shop is far too clean... :p


... I like them and expect to see them. It means the flycutter is not creating a cove. This is the cross-hatch pattern I want to see:
Amen!

GNM109
06-05-2013, 03:29 PM
I use a new Dodge front brake disc to tram my mill. I have a .0005 indicator that is mounted on a holder that mounts into a collet. It does just fine for tramming the head.

I also tram the vise by adjusting the holder and indicator into a different positon. It works for me.