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View Full Version : should i reweld my 4x6 bandsaw blade?



Elninio
06-04-2013, 09:28 PM
It's the cheapo blade that comes with the saw, I must have cut the equivalent of 20 2x2" square pieces, through the course which it broke a tooth or two, and then eventually snapped. It will probably just snap again, quickly, is that correct?

macona
06-04-2013, 09:33 PM
The blades that come with it barely cut better than a piece of package strapping. Get a good lenox diemaster or other name brand blade and dont look back.

darryl
06-04-2013, 09:43 PM
Ha ha. Yeah, just weld up a piece of strapping and put it on. Try not to get it on backwards :)

There are some who say that there's nothing wrong with carbon steel blades, but I probably couldn't get a day out of one in my hobby shop. The original blade should be tossed out right away, as not only is it garbage, it will lead you astray as you're trying to align the saw. Agreed with macona- lennox diemaster II blades are all I buy now. In the long run they are much cheaper than the inferior blades. I'm sure there are some other blades that are good- I had a Morse and it was ok, I had another- can't recall the name now- it was ok also. I think the diemaster is a little better-.

Dr Stan
06-04-2013, 10:12 PM
That's an easy one. No.

Black_Moons
06-04-2013, 10:28 PM
Agreed, Throw out the blade, buy a new *BIMETAL* blade. No matter how cheap you are you won't reget it.
the diffrence is night and day, it turns a $300 bandsaw into 90% of what you would get outta a $1000+ saw. its all in the blade!

Shade
06-05-2013, 12:29 AM
It's the cheapo blade that comes with the saw, I must have cut the equivalent of 20 2x2" square pieces, through the course which it broke a tooth or two, and then eventually snapped. It will probably just snap again, quickly, is that correct?
1) I will be good welding practice.
2) Did it break at the weld or somewhere else.

if it broke at the weld you still might get a bunch of life out of it,
I would tig weld mine when I really needed it and I could not get
a new blade fast enough, make sure you use a good straight edge
to line up the back edge of the blade. I just keep 2-4 of each pitch
blade now on hand.

I started on a 4x6 Jet, ran through hundreds of dollars worth of
bands upgraded to a Jet 7x12 and had that awhile and ran through
thousands of dollars of bands, I was running my welding business
at the time, did a lot of cutting, then I purchased my Ellis 1600
bands started lasting A LOT longer!!! When you have a solid rigid
machine the band do not get stressed nearly as bad and last a lot
longer. Also with 1" wide bands you have a much greater selection
of types and pitches. But it is tough to justify a big saw unless you
saw a lot.


The blades that come with it barely cut better than a piece of package strapping. Get a good lenox diemaster or other name brand blade and dont look back.
Lenox are some of the best blades out I got to go to the Lenox
school back 10 or so years ago, Great school. I worked for a
Lenox distributor back then. Amada'a are very good also. They
clearly lead the industry.


Ha ha. Yeah, just weld up a piece of strapping and put it on. Try not to get it on backwards :)
Now that is just funny there...


it turns a $300 bandsaw into 90% of what you would get outta a $1000+ saw. its all in the blade!
You might be stretching it a bit there, pun intended.

Hey any of you ever see a blade tension meter?

Shade
06-05-2013, 02:14 AM
Here are the pictures of the Tension Meter from Lenox.

http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106464&d=1370412782

http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106465&d=1370412782

bosox
06-05-2013, 04:33 PM
Nope. It will break another tooth again. I got haltbar bandsaw blades. Bi metal blades are good ones.

Jpfalt
06-08-2013, 02:03 PM
if you can't take criticism, do the right thing.

The correct quote is, "If you can't dish it out, don't take it."

Elninio
06-08-2013, 05:01 PM
Just got the new blade. I was able to speed up the SFM from the lowest to the highest, whilst the motor no longer gets too hot to the touch, simultaneously increasing the mass on the end of the bandsaw by 2 bricks (the kind you build a house with)! Coolant seems to make it cut worse, I think that's because it permits a heavier downfeed, which is causing blade slippage - I'm afraid to tighten the belt even more, it might reduce its life. I'll have to try it when I have more money, but right now I'm saving up for a digital readout, so can't afford to have it break. What are the chances it will break?

Shade
06-08-2013, 05:13 PM
Just got the new blade. I was able to speed up the SFM from the lowest to the highest, whilst the motor no longer gets too hot to the touch, simultaneously increasing the mass on the end of the bandsaw by 2 bricks (the kind you build a house with)! Coolant seems to make it cut worse, I think that's because it permits a heavier downfeed, which is causing blade slippage - I'm afraid to tighten the belt even more, it might reduce its life. I'll have to try it when I have more money, but right now I'm saving up for a digital readout, so can't afford to have it break. What are the chances it will break?

Do not force the head down by adding weight, the spring should be adjust to 6-10 pounds force down or the max weight of the head.

Elninio
06-08-2013, 05:20 PM
Do not force the head down by adding weight, the spring should be adjust to 6-10 pounds force down or the max weight of the head.

It's almost necessary at this speed, the blade doesn't produce chips of the proper size otherwise. The spring on this machine reduces down-force when it's screw is tightened, so maximum force is when it is not in tension. What will happen if I keep doing this? These bandsaws have problems specific to their size factor, I'm sure larger machines can exceed this downward force needed to break the blade without additional weights.

Elninio
06-08-2013, 05:21 PM
Here are the pictures of the Tension Meter from Lenox.

http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106464&d=1370412782

http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106465&d=1370412782

Pics aren't displaying, url must point to the image itself (extension must be seen in the url).

Toolguy
06-08-2013, 05:38 PM
For best blade life you should back off the speed to where it will cut good without any bricks. Pushing it to the limits will make it dull soon or break.

beanbag
06-08-2013, 05:48 PM
I would think that bandsaw blades should be run at the same speed as hss end mills, i.e. material specific.

Elninio
06-08-2013, 06:04 PM
How do people use coolant with these saws? I squirted some by hand during the entire cut and it produced a paste of dust that clogged the top pulley, which runs on a bushing. This was when i was running at the lowest speed too, so chips were as thick as they would get. I was running with half a brick's weight then, placed where the pullet is.

Jess13
06-08-2013, 07:01 PM
You need to add a brush that the blade runs through so it will clear the chips off the blade before it reaches the pulley. These saws do not have enough grip at the pulley/drive wheel to handle coolant very well, but if you keep the pressure down and the chips cleared off the blade it can do well without it.

Now you may add pressure and coolant/oil and get it to cut faster but the amount of pressure it would take to get the blade to not slip would most likely shorten the blades life. The best bet is to buy a good quality blade that is designed for the cutting task. This will get the fastest performance and best blade life. If the right blade is used it will not need extra pressure to cut fast.

The hardest thing for the blade to deal with is heat and to much pressure on the blade. A air nozzle pointed at the blade after the cut can help keep heat down and remove chips from the teeth. Mounting a wire brush on a bearing for the blade to run through will remove any chips the air doesn't get. Plus with the blade temp keep down the chips don't try to stick to the blade as bad anyway (soft metals mainly).

When a blade breaks a tooth you can pretty much count that blade dead. It will try to hang at this missing tooth and pull the blade off the pulley. The right quality and type blade, small air nozzle, chip brush and adjustments will get it cutting faster and lasting the best one of these little saws can do. Anything beyond this and you will wear the wheels/pulley and or the worm drive out real fast. The worm drive is already bad for going out with normal use on some models. I would guess running at the highest speed really contributes to this wear even though some models may have better gear sets than others.


Jess

Elninio
06-09-2013, 04:13 AM
If the right blade is used it will not need extra pressure to cut fast...
Jess

There's a certain amount of pressure needed at minimum to cut properly, this bandsaw doesn't provide enough on large pieces (6" wide, even 8" cuts can be done on this bandsaw). Temperature isn't a problem with this new bimetal blade, but you could feel it on the older carbon steel one. The bearing housing would get hot too, after a few cuts, I opened it up and the oil was a thick sludge of brass. It was the first time being since the factory, and I suspect the worm didn't mesh perfectly with the gear (but now it does, after all that wear). I think temperature of the worm housing is an indicator of the quality of the oil; it's cool to the touch after a heavy cut, means the oil is not sludged up by fine brass particles.

It's nice to have some extra lubricity; I want to flood the blade to give it some lubricity, not to keep it cool (since this isn't a problem). I can imagine lubricity causing the belt to slip, but it has never been that bad, even when the motor was barely able to turn the old carbon steel blade. Does the 9x10 bandsaw use a wire brush to clean the blade? I will be introducing a drip coolant system, so there won't be enough flow for the fluid to wash the chips from the blade (so, the idea of a brush is my only option). Has anyone on this forum ever made a wire brush on a ball bearing wiper like you suggest?

edit; I found a kalamazoo bandsaw with the wire brush idea; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7fk8fttrY0

macona
06-09-2013, 04:19 AM
I use the wax stick cutting lube with my saw. No mess.

Elninio
06-09-2013, 04:33 AM
I use the wax stick cutting lube with my saw. No mess.

How often do you apply it? Will a regular candle do?

Shade
06-09-2013, 10:14 AM
Pics aren't displaying, url must point to the image itself (extension must be seen in the url).
Can anyone see the pictures? They display nicely for me...


How do people use coolant with these saws?
They don't the saw is not designed for it.


You need to add a brush that the blade runs through so it will clear the chips off the blade before it reaches the pulley.
Good point Jess, my old Jet 4x6 has a small chip brush on it. Also I have seen an air line rigged up with a needle valve to do the same.


There's a certain amount of pressure needed at minimum to cut properly, this bandsaw doesn't provide enough on large pieces (6" wide, even 8" cuts can be done on this bandsaw). Temperature isn't a problem with this new bimetal blade, but you could feel it on the older carbon steel one. The bearing housing would get hot too, after a few cuts, I opened it up and the oil was a thick sludge of brass. It was the first time being since the factory, and I suspect the worm didn't mesh perfectly with the gear (but now it does, after all that wear). I think temperature of the worm housing is an indicator of the quality of the oil; it's cool to the touch after a heavy cut, means the oil is not sludged up by fine brass particles.
Elninio, did you buy this saw new or used? If there was sludge and brass in the
gearbox after a few cut take it back to the dealer and have them replace it. If it
is used, possible someone used automotive gear oil in the worm gear which will
react with and damage brass and bronze worms.

Also when a saw is set up correctly with the right pitch blade it will cut what is in
the saw, adding weight will over load the blade and the saw and damage both.

When you are cutting material you ideally want 6-12 teeth in the cut at anytime,
never less than 3 teeth and never more than 24. So if you are cutting a 6 inch
solid you want a blade that had a pitch between 1-2 TPI, or at least has 4 TPI,
and your not going to find that in a half inch wide band.

So what I am saying is your little saw even it can hold a 6 inch solid it is not designed
to cut it.


How often do you apply it? Will a regular candle do?
No regular candle will not cut it, pun intended, these stick lubricants are formulated
for cutting metal. Castrol and Boelube are, in my opinion, very well made products
for cutting a variety of materials.

Elninio
06-10-2013, 01:26 AM
What kind of oil should go in the gearbox?

jnissen
06-10-2013, 11:25 AM
I use bees wax stick. Works great and only apply it at the start of a cut. If a large piece I may apply a little more as the cut goes on but very economical use of the lube.

As for gearbox lube - I just used standard 90 wt. gear oil and seems to be working fine. As long as the bearings and seals in the box are OK it should last 100's if not 1000's of hours of use.

Good write up on the gearbox here: http://www.mini-lathe.com/Bandsaw/Gearbox/4x6%20bandsaw.htm

jep24601
06-10-2013, 11:55 AM
Modern automotive gear oil is said to be corrosive to brass parts and bushings especially the synthetic oils.

bosox
06-11-2013, 02:59 PM
Owned saw with a wire chip brush and can be used either wet or dry cutting and horizontal/vertical cutting. 80 or 90 w gear oil on it, don't need a lot .

macona
06-11-2013, 06:58 PM
What kind of oil should go in the gearbox?

If it has a brass gear you want "Mineral" gear oil. 90 or 140wt

Jess13
06-11-2013, 11:10 PM
I would not of thought that 90wt gear oil would cause a problem for brass. The straight drive trans have brass parts in them. Though there may be some gear oils that will cause brass problems, there has to be some that is made for 4 & 5 speed trans. I honestly have never seen any that was not intended for such use, but it has been a very long time sense I have had the need to even know (so I have not looked). I will look into to this because there should be some type of code that will indicate its use.

I do remember some specialty gear oils for certain tranny types and this may have very well been the whole reason. I do remember these specialty lubes coming around when the syn type oils where coming to market. One such name for these type oils was something like "Syncromesh" . I do not remember if it was a brand name, or a type , or even if this name I am remembering is correct. I am sure there will be syn type gear lube that will work, and it sounds like one needs to read and check with the store when buying to make sure what is needed.

I do know I have seen many of these saws around for sale that the gear in the box was eat away and needed repaired/replaced. Knowing what we know from past experience with Asian products it may be possible they are being shipped with improper oil when new. It may be worth researching the oil types and doing a change on what oil the saw was shipped with. Knowing how easy it is to get these blades to pop off the wheels on these saws I am wandering if in fact the wrong oil is the reason for wearing out the gear, in stead of to much load.


Jess

Dave C
08-25-2015, 02:14 PM
GM parts counter sells gear oil specifically for positraction rear ends. It's formulated to not harm the clutch pack, so should be fine in your saw.

flylo
08-25-2015, 03:13 PM
You do know the post is over 2 years old, right?

Dave C
08-25-2015, 07:57 PM
You do know the post is over 2 years old, right?

Consider that I discovered the thread while searching for ideas about welding band saw blades in the home shop. The thread evolved into a discussion of what type oil the band saw gear box should use. I figured that if someone else does the same search, and has the same question, this was an opportunity to provide some relevant information. Especially since there has been much preaching on here, regarding the use of the search feature. I was not aware that the relevance of information is time and date dependent.

Mike Nash
08-25-2015, 08:30 PM
The hardest thing for the blade to deal with is heat and to much pressure on the blade.Jess

Not for me! The fastest way to kill blades I have found is trying to freehand thin plate on the little "table" you use for horizontal cuts, especially at weird kinky angles due to brackets or stuff. I get the same problem with a portaband too. :(


Okay, maybe that qualifies as "too much pressure", but in a twisty-kinky kind of way.